macOS What programming language is right for me?

[Catfish_Man]

yg17 i wouldn't say C++ was easy, When ever you first learn pointers it gets complex and confusing.

slooksterPSV what does the function NSlog() do? i have never seen that.

NSLog() is much like printf(). It's pretty much the first thing you learn in Cocoa

 

[slooksterPSV]

Ok I'm tossing in another dime:

I used to play around with BASIC and QBasic at a young age. Once I learned some of that I downloaded and modified programs and tried to learn more.

When I was younger than 12, I downloaded and played around with C++ using Dev-C++ trying the commands that they had. When it said printf("");
That's all I used and played with.

At 12 years old I found a magazine that taught you HTML, I read the article in the book, went online and learned HTML from http://www.pageresource.com/ - after learning HTML I learn a little bit of javascript.

That same year I went out and got a C how to program book and learned some C. I learned some C++ online and from a couple different books.

After that I learned some Visual Basic and made some small apps in Microsoft Word using the Visual Basic Editor

Once I learned some of that, I purchased an OpenGL book (which I wish I could find) and read through most of it and learned how to create objects and learned more about C/C++.

After that I got a Windows 98 Programming book and learned how to make Windowed applications (WHICH IS A PAIN IN THE @$$!!!). Ok you have SOME and I mean SOME control of the objects in Windows, but nothing like you do on Mac OS X. Plus the cost of the tools to develop good Apps on Windows was over $500.

After that book I bought a "C++ for the absolute beginner" (BEST BOOK IN THE WORLD) - search for it on amazon - and learned C++ and EVERYTHING with C++ that I'd need for developing applications. (short long unsigned signed int char bool void etc. etc. data types).

After I finished that book and I mean FINISHED it I bought a DirectX programming book which didn't teach you crap. It assumed you knew how to program in DirectX already.

After directx I purchased a brand new iBook G4 (that was back in October) I had a G3 before that and I first used a mac when I was a sophomore in HS (I just graduated). Programming in Objective-C and then Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X.

Anyways, the point is, I've learned quite a bit and nothing compares to Objective-C and Cocoa, nothing! Also, Mac's have proven more useful for what I do already, and where I want to go in the future.

 

[weg]

Alright guys, I decided to do Python first just because it looked easy. And it is! It is very easy to understand. Thanks guys.

Excellent decision.. though it will be hard for you to move back to primitive languages like C++ and C that don't provide built-in functional features and list comprehension... ;-)

 

[HiRez]

Excellent decision.. though it will be hard for you to move back to primitive languages like C++ and C

Seriously it's true, it would painful having to do that if you get used to Python first! Even Objective-C (while pretty cool) is painful in many ways compared to Python.

 

[rata911]

Depends on what you'd like to do with your aspired programming skills. The following are just excerpts from my personal opinion, don't misunderstand it as a "must-be" guideline or something

Objective C is your choice if you'd like to develop Mac applications but if you're a beginner and want to learn basics first (I mean programming basics that are language-independent) then go for Python. Python is my current "toy" and I really really like it so far. I like the "everything is an object" principle. Cute!
If you'd like to learn a programming language that is or might be useful for future classes in let's say college then I'd personally aim for Java or C/C++.

But in fact it doesn't matter. Just make a choice and everything is good
You can also have a look at "Brain****" (yes that programming "language" exists)

Edit: Oh, the stars above should be substituted with the F-Word...my bad.

 

[macsrockmysocks]

Seriously it's true, it would painful having to do that if you get used to Python first! Even Objective-C (while pretty cool) is painful in many ways compared to Python.

I figured I hate Python now. I just don't see the point in it. Half the things I was doing was: ask the person their name-.......ok easy......- and making mthematical thingys- absolute boredom

 

[HiRez]

I figured I hate Python now. I just don't see the point in it. Half the things I was doing was: ask the person their name-.......ok easy......- and making mthematical thingys- absolute boredom

I have no idea what you just said.

 

[slooksterPSV]

I figured I hate Python now. I just don't see the point in it. Half the things I was doing was: ask the person their name-.......ok easy......- and making mthematical thingys- absolute boredom

Well, you have to start somewhere, so why not ask the user to do basic things. When it teaches you how to ask the persons name, its mainly to show you how to take in Input and output it as well. So I take the users last name as char*, or if I want both names, I take them char* char*. Rather, in C like this:

char *firstName, *lastName;
scanf("%s %s", firstName, lastName);

variables is that lesson, etc. etc. There's always a meaning.

