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What happened--Apple's bastard child?

Apple TV used for On Demand

Since I use a Tivo I cannot receive on demand content from my cable provider. I use my Apple TV as an on demnad type of unit. When I want to rent a movie i do. That's really all I use it for. I cannot see any other reason to have it. Like someone else said I like to have the media. It could be nice to stream movies you have ripped if you use handbrake or something.
 
I'm with those who think ATV will see an update this year. I think there will be new hardware and a software update for older boxes. I use the ATV for music, videos and movies. I already love what it does and in my opinion doesn't need much but has a lot more potential! Like others, I use it for background music when I have family and friends over and they all love the slideshow of pictures. They all ask how I did that and I just point to the ATV and tell them they can go get one too.

I'd like to see more interaction with the iPhone remote app. I would hope they would include a faster processor and the updated software would improve some of the response time issues for the older boxes. Hopefully with a faster processor new boxes would handle 1080p. The dream feature for me and least likely to happen would be a Bluray drive built in. lol I can dream, right? Right now I use the PS3 for Bluray and as a result don't watch many Blurays. I just hate the interface (I also have a hardware limitation in my receiver not having HDMI ports and limited to 2 optical ports)

So count me as one hoping for an ATV update this fall. The wife is prepped to move the old one to the bedroom TV and put the new one on the main TV. If I knew for sure they weren't going to update it, I'd go buy another one today for the bedroom.
 
I hope they update it at the iPod event later this year, too. 1080p, native support for USB storage, and an app store would all be nice inclusions.
 
almostinsane said:
Hulu doesn't want its app to be used with your TV, its strictly for supplemental viewing on your laptop and PC. Since the Apple 'TV'! is for your TV, good luck in ever seeing it on there.
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But he said "LIKE Hulu". Do Hulu have a monopoly on this type of service? If it's possible to provide the service for equipment LIKE the Apple TV, what's to stop someone else from doing it instead of Hulu? It probably would have to be someone different for us anyway, as we can't get Hulu in the UK.
 
such a shame

Apple really dropped the ball with the AppleTV. The problem is, an update will do us fine but for those who either never bought one or who got rid of theirs, an update won't do much. It seems like its a product stuck in space with nowhere to go. Apple has no idea what it wants it to be - other than an iTunes Store for your TV.

In order for Apple to make the "living room" relevant, they need to go back to square one and figure out what people are using their AppleTV for and what Apple wants it to do. We know they want iTunes to be relevant but for pretty much every AppleTV user, they already are using iTunes in another place. I'm not saying iTunes doesn't belong on the device - it does, and my wife and I use it a lot - however, it shouldn't be the focal point (which is what it is now). On every other device Apple has - Mac, iPhone, iPod - iTunes is an extension of the device, it doesn't make the device. The team needs to go back and open the thing up to truly be a living room experience. That's one thing the 360/PS3 does well because they also allow you to use physical media. I can turn on my 360 and either rent a movie there or watch a DVD. I guess the 360 lacks the buy digital download feature that the AppleTV has, however, I think the general public feels more comfortable knowing that DVD they bought will work pretty much however or whenever they want it to.

Hopefully, they come up with something. Right now my setup does me fine but in 3-5 years, something else will come along and whatever it is, it is being designed at this very moment.
 
TRAG said:
If it had more apps like Comedy Central, Hulu, CNet, Netflix, The Colbert Repoer etc (basically everything that Plex can do) I'd be all over one. And the ability to play VIDEO_TS files.
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Here's the problem. None of the "providers" you listed signed up to be in Plex or Boxee. The developers of both hacked their web streams to include them in their program.

Obviously, Apple can't do that. Specifically, Hulu has said their goal is not to be on TV. The TV networks that own Hulu don't want a Hulu set-top box.

The ripping DVD suggestion will never happen either. The MPAA is currently in a huge legal battle with Real over RealDVD, which ripped DVDs and placed copy protection on those rips (unlike something like Mac the Ripper, Handbrake, etc). They don't even want consumers to have the ability to rip DVDs as they believe it violates the DMCA.

You can see the challenge Apple has to define the Apple TV. Providers don't want Apple to control the video market like they control music.

At this point, the only realistic things mentioned Apple could add to Apple TV would be software improvements including an App Store and 1080p support.
 
jaw04005 said:
Specifically, Hulu has said their goal is not to be on TV. The TV networks that own Hulu don't want a Hulu set-top box.
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Specifically the content owners. Their mindset is (and probably will remain that way for the foreseeable future) is "If they are watching it on TV for free, they should be doing it on network TV and watching it with normal commercials!" Rupert Murdock (Fox head and major partner in Hulu) hates giving things away on TV for free. These guys make far more money selling their content on TV networks that are subsidized by lots of commercials then they do so on Hulu - which only shows stiff after its initial airing.

NBC and FOX do not want Hulu to compete with their own networks and givew an advantage to a model that shows only 1/4 of the commercials. They want as many eyeballs on their stations as possible.
 
Add me to the list of those who desperately want an ATV update. I to am hoping for the September iPod event to be the time and place. There are so many possibilities. The ATV may be dead in its current form, but I think we'll see the product continue to evolve for years to come.
 
