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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
I don't think that even though they're in Japan this time, that they're going to have rooms filled with extra cameras and lenses the way they have done in the past, given that this Olympics is being held during the pandemic. In the past it was impressive to see the photos of rows and rows of bodies and lenses ready to be utilized by the pros who needed to be able to quickly get a replacement if something went wrong with their camera body or lens(es).

One thing about those speedy fps and being able to fire off a long sequence of continuous images is, yeah, this eats up the storage in a memory card mighty quickly!!! Most of us don't really want to spend a minute or two shooting a sequence and then later three hours wading through all the images in post-processing!
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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I don't think that even though they're in Japan this time, that they're going to have rooms filled with extra cameras and lenses the way they have done in the past, given that this Olympics is being held during the pandemic. In the past it was impressive to see the photos of rows and rows of bodies and lenses ready to be utilized by the pros who needed to be able to quickly get a replacement if something went wrong with their camera body or lens(es).

One thing about those speedy fps and being able to fire off a long sequence of continuous images is, yeah, this eats up the storage in a memory card mighty quickly!!! Most of us don't really want to spend a minute or two shooting a sequence and then later three hours wading through all the images in post-processing!
Absolutely. I find it frustrating enough when I have 4-5 images to choose from.
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
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I agree. I believe the A1 can do something like 400 consecutive frames at 60FPS. I guess we all know where those pro photographers spend their free time! The idea of hunting through 400 nearly identical frames sounds like a form of torture, though I thought I read somewhere that the next job for AI is to start doing this for us. Eventually, it starts to sound like hunting with a machine gun. I guess when time is money, all those tools have value, but if you're just in it for the technical challenge and accompanying rewards, well, it sorta takes all that away.

Even though I shoot wildlife primarily, hunting through several consecutive images is not much fun. For the times I shoot several in close succession (but still not "bursts"), I cull the missed-focus shots off the top, and then really start looking for photographic interest. Sometimes even then I can feel like I missed what I was hoping for, despite all the photos I took.
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
When one has shot a bunch of images in succession or actual bursts via Continuous High it can be exhilarating at the time but then, yeah, looking at image after image after image which may show only tiny, minute differences from one frame to the next can be an exercise in frustration!
 

AlaskaMoose

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Apr 26, 2008
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A new body would be for advanced features, like larger buffers for burst shooting, more customizable buttons and dials, and maybe a newer/better sensor. I'd say that if you don't really know what a new body would offer, it might be too soon to upgrade. I feel like the body you chose should be suited to your preferred subject matter. I didn't start out shooting nature (and I've had a camera of some kind for about 20 years), but now it's what I shoot the most, and my gear is a reflection of that.

As you've already discovered, better glass can yield noticeable gains in quality and flexibility. A good fast prime will not only offer more quality, but it typically offers much better low-light performance over a kit lens due to a wider aperture. Better lenses is usually a good place to start, so it's good to see that's what you're doing now.
Your answers to the OP are spot on. That's why I mentioned that there are plenty of Canon lenses and bodies to explore before switching to mirrorless. Mirrorless may be the future, but the late professional DSLR cameras (6D, 5D4, all the way to the 1dx III) have very advanced features and sensors already. I am still using the very old Canon 7D for wildlife photography, and the even older 5DII for taking photos of the Auroras. Yes, I also have the R6, but if the Canon 1Dx III SLR-an over $6,000.00 camera- would have been cheaper, or if Canon would have introduced a new 5D Mark 5 to replace the D4, I would not have purchased a mirrorless camera.

I am very happy with the R6, and also with all the Canon EF L lenses that I also use with the other two bodies. The EF lenses work perfectly "adapted" to the R6. The same with a Tokina SWA for FF canon cameras. I use this lens for taking photos of the Auroras, and the occasional landscape shots.
 
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bunnspecial

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May 3, 2014
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When one has shot a bunch of images in succession or actual bursts via Continuous High it can be exhilarating at the time but then, yeah, looking at image after image after image which may show only tiny, minute differences from one frame to the next can be an exercise in frustration!

