What Happened To The Palm Pre?

[QCassidy352]

Give Palm just as many years as Apple and we'll be able to compare a bit better.

Um... because Apple has been in the mobile phone / pda business so much longer than Palm?

Out of all of those, the Blackberry Storm has done the best. I'm sure the Storm 2 will do even better. If anything is the "iPhone Killer," it will be the Blackberry Storm series.

Haha, no. Besides being poorly implemented, the Storm is a bad concept to begin with. BB is built around corporate email and security - period. RIM's market is industry, and they should focus on delivering the best possible product to industry. Trying to make a play for the iphone segment is dumb. RIM can't do it, doesn't know how to do it, and doesn't need to do it.

To be a true iPhone killer, you need to have 'mindshare' amongst the average Joe.
The tech community will always have their favourites, but I guess that all the geeks among us, account for about 5% of total phone users worldwide(total guesswork here, lol).
Mention 'Palm Pre', 'Android', etc, to a total non-tech person, and they'd have no idea of what you're talking about.
They would have at least been made aware of 'iPhone', by now though.

Yes. Thank you. Most people on this board simply don't get that. The iphone has become an icon, a small part of American culture. No matter how nice the next new smartphone is, it's not going to "kill" the iphone or even approach its success unless it can somehow establish itself as iconic in some way.

My guess is it would take a well established, well known company to pull that off. Google actually has the credibility and the mindshare, but there is no "google phone." There are phones made by tons of different manufacturers that run something called "android," so people don't make the connection to google.

 

[Hutch1]

Definitely not. The Pre is a very nice device.

You've got to remember that the Pre was just released this year. The iPhone has been out for two full years and is on it's third generation of hardware. Android is on it's second generation (no real easy way to quantify this as the hardware manufacturers have control not Google) and its software is about to receive its 3rd MAJOR revision with Android 2.0.

Palm has a hit with WebOS. It needs the hardware to mature to really take advantage of the operating system. It's a tad ahead of itself when it comes to the required processing power it seems. There are going to be 3 major smartphone operating systems. iPhone OS, Android and WebOS. The rest are going to fade into the ether eventually, including Symbian.

Give Palm just as many years as Apple and we'll be able to compare a bit better. They're also about to release their second device that runs WebOS, the Pixi, in a month or so. They're also just about to get their App Store off the ground and really running. It's going to take some time. Apple had three years to get things going, Palm is playing catch up but both Palm and Google are gaining ground as Apple is sort of stagnating and hasn't seen any actual huge changes (at least not in the terms of leaps and bounds like Android has been seeing)

I guess thats one way of looking at but then again Palm has been making smart phones for how long? They've been making them more than a year and more than the three years Apples been making phones.

So lets get this straight the Pre will be an iPhone killer eventually, that is if the iPhone remains the same as it is now as the others improve their products and Apple just sits there. Somehow I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[RandomKamikaze]

Someone else posted in a different thread, that the only company that will be able to make an iPhone killer is Apple.

I some what agree with that statement. Apple has basically set the bar.

I do understand why everything gets compared to the iPhone, I just don't know if it will stop. After all, when talking about the best phone ever made, it's got to be the Nokia 6210

 

[kdarling]

That's a good point about the name "Android". It would help if it were more known as a "Google" associated thing.

As for hot names, things change. For many years the general public called any PDA "a Palm Pilot", because that was the most well known.

The Storm 2 is getting good reviews. Seems to be quite an improvement, speed and feel wise. Despite the common thought that RIM is only for businesspeople, they now sell over 50% of their phones to regular users. Heck, the Tour alone often sells as much as the 3GS in the U.S. So they do need to concentrate on consumers.

Never count out Microsoft. They're slow to put their R&D into practice, but they usually get near the target eventually, and that's all it takes for them to sell millions of anything. Especially in this case, with HTC and Samsung and others helping out.

 

[EarthDawn]

The Pre .... ????

Its gonna get some company with the Droid coming out lol

and my old 2G iPhone KILLS the Pre

 

[cababah]

I could be wrong here but I think the "Pre" was an old, old wooden ship used in the colonial era.

 

[Clete2]

Blackberry 2, don't make me laugh. Who even mentions that phone anymore, it has done the best in terms of what, the Palm Pre itself it 100 times better than the Storm.


<snip>

Really? I haven't even seen a Palm Pre in person! The Storm's selling rate far surpasses that of the Palm Pre. The Storm really is a good device and the Storm 2 looks even more promising. Besides, people love Blackberry.

