What do you expect from the next Mac Mini?

[Josias]

Me wishing, yet trying to be slightly realistic:

$599:
1.83 GHz Core Duo (32-bit), but 4 MB L2 cache
1 GB RAM (same specs as now, but available up to 4 GB)
3.5" HDD (7.200 rpm.) Starting at 120, also available 160 and 200.
8x DVD+/-RW/DL SuperDrive (same as now)
Ati X1400 128 MB DDR2 (Duallink DVI)
AirPort X2 and Bluetooth (3.0 )
Same dimesnsions.
Frontrow 2.0 and iLife '07

$799:
2.0 GHz Core Duo (32-bit), but 4 MB L2 cache
1 GB RAM (same specs as now, but available up to 4 GB)
3.5" HDD (7.200 rpm.) Starting at 160, also available 200.
8x DVD+/-RW/DL SuperDrive (same as now, but optional HD/Blu-ray reader)
Ati X1400 128 MB DDR2 (Duallink DVI)
AirPort X2 and Bluetooth (3.0 )
Same dimesnsions.
Frontrow 2.0 and iLife '07

Please APPLE!

 

[milo]

LOL LOL ok forget any memron as they are starting at 1.83 so i guess the budjet chip is out the window. I forgot when Intel lanches it the yohan will stay the same price and the memron will just be another price bracket above that. I also forgot with 120 and 160 GB notebook drives due to be the norm for Q1 2007 with the new promised recording techs that a 160 GB drive in budjet laptops will make them what no longer budjet i guess. These are low end and mid range parts. The Macbook pro will be out with a 200 GB hard drive(by intels specs your supposted to have two in the guild line spec for 5 hours battery life) and 2.33 or greater memron. And i did the the CPUs can go up and down, so the low end could have a Yohan 1.83 and the mid have a memron 1.83 and the high end have a memron 2.0. Depends what AMD dose as well the Turon X2 mite be a real killer like the Athlon X2 is. If your so used to a .6 MHz speed bump so be it, but your with Intel now and possibly AMD nothings stopping that so if apple says the next power mac is a Conroe Intel 3.33 GHz then in 6 months you will get a quad core 3.8 Ghz or simaler and so on it moves a lot faster when you have compatition. AMD vs Intel is good for us it meens things like the specs i was on about are possible.

Today's high end part is tomorrow's low end part. But it takes time for that to happen, you're completely unrealistic about how quickly prices will drop. Some of the parts listed aren't even shipping yet, they will just be starting to ship by the time minis are updated and very expensive.

As I said before, there will likely be minis with these specs in the future, but they will be in 3-4 generations from now, not in the next mini update later this year.

Personally, I think Apple is more likely to drop prices as newer chips ship and prices drop than to bump chip speeds in the mini. Most likely we'll be seeing a bump to the duo core in the base model and slightly faster in the higher one. Best case in the shorter term is 1.6 duo for $499 with a couple other specs bumps. And I'd be happy to see that, the goal of the cheapest mini should be a dual core chip and the lowest possible price. They can offer better specs on more expensive models.

 

[miloblithe]

Me wishing, yet trying to be slightly realistic:

$599:
1.83 GHz Core Duo (32-bit), but 4 MB L2 cache
1 GB RAM (same specs as now, but available up to 4 GB)
3.5" HDD (7.200 rpm.) Starting at 120, also available 160 and 200.
8x DVD+/-RW/DL SuperDrive (same as now)
Ati X1400 128 MB DDR2 (Duallink DVI)
AirPort X2 and Bluetooth (3.0 )
Same dimesnsions.
Frontrow 2.0 and iLife '07

$799:
2.0 GHz Core Duo (32-bit), but 4 MB L2 cache
1 GB RAM (same specs as now, but available up to 4 GB)
3.5" HDD (7.200 rpm.) Starting at 160, also available 200.
8x DVD+/-RW/DL SuperDrive (same as now, but optional HD/Blu-ray reader)
Ati X1400 128 MB DDR2 (Duallink DVI)
AirPort X2 and Bluetooth (3.0 )
Same dimesnsions.
Frontrow 2.0 and iLife '07

Please APPLE!

So you're saying Apple won't update the mini until January '07?

