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I think you're missing a lot of details and living in an ideal world to be honest. First of all, "building a PC" by yourself often comes out to be more expensive than configuring a mass production PC. Not always, but quite often.
First, "building a PC" by yourself almost ALWAYS comes out to being less than buying from an OEM. I don't know what kind of world you're from, but this is the case 99% of the time.

Second of all, 3D performance is not all about "drivers". It's not even just about software. Or even graphics libraries. The industry depends on gamers selecting their (hardware) video cards, and often that revolves around selecting parts for their system as well. Although Macs let you "upgrade" to a certain "Apple certified" extent, they are still highly tied into the "pre-built" mentality. In order to change this business model...if it will actually happen in your AppStore inspiration scenario...it will take years. By that time, your current computer is obsolete and you would likely need to get a new model anyway to take advantage of the customization for gaming features. And as it stands, Apple is more of a consumer electronics company than a "computing" company. So you are putting a lot of faith into this "Apple gaming market".
Second, the person I was replying to was clearly talking about the OpenGL performance under OS X. He was not talking about the video cards. The industry does not depend on gamers selecting their hardware. When there are less hardware configurations it's easier to troubleshoot and this is where the Mac will succeed. When someone issues a problem the developer can imitate it perfectly. The same can hardly be said on the PC side of things.

Also what the **** are you talking about "AppStore" scenario? The only thing I mentioned about the AppStore is how Apple realized how games are important. Hence why they are marketing the iPod Touch as a gaming machine.

Apple's current way of doing things is no different than any other OEM dude, like Dell, HP, Asus, the works. They all have limited configurations.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the track record for GPU upgrades on the Mac Pro? Say I bought a Mac Pro right now with the GeForce GT 120 in it, would I be more or less inclined to see a replaceable GPU upgrade within ~3 years?
Well, the original 2006 models — which started with the options of Geforce 7300, Radeon X1900XT, or Quadro FX 4500 — eventually got the Geforce 8800GT and Radeon 3870 (retail model only). The Radeon 4870 and Geforce GTX285 that were released are only compatible with the early 2008 models and up. IIRC the key difference was a change from 32- to 64-bit EFI and the pre-2008 models are stuck with 32-bit (we can't boot Snow Leopard with the 64-bit kernel either, though we can run 64-bit processes just fine), which requires extra space on the graphics card's ROM for the 32-bit compatible firmware... or something along those lines. No idea if the Radeon 5870 in the just-announced models will work as far back as the 2008 models. Haven't heard anything about Geforce 400 series cards for Mac.

You can always build something for cheaper, but the fact that you can get something better is a laughable statement when considering the game we're talking about is six years old.
Sorry, but this really bugs me. WoW is not the same game it was back in 2004. The graphics while in Northrend are substantially more demanding. True that while you're in vanilla Azeroth most areas are much the same, but this will be changing in Cataclysm. If you want to get the most out of the game by running the visuals on max settings, you're going to need somewhat good hardware. For example, my MP/8800GT struggles with WOTLK on High settings. Forget even trying to get a playable framerate in Dalaran without lowering the settings.

I still think the OP would be better off with a Mac Pro if it's not a struggle to afford one. if they're anything like me, gaming aside, the iMac ends up being too limiting too fast, though it would certainly be a very nice machine for a while.
 
First, "building a PC" by yourself almost ALWAYS comes out to being less than buying from an OEM. I don't know what kind of world you're from, but this is the case 99% of the time.


Second, the person I was replying to was clearly talking about the OpenGL performance under OS X. He was not talking about the video cards. The industry does not depend on gamers selecting their hardware. When there are less hardware configurations it's easier to troubleshoot and this is where the Mac will succeed. When someone issues a problem the developer can imitate it perfectly. The same can hardly be said on the PC side of things.

Also what the **** are you talking about "AppStore" scenario? The only thing I mentioned about the AppStore is how Apple realized how games are important. Hence why they are marketing the iPod Touch as a gaming machine.

Apple's current way of doing things is no different than any other OEM dude, like Dell, HP, Asus, the works. They all have limited configurations.

