MP 7,1 What must Apple include in a new Mac Pro that we can’t live without?

[rondocap]

We are all excited and nervous about the next Mac Pro- could have some announcement soon.

what do you feel like it should have and why? Apple silicon version

For me, pcie slots are still essential

Unless the GPU is at least on the level of a w6800x Duo, some type of MPX support too

Ram I’m ok with a max well under the fire t Mac pro, but still 256 at least would be nice


The m1 MacBook Pro certainly indicates a positive direction that could reveal some stellar performance in a Big Mac Pro offering.

What do you guys think?

 

[Boil]

We are all excited and nervous about the next Mac Pro- could have some announcement soon.

I would expect WWDC this year at the earliest, and most likely a preview with actual availability at the end of 2022...

what do you feel like it should have and why? Apple silicon version

For me, pcie slots are still essential

Apple could offer two to four PCIe slots, mainly for the audio folks; they could also offer a singular PCIe Gen4 (maybe even Gen5) x16 edge connector, for use with an optional PCIe expansion chassis...

Unless the GPU is at least on the level of a w6800x Duo, some type of MPX support too

Apple silicon GPUs are part of the SoCs now, no more discrete GPUs, so no need for MPX slots...

Ram I’m ok with a max well under the fire t Mac pro, but still 256 at least would be nice

I am hoping Apple will be the first with LPDDR5X:

• 64GB per chip maximum density
• pin-compatible with LPDDR5
• 33% faster
• 20% less power usage

This would allow:

• Single SoC = 256GB RAM / 500GB/s UMA
• Dual SoC = 512GB RAM / 1TB/s UMA
• Quad SoC = 1TB RAM / 2TB/s UMA

What do you guys think?

I look forward to the new ASi Mac Pro Cube...!

 

[DrEGPU]

Unless Apple is making huge exponential leaps in GPU power, any new Mac Pro is going to require pcie expansion slots to add more processing power. This is especially true of GPGPU tasks and applications. Otherwise, the “pro” machine will be severely limiting for some use cases. We’re not all in the audio/visual industry. Even for the A/V people, adding in more Apple SoC (modified, of course) processing power into the pcie slots could be useful. Kind of like the afterburner card, but with M2(?) silicon on it instead.

 

[MarkC426]

As mentioned already, at least a couple of pcie slots.
Additional internal storage options.
Upgradeable Ram (having options of Soc ram 64/128/256 etc is just too expensive at time of purchase).

MacPro NEEDS to be upgradeable over time, otherwise it's just a Mac Mini with go faster stripes.

 

[Adarna]

Intel chips?

 

[Pakaku]

Instead of a SoC, maybe the CPU should remain separate and upgradable. If pros need to upgrade their computers, then it should extend to every part that is normally upgradable in a regular PC. SoC only seems to makes sense IMO in a compact form factor, like a laptop or tablet, and there is more than enough room in a PC form factor for just a regular processor.

 

[richinaus]

I have a gut feeling that this Mac Pro is going to be the cube resurrected. There are going to be some disappointed people but also happy people [like myself and @Boil ].

If they can double the current MBP M1 Max speeds [CPU + GPU], it will be more than enough for my studio for the next 3 years.

GPU speed is the important factor to me over anything else.

 

[Analog Kid]

I have a gut feeling that this Mac Pro is going to be the cube resurrected.

This would make me really happy as well. I loved the 2013 trashcan. It doesn’t need the be upgradable for me in any way— I’d spec it for my needs and use it for years before replacing the whole system (except the display). Thunderbolt gives me the high bandwidth expansion I‘d want.

Give me a good compute appliance without the space and cost sacrifice of empty slots.

 

[Grumply]

The current 32-core GPU on the M1 Max is supposed to have something like 10 Teraflops of processing power - which is very respectible. If they're doubling or quadrupling that processing power for a larger machine, then I'd expect it to offer perfectly competitive performance for most tasks.

PCI slots for adding onboard NVME storage cards, and Video I/O cards are the features I'd consider most important.

If they return to the non-expandiblity and resultant cabling nightmares of the 6,1 trashcan, it would be a horrible step backwards.

 

[jasonmvp]

The current 32-core GPU on the M1 Max is supposed to have something like 10 Teraflops of processing power - which is very respectible. If they're doubling or quadrupling that processing power for a larger machine, then I'd expect it to offer perfectly competitive performance for most tasks.

As we've repeatedly said in this forum, and I think most agree: the SoC's GPU right now isn't the issue. It's what do we do when the next SoC's GPU is significantly more powerful and we have workloads that can take advantage? We can't upgrade, so: we throw the entire Mac Pro out and buy a new one? That's silly and unfortunate and a huge waste of money.

I do agree with others that a bank of PCI-E slots is of utmost necessity. Not one or two, but several.

 

[MarkC426]

We can't upgrade, so: we throw the entire Mac Pro out and buy a new one? That's silly and unfortunate and a huge waste of money.

