Good luck. Designers are notoriously secretive about divulging any information with regards to their rates.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
What is minimum fee to charge if customer abandons a project
- Thread starter nicrose
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Good luck. Designers are notoriously secretive about divulging any information with regards to their rates.
Easiest way to work out your pricing: calculate what you'd like to earn in a year. Then decide how many days a year you want/can reasonably expect to work. Don't forget that these will be gross earnings and you'll get taxed on them.
Divide the first number by the second, and charge in units no smaller than half a day. Physical costs are extra - discs; hard copy proofs; that sort of thing.
You need to agree a structure for the work before commencing as well, ie:
You estimate the job at one day and quote £500 for one rough visual from the brief, and one set of amends, plus £10 for a proof of the finished art and a disk to the printers.
The customer wants a second set of amends, you sting 'em £250 for another half day.
On the other hand, if you've underestimated the time for the job, then that's a cost you'll have to swallow if you overrun ...
Don't be afraid to put a clock on top of your computer to remind you how much time you're spending on the job, and don't be afraid to stop when the paid time is up, otherwise you're effectively short-changing yourself.
Hope that makes some sense ...
Cheers
Jim
Good luck. Designers are notoriously secretive about divulging any information with regards to their rates.
Yes... my freelance rates need to keep me in the luxury I've become accustomed to.
Still, I get people coming back time and time again, so they must be masochists.
It was done, Cash the check
From your reply, It was done, Cash the check & Re-Negotiate for the other work he wants done at a reasonable rate for yourself this time BTW,
Cheap, picky clients that bust your balls are the ones you can get by without.
Make pro looking spec pices & keep networking till you find the preferred
Nice, Reasonable Clients that pay 50-60 hr. Never short change yourself,
you make it harder for pros & yourself to make a decent wage, the client won't respect you or your work. 50.00 for a poster is a joke. If you spent a day or two messing with it, you may have
12 hours into it or about 4.00 hr
10 hours into it or about 5.00 hr
8 hours into it or about 6.00 hr
5 hours into it or about 10.00 hr
I make 60+ an hour, you're shooting yourself in the foot.
If you don't have confidence in your portfolio polish it up.
Don't short yourself over it.
From your reply, It was done, Cash the check & Re-Negotiate for the other work he wants done at a reasonable rate for yourself this time BTW,
Cheap, picky clients that bust your balls are the ones you can get by without.
Make pro looking spec pices & keep networking till you find the preferred
Nice, Reasonable Clients that pay 50-60 hr. Never short change yourself,
you make it harder for pros & yourself to make a decent wage, the client won't respect you or your work. 50.00 for a poster is a joke. If you spent a day or two messing with it, you may have
12 hours into it or about 4.00 hr
10 hours into it or about 5.00 hr
8 hours into it or about 6.00 hr
5 hours into it or about 10.00 hr
I make 60+ an hour, you're shooting yourself in the foot.
If you don't have confidence in your portfolio polish it up.
Don't short yourself over it.
I'm Not a NEWBIE Anymore!!
I just noticed, I'm Not a NEWBIE Anymore!!
It fees good to know i am a regular member.
thanks for the shared knowledge!
When can I create a thead?
I just noticed, I'm Not a NEWBIE Anymore!!
It fees good to know i am a regular member.
thanks for the shared knowledge!
When can I create a thead?
I agree you need to develop your portfolio so be honest with the guy- tell him you are cutting him deals- don't know how long you can afford to do that but he should enjoy it while it lasts- be upfront- and tell him how much time you put into it and you would like to make sure he is feeling like he is treated fair and come up with a dollar amount. Then you need to develop a plan for your own cancellation policy- maybe this process can help you develop it. Approaching things like this (as partners) can help you in the long run in many situations. Then there are some where the other is an A@* and just wants it cheap and never makes up their mind- then you just need to bill him, get your check and RUN LIKE HELL and find a new client to use as a portfolio builder.
Hey, at least you have one product already for your portfolio.
I like the earlier advice- strike it up to a learning experience.
Hey, at least you have one product already for your portfolio.
I like the earlier advice- strike it up to a learning experience.
When you are calculating how much you will earn in a year (math here) = your hourly rate; take into account that if you are working full time, the most that you will be able to bill in a year is about 1,000 hours, 1,200 hours if you get some large contracts.
The rest of the time you will be h#11ishly busy advertising for new business, doing pitches and presentations, accounting, paperwork, doing collections on late paying customers, keeping your computer running, etc etc which you will not get paid for.
The rest of the time you will be h#11ishly busy advertising for new business, doing pitches and presentations, accounting, paperwork, doing collections on late paying customers, keeping your computer running, etc etc which you will not get paid for.
Selling on print is where most of the money comes from
A 30 - 40% markup on print prices will make up a lot of your income.
Contract wise, you don't have to make them sit down and sign anything - just have a list of all your terms and conditions on the back of your letterhead with a clause that states that a request for work will be seen as an acceptance of the terms listed.
A 30 - 40% markup on print prices will make up a lot of your income.
Contract wise, you don't have to make them sit down and sign anything - just have a list of all your terms and conditions on the back of your letterhead with a clause that states that a request for work will be seen as an acceptance of the terms listed.