Your "configuration ease" scenarios are good for computer idiots and ppl who don't really care much for things beyond like email and photos. And incidentally, that's one big sector that Apple caters to. For ppl who are semi-enthusiast, you don't need a degree from MIT to operate plug and play. Why has the PC pervaded for so long even though in it's hay days, it was actually somewhat closer to the nigthmare you describe? Because ppl who want to get their performance out of it will take the small effort to learn about it. It's as simple as that.

And if you think buying a random component to work with a Dell is the same as a Mac, well, lets just say you never left a Mac store. Dell is just a muscle and advertisement company. They make like NOTHING, except contract some Chinese company to mold a plastic case...over an existing metal frame even. And they buy the "OS" and put other ppl's trial software on it for money.
 
Sorry, but this really bugs me. WoW is not the same game it was back in 2004. The graphics while in Northrend are substantially more demanding. True that while you're in vanilla Azeroth most areas are much the same, but this will be changing in Cataclysm. If you want to get the most out of the game by running the visuals on max settings, you're going to need somewhat good hardware. For example, my MP/8800GT struggles with WOTLK on High settings. Forget even trying to get a playable framerate in Dalaran without lowering the settings.
It's still on the same engine, and the 8800gt is three years old, the fact that you are complaining about "hardly" being able to run on high settings is again, laughable.


Your "configuration ease" scenarios are good for computer idiots and ppl who don't really care much for things beyond like email and photos. And incidentally, that's one big sector that Apple caters to. For ppl who are semi-enthusiast, you don't need a degree from MIT to operate plug and play. Why has the PC pervaded for so long even though in it's hay days, it was actually somewhat closer to the nigthmare you describe? Because ppl who want to get their performance out of it will take the small effort to learn about it. It's as simple as that.
LOL, is this a joke? So now you are calling everyone who buys from an OEM an idiot? I was talking about developers like Valve who troubleshoot issues can easily replicate it on the Mac. They can't do that on the PC. No where near it. I was not talking about the end user, you moron.

Also when the **** did I call PC a nightmare? All I said it's easier for developers to troubleshoot and get to a problem on the Mac side of things because there are less configurations to go through meaning faster patches and fixes for Mac games.

And if you think buying a random component to work with a Dell is the same as a Mac, well, lets just say you never left a Mac store. Dell is just a muscle and advertisement company. They make like NOTHING, except contract some Chinese company to mold a plastic case...over an existing metal frame even. And they buy the "OS" and put other ppl's trial software on it for money.
Go search OEM on Google and get back to me. You are making yourself look like the biggest fool, buddy. You can buy third party hardware for your Mac just as much as you can a Dell. Also maybe you haven't heard of laptops? The majority of the PC industry? :rolleyes:
 
It's still on the same engine, and the 8800gt is three years old, the fact that you are complaining about "hardly" being able to run on high settings is again, laughable.


LOL, is this a joke? So now you are calling everyone who buys from an OEM an idiot? I was talking about developers like Valve who troubleshoot issues can easily replicate it on the Mac. They can't do that on the PC. No where near it. I was not talking about the end user, you moron.

Also when the **** did I call PC a nightmare? All I said it's easier for developers to troubleshoot and get to a problem on the Mac side of things because there are less configurations to go through meaning faster patches and fixes for Mac games.

Go search OEM on Google and get back to me. You are making yourself look like the biggest fool, buddy. You can buy third party hardware for your Mac just as much as you can a Dell. Also maybe you haven't heard of laptops? The majority of the PC industry? :rolleyes:

I'm through wasting my time responding to you because you're obviously a troll who just wants to make up stuff to argue about. I suggest anyone reading this thread ignor this poster's comments. Anyways...moving on....:rolleyes:
 
I'm through wasting my time responding to you because you're obviously a troll who just wants to make up stuff to argue about. I suggest anyone reading this thread ignor this poster's comments. Anyways...moving on....:rolleyes:

ROFL, what a joke. You just got owned because you don't even know what I'm talking about. Try harder next time, moron.
 