What is needed for Apple TV to be Competative!

1. Compete with Netflix... Video-on-demand for a monthly fee. (People want it.)
2. Compete with Hulu... Video-on-demand but do it cheaper for the networks.
3. Allow users to use their content in any format any where on their network without iTunes running. (Solution Quicktime X + Software)
4. Make Apple TV organization visual and fast with a touch / slick interface.
5. Give users the ability to buy video 1080p directly on apple TV to have the highest quality possible with equal features to Blu-Ray (subtitles, menus, extras, etc.)
6. Provide Network / Internet Storage Options to the Customer. (Why did they buy that storage facility in North Carolina?) Most people won't know how to setup a NAS. Help a brother out. "They keep on saying backup my stuff up... I'm running out of room on my laptop."
7. Two processors to utilize new technologies just in case it becomes legal to backup your DVDs via an external USB DVD drive with automated software.
8. Blu-ray program. Send us your Blu-ray discs and we will give you a discount on a digital version.
9. 1080p compatibility on iPods... one format.
 
anubis said:
I bought my AppleTV about a year and a half ago and recently sold it. I decided I couldn't live with its limitations any longer and Apple doesn't seem to have any desire to actually improve the device.

I bought a used 3.4GHz Pentium 4 HT microATX desktop computer and upgraded it with 2 gigs of RAM, ATI Radeon 2400HD video card, Soundblaster Audigy 7.1 surround sound card, and full wireless keyboard with built-in trackball. It came with a 400GB hard drive and dual layer DVD burner. Total cost: $200. Less than the price of an AppleTV.

The difference in user experience is incredible. Boxee on AppleTV was unbearably slow, almost to the point of being unwatchable. Boxee on my HTPC is an absolte thrill. I've had zero problems getting Boxee to play with the video and sound cards. I installed a 1TB internal hard drive and copied all of my video files to it, clearing lots of valueable space on my iMac. I can easily run iTunes to stream music files and download and rent movies from the iTunes store. And since it has a full web browser, I can access things like ABC's online HD programming as well as HULU's HD library. I can also access full netflix. I can play DVDs in the DVD drive without having to rip them. 1080p support. All of this without having to do any hacking, patchsticks, or anything else like that.

Selling my AppleTV and replacing it with an HTPC was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and it has substantially improved my home theater experience. AppleTV's main limitations are lack of full web browser and unbearably slow speed. Unfortunately, it does not appear that Apple is interested in breathing life into a fading platform :(
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Because I'm always curious, can I get more details on exactly which parts you bought? I'm on the fence about going this route and selling off my appleTVs as well. Do you have a problem with noise? That's my big hold up right now, I don't want fan noise while watching.
 
soLoredd said:
Apple really dropped the ball with the AppleTV.
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For me, I'd say yes and no. AppleTV is an easy way to get my content up on the TV. That works for me. Of course, as with ALL of their products, they always do things that make their products less attractive. Price point is too high for what you get, but cheaper than the way overpriced Mini. They tether it to iTunes (no need to say more). Limited playback support (at the very least should support avi). Purposely gimping the hardware causing lower resolutions and frame rates. It's that way of thinking that hinders all of Apple's products.
 
The problem that Apple faces is that they're simply not going to satisfy every video lover. You have the people that want Hulu (though the companies behind Hulu want to control how their content is displayed) and you have Netflix and then of course the people that want Apple to playback every codec known to mankind.

Apple's thrust needs to lead with their crown jewels the iPhone and iPod Touch and that's what they appear to be doing with Snow Leopard and it's export options.

I expect that we'll have digital outputs so that you can purchase a movie on iTunes and send it to your iPhone or iPod Touch and take it anywhere you want to watch it. The digital out will let you output 720p HD video using a mddi to HDMI connector cable.

Then Apple brow beats the MPAA and Hollywood to lower their damn pricing on movies from the current ridiculous to something more palatable to people who are bringing their own bandwidth and storage.
 
I love my apple tv, it does evrything I need it to. It allows me to play all of my content I have on my computer on either of my two tv's. I do agree they need to support 1080P, for me it means nothing but some users want the best quality. I have hacked it in the past to play other formats but I would rather spend the time transcoding than have a horrible interface for viewing, and have different shows in different places. Hulu's low quality would keep me from ever using their service. I think the main issue that divides people that love their apple tv's and people who want more functionality is "what are you using for you main tv viewership". If you use cable, satalite, blueray, ect for your primary means of enternaiment then the apple tv does not offer any compelling features, but for someone like me who relies soley on the apple tv its fantastic. I can subscribe to any show I would like to watch, import any content I get from elswhere( ie. DVD rips and other legal content), and my wife can operate it without thinking. And all of this is still cheaper than cable. All I want is a clock on the main screen?
 