But you'll still need a contract (which they will have to sign) that outlines deliverables and costings for the project, terms and conditions most definitely will not suffice on a per project basis.
The only time it's not worth going to the expense of drawing up an effective and binding contract is when the budget of the project is lower than that of preparing the contract.
In which case you require an as detailed as possible statement of works that is explicit in every detail as to what is expected of the project that is agreed and signed upon by both designer and client.
Still, I get people coming back time and time again, so they must be masochists.
Too much information...
what you choose to do outside of design is completely up to you... Do you do half hour appointments??? *Grins*
Everything works through email nowadays though. Half the time you don't even meet the client, so there's no way to make them sign anything?
Email transcripts seem to hold up in court, so I would say send an email with the terms and conditions, and ask the client to reply saying "I accept" or some such. At least you've got a paper trail (well, figuratively).
I e-mail terms & approvals all the time!
I e-mail terms & approvals all the time!
Works like a charm, Just give quantity info, price, & ask client to e-mail back with Ok, or OK with changes, make cahnges & re-send till ok no changes.
Also, point out how much it was for said changes if any.
& Have them re-send with approval.
it's rock solid.
I e-mail terms & approvals all the time!
Works like a charm, Just give quantity info, price, & ask client to e-mail back with Ok, or OK with changes, make cahnges & re-send till ok no changes.
Also, point out how much it was for said changes if any.
& Have them re-send with approval.
it's rock solid.
Of course there is.
If you don't actually physically meet your client, once you've agreed on the contents of a contract (or a statement of works), print out a couple of copies, sign both and send them to the client for their authorisation, the client then signs both returning one and keeping one. You can fax or email the document too of course, but you might find that a client will often require a real ink signature.
A signed and binding contract is there to protect both parties in the event of any disagreement.
notjustjay said:
The medium is not the problem here.
It's the content and whether it is mutually agreed upon and preferably legal binding.
Terms and conditions are not a replacement for a mutually agreeable contract (or statement of works) as they deal solely with one party, in this case the designer.
It does not cover the specifics and deliverables of a project because these have to be mutually agreed upon on a per project basis and then duly signed to render it binding, otherwise in essence it simply is not worth the paper it is printed on.
True story. I'm working for this multi-million web design company. We get a contract with a major Cable ISP for $100,000 to make an online portal. We do designs, mockups, storyboards, etc.
Two months later the ISP changes their mind and says they're not going to do a portal or pay us anything for the work we've done.
Turns out our salesperson never got a signature on the contract. Our company's out all the work we've done - probably at least $30,000 of billable hours, so that's maybe $20,000 in costs.
I was a manager at that company, and one of the many projects I was managing was programming the login page for the portal - perhaps a two day job, really simple stuff. Inside my desk was a signed FSD (functional specifications document) from the client. That turned out to be the only piece of paper in the company with a signature from them.
A week earlier, under pressure from both the client and my colleagues to start the programming, I had written up a three page document with some basic screen shots, and had taken it to the clients office, telling him I couldn't get started unless I had a signature. I had sat in the lobby for a while until he was between meetings and he had finally signed it and told me to move forward. He didn't seem real happy about me being there.
The Director met with the client right after the cancellation and showed them the signed FSD, and the client agreed to pay us $30,000 for our previous work.
Moral of the story: No matter what the perceived pressure from the client, your boss, or anyone else, you personally must get some kind of written agreement before you start work. Otherwise you're working for free.
Two months later the ISP changes their mind and says they're not going to do a portal or pay us anything for the work we've done.
Turns out our salesperson never got a signature on the contract. Our company's out all the work we've done - probably at least $30,000 of billable hours, so that's maybe $20,000 in costs.
I was a manager at that company, and one of the many projects I was managing was programming the login page for the portal - perhaps a two day job, really simple stuff. Inside my desk was a signed FSD (functional specifications document) from the client. That turned out to be the only piece of paper in the company with a signature from them.
A week earlier, under pressure from both the client and my colleagues to start the programming, I had written up a three page document with some basic screen shots, and had taken it to the clients office, telling him I couldn't get started unless I had a signature. I had sat in the lobby for a while until he was between meetings and he had finally signed it and told me to move forward. He didn't seem real happy about me being there.
The Director met with the client right after the cancellation and showed them the signed FSD, and the client agreed to pay us $30,000 for our previous work.
Moral of the story: No matter what the perceived pressure from the client, your boss, or anyone else, you personally must get some kind of written agreement before you start work. Otherwise you're working for free.
stay ahead
I'm an architect, and I learned long ago that's best to stay ahead of the client as in regard to money. Define the work - get 25% retainer - schedule progress payments so that the client is basically paying for work to be done.....and, most improtant have two clauses in the contract -
* work will be halted if payment for invoice is not received within 7 days
* contract can be termintated, by written notice
I'm an architect, and I learned long ago that's best to stay ahead of the client as in regard to money. Define the work - get 25% retainer - schedule progress payments so that the client is basically paying for work to be done.....and, most improtant have two clauses in the contract -
* work will be halted if payment for invoice is not received within 7 days
* contract can be termintated, by written notice