A mention of the industry relying on consumers to pick their own hardware could be a reference to the fact that consumer choice of graphics cards in PCs where customers can replace them drives competition between ATI and Nvidia in terms of upgrading/improving drivers. Graphics companies are constantly trying to sell customers new hardware and improving the drivers increases the value proposition of their cards. On the Mac, only one modal has a replaceable card and it sells in low volume due to the price. Thus, once ATI and Nvidia ship their card to customers they have little incentive to improve drivers because they can't sell most of those customers a new card anyway. Food for thought.
 
Big fast Hard Drive makes a huge difference in WOW - upgraded mine and got constant silky smooth griffon rides.

In general, if you have enough RAM, you should not have a lot of memory paging to the HD. I upgraded to 6GB a while back, but I still hear the HD working every once in a while. However, I never really thought that my performance issues would be attributed to a slow/small HD.

I am not sure how much RAM is really needed by a game like WoW, but 6GB should be plenty. After all, this is not Adobe Photoshop. However, there may be some inherent programming inefficiencies (both in WoW and Mac OS X drivers) that may be under utilizing the power of the graphics card, available CPU cores, available RAM, etc. So, you default to a lot of HD activity.

The new (and expensive) SSDs that are optional for the new iMac and Mac Pro configurations should be an interesting experiment.

I am not in the position to test any of these theories, but it would be good to find out experiences from other people.
 
Lol, so you're saying you're a pro at going to newegg and pricing out a custom build when not putting the price into how much it costs to build an iMac? Get real dude. Of course you'll be able to build something cheaper than getting something from an OEM, but the iMac's monitor costs $1000 so the internals cost around that much as well. The iMac price for what you get is actually a great deal.

Of course you can build a higher "performing" machine. You can always build something for cheaper, but the fact that you can get something better is a laughable statement when considering the game we're talking about is six years old. A 27" LCD from Dell (U2711) costs $1100 dude. Try finding a monitor with the same resolution and display quality as the iMac for lower for cheaper than $1000. I'd love to see it.

Of course you're not optimistic. Maybe you haven't heard of Valve? A Valve developer (rbarris) has made posts hinting at the fact that Valve has a major future say in the drivers and OpenGL performance in OS X when someone was arguing that they didn't. Before Apple had no reason to improve performance. Now they do. Before Apple didn't realize how important games were because they didn't have the App Store. Now they do. Maybe you think OS X will stay stagnant with bad drivers, but that's because you're either a troll or you are truly clueless. Or maybe you are trying to justify your purchase of some custom PC dedicated solely for gaming when you could be doing everything on one computer.

Yeah, of course it's a pipe dream to you because gaming on the Mac is still immature. Valve is at the front line now, if you don't think anything is going to get any better then you are delusional dude. The new iMac drivers for the 5xxx line already show massive improvements compared to previous gen iMacs that have yet to have a driver update.

Why don't you present me with real information, instead of just conjecture. Your response is really nothing more than optimism, guesses, lots of Black and White assumptions, and a few insults.

If you want one example of LOL, or laughable, or clueless, that would be that would be your understanding of OEM.

And btw, I've been careful with my words, where as you've read too far into something that wasn't there in the first place. Take my use of novice. I kept it short, as in I'm experienced -- but in hindsight, I should have just stated that in the first place. Here... I've built more than a couple of dozen PCs since the early nineties -- I've been using them since the eighties, but yet you took it to the extreme, assuming I thought of my self as a pro, so questioned that aspect -- another exaggeration on your part. BTW, no I don't use Newegg, which goes to show what you don't know.

And then there's this comment that I'm either a troll or truly clueless, because it seems that your way of thinking doesn't allow for many variants. I don't know you in person, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're probably a good guy, but when I read that sort of thing, all I can think of is that you're a jerk that's scope of experience is so limited, that you can't see any other options -- keep this in context to what I wrote.