At least from what I've seen, though, and doing at lower frame rates(~10fps), even in a similar sequence it's funny how one can pop out and you say "that's the one!" Of course that's not always the case, and sometimes you can see where you missed a great shot in the delay. That's why anticipation and timing is still key even if you can machine gun.

Even my humble, now ancient D3s will keep going as long as I hold the shutter button down(it can do 11fps with AF/AE lock, or 9FPS without). I think I have it fixed at 100 releases, but never come close to that. It's funny, though, how people not use to a camera that can burst like that get a shock when they try to use it. I can do a single frame with it set to 9fps(although keep it set to single when not intending to do bursts since generally even a bunch of photos in rapid succession I can manage with discrete shutter presses. Even someone use to a consumer grade DSLR, though, often doesn't realize first of all just how fast a high end body paired with high end glass will focus, and then how little lag and just how fast a high end body runs. I have to be SUPER careful with my F5 set to anything other than single since I've had people easily burn a half dozen frames of film without realizing it.

To answer the OPs question, though-I have to agree with a lot of the sentiment here. If you find something lacking in your body now, look for an upgrade(I have a parallel thread running here now about options for upgrading my current main camera). If you can't point out something you'd like better, stay where you are.

My first DSLR was a Rebel XS(or maybe XT?). My selection of compatible lenses was limited since everything I had up to that point had been Canon FD mount. I was considering upgrading the body because I was disappointed with its detail rendering, but instead first put my money towards what I'd say is a "staple" lens for me in any kit-a 100mm macro. That was an eye opener to something I'd always know but needed to be reminded of-glass quality is critical. I found myself plenty happy with what I was getting. Now with some more DSLR shooting experience under my belt and realizing that yes, there is a world past ISO 400 :) (that's what I'd call a practical limit on film-it's pretty crummy past there), if I went back to that first DSLR I'd be unhappy with its high ISO performance. Also, that was my first AF camera, and now that I've experienced really, really good AF in a higher end body(especially attached to higher end glass, which makes a big difference also in focus) I'd find it difficult to use. Even if you're mostly a single point, static subject shooter, the difference in speed, lack of "hunting", and ability to actually lock focus in more difficult situation becomes addicting. If you start throwing any movement into it, modern focus tracking is amazing on higher end bodies.

Also, I'd always had a top LCD, and even though I got by without it I still missed it and am glad now that the cameras I use have them. My Df has a wimpy 2-line affair, but it still gives me thinks like the battery charge and some other stuff at a glance. It's also less relevant since a lot of what the top LCD would normally show you is laid out plain as day in the physical dials.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
I have my A7R IV usually set to Continuous High so that when the opportunity arises I can fire off a bunch of frames quickly if there is some action going on, but over time I have learned to be gentle with the finger on the shutter release so that I can keep the setting at Continuous High but not always actually fire off a sequence when it's not needed. That way when I'm out walking around on the boardwalk I can shoot a flower or two and then quickly move to faster shooting when a nearby squirrel is scampering up a tree or when I spot Alfred or some geese doing something interesting out in the lake.

When I'm setting up in the house to shoot a macro or tabletop of some sort then no need for Continuous High, of course, and I switch to Single Frame and that works just fine for that purpose.

Modern digital cameras are remarkable, aren't they, with the technology behind them and installed in them as part of their DNA as we stand there holding one and pointing it at the subject of choice.... Definitely a different experience than photography was forty or fifty years ago!
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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Sod off
I've been looking for feedback on the mirrorless camera systems myself.

I am just getting back into shooting more, and I hadn't realized that "the DSLR is dead" until I started shopping for a new body. I have a nice old Canon F1 (for occasional dabbles with film) and an ancient Rebel XT with a decent collection of FD and EF lenses plus one EF-S 55-250 IS zoom. I am mostly shooting low-light, wide angle and macro at the moment and I think a full-frame camera would be the right move as a major upgrade on the the poor old Rebel XT.