And also doesn't seem very environmentally sound.....

 

[4wdwrx]

At the end of the day, upgrading a part or the whole unit are all a waste. If do not want to waste, ideally, one should use an item to the ground before moving to something new.

The iMac Pro was a nice package and if Apple refreshed it every three years, it would be a good upgrade path. The old one can be sold or donated for repurposed usage to schools, non-profit organizations, third world countries, or just someone that needs a computer.

An upgradable system like the Mac Pro requires a modular design that needs larger quantity and fabrication of silicon for the PCBs, extra connectors, redundant components compared to a single PCB like the iMac, Mac mini, Macbook. The specialized components are more expensive, like the MPX graphics cards ($6k for a 6900!). Since it is specialized, there is very little use for the components when they are replaced. Very few people have use for the Pro 580 MPX and probably none as second hand.

As someone who have grew up with building towers, "upgradeable" really means changing everything inside leaving the case or the power supply (if is not already near EOL). Even when is time to "upgrade", just end up getting a new case.

At least with PC parts, they are standard and easier to repurpose. But when parts are removed, most of the time they are left as ewaste.

 

[jasonmvp]

Since it is specialized, there is very little use for the components when they are replaced. Very few people have use for the Pro 580 MPX and probably none as second hand.

I think most of the premises in your post are incorrect and invalid, but this is the one I'll quote. You believe there is very little use for the replaced parts. That's not been my personal experience thus far. For instance when I upgraded to the W6800X Duo card, I sold my OEM MPX module in nearly no time at all. Folks will buy the previous generation GPUs, specially if you'd specced out an up-rated version.

As for your PC/tower comment: again very wrong from my own experience. I'd had the same motherboard since summer, 2017(!) I've swapped the CPU once, and the GPUs twice, I think (might be three times). All in the same tower, and all with the same system otherwise.

Modularity is a big deal. And having swapping GPUs in the AS Mac Pro will be very welcome. It just doesn't sound like it'll be possible.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I wouldn't worry about it, at least this time around. Apple is suppose to be refreshing the Intel Mac Pro at least one more time. So if the Apple Silicon version doesn't have what you want then don't buy it.

I don't think it will have PCIe slots or much of anything that's upgradeable, but it's hard to say. Apple did say the Mac Pro is modular, so maybe it will have some kind of modularity. In any case, it will be a lot more powerful than a Mac mini. I'd welcome another 6,1 style Mac Pro that's small and fits on the desk top, but I think they should keep the big one around too. They could name them something different, but they probably won't (e.g. Mac & Mac Pro, Mac Pro & Mac Pro Classic, Mac Pro Desktop & Mac Pro Tower (and Rack), Mac Pro lite & Mac Pro standard, Mac Pro compact & Mac Pro full size, Mac Pro cube & Mac Pro rectangle, Mac Pro RB (recycle bin) & Mac Pro CG (cheese grater), etc).

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Mac Pro and Mac Pro Max

I think if they make it modular (which I highly doubt), they will use custom connectors (not PCI-E) and custom MPX modules with AS in them.

OTOH, even the Trashcan (which I loved) had upgradeable RAM and user replaceable parts, so there’s hope

 

[edanuff]

The upgradability question is really hard to predict. Everything around card-based expansion seems very low likelihood because of the architecture and the economics. I think the main thing I‘d look for is multiple DisplayPort streams to be able to run at least 3 4K/5K/8K monitors without any of the janky reusing of the HDMI port like the Mini did. 6 USB-C Thunderbolt ports with the ability to run 3 DisplayPort displays like the 6,1 would be great.

 

[DrEGPU]

The upgradability question is really hard to predict. Everything around card-based expansion seems very low likelihood because of the architecture and the economics. I think the main thing I‘d look for is multiple DisplayPort streams to be able to run at least 3 4K/5K/8K monitors without any of the janky reusing of the HDMI port like the Mini did. 6 USB-C Thunderbolt ports with the ability to run 3 DisplayPort displays like the 6,1 would be great.

That’s what the modularity is good for. The pcie standard is backwards compatible. You could could put newer components (to a degree) into older machines. This is why the 2010-2012 Mac Pros were great. They could accept advanced GPU’s that still made them relevant for rendering and multi display output. A 2010 Mac Pro can accept many (not all) modern GPU’s which would make it a much better rendering machine than the 2013 trash can. A non-upgradeable Mac Pro successor would be a repeat of that mistake.

 

[AlphaCentauri]

I agree fully in regards of GPU intensive tasks. However, for home or semi-pro recording studios (not based on Pro Tools HDX cards) quiet, powerful Mac Pro with upgradeable CPU and RAM (not necessarily GPU) is perfect. The Trashcan was close to be ideal for this purpose.