TheCheapGeek said:
I love my apple tv, it does evrything I need it to. It allows me to play all of my content I have on my computer on either of my two tv's. I do agree they need to support 1080P, for me it means nothing but some users want the best quality. I have hacked it in the past to play other formats but I would rather spend the time transcoding than have a horrible interface for viewing, and have different shows in different places. Hulu's low quality would keep me from ever using their service. I think the main issue that divides people that love their apple tv's and people who want more functionality is "what are you using for you main tv viewership". If you use cable, satalite, blueray, ect for your primary means of enternaiment then the apple tv does not offer any compelling features, but for someone like me who relies soley on the apple tv its fantastic. I can subscribe to any show I would like to watch, import any content I get from elswhere( ie. DVD rips and other legal content), and my wife can operate it without thinking. And all of this is still cheaper than cable. All I want is a clock on the main screen?
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I agree with what your saying but Apple needs to out do Boxee. People want all of their media at the ready and what Apple and Netflix have to offer. Boxee does not have a media store and Apple TV does not have interface for unlimited content. They are going to meet in the middle. Someone is going to offer Boxee a deal to be able to purchase content in Boxee. Netflix's long term solution will be the same. Netflix may partner with Amazon. The wheels are in motion. Physical media will die; how long that takes will be up to the people and the media companies. Stop buying into Blu-Ray if you want digital distribution to surge ahead; it's an fruitless venture for the consumer who will in the end be stuck with useless media.
 
magikgeek said:
I agree with what your saying but Apple needs to out do Boxee. People want all of their media at the ready and what Apple and Netflix have to offer. Boxee does not have a media store and Apple TV does not have interface for unlimited content. They are going to meet in the middle. Someone is going to offer Boxee a deal to be able to purchase content in Boxee. Netflix's long term solution will be the same. Netflix may partner with Amazon. The wheels are in motion. Physical media will die; how long that takes will be up to the people and the media companies. Stop buying into Blu-Ray if you want digital distribution to surge ahead; it's an fruitless venture for the consumer who will in the end be stuck with useless media.
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I disagree.

TV junkies like Boxee but Boxee's design is anti-thetical to Apple's design. Note that Apple is known for their minimalism not "hey let's through every port on a computer and support everything in software"

People looking for a Boxee like interface would be better suited to get a Mac mini for their setups.
 
nuckinfutz said:
I disagree.

TV junkies like Boxee but Boxee's design is anti-thetical to Apple's design. Note that Apple is known for their minimalism not "hey let's through every port on a computer and support everything in software"

People looking for a Boxee like interface would be better suited to get a Mac mini for their setups.
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I agree, I can install boxee if I want but I choose not to because its a feature overload.
 
I own a different video box that has been nothing but problems and i figured out why. They tried to be everything to everyone and they did nothing good. By apple limiting what codecs it uses, it has less issues. I must have tried 10 different formats before one worked on my box. Believe it or not the one that worked was handbrake using an appletv format.

Anthony
 
Reading all of these ideas gets me excited about what the ATV could be. I really hope Apple doesn't drop the ball. I don't think they will, but still.
 
In terms of renting, I think the ATV works perfectly as it is - all the stuff needed (more choice, option of subscriptions) is probably down to the studios. I'm not even that fussed about the lack of codec support - H264 is pretty much the best anyway, but at least make the new unit powerful enough to use all the features (high profile). It's easy enough to use Handbrake to convert other videos and people moaning about MKV files probably pirated them anyway. I don't think these features need changing and they won't change.

The storage and distribution needs to to change and I think it will like buying content from an ipod/iphone has evolved.
 
nuckinfutz said:
I disagree.

TV junkies like Boxee but Boxee's design is anti-thetical to Apple's design. Note that Apple is known for their minimalism not "hey let's through every port on a computer and support everything in software"

People looking for a Boxee like interface would be better suited to get a Mac mini for their setups.
Click to expand...

What I was trying to say is that Apple has one piece of the pie and not very well. "Direct sales" and "Rentals". Boxee has an open interface and has "internet content" by the horns. You are correct they are at odds.

However, Boxee has more content and a bigger following. How will Apple get both direct sales and a bigger following? Answer: More content through internet Apps and subscription based services designed to compete with Netflix. Will this include Hulu? no. Could Apple try to compete with Hulu? yes.

For $20 under Apple's current model, it only gets you 5-6 movie rentals with no waiting. With Block Buster or Amazon we get 12 or more for the same price and you may have to wait.

Apple must be realizing by now that customers want video without the hassle of media storage. They know rental are the bread and butter. Music works on a buy and store model. Video gets complicated. They currently have the the distribution network before the technology; its still has not progressed enough through m4p technology. For $19.99 its missing subtitles, 1080p, 5.1 surround, menus, extras, etc. They don't have a model yet that works well for TV. They are between a rock and a hard place. Expect big changes coming to their model for TV and movies.
 
Shuttleworth said:
But he said "LIKE Hulu". Do Hulu have a monopoly on this type of service? If it's possible to provide the service for equipment LIKE the Apple TV, what's to stop someone else from doing it instead of Hulu? It probably would have to be someone different for us anyway, as we can't get Hulu in the UK.
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Whats stopping someone else? Wholesale transfer pricing. The content owners want all the money and will squeeze every bit out of it from anyone who attempts to monetize IP video services. Since Hulu is a joint venture, the owners look at it as a wash and any money they make off of it is just butter.
 
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