 

[Cabbit]

Today's high end part is tomorrow's low end part. But it takes time for that to happen, you're completely unrealistic about how quickly prices will drop. Some of the parts listed aren't even shipping yet, they will just be starting to ship by the time minis are updated and very expensive.

As I said before, there will likely be minis with these specs in the future, but they will be in 3-4 generations from now, not in the next mini update later this year.

Personally, I think Apple is more likely to drop prices as newer chips ship and prices drop than to bump chip speeds in the mini. Most likely we'll be seeing a bump to the duo core in the base model and slightly faster in the higher one. Best case in the shorter term is 1.6 duo for $499 with a couple other specs bumps. And I'd be happy to see that, the goal of the cheapest mini should be a dual core chip and the lowest possible price. They can offer better specs on more expensive models.

you said rev b mac mini not speed bumped mac mini. and they do need to bring back the $499 model the original goal i remember at first lanch of the G4 mac mini was to have a mac under $500 that everyone could afford now all they have done is removed the low end model and replaced the mid and high end models only not kool. And tell me were are they going to get ample supplys of 32 bit core duos for mac minis 3-5 months after its launch they would need to upgrade it again two months later to 64 bit memrons or run out of chips and i achually think apple are going to be pushing 64bit, dual core, and 3D games support with 10.5 so a desent spec mini is on the cards mabey with a conroe instead of a memron, the iMac will be getting a conroe. The mini would be able to handle a conroe's heat and power the lower end ones are not much more than a core duos rateing so theres your cheep chip a 2.66 or 2.8 conroe in the mini would work and no it wouldnt melt it, i suspect the iMac will get a simaler chip proberly a 2.2 and a 2.33XE option. Theres more than the core duo, theres more than Intel. OS X can run on AMD apple arnt locked in for all you know you could be getting a Turion X2.

 

[dr_lha]

Me wishing, yet trying to be slightly realistic:

Still highly unrealistic!

AirPort X2 and Bluetooth (3.0 )

What would this "Airport X2" of which you speak be? If its a "N" based WiFi card, then I believe that the Airport card in the current Intel Mac is fully capable of "N" speeds, all it needs is a firmware update.

 

[milo]

you said rev b mac mini not speed bumped mac mini.

We're talking about two different things here, upgrading the specs and upgrading the case. I think with the intel machines we'll see significant speed bumps fairly often that will include other spec bumps. "Rev B" could happen at any time, it could be six months or could be three years. The specs you list likely won't be seen in a mini until late 2007.

And tell me were are they going to get ample supplys of 32 bit core duos for mac minis 3-5 months after its launch they would need to upgrade it again two months later to 64 bit memrons or run out of chips and i achually think apple are going to be pushing 64bit, dual core, and 3D games support with 10.5 so a desent spec mini is on the cards mabey with a conroe instead of a memron, the iMac will be getting a conroe. The mini would be able to handle a conroe's heat and power the lower end ones are not much more than a core duos rateing so theres your cheep chip a 2.66 or 2.8 conroe in the mini would work and no it wouldnt melt it, i suspect the iMac will get a simaler chip proberly a 2.2 and a 2.33XE option. Theres more than the core duo, theres more than Intel. OS X can run on AMD apple arnt locked in for all you know you could be getting a Turion X2.

They will have no problem getting core duos for a long time, when the newer chips ship it will just bring down duo prices, which is perfect for the mini. Intel will likely manufacture the duos for at least a year. They don't have to go 64 bit, it won't be that much of a boost in performance, and in the base mini price is a much higher priority than performance. I doubt the mini or the imac will see a conroe, at least not until there's a generation beyond that the towers can use. What makes you think that conroe will be cheap? It's going to be intel's high end chip when it ships.

Sure, there's more than core duo. But everything else will be more expensive, and the base mini is apple's budget machine. Unless you think the Rev B mini is three years away?

Cheaper machines get cheaper components. Look at the PC side, are there $499 computers that have the high end cpu's?

 

[gekko513]

Here's what I think will happen on the next revision. The bottom model will be largely unchanged but get a price reduction. The biggest change will be an option with ATI graphics. On the upside, I think it will happen this year.

