What do I need?

[joema2]

...
So the nMP is twice as fast as the Mini in terms of H264 exports (90% of what I do is h264), while the r-iMac is 6 times faster...What difference will it make the i7 4GHz against the i5 3.5? And the Radeon?

Your tests accurately reflect the difference for that workflow. Quick Sync (which Xeon doesn't have) makes a gigantic difference for single-pass MPEG-2 and H.264. For most web-destined material single-pass H.264 is fine -- I have examined multi-pass and can see little difference.

However if your workflow ever changes, you lose that speed advantage. E.g, say you start working collaboratively with others who need output files in ProRes 422.

The 4Ghz i7 vs 3.5Ghz i5 has two major differences:

(1) clock speed is 14% faster, which benefits most CPU-bound workloads, whether single-threaded or multi-threaded. Many common FCP X editing activities are CPU-bound, not disk-bound or GPU-bound. You can see that by monitoring with iStat Menus.

(2) The i7 has hyperthreading which benefits some multithreaded workloads but not all. E.g, it produces no improvement on Lightroom import, export or preview generation. However FCP export is further improved by about 30% over the exact same i7 with hyperthreading disabled. I have tested that myself.

In general I'd recommend the 4Ghz retina iMac with M295X. The disk can be either Fusion Drive or SSD -- it doesn't make much difference for typical H.264 editing tasks since they're not I/O-bound.

But -- with large amounts of HD or especially 4k you will probably eventually need external storage. Ideally that should be a RAID array, but there are many options at different price points. If it's inevitable you use a fast external HDD, you could consider the SSD iMac, since most of your video files and libraries will be on external storage anyway.

However don't use a 5400 rpm bus-powered USB 3 drive to edit from. In general they are too slow. You ideally want a USB 3 or Thunderbolt externally-powered HDD, preferably RAID 0 or RAID 5. You'll also need something to back that up on, whether your iMac is Fusion Drive or SSD.

 

[reco2011]

One thing to keep in mind: Macs tend to hold their value fairly well. If you go with the riMac and decide you want more sell it and buy the nMP.

 

[sigmadog]

If only it had some sort of pulsing deep red or blue internal lighting it would be even better.

Yeah, and a voice saying "Luke, I am your father..."

 

[dasx]

You're narrowing down your decision the right way. Using H264 and effects that don't take advantage of the MP, you are seeing the benefits of H264 on the i7 and not taxing the dual GPU of the MP. If that's good enough for you and you're not going to expand your workflow in the future, then you can save the money. Just read up on iMacs and heat, and screen smudges. It's a common enough problem with heavy use.

The i7 will give you a significant boost in clock speed for tasks that are primarily single threaded (there are still quite a few in the audiovisual world), and it gives you hyperthreading, virtually four additional cores for those tasks that are highly threaded. Go for it! As for the GPU, I have no clue about AMD mobile cards, but more is usually better, especially when you're restricting yourself to what is really a laptop GPU.

Yes, good enough for my workflow for sure. Specially after my tests.

hm... the r-iMac being more than twice as fast than the nMP doesn't make sense to me. maybe the core i5 supports intel Quick Sync and the Xeon doesn't? AFAIK the output quality of videos encoded using intel's Quick Sync aren't too great... might be a good idea to look into this before making the decision.

edit:
indeed, the E5 Xeons do not feature Quick Sync. possible explanation as of why the iMac was faster.
http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?s=t&MarketSegment=SRV&QuickSyncVideo=true

I am quite sure it's because of Quick Sync. So, unless your workflow always benefit from Quick Sync (e.g. no 2 pass encode etc.), you may have to think twice before you go for it.

Sigmadog and reco2011, yes, as discussed above the Quicksync really makes the H264 export fast. Right now all I do is single pass h264 export, so that the difference is very important.

Maybe I'll eventually need to make 2-pass compressions, or export to ProRes... but I'm positive that's not gonna be my main work and even then differences aren't so big, as you can see here. (And that's not even the Retina iMac).

So I think I've made the best choice for my current workflow. Maybe, MAYBE, in some time I would've benefited from the nMP, but spending around €1500 more (+ screen) in something I MIGHT need... specially when the difference isn't that big... I think I'll be OK.

I can still cancel my order so please let me know what you think!

----------

Your tests accurately reflect the difference for that workflow. Quick Sync (which Xeon doesn't have) makes a gigantic difference for single-pass MPEG-2 and H.264. For most web-destined material single-pass H.264 is fine -- I have examined multi-pass and can see little difference.

However if your workflow ever changes, you lose that speed advantage. E.g, say you start working collaboratively with others who need output files in ProRes 422.

The 4Ghz i7 vs 3.5Ghz i5 has two major differences:

(1) clock speed is 14% faster, which benefits most CPU-bound workloads, whether single-threaded or multi-threaded. Many common FCP X editing activities are CPU-bound, not disk-bound or GPU-bound. You can see that by monitoring with iStat Menus.

(2) The i7 has hyperthreading which benefits some multithreaded workloads but not all. E.g, it produces no improvement on Lightroom import, export or preview generation. However FCP export is further improved by about 30% over the exact same i7 with hyperthreading disabled. I have tested that myself.

