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You have to keep in mind it was significantly cheaper than the retina model, so it was the choice for those who simply wanted the cheapest new MacBook out there, without possibly caring for repairability or features that the retinas dropped.

Having a budget new option in the MacBook Pro line isn’t something they have done very often: whilst the mid 2015 15-inch MBP, wiith iGPU, was kept on sale for about 20 additional months after the Touchbar series replaced the rMBP, the general direction for Apple is to avoid having last-gen, entry-level “Pro” series Macs sticking around. Even then, that 15-inch iGPU model was much more spendy, in its extended life days, than the mid-2012 13-inch.

There was a strong demand because it had in-the-box features which everyone from individual consumers to company procurement officers recognized as need-to-haves.

The base model eventually dropped to USD$1,099, but at a time when the base model retina 13 had also dropped to USD$1,299 — and this was still a time when the higher-spec, 2.9GHz mid-2012 unibody model, in base configuration, at USD$1,249 (note: this isn’t mentioned on Everymac) — was seen as the better value not because its processor was a generation or two behind, but because of its readily apparent versatility and backward/forward compatibility proposition, as well as the buyer’s knowledge that RAM and standardized hard drive storage could be upgraded later for a song, were the deciding factors.
 
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The base model eventually dropped to USD$1,099, but at a time when the base model retina 13 had also dropped to USD$1,299 — [...]
That still meant saving 200 bucks (≈15%) by going with the non-Retina model, which may have been significant for a "poor" student as well as a company looking to purchase 20, 50 or 100 of them. The 11" 2012 MBA was even cheaper at 999 bucks (and the MBA was certainly popular among students), but perhaps its screen and/or SSD was deemed too small by some buyers.

There was a strong demand because it had in-the-box features which everyone from individual consumers to company procurement officers recognized as need-to-haves.
and this was still a time when the higher-spec, 2.9GHz mid-2012 unibody model, in base configuration, at USD$1,249 (note: this isn’t mentioned on Everymac) — was seen as the better value not because its processor was a generation or two behind, but because of its readily apparent versatility and backward/forward compatibility proposition, as well as the buyer’s knowledge that RAM and standardized hard drive storage could be upgraded later for a song, were the deciding factors.
Your point is crystal clear in the 1249-vs-1299 bucks case (it didn't make sense to forego the retina LCD just to save 50 bucks), but I'm not sure about the 1099-vs-1299 bucks case. Of course it made sense to purchase the non-retina MBP because of its deciding features, but not everyone purchases based on features.
 
Your point is crystal clear in the 1249-vs-1299 bucks case (it didn't make sense to forego the retina LCD just to save 50 bucks), but I'm not sure about the 1099-vs-1299 bucks case. Of course it made sense to purchase the non-retina MBP because of its deciding features, but not everyone purchases based on features.

Considering how deeply buried on Apple’s web site the unibody holdover was, people were still finding it and buying it for over four years, despite the retina promotion materials everywhere on said site. Even back in August early September 2012, I remember talking with people at a coffee shop in Seattle, where I was visiting, when we saw someone across the café using the first rMBP 15-inch any of us had ever seen in person. The soldered RAM and missing Ethernet were sticking points about it they brought up. I was thinking more about their dropping of FireWire.

So yes, these missing features were probably on the minds of informed buyers — many being buyers who probably could afford to budget those extra $200 — who never really warmed to the direction Apple were going with their thinner, über alles (including the dropping of built-in functions), tack. Otherwise, there’s little reason why Apple would keep the 15-inch around for another year and the 13-inch for another four if few were actually buying them.
 
Considering how deeply buried on Apple’s web site the unibody holdover was, people were still finding it and buying it for over four years, despite the retina promotion materials everywhere on said site.
Was it easy to come across in actual Apple Stores?

Even back in August early September 2012, I remember talking with people at a coffee shop in Seattle, where I was visiting, when we saw someone across the café using the first rMBP 15-inch any of us had ever seen in person. The soldered RAM and missing Ethernet were sticking points about it they brought up. I was thinking more about their dropping of FireWire.
I have an iGPU-only 15" r"MBP". To me, this thing is a larger MBA on steroids (just what I bought it for), not a thinner port-starved MBP.

Otherwise, there’s little reason why Apple would keep the 15-inch around for another year and the 13-inch for another four if few were actually buying them.
I didn't imply that only few were buying them. I was wondering how many buyers were prioritising the low starting price over features.