 

[infosprt]

I fooled around alittle with the Pre and it definately is not as easy to use as the iPhone. The keyboard (thumbboard) is much harder to use than the iPhone on screen keyboard. I think a reviewer from the WSJ had the same opinion. I guess the Pre has some kind of on screen keyboard because the reviewer, if my memory serves me, mentioned he/she had to use it because they were making too many mistakes.

The pull down screen on the Pre is not nearly as intuitive as the slide motion to view more icons that the iPhone uses.

 

[Stormbringer]

Definitely not. The Pre is a very nice device.

You've got to remember that the Pre was just released this year. The iPhone has been out for two full years and is on it's third generation of hardware. Android is on it's second generation (no real easy way to quantify this as the hardware manufacturers have control not Google) and its software is about to receive its 3rd MAJOR revision with Android 2.0.

Palm has a hit with WebOS. It needs the hardware to mature to really take advantage of the operating system. It's a tad ahead of itself when it comes to the required processing power it seems. There are going to be 3 major smartphone operating systems. iPhone OS, Android and WebOS. The rest are going to fade into the ether eventually, including Symbian.

Give Palm just as many years as Apple and we'll be able to compare a bit better. They're also about to release their second device that runs WebOS, the Pixi, in a month or so. They're also just about to get their App Store off the ground and really running. It's going to take some time. Apple had three years to get things going, Palm is playing catch up but both Palm and Google are gaining ground as Apple is sort of stagnating and hasn't seen any actual huge changes (at least not in the terms of leaps and bounds like Android has been seeing)

So what? That the future of Palm could be bright doesn't mean that the Pré is an iPhone killer at this moment.

Anyway, the only device I could consider besides an iPhone is the upcoming SonyEricsson X10. Great looks, Android 2.0, 4.0" screen, plus everything else (including 8mpx camera). But still... it's not Apple!

 

[Goona]

Agreed. I think the Pre is a nice phone. If it was on at&t, I would seriously consider it.

I thought everybody hated AT&T?

 

[Goona]

Microsoft is dead in the water. By the time Windows Mobile 7 comes out it will probably be "meh, what happened to Windows Mobile phones?" The only company doing anything remotely cool with Windows Mobile is HTC and they seem to be putting more and more into Android.

RIM? Blah. They might have market share in the business end of things but the business side of cell phones is slowly becoming worthless when they'll all support the same general thing. iPhones do exchange, push email, calendar syncing. Android will as well in the next release. At that point it comes down to, "why RIM?" The Storm was a joke, the Storm 2 is a joke. BB OS is a joke.

Three OSes of the future, iPhone OS, Android, WebOS.

As for why give Palm more time? Because they have to basically reinvent themselves. They moved from Palm OS to WebOS. It's the equivalent of Apple going from OS 9 to OS X. It took years before OS X was really a replacement product. What makes you think Palm is in any less of a position to need time? That's just narrow mindedness on the OP part.

One thing people seem to fail to remember is that we should be cheering for companies like Palm and Google. The better their OSes are the more pressure they put on Apple. Which gives everyone better products. Then it comes down to choice. Which one do I like more? Not well, the iPhone is the only choice.

I wonder why the iphone bashers didn't say to give Apple more time since they've never made a phone before.

 

[kdarling]

I wonder why the iphone bashers didn't say to give Apple more time since they've never made a phone before.

Probably because Apple made claims like "we are five years ahead of everyone".

If you're humble, or poor, or the underdog, people are willing to give you extra time to catch up.

If you're haughty and rich and act like you invented everything, you don't get that leeway.

Just human nature.

 

[Goona]

Probably because Apple made claims like "we are five years ahead of everyone".

If you're humble, or poor, or the underdog, people are willing to give you extra time to catch up.

If you're haughty and rich and act like you invented everything, you don't get that leeway.

Just human nature.

LOL you mean the same Palm who arrogantly put a hack into their phone so that it can be identified by another company's software product as an ipod.

The same Palm who had their investors on TV shouting that all iphone users who have their contracts up would be ditching their iphones for Palm Pres.

The same Palm who had their CEO say that the iphone OS is bloated while their's is lightweight. Meanwhile in the real world the 3gs runs faster than the Palm Pre!

Yes they sure are humble.

 

[kdarling]

Yes they sure are humble.

lol Didn't mean to indicate that Palm was humble. Far from it!