My comments have all been about PC for gaming in general, not just for WoW. Yes, this thread asked about that particular game, but it also asked which configuration of Mac, which if you're looking at a Mac for a game IMO, even an older one, one really needs to consider just getting a PC. I've been a Mac guy for a long time and I've encountered guys like you before and even shared in your optimism years back. Nothing has really ever come of it and the promises you're stating are not new, they've been presented before, but with different developers, games, 3D programs, etc. On the App store, the only thing I'm seeing as far as a change, is Apple's focus on social-gaming. And stop being an arse, of course I know about STEAM, it blows on the Mac side.

When I worked for MacPlay, gaming was probably more mature than it is now, as in at least back then I could get pretty much the same games for either platform and most of the Mac games weren't just ports.

Anyways, optimism is good, but there is a point that it comes off as being naive.
 
Why don't you present me with real information, instead of just conjecture. Your response is really nothing more than optimism, guesses, lots of Black and White assumptions, and a few insults.
Why don't you present some real information? Your entire post is just pessimism saying that the drivers on Mac OS X will never get better. You never posted an example that the iMac monitor wasn't worth $1000. You never posted an example that the drivers under Mac OS X will never get better. I've posted a similar quality monitor from Dell that costs $1100. I've posted information from Valve developers on the future of OS X drivers and OpenGL performance. You have given nothing.

If you want one example of LOL, or laughable, or clueless, that would be that would be your understanding of OEM.
Yeah, I love your examples. Get real dude.

And btw, I've been careful with my words, where as you've read too far into something that wasn't there in the first place. Take my use of novice. I kept it short, as in I'm experienced -- but in hindsight, I should have just stated that in the first place. Here... I've built more than a couple of dozen PCs since the early nineties -- I've been using them since the eighties, but yet you took it to the extreme, assuming I thought of my self as a pro, so questioned that aspect -- another exaggeration on your part. BTW, no I don't use Newegg, which goes to show what you don't know.
Wow so you've built some PC's together. Congratulations, if you don't want to make it seem like you are coming off as some amazing expert then don't even mention it. You saying you built a couple of PC's is pointless. This is how you come off: "I've built a dozen of PC's, I know what I'm talking about, you don't".

And then there's this comment that I'm either a troll or truly clueless, because it seems that your way of thinking doesn't allow for many variants. I don't know you in person, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're probably a good guy, but when I read that sort of thing, all I can think of is that you're a jerk that's scope of experience is so limited, that you can't see any other options -- keep this in context to what I wrote.
I said you were either a troll or clueless if you truly think the OpenGL performance under Mac OS X would stay stagnant, dude. How about you stop taking things out of context?

My comments have all been about PC for gaming in general, not just for WoW. Yes, this thread asked about that particular game, but it also asked which configuration of Mac, which if you're looking at a Mac for a game IMO, even an older one, one really needs to consider just getting a PC. I've been a Mac guy for a long time and I've encountered guys like you before and even shared in your optimism years back. Nothing has really ever come of it and the promises you're stating are not new, they've been presented before, but with different developers, games, 3D programs, etc. On the App store, the only thing I'm seeing as far as a change, is Apple's focus on social-gaming. And stop being an arse, of course I know about STEAM, it blows on the Mac side.
Has it ever crossed your mind that people may not want two computers? They want one computer than they can turn on do everything they want it to do while still being comfortable with the OS they have used for years or the OS the prefer all on one machine. That's the idea here, and of COURSE Steam isn't that great on the Mac side dude, it's been out for what? Not even 3 months? It's still immature, although the application is really just a means to an end so there's no point complaining about. If it functions it functions and there's not much more to it.

When I worked for MacPlay, gaming was probably more mature than it is now, as in at least back then I could get pretty much the same games for either platform and most of the Mac games weren't just ports.

Anyways, optimism is good, but there is a point that it comes off as being naive.
Of course games were more mature on Mac OS X when you supposedly worked at MacPlay. x86 Macs have only been on the market for four years. FOUR YEARS.
 
I like a good, lively discussion about any topic, but let's get this back to what the original question was.

As I mentioned before, we are an Apple household and I really just have room for one desktop computer to do all my daily tasks, including playing WoW.

I am not interested into getting a separate, dedicated gaming PC just to run WoW. Hence, it is pointless to keep praising the virtues of Windows, Direct X, graphics drivers, and PC technologies.