Personal case in point: In July 2006, I bought a MacBook. I didn't really care for white polycarbonate and really wanted an aluminum shell, but the MBP was (1) twice as expensive and (2) a bit too large and heavy for my taste. If there'd been a not-quite-as-expensive 13" (or better yet, 12") aluminum MacBook in 2006, I'd have bought that in a heartbeat.
 
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Was it easy to come across in actual Apple Stores?

For a time, the unibody model remained on retail display at Apple stores. Whether they were showcased or just tucked off in a corner is something I can’t answer.

Per the earlier-linked article posted by @GMShadow and also mention on Everymac, the unibody MBP was removed from retail store floors by June or July 2016, but kept on sale (and probably still stocked at Apple retail stores) until late October 2016, notwithstanding factory refurbs to linger on a little longer.

The amount of time I spent inside an Apple store, between 2012 (after my first A1278 keyboard replacement in May 2012, within its one-year warranty period) and 2016, was probably less than twenty minutes. After that 2011–12 threshold (and products worth looking forward to in person stopped being sold, like the iPod classic, the 4th/5th-gen iPod nano, the cMP, the unibody Macs, an operating system I wanted, promotional materials on Xserve… and so on), my desire to spend much time in those crowded, loud, hectic spaces made any desire to go in evaporate unless there was a thing they sold which I needed (such as a Magsafe adapter after my cat would chew one to failure).


I have an iGPU-only 15" r"MBP". To me, this thing is a larger MBA on steroids (just what I bought it for), not a thinner port-starved MBP.

That “steroids” thing is why it was a MBP and not a MBA or MB. :)

I love your always-fresh insights on display tech discoveries with unlikely mixes of hardware, software, and tweaks, but real talk here: you’re kind of an outlier as consumers go. Most folks don’t go into buying a laptop or MBP thinking, “How will this play nice with the multiple displays I have lying around my home?” Most folks buying these laptops simply want what they know works, has the in-built features and ports they need, is portable and easy to move around, and for a smaller group planning ahead, a sense of how upgradeable its internals may be.

The mid-2015 iGPU rMBP might not be your (display) cup of tea, but I suspect one of its enduring selling points for another year was not only consumer/buyer/procurement familiarity with the retina series by that point, but also a desire to stick with the older-styled keyboard whose mechanical/tactile origins dated back to the 2006 MacBook and 2008 MacBook Pro. It could be that Apple even did that as an olive branch to buyers who, even after 2016, insisted on having a MBP whose form factor was two generations behind.

Even as Apple made the function keys a base model feature of the Touchbar-era 13-inch models, enough consumers were disinterested, again (as with the long holdover with the unibody models), with the way Apple tried to drag all buyers forward at the same time to a less-versatile, more closed, and by some measures, flimsier-feeling product. And so they continued to buy the last-gen form factor rMBPs until 2018.


I didn't imply that only few were buying them. I was just wondering how many buyers were prioritising the low starting price over its features.

There might be some proprietary market research buried in an Apple storeroom, now caked in a sheen of dust, which might answer that question.

For musicians and digital video folks — prosumers, professionals, whatever — who were not in a place (or desire) to also upgrade their entire studio hardware away from, say, FireWire-based connectivity, that alone was probably a key selling point of it (and, until 2014, the Mac mini): they could take their laptop to different studios and not have to worry that stuff there might not connect with it. And even those folks who did use a second display for their in-studio workbench, the “slower” graphics of an iGPU which might not make a gamer or 4K fan swoon wouldn’t be at issue.

Personal case in point: In July 2006, I bought a MacBook. I didn't really care for white polycarbonate and really wanted an aluminum shell, but the MBP was (1) twice as expensive and (2) a bit too large and heavy for my taste. If there'd been a not-quite-as-expensive 13" (or better yet, 12") aluminum MacBook in 2006, I'd have bought that in a heartbeat.

:nod:
 
The integrated only 15" rMBPs also were more cooler running and likely more reliable, as there wasn't a dGPU inside. I had a 2014 model for a while before moving to the 2019 16" since that model got a proper keyboard.
 