It does sound like manufacturers are already plotting out the retirement of the DSLR...but I'm not ready for Canon to sell me a whole new 'ecosystem' of products that are incompatible with what I have and discarding all my glass or running adapters. So while I recognize the benefits of the mirrorless cameras I think I am going to remain committed to the DSLR and EF lenses. I'm not a pro or even a 'serious' amateur so I'd prefer to keep as much of my existing gear as I can.

It would be nice if Canon released one more new generation of 6D, I'd probably get that and then hope I can just soldier on with the EF platform for 20 years. My F1 is still perfectly serviceable and it's 45 years old.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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I've been looking for feedback on the mirrorless camera systems myself.

I am just getting back into shooting more, and I hadn't realized that "the DSLR is dead" until I started shopping for a new body. I have a nice old Canon F1 (for occasional dabbles with film) and an ancient Rebel XT with a decent collection of FD and EF lenses plus one EF-S 55-250 IS zoom. I am mostly shooting low-light, wide angle and macro at the moment and I think a full-frame camera would be the right move as a major upgrade on the the poor old Rebel XT.

It does sound like manufacturers are already plotting out the retirement of the DSLR...but I'm not ready for Canon to sell me a whole new 'ecosystem' of products that are incompatible with what I have and discarding all my glass or running adapters. So while I recognize the benefits of the mirrorless cameras I think I am going to remain committed to the DSLR and EF lenses. I'm not a pro or even a 'serious' amateur so I'd prefer to keep as much of my existing gear as I can.

It would be nice if Canon released one more new generation of 6D, I'd probably get that and then hope I can just soldier on with the EF platform for 20 years. My F1 is still perfectly serviceable and it's 45 years old.
Don’t discount second hand. With all those people switching to mirrorless there are plenty of bargains to be had! I’m also going to stick to a DSLR (my trusty Nikon D750) for the foreseeable future. It does what I need.
 
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jz0309

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Sep 25, 2018
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It would be nice if Canon released one more new generation of 6D, I'd probably get that and then hope I can just soldier on with the EF platform for 20 years. My F1 is still perfectly serviceable and it's 45 years old.
I doubt it, they have a fairly recent Rebel (8Ti?) and there is (and I own it) the 6DII ...

Might want to browse this site, while mostly there is mirrorless "news" no, there is also still some discussion on DSLRs:
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
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I've been looking for feedback on the mirrorless camera systems myself.

I am just getting back into shooting more, and I hadn't realized that "the DSLR is dead" until I started shopping for a new body. I have a nice old Canon F1 (for occasional dabbles with film) and an ancient Rebel XT with a decent collection of FD and EF lenses plus one EF-S 55-250 IS zoom. I am mostly shooting low-light, wide angle and macro at the moment and I think a full-frame camera would be the right move as a major upgrade on the the poor old Rebel XT.

It does sound like manufacturers are already plotting out the retirement of the DSLR...but I'm not ready for Canon to sell me a whole new 'ecosystem' of products that are incompatible with what I have and discarding all my glass or running adapters. So while I recognize the benefits of the mirrorless cameras I think I am going to remain committed to the DSLR and EF lenses. I'm not a pro or even a 'serious' amateur so I'd prefer to keep as much of my existing gear as I can.

It would be nice if Canon released one more new generation of 6D, I'd probably get that and then hope I can just soldier on with the EF platform for 20 years. My F1 is still perfectly serviceable and it's 45 years old.
I bought a Canon R6 last year, and except for one RF lens, all are EF Canon Lenses. I also have a Tokina 16-28mm f/2.8 that I use to take photos of the Auroras, and a landscape shot now and then. The Canon R adapter allows for using all of these lenses with the R6. I still use a Canon 5D II to take photos of the Auroras, and some landscape shots using the Tokina lens, or the EF 40mm pancake (this one is an outstanding little lens, and quite cheap price wise). Also have a 7D that am keeping for taking photos of wildlife along the R6.