What I would like to know is which of the recent Mac configurations is "best" to run WoW after the incoming Cataclysm expansion comes out.

I am replacing a six-year-old dual PowerMac (see my signature), so I am trying to decide for something that could technically live that long including a computer or hardware upgrade after every 2-3 years of use. Basically, something between a Mac Pro or an iMac.

One issue is that I also need to upgrade my old Apple Cinema Display with ADC connector. That's an extra $700-1000. Someone mentioned that I could use the old monitor by getting a converter from mini-DVI to ADC. Is that true?
 
Simple answer: the mac pro is hands down better for WoW in performance right now. Better processors, better graphics card, more memory, better ventilation (imo very important if you game a lot, can really extend computer life), and better expandability for future generations of games. Price is what it comes down to.

I had a similar powermac as you and it lasted I believe 5.5 years before I felt I really needed an upgrade. I then got an iMac and it lasted 2.5 before I got another iMac (I went with another iMac vs a Mac Pro because I wanted the 27" monitor without paying a ton). With upgrades, you could extend the life of a Mac Pro to 6-7 years with a couple hundered dollars for RAM and a new harddrive and maybe $500 for a new video card. So you're looking at 2 iMacs in that time. The thing is, you can actually buy 2 iMacs for the price of a mac pro (maybe even 3 considering they have good resale value). Plus that second iMac will have better performance than the current Mac Pro.

Considering that computer performance seems to ramp up exponentially, I would strongly consider having decent performance consistently for the next 6 years by getting an iMac now and getting another one in a few years rather than having excellent performance for a few years that tails off.

Also, in 6 years, technologies like lightpeak will have (maybe) taken off, and you don't want to get left too far behind.
 
Simple answer: the mac pro is hands down better for WoW in performance right now. Better processors, better graphics card, more memory, better ventilation (imo very important if you game a lot, can really extend computer life), and better expandability for future generations of games. Price is what it comes down to.

I had a similar powermac as you and it lasted I believe 5.5 years before I felt I really needed an upgrade. I then got an iMac and it lasted 2.5 before I got another iMac (I went with another iMac vs a Mac Pro because I wanted the 27" monitor without paying a ton). With upgrades, you could extend the life of a Mac Pro to 6-7 years with a couple hundered dollars for RAM and a new harddrive and maybe $500 for a new video card. So you're looking at 2 iMacs in that time. The thing is, you can actually buy 2 iMacs for the price of a mac pro (maybe even 3 considering they have good resale value). Plus that second iMac will have better performance than the current Mac Pro.

Considering that computer performance seems to ramp up exponentially, I would strongly consider having decent performance consistently for the next 6 years by getting an iMac now and getting another one in a few years rather than having excellent performance for a few years that tails off.

Also, in 6 years, technologies like lightpeak will have (maybe) taken off, and you don't want to get left too far behind.

Ah yes. lightpeak. The long awaited consumer fiber-optic revolution. That's one major factor that's slated to change personal computing architecture. Can't wait to see what they have in store. If it's practicality lives up to it's claims, you'd be missing a lot with incompatible computers.
 
What I would like to know is which of the recent Mac configurations is "best" to run WoW after the incoming Cataclysm expansion comes out.

I am replacing a six-year-old dual PowerMac (see my signature), so I am trying to decide for something that could technically live that long including a computer or hardware upgrade after every 2-3 years of use. Basically, something between a Mac Pro or an iMac.
Ah yes, the long sought after "headless iMac" or "Mac Pro Mini" that people have wanted since the beginning of time. :D Seriously, it would be cool if Apple had a minitower to fill this gap, but it doesn't look like they have any plans for one. So, I think the Mac Pro then has to win, for sure. Probably any of Apple's latest Macs will be able to run Cataclysm well, but you're simply not going to get the same life out of them as the Mac Pro. And the Radeon 5870 is near (or at) the top of the list for single GPU cards.

As for RAM, the more the merrier. WoW isn't 64-bit, but more will leave you with plenty of overhead for less page ins/outs. I would start with at least 4GB and work upward from there.