So yes, these missing features were probably on the minds of informed buyers — many being buyers who probably could afford to budget those extra $200 — who never really warmed to the direction Apple were going with their thinner, über alles (including the dropping of built-in functions), tack.
I'm kind of this way with the notch on the new AS laptops and the dropping of the Touch Bar, hence insisting on an upgraded 13" Pro rather than a 14" Pro. I get why someone might not like the TB, but I honestly never use the F keys so it's cool to me for more precise control of stuff. Especially with AquaTouch. As for the notch... much has been said and TopNotch helps but only in macOS -- if I want to use Linux, OpenBSD, or (in the future) Haiku on AS, that notch really messes things up without a top panel or just reducing the display back down to 16:10 and just dealing with the bottom half being rounded and the top half not.​
 
I love your always-fresh insights on display tech discoveries with unlikely mixes of hardware, software, and tweaks, but real talk here: you’re kind of an outlier as consumers go.
I'll take that as a compliment. ;)

That “steroids” thing is why it was a MBP and not a MBA or MB. :)
Is a MBP without ports and dGPU a full-blown MBP in your book then?

Most folks don’t go into buying a laptop or MBP thinking, “How will this play nice with the multiple displays I have lying around my home?”
I didn't buy that particular machine with that in mind either. I wanted a powerful laptop that was still relatively light-weight, had a high-resolution screen large enough to comfortably run 1920×1200 HiDPI, a great keyboard, and ran Mavericks. That left only the late-2013/mid-2014 15" rMBP.

The mid-2015 iGPU rMBP might not be your (display) cup of tea, [...]
My rMBP is basically the same machine, and I do like it.

For musicians and digital video folks — prosumers, professionals, whatever — who were not in a place (or desire) to also upgrade their entire studio hardware away from, say, FireWire-based connectivity, that alone was probably a key selling point of it (and, until 2014, the Mac mini): they could take their laptop to different studios and not have to worry that stuff there might not connect with it.
The loss of FireWire can be mitigated with the 29-bucks Thunderbolt-to-FireWire adapter.

And even those folks who did use a second display for their in-studio workbench, the “slower” graphics of an iGPU which might not make a gamer or 4K fan swoon wouldn’t be at issue.
The integrated only 15" rMBPs also were more cooler running and likely more reliable, as there wasn't a dGPU inside.
The reasons I went for an iGPU model rather than a dGPU one were: (1) the Iris Pro 5200 is actually decent, (2) a dGPU that isn't there can't fail, (3) less heat, (4) more battery life. I've ran two external 4K displays from it.
 
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I'm kind of this way with the notch […] that notch really messes things up without a top panel or just reducing the display back down to 16:10 and just dealing with the bottom half being rounded and the top half not.​

I got so high-key mad when I opened the Kodiak public beta in a PPC emulator and the dang Apple icon was BLOCKED by the heckin’ notch! :mock_angry:

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I honestly never use the F keys so it's cool to me for more precise control of stuff​

An unanswerable question, I ponder, is whether this is generational preference or a by-product of the kinds of applications we tend to use on our own setups.

For example, on all my Macs, I use the function keys for everything relating to the system — namely, backlight and keyboard brightness, volume, and so on (though for me, I have it set up to use fn-Function key for those features).

On applications like QuarkXPress (or, well, InDesign), which has always relied on use of the function keys for product functionality, one can additionally (as with Adobe applications), set up shortcut keys for things like assigning style sheets.

My muscle memory of having used function keys for all but maybe the first three years of actually using Macs (ca. 1990–93) made losing the function key row a non-starter when the Touchbar got pushed forward (well, that, in addition to the butterfly keys, omg). I find that glass (or glass bar) can never be a suitable substitute much in the way, say, glass dashboards in a car (for me, this is only relevant when I hire a car for a holiday or a work trip) can’t replace actual button/switch functions when you need to have no distraction on what’s most pressing (pun not intended).
 
An unanswerable question, I ponder, is whether this is generation or a by-product of the kinds of applications we use on our own setups.
Honestly, for me, it's just from having started using Macs. I got used to keyboard shortcuts rather than using the F keys as F keys, on top of not having any games that used them on PowerPC. I mostly just read and write formatted text, so control/command shortcuts are all just fine. I used to use them a lot more when I had only ever used IBM compatibles.
I do use the physical buttons, but I just use them for their non-F row functions. And I appreciate just how much precision using a slider is to get brightness or volume just perfect rather than ratcheting in increments of 5% -- I genuinely do have times where I want to go from 5% to 2% brightness, and don't want to go hunt for a graphical brightness slider.
Plus, I feel like TB can be more flexible since it can scroll infinitely and you can assign labels to functions for each app, but that's not as important if you've got muscle memory.​
 
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My MBP '07 15 inch decided to not boot up anymore. It goes to the apple logo, loads and then crashes and turns off. Please tell me that isn't the graphics chip. I was on Chromium, and it crashed. I reset the PRAM, and then it started acting funny. The stuff started happening.
 