But they do fit into the "poor" and "underdog" categories.

 

[Lara F]

Gaming ability aside, I think WebOS is brilliant and would LOVE to have multitasking implemented the same way on the iPhone. If it had been first there'd be nothing but praise here IMO.

The problem with the Pre is 1) Sprint only and 2) the hardware just doesn't match up. I'm under 5 feet so my fingers obviously aren't huge - and I still hated the keyboard immediately. And of course the relative lack of apps, though it's worth noting Slingmedia sent out a job posting requiring Android *and* WebOS knowledge which should be some encouragement. I think the most critically useful stuff will end up everywhere in the end.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens but I'm very much hoping Palm comes out with a great *phone* next year and on Verizon/ATT. Until that happens we're basically where Android was with just the G1.

 

[Daiden]

Android has the most potential, by far, but the hardware so far has been pretty terrible. I think what is really going to hold the Android platform back is the lack of uniform hardware. What made the Apple platform such an initial success is what a lot of people consider a negative: the complete control Apple has over all aspects of production. They create the operating system, they have final say over hardware, and even what applications can run on their phone. The strict control is both a help and a hindrance. On one hand, they can easily support all features of their phones because there isn't much of a hardware difference between the different models out there. On the other, the closed nature of the platform stifles potential for some amazing applications and innovations.

I'm just saying that Android is the only mobile OS that will seriously compete with Apple in the longer term, but there are some things they need to address before that can really happen.

 

[PhoneI]

I carried a Pre for 2.5 months. Its an awful device. The keyboard is down right unusable, the screen is way to small, the OS lags like crazy, the battery is terrible. The card system was neat, but I would choose an iPhone, Blackberry, or Android device any day over the Pre.

 

[Daiden]

Probably because Apple made claims like "we are five years ahead of everyone".

To be fair, they were ahead of everyone. Why else would the cell phone industry literally have scrambled to release similar products, as fast as they could? The iPhone pushed cell phone manufacturers and showed them that customers are no longer interested in terrible hardware. The Palm Pre owes a lot to the iPhone, as does nearly every other smartphone that has been released in the past 2 years.

I'm not saying that other phones are any better or any worse, but I am saying is that it's very revealing about the state of the phone industry when everyone is now pushing touch screen phones with much more sophisticated operating systems then we've seen in the past.

 

[JaySC]

Your point about the Pixi is interesting. I haven't heard of it up until now. It looks like a nice device. I read a lot of gadget news (engadget,mac rumors here,etc.) and I haven't seen anything on it. Will the average person notice it? Doubtful.

It was on CNET's home page about a month ago, and featured on others also around the time of its announcement.

To be fair, they were ahead of everyone. Why else would the cell phone industry literally have scrambled to release similar products, as fast as they could?

That's the point. Time wise they were way behind, product wise they were way ahead. Still are, most likely always will be. Maybe that's your point.

 

[greygray]

The Pre .... ????

Its gonna get some company with the Droid coming out lol

and my old 2G iPhone KILLS the Pre

You know, that's a bit of Fanboism there. The Pre has a good software ( WebOS ) that is the best competitor now. But it is let down by its hardware. All the iPhone needs to have is that multitasking standard with a good battery, then I would say that the Pre is a true "fail" device.

 

[LinMac]

The phone market is easy to divide:

1) Free mobile phone

2) Feature phone/low end smartphone

3) Smartphone/mobile computing

The iPhone is a success because it reached into 2 and 3 to pull customers instead of focusing on competing with existing products.

You will never convince some people to spend the money for a Motorla Droid, Palm Pre, or iPhone. They're just happy receiving a few text messages and making phone calls. The rest of the market is where the iPhone killers will "duke it out".

---

The future of phones is going to be the continued targeting of segments 2 and 3 for more and more mass market mobile phones that border on mobile computers. Prices will fall and more people will purchase a wider array of these devices.

What is the future of the rest?

1) Mobile OS X/iPhone - Apple has carved out a part of the market all to themselves that will be theirs for years to come. They aren't going anywhere and any "iPhone killer" will actually kill the weaker competitors more than the iPhone itself.

2) WebOS - This has a lot of potential as the OS is very flexible with an easy to use SDK. The Palm Pre won't be the only phone and Palm may find a nice niche in cheaper powerful phones marketed towards segment 1.

The Palm Pixi or similar WebOS devices at a $50 - 80 price might appeal to a certain buyer that isn't willing to pay the $200+ for a smartphone.