I think it is not possible to please both groups of people, those who want AS equivalent of 2019 Mac Pro and those who want modernised 2013 Mac Pro (or return of Mac Cube) with just one model of 2022 Mac Pro, therefore I hope there will be two of them:

- AS equivalent of 2019 Mac Pro with slots, etc.
- small, quiet Mac Pro mini (or Mac mini Pro)

One can dream…

 

[AndreeOnline]

Predictions:

• Small form factor, as in 'baby Mac Pro'.
• Partly locked down, notably in areas users would like it to be modular like CPU+GPU. Apple Silicon is not something you upgrade yourself. No surprises here.
• Modularity for niche functionality: PCIe cards for audio and networking folks, and others.
• great computer and performance for MANY users, but not best in class for ALL users.
• relatively good price/performance compared to 'traditional' Mac Pros, unless YOUR checkbox isn't ticked (some user groups will likely be left out: dual Duo grunt won't be possible)
• modularity focused on being able to configure Mac Pro at purchase or just after. Not meant to be a 'shell' that you can refill every 3 years with new stuff. Just like every other computer they get old and you buy a new one. At least you don't need to throw away your monitor and PCIe cards too.
• just another computer in Apple's lineup. May be a good fit, or may not. Feel free to look at iMac Pro, MacBook Pros, Mac Minis and others....

General advice to lessen mental strain: let go of the notion that this is a "PC case where you swap components in and out as you see fit" as soon as possible and focus in on this new Mac Pros likely strengths instead.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

As someone who have grew up with building towers, "upgradeable" really means changing everything inside leaving the case or the power supply (if is not already near EOL). Even when is time to "upgrade", just end up getting a new case.

Well config choice is on big thing why even more so in an pro workstation not all work loads need lot's of ram.

also STORAGE needs to be on some kind of card / slot as well and not part of the MB.

People may want to have in the box slower hdd's in some workstion settings as well. Also RAID not raid 0 can be an need as well.

Network cards with differnt ports are an thing in the server / workstation setting.

Also some workloads may need more video and others more CPU. Forcing people to buy an high end video chip just to get an more cpu is bad as well say want 256 GB+ ram need to get the dual high end video chip.

Or they force an top CPU just to get more then 512 GB storage.

 

[mattspace]

I agree fully in regards of GPU intensive tasks. However, for home or semi-pro recording studios (not based on Pro Tools HDX cards) quiet, powerful Mac Pro with upgradeable CPU and RAM (not necessarily GPU) is perfect. The Trashcan was close to be ideal for this purpose.

A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the G4 Cube. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.

A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the 2013 Mac Pro. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.

What do we think is going to be the reaction to another compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer?

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Third time lucky?

Times are changing, people are more environmentally aware, energy footprint is important. There is much higher chance for SFF Mac Pro to be successful now than it was in 2013 or before.

At least in audio production, all prosumer audio interfaces are now USB or TB, not PCI-E.

As I said, there should be two Mac Pros: big Mac for people who need slots and internal expansions and Mac mini Pro, for those who don’t.

 

[richinaus]

A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the G4 Cube. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.

A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the 2013 Mac Pro. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.

What do we think is going to be the reaction to another compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer?

They didn’t have control of the CPU and GPU?
I never bought the cube or 2013 Mac, but will definitely buy this compact pro if the specs are as predicted.

My M1 MBP fully maxed is only about 20% off the speed I would be super happy with. So double speed is more than enough for the next 3 years.

 

[deconstruct60]

I wouldn't worry about it, at least this time around. Apple is suppose to be refreshing the Intel Mac Pro at least one more time. So if the Apple Silicon version doesn't have what you want then don't buy it.

Gurman mentioned that a long time ago, but hasn't said much since those reports. Perhaps because the M-series "big chips" generation more clicks and interest in his rumors. Or perhaps canned it (and just plan to coast on the MP 2019). Or it is caught in the Twilight Zone with the W-3300 workstations from Dell/HP/Lenovo.

It would be strange to wait until it was relatively close to when Xeon SP Gen 4 and Eypc Zen 4 launch to update a Mac Pro on Ice Lake Xeon SP foundation ( W-3300) . Side-by-side probably not going to look so good.

 

[Boil]

Gurman mentioned that a long time ago, but hasn't said much since those reports. Perhaps because the M-series "big chips" generation more clicks and interest in his rumors. Or perhaps canned it (and just plan to coast on the MP 2019). Or it is caught in the Twilight Zone with the W-3300 workstations from Dell/HP/Lenovo.

It would be strange to wait until it was relatively close to when Xeon SP Gen 4 and Eypc Zen 4 launch to update a Mac Pro on Ice Lake Xeon SP foundation ( W-3300) . Side-by-side probably not going to look so good.

Would be CRAZY if Apple did a final non-ASi update to the 2019 Intel Mac Pro, but with an Epyc Zen 4 CPU & W7000-series MPX GPUs...! ;^p