$499
1.5 GHz Intel Core Solo
Intel GMA950
512MB memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Combo Drive

$699
1.67 GHz Intel Core Duo
Intel GMA950
512MB memory
100GB Serial ATA hard drive
SuperDrive

$799
1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
ATi X1300 128MB dedicated
512MB memory
120GB Serial ATA hard drive
Superdrive

 

[Josh396]

Here's what I think will happen on the next revision. The bottom model will be largely unchanged but get a price reduction. The biggest change will be an option with ATI graphics. On the upside, I think it will happen this year.

Those are about what I expect. I'm still hoping they switch over to a 3.5" HD but I'm sure they would have done that when they moved over to Intel processors.

 

[Cabbit]

We're talking about two different things here, upgrading the specs and upgrading the case. I think with the intel machines we'll see significant speed bumps fairly often that will include other spec bumps. "Rev B" could happen at any time, it could be six months or could be three years. The specs you list likely won't be seen in a mini until late 2007.



They will have no problem getting core duos for a long time, when the newer chips ship it will just bring down duo prices, which is perfect for the mini. Intel will likely manufacture the duos for at least a year. They don't have to go 64 bit, it won't be that much of a boost in performance, and in the base mini price is a much higher priority than performance. I doubt the mini or the imac will see a conroe, at least not until there's a generation beyond that the towers can use. What makes you think that conroe will be cheap? It's going to be intel's high end chip when it ships.

Sure, there's more than core duo. But everything else will be more expensive, and the base mini is apple's budget machine. Unless you think the Rev B mini is three years away?

Cheaper machines get cheaper components. Look at the PC side, are there $499 computers that have the high end cpu's?

When you ask what makes me think the conroe will be cheep well for a start, all dell desktops will ship with a conroe unless there the low celerons. Conroe will go from 2.13 all the way to 2.33XE to start, the low end chip being the replacement and equivelent price to a Athlon 3000+ or Pentium 3 GHz, arround about the $150-$180 mark, much lower than any laptop chip. Conore will be much better suted to the iMac than the core duo, the core duo is a expencive laptop part, the iMac case could handle a G5 it can handle any conroe even the XE. MacPros will have higher speed Conroe if they have them at all they mite get the xeon replacement for dual chip configurations. right now the iMac 2.0 is about equal to a powermac dual 2GHz but that dosnt mater because someone is going to buy a iMac because its a iMac and someone is going to buy a Powermac because its a Powermac. You dont have to artafitially hold back the iMac to protect the powermac the iMac is going to sell more but has to be competative. you cant have dell desktops with 2.12 GHz conroe's and the iMac with a 2 GHz core duo it would get its ass kicked and be more expencive to manufator. The iMac is core duo right now because apple dont like netburst, when conroe comes out you will see that in the iMac, the ibook,powerbook and mini will get memron and the macpro will get Xeon something or if were lucky opterons that scale much better than xeons. and the core solo is not a high end cpu, yohan is not going to remain a highend cpu its the next celeron m, conroe is a hole family with low and high end parts and one ultra high end part.

 

[QCassidy352]

Here's what I think will happen on the next revision. The bottom model will be largely unchanged but get a price reduction. The biggest change will be an option with ATI graphics. On the upside, I think it will happen this year.

$499
1.5 GHz Intel Core Solo
Intel GMA950
512MB memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Combo Drive

$699
1.67 GHz Intel Core Duo
Intel GMA950
512MB memory
100GB Serial ATA hard drive
SuperDrive

$799
1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
ATi X1300 128MB dedicated
512MB memory
120GB Serial ATA hard drive
Superdrive

That's the first realistic prediction I've seen. Josias' specs seem possible, but pretty optimistic. babyjennifer's specs are so unrealistic I don't even know what to say. 2 GB RAM, a core duo 2.33 Ghz, and a 256 MB x1700 for $799? Maybe in 2008.

 

[jeremy.king]

Whatever the next Mini revision, I expect a bunch of whiny b*tches to complain about some shortcoming or another. Its a fracking low end machine, for pete's sake! Bring back the Performa!!!

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing one slot of some sort, say PCI-E or something...