It's still on the same engine, and the 8800gt is three years old, the fact that you are complaining about "hardly" being able to run on high settings is again, laughable.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. You were saying "lol it's a 6 year old game", while I'm saying the expansions have made it more demanding. Otherwise, my hardware which is 2-3 years newer would be able to handle it on max just fine. Obviously you can turn the settings down, just depends on what you want.
 
According to Blizz's site, people won't be required to get Cataclysm; if they don't, they will see the updated old-world areas, they just won't get the new races and level 81-85 content.

Oops, just read the referenced article. It shows that WoW will work optionally with DX11 if desired, but it is certainly not required.

No it's not "required", but just saying that it may be a consideration for some ppl. It'slikely to be min DX 9.0c or whatever to get the XP ppl to buy it.

But maybe it will actually have an 64-bit client. Other games have gone that route so if you want 64-bit performance out of it, you can install the 64-bit client.
 
I'm not quite sure what your point is. You were saying "lol it's a 6 year old game", while I'm saying the expansions have made it more demanding. Otherwise, my hardware which is 2-3 years newer would be able to handle it on max just fine. Obviously you can turn the settings down, just depends on what you want.

If you read some of his other posts, he doesn't get that graphics on Mac is not equivalent to PC...or that Valve or some other magical entity will fix that tomorrow. I haven't tried that area you are talking about myself but even if going by "theory", I would believe you because if you look at all these "Mac requirements", they are always higher than that of the PC version. So given that fact, I would suggest a decent overhead buffer...especially when you're speccing for a game that far over the horizon...and as you mentioned, including future updates.
 
I'm not quite sure what your point is. You were saying "lol it's a 6 year old game", while I'm saying the expansions have made it more demanding. Otherwise, my hardware which is 2-3 years newer would be able to handle it on max just fine. Obviously you can turn the settings down, just depends on what you want.
You were saying the expansions made it more demanding then using the fact that your three year old hardware can hardly run it on high. Hardly anything substantial to defend your argument with. It doesn't change the fact that World of Warcraft will still look like an early PS2 game when Cataclysm comes out. Adding water reflection must really tax your 8800gt :rolleyes:


If you read some of his other posts, he doesn't get that graphics on Mac is not equivalent to PC...or that Valve or some other magical entity will fix that tomorrow. I haven't tried that area you are talking about myself but even if going by "theory", I would believe you because if you look at all these "Mac requirements", they are always higher than that of the PC version. So given that fact, I would suggest a decent overhead buffer...especially when you're speccing for a game that far over the horizon...and as you mentioned, including future updates.
LOL, looks like the moron that calls everyone who buys from an OEM an idiot is back looking to get spanked again. Another idiot who thinks that the Mac OpenGL performance will stay stagnant and never get better. There have already been massive driver improvements and performance fixes with the latest 5xxx line of iMacs. You have provided no evidence that the performance will never get any better. You are just some dolt that likes to go on a forum called MacRumors to defend your PC shitbox you threw together.
 
To the people who don't think Mac has the kick for WoW.

9600 GT @ 512 MB RAM.

WoW = Max setting on everything = 50/60 FPS no lag

Only thing I did to improve raids was turn off multisampling.

This is a 2/3 year old computer we are talking about here.
 
Hello, I have been following the discussion here. If it is worth anything, I am currently in the Beta program for WoW Cataclysm, and would like to give my thoughts on all of this:

"I would like to run WoW at high settings" is a remark that can mean many things. If we're talking about the latest and greatest, then the game can run in 2560x1440 resolution, which is really nice for such a heavy UI intensive game like WoW.
Here is a video of the game running a core i5 2009 Imac(last years model) with Ultra Settings, with the in-game recording, at 2560x1440 in a 25 Man Raid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-eeOH1o20A

It runs fairly smooth. It's last years model, meaning that should the original poster buy the latest Imac with the even better graphics card, and the Quad-Core i7, for around the 2800 USD, WoW should be running at it's maximum.




HOWEVER, in the current Beta for World of Warcraft, Cataclysm there is a number of things that Blizzard is doing to try and keep the system requirements low, yet add more visual fidelity.

