What is DVD Quality

[clevin]

A few questions for those video experts within the forumn...

I purchased an Apple TV as a DVD replacement. I have hundreds of DVD's and want the ability to watch them on demand with no physical media. I have connected my Apple tv to my Sony Bravia LCD TV via an HDMI cable. I'm streaming video from my iMac and external FW800 Hard Drive through an Airport Extreme (.n) base station.

ATV never meant to be, and can not be, a DVD replacement. with no physical media for your hundreds of DVDs? its simply not possible. ATV is too small for that, not to mention any convertion or compression will lose quality of the graphic, may that be H.264 or DivX.

 

[FleurDuMal]

ATV never meant to be, and can not be, a DVD replacement.

Of course it is. Apple hopes iTMS will replace physical media as a form of distribution.

 

[clevin]

Of course it is. Apple hopes iTMS will replace physical media as a form of distribution.

Im sorry? I don't see that's happening, and I don't see that in Apple's statement, and I don't see that being physically possible.

where did Apple say ATV will be pushed as a DVD replacement? plz show me some sources?

or you actually think

Apple TV is like a DVD player for the Internet age—providing an easy and fun way to play all your favorite iTunes content from your PC or Mac on your widescreen TV

is a statement for DVD replacement? if so, Im sorry, that doesn't sound like a DVD replacement statement for me.

When u rent a DVD from neflix or blockbuster, or buy one from anywhere, what u gonna do? rip it and put it in ur 40GB ATV? how much time do u need to rip a DVD? (3 hours for a whole process for one H.264 movie?) how many movies can that hold(let it be 1400kbps, still NOT DVD quality, result in a size of 1.5G, ATV can hole 20? 25? movies)? and what quality would that be(near DVD is NOT DVD quality)? and would that be legal(if u only rent it)?

 

[FleurDuMal]

Im sorry? I don't see that's happening, and I don't see that in Apple's statement, and I don't see that being physically possible.

where did Apple say ATV will be pushed as a DVD replacement? plz show me some sources?

That's a rather obtuse way of seeing it. I would say that given they are selling movies over iTMS suggests they might just want people to buy movies over iTMS instead of buying it on DVD. It's not exactly a tenuous issue I'm afraid. Saying they don't expect digital distribution to take over from DVD's is like saying the CD never intended to replace vinyl/tapes.

 

[clevin]

That's a rather obtuse way of seeing it. I would say that given they are selling movies over iTMS suggests they might just want people to buy movies over iTMS instead of buying it on DVD. It's not exactly a tenuous issue I'm afraid. Saying they don't expect digital distribution to take over from DVD's is like saying the CD never intended to replace vinyl/tapes.

well, when comparing the historical similarities, don't forget the difference between them.

I do understand ITMS is pushing movies, but compare ITMS to retail store or renting company, I don't have that high hope (Im sure some ppl do), also

think about the ITMS movie's quality, 480p, thats FAR AWAY from DVD quality.

Also, OP was obviously concerned about his DVD collections, not abandon them and buy limited titles from ITMS.

 

[FleurDuMal]

well, when comparing the historical similarities, don't forget the difference between them.

I do understand ITMS is pushing movies, but compare ITMS to retail store or renting company, I don't have that high hope (Im sure some ppl do), also

think about the ITMS movie's quality, 480p, thats FAR AWAY from DVD quality.

Also, OP was obviously concerned about his DVD collections, not abandon them and buy limited titles from ITMS.

I never said Apple had got their strategy right. I'm just saying that it's clearly their strategy to do away with physical media.

 

[gkarris]

That's a rather obtuse way of seeing it. I would say that given they are selling movies over iTMS suggests they might just want people to buy movies over iTMS instead of buying it on DVD. It's not exactly a tenuous issue I'm afraid. Saying they don't expect digital distribution to take over from DVD's is like saying the CD never intended to replace vinyl/tapes.

How can this be?

I only have a 768K DSL connection - shows take a while to download.

I usually pay only $4 - $10 for used or on sale DVD's, and $20 - $35 for entire seasons of TV shows, much less than what iTunes charges for "computer files"...

 

[jpfisher]

No matter what settings you are using to rip your DVDs, you have to bear in mind that you are compressing video that's already been compressed. If you had an uncompressed master to work with and create an H264 file from, then yes, you could get it looking better than a comporable DVD (assuming that H264 can create better results than MPEG-2 at the same compression rate).

However, you should understand that professional DVD transfers are not done by running a video file through a simple software algorithm. I won't pretend to understand the intricacies of the process, but a lot of decisions are made on a shot by shot basis as to what bit rate to apply, what settings to tweak, etc etc etc.

For most of us, a DVD rip at a good bitrate will look perfectly acceptable when streamed to the ATV or whatever media extender you're using; however, a side by side comparison is always going to show its shortcomings.

 

[Chiggs]

To those questioning using the Apple TV as a DVD replacement...

95% of my viewing is based on watching movies from my library of DVD's (including TV shows.) I purchase 40-50 DVD's per year but almost never rent. There are so many DVD's available for purchase at $10-15 in my area and with a young daughter, I can't be sure I'm going to be able to watch a DVD exactly when planned so I find with rentals, I usually end up paying $10 or so anyway because of a late fee so I stick with buying. Even the latest new releases are available in this price range from my local video stores 2-3 weeks after they come out as the stores clear out some of their rental copies.

With the success of streaming video from the large external HD connected to my iMac, I've decided not to bother transfering video files to my Apple TV. Instead, I'm focusing on putting my pictures of the hard drive because those can't (yet) be streamed.