I am with Apple fanboy on this. Second hand is not a bad idea.
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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Thanks for the feedback. I had started to poke around a little looking for a used body. A nice used 6D or perhaps even a bargain 5D in good condition might be good buys.

I'm going to give the EOS Rs a fair shake and try one out before making a decision.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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Thanks for the feedback. I had started to poke around a little looking for a used body. A nice used 6D or perhaps even a bargain 5D in good condition might be good buys.

I'm going to give the EOS Rs a fair shake and try one out before making a decision.
My advice is avoid eBay and buy from a dealer. They should offer a warranty of some sort.
 

Ledgem

macrumors 68020
Jan 18, 2008
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Hawaii, USA
My F1 is still perfectly serviceable and it's 45 years old.
One of the downsides to digital is that we won't be able to say the same thing about DSLRs or MILCs. Mechanical cameras and lenses could be repaired almost infinitely, or remade anew and improved. With the digital systems, if you fry a circuitboard, you're about done for. Even the motors that power lenses can't be replaced unless it's by the companies that made them, right? Even then, in most cases it sounds as if the companies are choosing to send replacements rather than repair and send back. I presume that's because the repair is time-intensive and it's better from a customer service front to send a replacement (or refurbished lens) and then re-sell the repaired lens as refurbished, but I don't know...

I have lenses from the 1970's, maybe earlier, that still hold up beautifully. Sure, they're not as critically sharp or flare-resistant as modern lenses, but there's something special about holding a piece of equipment and knowing that other photographers may have taken photos from all across the world, and of all sorts of interesting sights and scenarios. We're going to lose a lot of that with our digital equipment, and the fixed lifespans that they have.
 

AlaskaMoose

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Apr 26, 2008
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Thanks for the feedback. I had started to poke around a little looking for a used body. A nice used 6D or perhaps even a bargain 5D in good condition might be good buys.

I'm going to give the EOS Rs a fair shake and try one out before making a decision.
If you are going the full-frame route, then at least look at a 5DIV. However, you won't be able to use your EF-S lenses, since these are designed for crop-sensor cameras such as the one you already have. Also, since these are FF cameras, you may want to think about buying longer lenses. The longest telephoto I have for the 7D is a 400mm prime. I could use this lens "adapted" to my R6, but I decided to use a Canon 100-500mm zoom lens instead.

The focus accuracy of the 5DIV was a good improvement over the 5D II and III. For cropped sensor cameras, the 60D is not bad, but the 7DII is the best if you desire to photograph birds in flight (has a higher burst and focus modes).

With the new R-series cameras such as the R5, and R6, you can still use your EF-S lenses, but these cameras have full frame sensors (FF). The R5 has a sensor that is twice as large as the R6, but the latter doesn't cost as much.

If you watch this video, keep in mind that both the 5DIV and 6D are FF cameras. The rest are cropped-sensor cameras:
 
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mollyc

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Aug 18, 2016
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do not under any circumstances buy a 5dii. that camera has such bad focus issues i switched to nikon. a iii or iv would be fine.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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If you are going the full-frame route, then at least look at a 5DIV. However, you won't be able to use your EF-S lenses, since these are designed for crop-sensor cameras such as the one you already have.
I only have one EF-S (apart from the Rebel's kit lens), the 55-250 IS. It's a good enough lens but I'd be willing to sacrifice it in exchange for going full-frame on the camera body.

One of the downsides to digital is that we won't be able to say the same thing about DSLRs or MILCs. Mechanical cameras and lenses could be repaired almost infinitely, or remade anew and improved. With the digital systems, if you fry a circuitboard, you're about done for. Even the motors that power lenses can't be replaced unless it's by the companies that made them, right? Even then, in most cases it sounds as if the companies are choosing to send replacements rather than repair and send back.
Very true. Software gets EOL'd, manufacturers stock less replacement parts, and expensive gear gets orphaned after just a handful of years sometimes. We bought a brand new Canon EOS 10D for work years ago - given the cost it turned out to be very bad value. Prices on cameras have remained high but their useful lives are shorter.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
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Lord Black wrote:
"but I'm not ready for Canon to sell me a whole new 'ecosystem' of products that are incompatible with what I have and discarding all my glass or running adapters."
and
"It would be nice if Canon released one more new generation of 6D..."