In general I'd recommend the 4Ghz retina iMac with M295X. The disk can be either Fusion Drive or SSD -- it doesn't make much difference for typical H.264 editing tasks since they're not I/O-bound.

But -- with large amounts of HD or especially 4k you will probably eventually need external storage. Ideally that should be a RAID array, but there are many options at different price points. If it's inevitable you use a fast external HDD, you could consider the SSD iMac, since most of your video files and libraries will be on external storage anyway.

However don't use a 5400 rpm bus-powered USB 3 drive to edit from. In general they are too slow. You ideally want a USB 3 or Thunderbolt externally-powered HDD, preferably RAID 0 or RAID 5. You'll also need something to back that up on, whether your iMac is Fusion Drive or SSD.

Exactly my thoughts. Hadn't seen your post before posting my reply above. Thank you too joema2!

 

[reco2011]

Sigmadog and reco2011, yes, as discussed above the Quicksync really makes the H264 export fast. Right now all I do is single pass h264 export, so that the difference is very important.

Maybe I'll eventually need to make 2-pass compressions, or export to ProRes... but I'm positive that's not gonna be my main work and even then differences aren't so big, as you can see here. (And that's not even the Retina iMac).

So I think I've made the best choice for my current workflow. Maybe, MAYBE, in some time I would've benefited from the nMP, but spending around €1500 more (+ screen) in something I MIGHT need... specially when the difference isn't that big... I think I'll be OK.

I can still cancel my order so please let me know what you think!

My comment was related only to selling your new Mac if you decided it was not the right one for your needs. This is unfamiliar territory for me wrt performance and your needs so it's best I not make any comments to that effect.

 

[dasx]

My comment was related only to selling your new Mac if you decided it was not the right one for your needs. This is unfamiliar territory for me wrt performance and your needs so it's best I not make any comments to that effect.

I've done my research, I have even had the chance to try the nMP with what I usually do and right now... the iMac is a perfect fit. I might eventually need more power, but this iMac still compares damn good to the nMP in all other tasks, (at least in FCPX), so I expect no regrets for a minimum of 4 years.

 

[dasx]

Your tests accurately reflect the difference for that workflow. Quick Sync (which Xeon doesn't have) makes a gigantic difference for single-pass MPEG-2 and H.264. For most web-destined material single-pass H.264 is fine -- I have examined multi-pass and can see little difference.

However if your workflow ever changes, you lose that speed advantage. E.g, say you start working collaboratively with others who need output files in ProRes 422.

The 4Ghz i7 vs 3.5Ghz i5 has two major differences:

(1) clock speed is 14% faster, which benefits most CPU-bound workloads, whether single-threaded or multi-threaded. Many common FCP X editing activities are CPU-bound, not disk-bound or GPU-bound. You can see that by monitoring with iStat Menus.

(2) The i7 has hyperthreading which benefits some multithreaded workloads but not all. E.g, it produces no improvement on Lightroom import, export or preview generation. However FCP export is further improved by about 30% over the exact same i7 with hyperthreading disabled. I have tested that myself.

In general I'd recommend the 4Ghz retina iMac with M295X. The disk can be either Fusion Drive or SSD -- it doesn't make much difference for typical H.264 editing tasks since they're not I/O-bound.

But -- with large amounts of HD or especially 4k you will probably eventually need external storage. Ideally that should be a RAID array, but there are many options at different price points. If it's inevitable you use a fast external HDD, you could consider the SSD iMac, since most of your video files and libraries will be on external storage anyway.

However don't use a 5400 rpm bus-powered USB 3 drive to edit from. In general they are too slow. You ideally want a USB 3 or Thunderbolt externally-powered HDD, preferably RAID 0 or RAID 5. You'll also need something to back that up on, whether your iMac is Fusion Drive or SSD.

Had a chance to re-read your post. Wow man, thanks a lot. Seriously. Great post! I ended up with the exact same setup you suggested and the 256GB SSD.

As what HD to keep my media IN... currently all I have is a 7200rpm WD Blue into a USB 3.0 external bay... Until I can save money again to get a proper RAID5 enclosure.

 

[c1phr]

Problem is the nMP is around €1400 more expensive and doesn't have a screen, so add €500 more.

I know it looks like you already settled on the riMac (congrats!) but don't you already have a screen hooked up to your Mini that you could use with the nMP, mitigating that screen cost? Then buy a 4k display later down the road when you transition to that format.

 

[dasx]

I know it looks like you already settled on the riMac (congrats!) but don't you already have a screen hooked up to your Mini that you could use with the nMP, mitigating that screen cost? Then buy a 4k display later down the road when you transition to that format.

I do have a 2010 Apple LED Cinema Display, but I also have a Windows PC in my desktop for certain work-realted things I need Windows for. Right now I'm switching the ACD cable everytime I want to use the Windows machine, which is a pain in the ass. So with the RiMac I get that extra monitor I need.

Thanks for your input though!

 

[c1phr]

I do have a 2010 Apple LED Cinema Display, but I also have a Windows PC in my desktop for certain work-realted things I need Windows for. Right now I'm switching the ACD cable everytime I want to use the Windows machine, which is a pain in the ass. So with the RiMac I get that extra monitor I need.

Thanks for your input though!

Ah, that makes sense. Well, congratulations and enjoy that rMBP, it's a great machine!