3) Android - I don't see this OS going anywhere with Google's backing. It is getting better with every release and upcoming SDKs should begin to do away with the remaining barriers to mobile gaming. I don't see Android phones being iPhone killers as iPhone users aren't likely to give up their iPhones under normal conditions. There may be short term gains against the iPhone as people move away from at&t's crumbling network, but in the longer term Android will gain more at the expense of Windows Mobile.

4) Blackberry OS - RIM is in every enterprise imaginable and that won't change anytime soon. They're still relevant in segment 3, but they're approaching the same kind of do or die that Palm found itself in a few years ago with the aging PalmOS compared to other operating systems. You can definitely see the Blackberry OS showing its age compared to Android or Mobile OS X, but it is still very usable.

We haven't seen the Blackberry Storm 2, but the original Blackberry Storm just seemed lacking. It wasn't just the lack of multitouch or the clicking touch screen. It is also the transition to an App Store/App World style application distribution and OS defects such as the browser.

5) Symbian - It has a lot going for it in segment 1 as it powers many many lower end phone models. It won't be going anywhere anytime soon, but I don't see it being relevant in higher end phones for the next few years compared to competitors. Nokia might surprise us, but so far the results have been lacking at best.

Why no Windows Mobile?

There is no discounting the amount of money Microsoft currently has to spend on developing Windows Mobile 7, but with Android on the move it won't come as a great surprise when Windows Mobile begins to rapidly lose market share over the next few years. The mobile space has many capable competitors with good products already on the market. It won't be completely gone for a long time (if ever), but it will take a lot to make it as capable as the freely available operating systems already on the market.

 

[maflynn]

Um... because Apple has been in the mobile phone / pda business so much longer than Palm?

You do realize that palm has had a smartphone/mobile phone/pdas out long before apple has (other then its ill fated attempt w/ newton).

you cannot say that apple has a headstart in the market, quite the contrary palm owned the market but couldn't develop an OS that was up to the task. They finally gave up and put linux on the device.

As for the OP's comments, I think Palm thought they had an iPhone killer and so didn't everyone else. The failure is possibly part carrier (everyone hates sprint), partly a poor designed OS and partly poor designed phone.

WebOS has a lot of great features, but from what I've read, it bogs down quite easily, cannot handle complex apps and games may not run as well

The phone design has received lots of complaints, from the plasticy fee, non-glass scratchable display, poor battery performance and tiny and flimsy keyboard.

I'm not counting palm out, but clearly the wiffed on this one. At one point verizon was lusting after the phone, until they saw how few units were actually being sold. Look now at how much discounting is going on, you can typically pick up a pre for 99 bucks. A far cry from those arrogant statements prior to its release

 

[cocky jeremy]

The Pre was never anything. Just another POS released. I called it well before release.. no one would give half a **** about it and it would disappear faster than the unworthy accolades came. 1/3 of them returned or replaced. Expected sells of 117k per week.. only selling 25k per week. I'd say it's a complete failure.

 

[kevink2]

The iPhone has the same thing going for it that the Mac has against it.

Once people buy apps, especially if they use them, they are probably less likely to switch. Knowing you need to buy equivalents again on Android, if they are even available. So maybe you just buy a newer version of the iPhone in the future.

The Mac, now that it is Intel, can run Windows applications (with a copy of Windows), so the perceived problem with switching has dropped somewhat. Even though I only run 1 Windows application on my Mac, it is important to me.

I can see smart phones breaking up into several camps, the iPhone camp, the Android camp, pre camp, RIM camp, etc, with major changes only coming along when one vendor either stagnates (like Palm did with PalmOS), or doesn't handle upgrades well (Microsoft was that way. Too many variations in hardware platforms, OS levels, etc). Apple hasn't stagnated yet, and they have, in the only 2+ years they have sold phones so far, maintained a pretty consistant platform. Would the iPhone have been a success today if you HAD to buy a new iPhone to get App Store access?

 

[brendu]

at&t is the iphone killer. I wanted one but refuse to deal with att and their complete rip off pricing. I have 3 pres on sprint with unlimited EVERYTHING and i pay less than one iphone with unlimited everything. I wont say the pre is a better phone than the iphone, the build quality is not as good no way around it. But webos is nicer than the iphone os, just not as many or as complex apps... but for what most users will use a smartphone for the pre does everything the iphone does and costs a lot less... its not going to fade away, and once it hits VZ it will only get bigger and more apps will come...