Seriously it's true, it would painful having to do that if you get used to Python first! Even Objective-C (while pretty cool) is painful in many ways compared to Python.

Well... easy languages like that are ok if you're just trying to do something quick, effortlessly, and with few errors. But if you want more control you NEED to use C, C++, C#, or Obj-C.

 

[HiRez]

Well... easy languages like that are ok if you're just trying to do something quick, effortlessly, and with few errors. But if you want more control you NEED to use C, C++, C#, or Obj-C.

I don't agree with you there, I think you have a misunderstanding of what Python is. Python is well-designed and elegant, making it easy to use, yes, but easy as opposed to being "simple". It has quite a lot of advanced features that C, C++, C#, and Objective-C lack, and is more truly object-oriented than any of them (although Ruby takes that even further). I've got a lot more experience with Objective-C than Python, but if I had my choice I'd choose to program in Python. I can do things in 25 lines of Python code that would take over 100 in Objective-C, and much longer time-wise from the typing alone. And that's with it being clear, readable, and maintainable when done. The only thing holding Python back IMO is a native GUI API such as AppKit or a cross-platform one such as JFC/Swing (yes, I know about PyObjC) and a native web API such as Rails.

Anyway, the point is that Python is much more powerful than the toy scripting language many people believe it to be. Having said that, there is a place for C-derived languages, and they have their own advantages, but you really need to take a closer look at so-called scripting languages such as Python and Ruby before you write them off. I once viewed them that way too, but my eyes have been opened.

 

[icetraxx]

I know others might disagree but you might want to think about tinkering around with RealBasic. Its easy to get started with and it can build crossplatform applications. If you use carbon framework calls within your app it will give you all the features of the carbon framework inside MacOS 10 and not just the realbasic supplied features. I find you can build very powerful applications with it.

Hope I've helped,
Chris

 

[slooksterPSV]

I know others might disagree but you might want to think about tinkering around with RealBasic. Its easy to get started with and it can build crossplatform applications. If you use carbon framework calls within your app it will give you all the features of the carbon framework inside MacOS 10 and not just the realbasic supplied features. I find you can build very powerful applications with it.

Hope I've helped,
Chris

RealBasic - BASIC/VisualBasic oriented, its cross platform for Linux, Mac OS 9/X and Windows. It's a very nifty program and there are people who have developed programs with it and they're programs you'd pay $200 for, RealBasic is powerful.

--now
In response to HiRez's statement, I know very little of Python so what you say may hold true, but for what I've seen and used, it doesn't hold true for me. I like having grain finite control with every aspect, and Python may offer that, but I'm used to C oriented languages, so that's why I defend them that much. Now my friend, his boss sent him out to buy some Ruby books to learn Ruby, its gaining large popularity - I haven't used it or seen it - but these languages may have more power than C/C++/C#/Obj-C, but I just haven't used it enough to see it. Now I have seen some pretty awesome games made with Python and that's way nifty, again I'm used to C/C++... and the engines like SDL, OpenGL, Allegro, etc.
BTW this is important: The easier the language is for you, the more power to you. C oriented is easier for me so I have better control and ease of use with it. Others, like HiRez, have better control with so called "script like" languages like Python so that benefits them. --Right now with Objective-C I'm surprised, I've been expecting to input more code than I am, but Cocoa links all of it together so easily that it takes out all the hard work lol.

 

[slooksterPSV]

http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=102257&rl=1
There is chapter 3 of Programming in Objective-C

 

[AlmostThere]

Anyway, the point is that Python is much more powerful than the toy scripting language many people believe it to be. Having said that, there is a place for C-derived languages, and they have their own advantages, but you really need to take a closer look at so-called scripting languages such as Python and Ruby before you write them off. I once viewed them that way too, but my eyes have been opened.

Couldn't agree more. Python (and friends) lead to shorter development time, fewer bugs and less maintenance ... which leads to higher productivity, greater sense of achievement, a big bonus and more holiday ... which makes me

and a native web API such as Rails.

Django? TurboGears? Plone?

And Apple really need to bring the PyObjC guys in house and give us a proper RAD environment.

 

[mig2000]

Code free programming

I am a senior programmer and one of my client is asking me if there is any Object O programming for MAC that is code free. Basically, he has seen some tools like this in PC and like to know if there is any programming language or tool that requires no coding - I am not aware of any but if anyone knows anything, please share.

Thanks
Alex