I daresay that Canon will not be releasing ANY more full-frame "mirrored" cameras.
I would go so far as to say that they won't be releasing any more "non-Rebel" ASPC mirrored cameras, either (90d may have been the last one).

They -might- release one or two more mirrored "Rebel" cameras, but it won't be many.

If you want something new from Canon, full-frame, then get an "R series" camera.

It will work with nearly all your EF lenses (you'll need the basic adapter), and will even work with the EFs 55-250 (although the images will be "in crop mode").

"Mirrors" are a design concept "of the past".
Think "carburetors" vs. "fuel injection" in cars.

Indeed, I predict that Canon is about to also do away with the mechanical shutter in the next few years.
We'll probably see the first "all-digital" camera in the upcoming Canon R1 (no mechanical mirror, no mechanical shutter)... truly... "all digital".

As others have mentioned, if you want Canon (mirrored) full frame, you might consider a 5DmIV. Either new or from Canon's "refurbished" page. I've bought refurbished lenses from them -- except for the plain packaging, they were "like new" with the full warranty.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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I daresay that Canon will not be releasing ANY more full-frame "mirrored" cameras.
I would go so far as to say that they won't be releasing any more "non-Rebel" ASPC mirrored cameras, either (90d may have been the last one).

Probably accurate, the more I read between the lines the more it's obvious that Canon have already pretty much abandoned the DSLR and EF glass, except as legacy products to support for awhile. At first I had hoped to see if there would be one more generation of Canon full-frame DSLR, but I now think that's very unlikely.

However, as a more-or-less casual photographer with a fair amount of 'old' gear that still works, I realize that I don't need the latest and greatest. I just want a good full-frame Canon DSLR I can use for 10-15 years. I have zero FOMO about the big mirrorless transition.

If money were no object, I'd run out today and get a 5D Mk IV. But I'll probably need to compromise on something significantly less expensive, like the 6D Mk II.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
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"But I'll probably need to compromise on something significantly less expensive, like the 6D Mk II."

I'd also investigate a Canon-refurbished EOS R.
Not the latest-and-greatest mirrorless, it compares very well vis-a-vis the 6DmII.

Will almost certainly work with all your existing EF (and EFs) lenses.
In fact, the lenses may work better (with an R series camera + adapter) than they do on a mirrored body...
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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"But I'll probably need to compromise on something significantly less expensive, like the 6D Mk II."

I'd also investigate a Canon-refurbished EOS R.
Not the latest-and-greatest mirrorless, it compares very well vis-a-vis the 6DmII.

Will almost certainly work with all your existing EF (and EFs) lenses.
In fact, the lenses may work better (with an R series camera + adapter) than they do on a mirrored body...
I am certainly going to try handling all of the 5D IV, 6D II, and R series before buying. I don't think I need any of the features offered by the mirrorless cameras, but I'm not totally against getting one. Still leaning towards the DSLRs at this point but keeping it open.

I am a champion procrastinator, so this week I took the F-1 out and shot some film instead of shopping a new digital body. ;) I might wait till the holiday season anyway and see what sales might turn up, since I'm not in a hurry.
 
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Apple fanboy

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Feb 21, 2012
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I am certainly going to try handling all of the 5D IV, 6D II, and R series before buying. I don't think I need any of the features offered by the mirrorless cameras, but I'm not totally against getting one. Still leaning towards the DSLRs at this point but keeping it open.

I am a champion procrastinator, so this week I took the F-1 out and shot some film instead of shopping a new digital body. ;) I might wait till the holiday season anyway and see what sales might turn up, since I'm not in a hurry.
Given the shortage of cameras, I’d not expect too many bargains.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
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some of the big advantages to mirrorless are focal points across the whole frame and focus peaking for manual focus. not a lot of people manual focus but the extra focal points can make a big difference.
 
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