 

[milo]

Conroe will go from 2.13 all the way to 2.33XE to start, the low end chip being the replacement and equivelent price to a Athlon 3000+ or Pentium 3 GHz, arround about the $150-$180 mark, much lower than any laptop chip.

What's your source on this? Link?

Maybe in 2008.

That's the only explanation I can think of.

 

[Cabbit]

Conroe Extreme Edition (XE): 3.33 / unknown / unknown L2 cache
E6800: 2.80 GHz / FSB 1066/ 4 MB shared L2 cache
E6700: 2.66 GHz / FSB 1066/ 4 MB shared L2 cache
E6600: 2.40 GHz / FSB 1066/ 4 MB shared L2 cache
E6400: 2.13 GHz / FSB 1066/ 2 MB shared L2 cache
E6300: 1.86 GHz / FSB 1066/ 2 MB shared L2 cache
E4200: 1.60 GHz / FSB 800/ 2 MB shared L2 cache

this is form intel so far for conroe, these will be replaceing the pentium 4 2.66 to 3.8 and the pentium D line. there priceing will be simaler. and a lot cheeper than core duo witch if you check anyware is a lot more expencive than any AMD or Intel desktop chip. Now the 1.60 is about the same preformance as a AMD 3200+ so will come in arround $130. And thats going by the benchmarks of the 2.66 that is set to be a mid range part arround the $250-$300 mark. If you do a little hunting on pc forms xbitlabs.com mite be a good place to start you would allready know this. Conroe's are expected to have a TDP of 60w and the XE 90w and about equal heat disribution to the yohan but nothing compared to the memron but will still fit in nicely price/preformace with the mac mini and the imac. the E4200 would be great in low end mini's and the E6300 in the high end mini's check the price of a pentium 3 GHz vs a core duo 1.67 there will be quite a lot in faver of the pentium and conroe will be no diffrent. remember the E6400 and down have to fit into a Dell dimention for $450. E6800 just screams out iMac and the XE will proberly fit the iMac or lower end powermacs.

Note: the E4200 and E6300 are new to the road map, replaceing the Pentium 4 2.66 and 2.8 in there respective price range. the Pentium 2.66 is not much more than a mid Celeron D

Usefull info: Pentium 4 2.66e, LGA 775, no emt64t, half cache, 533buss

Edit: Conroes will post a thermal design power (TDP) of 65 watts

Another edit: Intel Core E4200, Intel Core E6200, ect

 

[milo]

this is form intel so far for conroe, these will be replaceing the pentium 4 2.66 to 3.8 and the pentium D line. there priceing will be simaler. and a lot cheeper than core duo witch if you check anyware is a lot more expencive than any AMD or Intel desktop chip.

So this means you just made an assumption on pricing instead of getting numbers from a source somewhere?

If you found an intel roadmap with conroe pricing on it, please provide a link.

 

[Cabbit]

So this means you just made an assumption on pricing instead of getting numbers from a source somewhere?

If you found an intel roadmap with conroe pricing on it, please provide a link.

i dont have priceing, but with the pentium 4 going to be gone and AMD still here intel still have to compeat. So conroe will as allways take on its fathers priceing model.

 

[milo]

i dont have priceing, but with the pentium 4 going to be gone and AMD still here intel still have to compeat. So conroe will as allways take on its fathers priceing model.

Thanks for the confirmation that the prices you provided were made up and have no facts to back them up.

 

[generik]

$799
1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
ATi X1300 128MB dedicated
512MB memory
120GB Serial ATA hard drive
Superdrive

I have to say this would be the "perfect" Mac Mini, while IIG is not all that bad it really stinks in games, not that I even own a single Mac game

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I agree with gekko513, but I want to see the integrated video ditched in favor of a real embedded GPU. Geting back to that $499 price point would be nice too.

 

[milo]

I agree with gekko513, but I want to see the integrated video ditched in favor of a real embedded GPU. Geting back to that $499 price point would be nice too.

Having used a mini duo, going to 1 gig or more of ram makes a vastly bigger difference in performance than upgrading the GPU would.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Yes, but you can upgrade the RAM. The GPU is embedded or integrated, which means you're stuck with it permanently. And some apps, especially games, need a certain class of GPU or better for decent performance.