My MBP '07 15 inch decided to not boot up anymore. It goes to the apple logo, loads and then crashes and turns off. Please tell me that isn't the graphics chip. I was on Chromium, and it crashed. I reset the PRAM, and then it started acting funny. The stuff started happening.
Boot in verbose mode by holding [Command]-[V] after turning on and note what it says on the screen when it turns off. Record a video so you can watch it in slow-motion if the messages fly by too quickly.
Also try booting in Safe Mode by holding [Shift] after turning on and check "PCIe Link Width" in System Profiler > Graphics/Displays. If it does not say x16, the GPU is likely to be the culprit.
 
Boot in verbose mode by holding [Command]-[V] after turning on and note what it says on the screen when it turns off. Record a video so you can watch it in slow-motion if the messages fly by too quickly.
Also try booting in Safe Mode by holding [Shift] after turning on and check "PCIe Link Width" in System Profiler > Graphics/Displays. If it does not say x16, the GPU is likely to be the culprit.

It doesn't even want to boot into Safe Mode. o_O

Tried it once, didn't get the whole way across, and it restarted.

Second time, it froze and half loaded into safe mode. The bar dissappeared halfway across.

I don't even think Verbose Mode will work, if it's playing up this much.

You see, it was pretty much perfect before I upgraded it to Mavericks, for some strange reason. It has a SSD in it and 4GB RAM, so it isn't one of those issues.

It's a shame because this was the best specimen I found for a good price on eBay and its a SANTA ROSA version (2.6 GHz). I dunno how hard a logic board for one of those would be to come across, lol.
 
I don't even think Verbose Mode will work, if it's playing up this much.
The last message(s) displayed before it restarts may give a clue.

It's a shame because this was the best specimen I found for a good price on eBay and its a SANTA ROSA version (2.6 GHz).
All mid-2007/early-2008 MBPs are Santa Rosa.
 
… but that's not as important if you've got muscle memory.​

[Heads-up: my inner UI designer, from first career, is about to get on her soap box and shout at the water going down the stream…]

Yah, I think that’s the overarching thing being overlooked/ignored/downplayed/deprecated by the current crop of UX/UI designers, not just for things like phones and tablets, but especially in use-cases in which muscle memory serves as a functional safety feature — such as with motorized vehicles.

An over-reliance on using vision as the way to navigate a UI, whether it’s a car or a MBP, is not only — pardon the pun — a shortsighted rookie move and will probably be recognized as part of the current Zeitgeist’s fixation on glass UI, but it also speaks to how little interacting with the external world beyond one’s body, via a synthesis of other senses (such as muscle memory of things which actually, say, depress or flip), is on the minds of those designers. Here, I’m more thinking of the “minor” senses like touch, smell, taste, heat/cold, proprioception, etc.

Moreover, I question what proportion of those current designers who first came to interact with devices in their early lives did so outside of, say, video-gaming or other visually dominant digital activities, in which there’s a reliance on other key senses which take precedent (such as being vision-impaired and/or blind). For certain, though, insofar as it comes to a current-era, motorized vehicle (or even a conventional bicycle with an in-built mount for one’s phone (lolwhut)), these are not people who came to recognize, early on, the vital importance which muscle memory on physical, analogue controls has on the total and intuitive operability of a device, especially in conditions where safety/safe human operation is at a forefront.

While haptic response on glass or trackpads was a novel idea and has its place as a kind of “seasoning” for a multi-sensory HID/UI/UX, the over-reliance on that feature is no substitute or replacement for stationary controls (like said buttons, or keys on a keyboard, etc.) which commands the spatial tactility which can come from visualizing where the button/control is (without looking at it), but also feeling the motion in space of that control moving in a way which, at most, can be mimicked in very limited circumstances (like the haptic response trackpad on the rMBP).

tl;dr: I can’t wait for this Zeitgeist to move on and, to those who led that approach, to realize what its designers were deprecating, needlessly, in the HID/UI/UX design process — especially as those UI/UX glass-centred designers hit those hard, mortal walls of, say, age 35–40 and so on, when their cow-eye orbs* aren’t what they were back when they were still 13 or 26, and go, “lmao what were we thinking”.