WoW has long been known as a game that could run on a 800 MHz processor with a 64 MB Graphics card. But that was in 2004. Later visual features like increased draw distance, the shadow technology, better multi sampling, more demanding addons, and the sheer increase in visual fidelity that has popped up doing the years in Armor, Creatures and Areas, have made it a lot more demanding. You can see that it's harder for the FPS counter to stay above, in Outland or Northrend, because they have much more layers of details.

In Cataclysm, they have added a new sun lighting effect call Sunshaft. What it does, is that it gives nice lighting when flying, or panning across the sun. Considering how many ways the lighting is used, it gives a nice visual touch, but it hits quite hard in performance. We can not say for certain if it will be less demanding later on as optimization gets better, or if it's just a costly effect that the powerful users can enable. Example of Sunshaft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YubAg6Nm6qc

Another they are adding, is a new look to Water. It's still possible to use the old water, by disabling the Water Slider, or putting it to low, but the new Water also takes a hit, but it's currently bugged right now. There is so many things in the beta that is bugged currently. Here is a video of the new, very nice water effects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3qIwdXj2pw
They look particularly nice when there is rain in them.


Furthermore, and also a big performance hit, the draw distance has been increased somewhat, meaning that the computer has to render even bigger areas, as you can see further back in the distance than ever before. Blizzard Developers have confirmed, that it's now twice as long(draw distance) as it was when WoW came out 6 years ago.
It's still not as long as I would personally have liked, but it's a nice detail though, that comes with performance cost. Here is an example of a guy flying around Orgrimmar on his Drake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J23QbcQvE3Q



Another thing they have added, is higher quality models. People like Hellscream and Malfurion have a very high quality about them, and all these things come with a performance cost. They have re-done the Elementals that are scattered throughout the game, among many more things.
The new Goblin and Worgen look amazing, and it seems that a Worgens hair has more polygons and details in its face, than the other races have in their entire models.


So original poster is in a bit in a dilemma. Will he get his money worth in an Imac? My feelings is that he will, because if a 2009 Imac with a i5 can run it at the highest, I think his investment in a new Quad-Core i7 Imac will pay off.
WoW prides itself on still being so scaled back that it will run on even a Netbook(though at poor visual quality, of course) but that it can look really nice. Blizzards art department, lead by Chris Metzen, created a art style that was long lasting. I find it unfair to call it Cartoony.
I would more say that WoWs art is simply more interesting to look at, and that is why it was Everquest 2 that waved the white flag, by announching that their dropping their monthly fee this week. In 2004 when these games where released head to head, WoW was shunned and laughed at for it's graphics, but as things have turned out, Everquest 2 was a boring mishmash of grey, black and brown generic fantasy with little personality. It's a great game actually, and it deserves to be played, but WoWs graphics have lasted so long because I believe it's simply more interesting to look at colorful areas, fight exaggerated but unrealistic monsters, and play as characters that might not look realistic or like in Lord of the Rings, but have tons of personality, warmth and breathe to them.


I also want to state that I am currently lvl 38 in the Beta, with my Human Paladin, and I am currently in the Hinterlands. I think this expansion is terrific, and that many of their revamped zones are the best I have ever seen in WoW, or any other MMO. Redridge Mountains and Westfall takes the cake so far. I also love the new Paladin. He is amazing, and turned from the most boring yet-powerful class, to the most fun class ever. He is now like a combination of a Warrior and a Rogue that can heal. He is amazing.




To sum up my opinion for the OP; I too think that the Mac Pro is overkill. But as he has found out, I am sure - There is no middle Mac computer between Mac pro and the Imac, meaning that either he would have to buy a powerful entry Imac, to then upgrade later, or he would have to go with a non upgradeable Imac that could not be updated later outside of Ram and Hard Drive.
To my knowledge, no computer game I know off, uses more than 4 GB of Ram, though I know games like Grand Theft Auto 4, really likes Vram, - The sort of ram that is on the graphics card. 6 and 8 GB of Ram should be great for multitasking - Running lots of addons, using Itunes in the background, recording videos while playing the game and such.


