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Ah, thanks DP User for clarifying. Maybe I will get the Crucial MX500 and then some mount for the optical drive bay and put the system install on there.

Just noticed you have a Mac Pro 3,1. Unlike the 4,1 and 5,1 Mac Pros, your Mac does not have SATA ports in the optical bay. There are, however, two "secret" SATA ports that are available and can be used to connect your SATA SSD. Caveat: reading suggests that you will not be able to boot Windows from these SATA ports. Not an issue unless you use Windows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tvZIyZWDTk

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1328970/

You will probably need something like this for SSD power:

http://www.amazon.com/Molex-15-Powe...7&sr=8-2&keywords=ide+to+sata+power+connector
 
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Thanks DP. I know where those "secret" ports are. I'll keep those in mind. Definitely think I might go with the Velocity x1 card... probably won't do the x2 because I doubt I will be raiding 2 SSD cards. Already found some bunk old hard drive to install mavericks on. How often do you think it would make sense to trim the drive? Once a month? Once a week?
 
Why not just use Trim Enabler? The latest version still works with Yosemite (yeah you have to disable Kernel Extension Signing, I lived with out it for 10 years, I can continue to live with out it in Yosemite). I use it on my 2009 Macbook Pro (17" for life!)
 
Can I activate Trim Enabler only when I need it and then deactivate it the rest of the time? I'm not leaving the kext thing disabled.
 
^^^^Yes you can. I deactivated it yesterday when I installed 10.10.3. When I completed the update I reactivated it. There is a software switch and once switched on or off a restart is required.

Lou
 
Yea, the only reason I was looking at OWC was because of the trim issues and Yosemite but it sounds like that could still be a problem.?

Helpful articles here:

http://forum.crucial.com/t5/tkb/articleprintpage/tkb-id/ssd@tkb/article-id/84


...and here:

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...site/SSD/us/html/whitepaper/whitepaper04.html

...and here:

https://www.cindori.org/trim-vs-garbage-collection/


TLDNR: Garbage Collection can stop your drive grinding to a halt without TRIM and, at least in the case of Crucial drives, it is designed to do that. BUT TRIM is better - and makes garbage collection more efficient, which reduces wear on the drive. Also, you need to make sure that the drive has some idle, powered-on time to give garbage collection time to work (fine in a laptop if the drive stays powered on during sleep - might nit be so good as the system disc for a server)

Without TRIM, the drive doesn't know that deleted files are garbage until the OS gets around to re-using that part of the disc - until then, garbage collection wastes a lot of time and effort moving the junk data around the disc to consolidate free space. TRIM marked data as garbage as soon as you delete it.

Personally, I'd either do without Yosemite for the time being, or disable the security feature (which we've lived without thus far - just don't install iffy drivers) and make sure you keep the recovery instructions handy.
 
My2c - First, after installing an SSD you will wonder why you waited so long. It will transform your experience on this system. Second, I think you said you had a 3,1. If so, paying extra for a SATA-III interface is wasted money. There are a lot of variables in any computing purchase, but since these SATA ports are SATA-II at best, a SATA-III interface will not be any faster. People often misunderstand why SSDs are faster -- they do not exceed the speed limit of the interface. As mentioned here they have near-zero seek and latency times. The actual interface for this type of SSD (drive form factor) is the same, whether HDD or SSD. Finally, there are some good suggestions here about keeping down-rev OSs around to TRIM the drive. But I believe that even an un-TRIM'd drive is still way faster than any HDD. So while optimal performance may suffer, it's still better than the alternative (HDD). One more thing - if you decide to split data and executables on alternate drives, make sure you adjust your back ups accordingly.
 
Second, I think you said you had a 3,1. If so, paying extra for a SATA-III interface is wasted money.

IMO, Not True! On a 3,1 as long as you use slot 2 for the Velocity x2, you will enjoy the benefits of PCIe ver. 2 and full SATA III Speeds on your SSD.

Lou
 
IMO, Not True! On a 3,1 as long as you use slot 2 for the Velocity x2, you will enjoy the benefits of PCIe ver. 2 and full SATA III Speeds on your SSD.

Lou

I agree with this exactly!

----------

People often misunderstand why SSDs are faster -- they do not exceed the speed limit of the interface. As mentioned here they have near-zero seek and latency times. The actual interface for this type of SSD (drive form factor) is the same, whether HDD or SSD.

This is why putting an SATAIII interface card in slot2 will be faster. SATAII is fast enough for ANY magnetic HDD out there, it's not fast enough for a fast SSD. The card raises the bar on your "actual interface". The SSD is already capable if pushing past the SATA2 limit and to the edge of the SATA3 limit. This is why new computing devices are now eliminating SATAx all together and tapping directly into the PCIe interface.
 
Hi, I've got a Mac Pro 3,1. Probably going to get an OWC 480GB SSD so I don't have to deal with Trim and Yosemite. My question is... I'm running an HD with 928gb of stuff on it. Do I just put the system install on the SSD? And then leave the existing drive as is and use it for all my document/photo/music storage? My Applications are 230gb... I could probably widdle that down some. Really don't know here. If I was just doing the system on the SSD I could probably run a smaller drive but shouldnt I be running applications off the SSD?

You might look for instructions how to build your own Fusion Drive. Then your problem what to put where just goes away, because it is done automatically for you.
 