* you bet that was a Q reference from Star Trek: The Next Generation
 
The last message(s) displayed before it restarts may give a clue.

I will do it tomorrow, hopefully. I hope it runs and doesn't freeze. I'm not wrapping it in blankets to temporarily fix it. That will burn something, lol. It already gets hot enough in about fifteen minutes (well, it did, but sorta still does if you keep restarting it enough times).

Compared to my MBP 09 17 Inch, it's pretty toasty. Not sure that the 09 got over 50c. And that's with the old spinning harddrive in it, and the same amount of RAM. (4GB). And that's me doing multiple things at once as well on Yosemite.

Snow Leopard is a lot cooler on it, probably because it's an older OS. Less intensive. I can run Reason 6 and media on it no problem. But the lack of support makes me boot Yosemite at times when I wanna watch Netflix or NowTV.

All mid-2007/early-2008 MBPs are Santa Rosa.

Oh, I didn't know that. I would still like to find a 2.6 GHz one. Of either year, that would be pretty cool. I know how to replace the logic board/take it out etc. I guess that could work if it is the chip (hopefully not). I wonder what else it could be.
 
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Hold up, this is a non-retina MBP, which means it’s definitely OK on here. :D

Only downside: it won’t run Snow Leopard natively (it can, but kludgily, after heavily modifying the install). This form factor is what I’ve been spending my days of late, with my late 2011 13-inch MBP, and it has been a valuable reminder of just how good this balance of HID, UI, mass distribution, and overall solidness is.

I share your sentiments. :)

In hindsight, whatever my misgivings toward Ivy Bridge not playing nicely with Snow Leopard, it surprises me none why Apple quietly allowed this model to remain on sale until late 2016 (and probably even later on their refurb store): there remained demand for a modular, portable Mac and a Mac with some or many of the aforementioned features (many of them to have disappeared on the retina replacement).

It was strange that Apple allowed that model to remain available for so long whilst discontinuing the 15" model which offered those features in an even more powerful context.

I wonder what else it could be.

If the GPU is fine, you could burn a Linux DVD and use that as a test: if the computer doesn't shut down during a live session then you can narrow down the problem to an issue with your macOS installation.
 
My daughter and me watch our Thundercats DVDs on my white 2010 MacBook. She likes cats and cartoons so I showed her some Thundercats clips on youtube. She liked it so I got us both a DVD box with all the episodes. We're in the middle of disk two. One more thing we can enjoy together. Thundercats, hoooooooooooooo! :)
 
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My daughter and me watch our Thundercats DVDs on my white 2010 MacBook. She likes cats and cartoons so I showed her some Thundercats clips on youtube. She liked it so I got us both a DVD box with all the episodes. We're in the middle of disk two. One more thing we can enjoy together. Thundercats, hoooooooooooooo! :)

Thundercats aired in the UK but most of the episodes were never broadcast. I might hunt down the box set and correct this travesty. It's available on Blu-ray which is even better. :)

Today, thanks to my ever trusty 2011 MBP, High Sierra and VLC, I watched the 2021 documentary Storm Lake which chronicles the struggle of biweekly local paper The Storm Lake Times to remain financially viable amidst the ever increasing demise of local news outlets and provide their readership with the utmost quality of journalism.

uyLXmN7.png


nuTRq5v.png


LfKuWaQ.png


RcigfW1.jpg


MMXqNaL.jpg


The above photomontages were put together using snapshots from the documentary that were generated by VLC and then assembled in PhotoScape X.
 
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Thundercats aired in the UK but most of the episodes were never broadcast. I might hunt down the box set and correct this travesty. It's available on Blu-ray which is even better. :)

Today, thanks to my ever trusty 2011 MBP, High Sierra and VLC, I watched the 2021 documentary Storm Lake which chronicles the struggle of biweekly local paper The Storm Lake Times to remain financially viable amidst the ever increasing demise of local news outlets and provide their readership with the utmost quality of journalism.

uyLXmN7.png


nuTRq5v.png


LfKuWaQ.png


RcigfW1.jpg


MMXqNaL.jpg


The above photomontages were put together using snapshots from the documentary that were generated by VLC and then assembled in PhotoScape X.
Wonder wot she would think of the U.K. puppet tv series "Thunderbirds"?
Be too dated for kids today..I expect.


Oops sorry ..replied to wrong post.
 
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