I like every aspect of the new Mini except for the integrated GMA950 graphics. It is not a fatal flaw but I hope that the next revision gets something from nVidia or ATI, at least as a BTO option.

 

[dr_lha]

Yes, but you can upgrade the RAM. The GPU is embedded or integrated, which means you're stuck with it permanently. And some apps, especially games, need a certain class of GPU or better for decent performance.

I like every aspect of the new Mini except for the integrated GMA950 graphics. It is not a fatal flaw but I hope that the next revision gets something from nVidia or ATI, at least as a BTO option.

Being as the graphics are "integrated" it would a bit difficult to make the graphics card a BTO option. You'd have to completely redesign the mini motherboard to take a graphics chip/card.

That said, the whole Integrated graphics problem is over hyped. I'm extremely pleased with the graphics performance of my Mini. On a 1680x1050 screen running regular apps the card only takes 19Mb of the main memory. The Coreimage effects like the famous "ripple" are smoother than on my Dual G5, and even running under Rosetta, Google Earth is smoother and faster than running on either my PB or the wife's iBook (which has a better GFX card than the original Mini.

I'm not being an apologist here, but I was geniunely surprised as to how well my Mini performs, given its a "low-end" machine.

 

[Cabbit]

I'm not being an apologist here, but I was geniunely surprised as to how well my Mini performs, given its a "low-end" machine.

sorry to just consentrate on this bit but the mac mini is a low mid range machine, its priced as a mid range machine, it has no screen, keyboard or mouse ether so if you add that its $650 but even if you dont its still mid range price and apart form the GPU it has lower midrange to midrange specs like the processor that is more expencive than most pentium's and even more expencive than lower end Pentium D's and has equal preformance to about a 2.8 GHz pentium 4, or the duo is about the same as a Pentium D 2.8. Low end would be celeron D and at least $200 less expencive, if you think about it minis the core solo on the low end replaceing it with a celeron M apple could make a $300 cheeper model going by (http://www.pluscorp.com.au/ContentMaster.asp?CategoryID=53) core duos are very expencive apple could have lowerd the price by $300 on the core duo model by using a celron M that would be a low end mac. Also note that core duos are far more expencive than pentium 4's because they are moble chips, Conroes will be more inline with pentium 4's.

 

[Cabbit]

a core duo 2.16 is $1000, the Intel Core E6700(2.66) is a mid range part that wipes the floor of the Athlon FX 60 oc to 3GHz and is expected to be $300 in 1000 unit quantitys form most sources there are to many to link, just think of this as the chip you would buy in the fututure when now you would buy a Pentium D 3.0 or athlon X2 4200+ arround about that level of price and market target for the middle chip. The E6700 has a TMP of 65w and would fit the iMac much better than a core duo because core duos are expencive. Some sore of celeron and the E4000's would fit the mini they are ment to be lower heat because of the cripple cache.

 

[miniConvert]

sorry to just consentrate on this bit but the mac mini is a low mid range machine, its priced as a mid range machine, it has no screen, keyboard or mouse ether so if you add that its $650 but even if you dont its still mid range price and apart form the GPU it has lower midrange to midrange specs like the processor that is more expencive than most pentium's and even more expencive than lower end Pentium D's and has equal preformance to about a 2.8 GHz pentium 4, or the duo is about the same as a Pentium D 2.8. Low end would be celeron D and at least $200 less expencive, if you think about it minis the core solo on the low end replaceing it with a celeron M apple could make a $300 cheeper model going by (http://www.pluscorp.com.au/ContentMaster.asp?CategoryID=53) core duos are very expencive apple could have lowerd the price by $300 on the core duo model by using a celron M that would be a low end mac. Also note that core duos are far more expencive than pentium 4's because they are moble chips, Conroes will be more inline with pentium 4's.

A Celery? In a Mac? Are you out of your mind! Yes, the Mac mini isn't exactly bargain basement, but I assume that's because Apple want to sell products that actually perform excellently. So, then, as it's all relative, the Mac mini is 'the' low-end Mac, saving us all from the filth at the bottom end of Windows PC's.

 

[generik]

But can the next desktop chip fit into a mac mini form factor?

A 100W chip will surely melt the whole thing