So - with the exception of a few TV Show DVD's that are not looking that great, I have no use for my DVD player...

 

[BlackBox]

DVD quality

I've been trying out different bitrates and now settled at 3500mbps with H.264, 160 audio. I think the IQ is pretty close to DVD quality.

Handbrake settings:
Codec: H.264 Main
Video Bitrate: 3500kbps
Audio Bitrate: 160kbps
Resolution: Original
Framerate: Original

According to the Apple TV spec., Max bitrates is 5Mbps for H.264 video.
Have anyone try 4-5Mbps?

 

[clevin]

To those questioning using the Apple TV as a DVD replacement...

95% of my viewing is based on watching movies from my library of DVD's (including TV shows.) I purchase 40-50 DVD's per year but almost never rent. There are so many DVD's available for purchase at $10-15 in my area and with a young daughter, I can't be sure I'm going to be able to watch a DVD exactly when planned so I find with rentals, I usually end up paying $10 or so anyway because of a late fee so I stick with buying. Even the latest new releases are available in this price range from my local video stores 2-3 weeks after they come out as the stores clear out some of their rental copies.

With the success of streaming video from the large external HD connected to my iMac, I've decided not to bother transfering video files to my Apple TV. Instead, I'm focusing on putting my pictures of the hard drive because those can't (yet) be streamed.

So - with the exception of a few TV Show DVD's that are not looking that great, I have no use for my DVD player...

I would suggest u buy a mac mini as DVD replacement, u can put DVD disk in, and hook up mini to your TV and play it just like a DVD player.
The problem with ATV is that You will need HUGE harddrive, and HUGE amount of time to convert your hundreds of DVDs. I just don't feel it worth it(since u can't just throw ur DVD away anyway, remember any compression process will lose quality). Also, when you have a iTunes Movie data base of 500GB, I m not really sure if you will be satisfied with the performance of ATV.

As somebody mentioned above, I think Apple is expecting user to download movie more from ITMS, rather than rip their own DVDs into iTunes.

 

[ijimk]

I've been trying out different bitrates and now settled at 3500mbps with H.264, 160 audio. I think the IQ is pretty close to DVD quality.

Handbrake settings:
Codec: H.264 Main
Video Bitrate: 3500kbps
Audio Bitrate: 160kbps
Resolution: Original
Framerate: Original

According to the Apple TV spec., Max bitrates is 5Mbps for H.264 video.
Have anyone try 4-5Mbps?

what is your typical file size per movie? Say for a 90 min film?

 

[BlackBox]

DVD Quality

what is your typical file size per movie? Say for a 90 min film?

For a typical 2hrs movie, it clocks in about 3Gig. You can figure out from there.

Btw, I discovered that MediaFork does the encoding 20-30% faster!

Now, I am running both Handbrake and Mediafork at the same time, so I can encode 2 movies at a time, while I am sleeping!

 

[Socalrunner951]

I'm gonna go pick up and Apple TV today. So far I'm ripping movies with mactheripper then converting it with visualhub. I put the slider as go nuts and check ipod/TV Screen and check h.264 encoding. The quality looks very good on my computer in full screen mode. I'm going to try checking Apple TV instead of iPod/TV Screen.

 

[GlynJones]

I've been trying out different bitrates and now settled at 3500mbps with H.264, 160 audio. I think the IQ is pretty close to DVD quality.

Handbrake settings:
Codec: H.264 Main
Video Bitrate: 3500kbps
Audio Bitrate: 160kbps
Resolution: Original
Framerate: Original

According to the Apple TV spec., Max bitrates is 5Mbps for H.264 video.
Have anyone try 4-5Mbps?

Tried these setting last night and the quality was very good albeit very slow even on a 24" intel iMac. I was doing other things at the same time so i probably crippled the performace.

With these setting is it best to do a one pass or two pass encoding because if I can get away with one pass then that would speed things up greatly.

 

[zyuzin4]

I would suggest u buy a mac mini as DVD replacement, u can put DVD disk in, and hook up mini to your TV and play it just like a DVD player.
The problem with ATV is that You will need HUGE harddrive, and HUGE amount of time to convert your hundreds of DVDs. I just don't feel it worth it(since u can't just throw ur DVD away anyway, remember any compression process will lose quality). Also, when you have a iTunes Movie data base of 500GB, I m not really sure if you will be satisfied with the performance of ATV.

As somebody mentioned above, I think Apple is expecting user to download movie more from ITMS, rather than rip their own DVDs into iTunes.

He is streaming his movies from the iMac so the size of the ATV hard drive does not matter

 

[SPinc33]

On the question of TV as a DVD player replacement...

I think we can learn alot from the CD vs. MP3 debate. A few years ago, "early adopters" were excited about the ability to electronically transfer and store music, although it was a bit less than CD quality. Now, the large majority don't even know (or care, up to a certain point) that their AAC/MP3 files are a lower quality than CDs. Audiophiles can and will always worry about this. MP3s were not "intended" to be a CD replacement per se, but it seems to be moving in that direction as technology advances.

With movies, the technology isn't there yet (for the masses). Hard drive limitations for most, encoding quality, etc still need to be improved before digital movies will really overtake DVDs. Again, I don't think TV is intended to be a DVD replacement, but as the technology improves and we all have 2TB harddrives, "N" wireless, and better software, we will definitely see a shift in DVD sales as a result. The ATV is just a piece of the puzzle in the inevitable move towards digital media.