I might be biased for I am attracted to the latest 27'' as I like to have it all in a small form factor, and also get a IPS when I buy it. The IPS Display in the Imac is very nice even though it's glossy, over saturated with colors and has issues with yellow tint and such. I do think it would be a better investment than, and try to make it last as long as possible. 6 years? I am not sure that any computer would, in terms of being relevant in high performance and popular applications.

I have had my own Imac for two years, and hope to pass it along, as I would like the extra kick, and going from 1080p to 1440p, but that is just me, as I am a power junkie, and use my computer seriously a lot.
I think there is a long term use for an Imac. It won't be the most powerful thing ever, and it comes at a premium price as your paying a lot for the asthetics of a computer inside a computer screen, which should not be forgotten when comparing value and price.

With all things considered, I think Imac is the only true desktop Mac Computer for everyone but the most hardcore editors, who handles many Terabyte of RED footage and such. I think Imac and Macbook Pro 15'' are the bread and butter of the Imac line, with Macbook Pro 13 and Mac Mini coming down for lighter users, and Mac Pro and Macbook Pro 17, being the incredible machines for unrealistic harsh tasks, which WoW is not part off.

In my experience it, is now worth paying 5000, 10000, or 15000 bucks for the latest technology, as in my opinion you never get your money worth, and most of all - Not the future proofness you wanted. It's a noble ideal to have something that remains problem free, and powerful for many years. Buying a piece of mind, not having to worry and spend time on upgrades.
But I think it's the same as eating cake and being on a diet. You can't have it all.
In the case of this, most of this ultra expenssive technology will never be useful as other things often come in between and becomes the standard. Many early adopters of Quad-Core wasted their money as they bought the first Quad-Cores that didn't have support from games, but by the time Quad-Core was useful, their over expenssive over priced quad-core, was not the quad-core to get anymore. I think it's a fine example of the dangers of being an early adopter.
I think the right mindset is just to see how it goes.
I know it from myself, as I have changed my Phone every year for the last 4-5 years, with the last one costing the same as a Iphone, and I have been dissapointed with all of them. It has made me learn that what I want is really not the best and greatest - But just something that lasts me a long time and something that I am happy with.
I don't know if anyone else feel the same, but I have certan electronics that have gotten sentimental about, and that's nice. That's when I feel that the product has been worth it's money.

Because at the end of the day, you can't plan years ahead. You just can't. It does not work that way. Buy what you now, and see what happens down the road. That's my suggestion. Trying to predict your needs 5-6 years out in the future is not feesable. Not with the rate technology moves.
 
LOL, looks like the moron that calls everyone who buys from an OEM an idiot is back looking to get spanked again. Another idiot who thinks that the Mac OpenGL performance will stay stagnant and never get better. There have already been massive driver improvements and performance fixes with the latest 5xxx line of iMacs. You have provided no evidence that the performance will never get any better. You are just some dolt that likes to go on a forum called MacRumors to defend your PC shitbox you threw together.

You realize that you're just showing your immaturity by your petty insults to mask your insecurity from the possibility that you will be wrong. I've seen the zealotry of your kind. You barely understand technology from it's core and the industry in general but yet for years and years you keep thinking that something revolutionary is down the road for YOUR OWN point of idealistic view.

Sad, to say...as with years past and ppl with your mentality, if things don't go your way, you will blame so and so and maybe corruption of the industry, misalignments of the planets, whatever, that your rainbow scenario didn't crop up.

And by the way, Valve is not an Operating System company. Graphics is part of the OS. And in this case it's OSX...a product of Apple. It's not as seamless and easy as you think competativeness wise...especailly with an industry that is highly established and with long time partners working together for years. And I admit that I can't predict the future, but I don't know why you are so sure you can when the odds have always been against it. Maybe you should redefine your standards of "massive improvement" as well...
 
Hello, I have been following the discussion here. If it is worth anything, I am currently in the Beta program for WoW Cataclysm, and would like to give my thoughts on all of this: . . .

Well, I could not have hoped for a better answer. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a detailed post.
 
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