Thoughts on this folks (about the fusion drive?) How does backups work with a fusion drive setup. Also, anyone have any experience with the Seagate Hybrid drives? They are super cheap you can get a 2tb for like 100 bucks. The idea of it makes me think of losing all my data but what do I know. Could make more sense for my aging system. Also, how do I figure out again what size drive I need if I decide to put more than just the system on it? Currently, I don't keep my applications in my user folder as i'm the only user. I keep them in the main applications folder. I have a 1TB drive and am using roughly 921gb now... my user folder is approx 627gb... out of the 921gb about 230gb of that are my applications if that helps. So many options... ugh. Can't decide if I really could do with a 500gb ssd or if I want more of a 1tb or 960gb ssd. Or maybe a couple of those 1-2tb hybrids for $100 a pop.
 
Would you recommend it as a boot drive? You say you are using it as a backup drive but what about backing up from the SSHD. Can you use DiskWarrior on an SSHD? Sorry for dragging this thread out but this is all new to me.
 
^^^^Yes, Yes and Yes. Although I use TechTool Pro.

I use it as a backup to my boot drive. Boots fine. Backs Up just like any other drive. In fact it acts just like any other HDD, it's just faster.

Lou
 
hmmm... intriguing. yesterday i had a plan... now i don't know.

I would just use the EVO 850 250GB $119 and use 2TB HDD for data.

Newer SSDs have better controllers and firmware, so I would never use an older tech "SATA II" unit from OWC or anyone else. Or older Samsung.

If I like "put the pedal to the metal" then of course the PCIe slot #2 and either SATA III Velocity; or, the Samsung XP941. With the Velocity, you can try the Samsung in your drive bays, move it to the Velocity later, and still have four drive bays for standard hard drives.

The Apple/Samsung blades are nice too as a single SSD device can offer 800MB/sec writes (faster than SATA III) and 1000MB/sec read speed.

Softraid.com version 5 you can roll your own SSD + hard drive combo volume and has some of the best storage management features.
 
So what's the verdict on these SSHDs? They don't entirely seem that popular?
 
So what's the verdict on these SSHDs? They don't entirely seem that popular?

Weaksauce.

If you want to go that route, much better to create a Fusion Drive using an SSD and an HD. I set one up on the laptop a few months back; works great so far.

Spinners are for backup only in my professional world.

Seagate does the SSHD a disservice with over-hyping the very real benefits.

I've bought about 10 of the 4TB SSHDs, because in the maligned meme for Safari - "they're snappier".

They're not as fast as SSDs, but for lots of apps they're much faster than standard spinners.

One reason for "snappier" is the 8 GB flash read cache. Lots of frequently read stuff ends up in the SSD cache, and loads at interface speeds.

The second reason involves the 64 MiB or 128 MiB DRAM cache on the disk drive.

With most drives, that cache isn't used for writes - when the OS requests a write, the IO thread is blocked until the data is written to the disk. (This is often called "write-through" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_(computing)#WRITE-THROUGH)

With an SSHD, the drive is always using the cache for writes. (This is usually called "write-back" caching - see the link above.) When the OS requests a write, the drive says "done" as soon as the data is in cache. Eventually, the modified data will be written to the disk. If the OS writes a sector several times, the earlier writes will be ignored - an only the last one will go to the disk.

Write-back caching means that many writes are nearly instantaneous - or at SSD speeds - even on a spinner.

Write-back caching has a huge risk though - if the power fails while the cache data is dirty, then the OS will have an inconsistent view of the file. Enterprise storage has elaborate backup schemes to ensure that the dirty cache is preserved, and will be written when power is restored. This is why drive write-back caching is disabled by default on any reasonable OS. (Even enterprise systems with battery backup for controller write caches will disable drive-level write-back caching by default.)

The Seagate SSHDs have a similar, but simpler and more elegant solution. If the power fails to the drive, the drive motor is turned into a generator (think "hybrid car") and the energy in the spinning platters is used to power logic to copy the dirty DRAM cache to the SSD part of the drive. When power is restored, the dirty data is written to the drive, and the OS sees consistency.

SSHDs aren't as fast as SSDs, but:
  • they're much snappier than spinners for many apps
  • they're priced at or only slightly more than equivalent NAS drives
  • they're much bigger than SSDs
 
SSHDs aren't as fast as SSDs, but:
  • they're much snappier than spinners for many apps
  • they're priced at or only slightly more than equivalent NAS drives
  • they're much bigger than SSDs

Proving that weaksauce is sometimes just what the Dr. ordered!

Great explanation Mr. Shaw. Thanks for providing balance to my off the cuff comment.
 
OK, I think i'm going to forget about the SSHDs. Perhaps for another purpose or machine but will probably spend the extra 100. Now, I've got 12gb of Ram and the ATI 5770... probably make sense to up it to 14 or 16gb... the vid card seems fine for my purposes at the moment not spending the money on the 5870.
 
Recently I wanted to finally install Yosemite fresh. Have had flakiness that could be the result of upgrading the OS several times over the last 6 years, but never a fresh install.

And to be anal, I just ordered a new 500GB crucial drive to replace the 250GB OWC that has worked well for a few years. (I also have a larger data drive for my home volume).

Ever since Yosemite, I have not bothered with Trim, and I haven't seen any issues. My drives aren't full, so the garbage collection seems to work well enough for me.

TRIM, a feature that can't hurt, absent a bug in the drive firmware, and is probably a help on the margins, but I don't see that it is a showstopper unless the drive is nearly full or benchmark software is being run.
 
Ok, so for starters I'm gonna get the Apricorn velocity solo just the x1 and will just use the SSD for the system. Originally I was looking at 500gb-1tb SSD but they are pricey and since I am only going to use it for the boot system maybe a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-75E250B/AM) for under $100 would be goo enough?? :) If so, how would I go about redirecting my user folder to the old spinner drive? And if I do this, and leave the old system on my old spinner drive... will I still be able to boot into that no problem or will it mess everything up... and also, since just the system should supposedly be on the SSD, do I just continue backing up the old spinner and not worry about backing up the system drive?
 
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