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repairedCheese

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 13, 2020
632
835
As the question asks, what would be the best machine to bridge the PowerPC era and modern one? I know a not insubstantial chunk of those earlier MacBooks had issues with graphics hardware, and I don't think yet another tower is in my budget, but I'm open to options. The nice thing is, my older machines all have Firewire, so I always have that as a fallback, I just need something a little newer, or maybe a lot newer, that can speak Target Disk Mode, and I'm looking for advice.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,786
12,185
I'd go for a 2011 13" MacBook Pro for the following reasons:

1. No GPU issues (because there is no discrete GPU).
2. It can run Snow Leopard - and boy, SL is fast on one of those! - all the way up to Catalina (with patches; no idea about Big Sur).
3. It has "all the ports" including FireWire and Thunderbolt.

The lack of USB 3.0 is a nuisance but can be overcome with a Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 adapter.

But it all depends on your specific needs of course. :)
 
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rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
741
999
I'd probably agree with the recommendation of the 2011 13" MBP; unlike my perennial favourite - the 2009 A1181 MacBook 5,2 -- it runs relatively modern versions of OS X, and has basically all the ports you'll need for future expansion thanks to Thunderbolt. Heck, I'd say just about any early Intel 13" MBP you can reasonably afford, since they all had integrated graphics.

My only concern with the post-8600m GT and non-switching graphics MacBook Pros is the issue with breakdown of the HDD and display flex cables, but AFAIK they only primarily affected the 15" MBPs.
 
I concur with the conclusion @Amethyst1 offers here, as a ten-year-long owner of an early 2011 13-inch MBP. Aside from some mainteinance I was able to fix myself, this system still runs Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and does so astonishingly well. There are only two notable walls I’ve hit with it, which isn’t well documented anywhere: if I run audio from it (via iTunes, VLC, QuickTime, etc.,) for a total of roughly 13 days non-stop (don’t ask), the audio begins to get “crunchy” and fails (by mostly cutting out) until a reboot. Also, pushing the video at the same time you push the RAM cap (from running a lot of open applications simultaneously for days on end) can produce a “wall of slowdown” in which the system doesn’t kernel panic, but drops to a glacially slow rate (screen refreshes at roughly once a minute) and which requires a reboot. With the latter, as VRAM is shared with RAM, this could be some kind of overflow error/crash.

If you can, try to find a late 2011 13-inch model, as this series would be the quickest of the Sandy Bridge-era iX 13-inch MacBook Pros (Sandy Bridge being the last to run Snow Leopard).

Another angle to consider:

The 2008 MacBook Pros (the MacBookPro4,1) is a bit of a bridge and also a Swiss army knife. Once you can find a GPU-repaired 15- or 17-inch 2.4, 2.5, or 2.6GHz model (Apple marked these certified repairs with the green dot on the RAM bridge, and of course @dosdude1 provides a repair service), you’ll find this model is capable of running everything between Tiger (unsupported, but possible) and Big Sur (also unsupported, but possible), and it runs Snow Leopard brilliantly (as I’ve been learning in recent months).
 
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MysticCow

macrumors 68000
May 27, 2013
1,564
1,760
If you have the peripherals, get a 2011 mini running 10.13 with everything energy saver disabled.

I've found that doing that gets rid of "black screen and fans blazing" errors common to the ones with the Radeon card. Plus, it runs Win 10 well enough to be a daily if you're into Winders 10.
 

Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
As the question asks, what would be the best machine to bridge the PowerPC era and modern one? I know a not insubstantial chunk of those earlier MacBooks had issues with graphics hardware, and I don't think yet another tower is in my budget, but I'm open to options. The nice thing is, my older machines all have Firewire, so I always have that as a fallback, I just need something a little newer, or maybe a lot newer, that can speak Target Disk Mode, and I'm looking for advice.
Whatever I can get for $40 or less, has FW and will run Leopard up to El Cap. Something like an a1278 5,1 or 5,5 or a1224 7,1. I'm not very picky. For Tiger, something like a cMP1,1. You get Tiger up to El Cap. Heck due to their limitations, ppl are practically giving away cMP 1,1s right now.
 
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Applicator

macrumors regular
Jan 20, 2021
118
254
Germany
For Tiger, something like a cMP1,1. You get Tiger up to El Cap. Heck due to their limitations, ppl are practically giving away cMP 1,1s right now.
That is a 100% correct. You can easily score an upgraded cMP 1,1 for less than $50 on eBay.
If you prefer something slimmer, you can buy an intel Mac mini ('07 or '09 ) or a MacBook A1181 for the same money.

Second idea: iMac late'09, 21.5", 9400m
Those are the most reliable early Intel iMacs and not that expensive (starting at $80). Plus, a nice 1080p Display already included
 

bobesch

macrumors 68020
Oct 21, 2015
2,142
2,220
Kiel, Germany
As the question asks, what would be the best machine to bridge the PowerPC era and modern one? I know a not insubstantial chunk of those earlier MacBooks had issues with graphics hardware, and I don't think yet another tower is in my budget, but I'm open to options. The nice thing is, my older machines all have Firewire, so I always have that as a fallback, I just need something a little newer, or maybe a lot newer, that can speak Target Disk Mode, and I'm looking for advice.
  • My favorite would be a mid-2012 preRetina 15"MBP9,1.
  • Fully agree with @Amethyst1 about the benefits of the preRetina 13"MBPs.
  • Then a core2duo unibody 13/15/17" MBP would be on third place of my list. The 15/17" models without SD-slot have the split bottom-plate with large battery door and allow fast access to battery and harddrive. You may add USB3 or SD-card reader through the PCexpressCard-slot. (The 13" 2008-unibody MB is also a nice machine with large battery-door for fast harddrive-access, but unfortunatele it does'nt sport FireWire).
If you run late versions of OSX like ElCap, you'll need to replace the AFP version with the version, that comes with Leopard in order to be able to connect to early OSX (below Leopard) on PPC (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/filesharing-screensharing-between-os9-and-intel-macs.2178732/ base on http://www.applefool.com/se30/#leopardfileserver).

My favorite thing for connecting PPC and intels is an ad-hoc FireWire network, which works between PPC and later intel-Macs (with only thunderbolt and no FW) up to Mojave using FW400 <> FW800 <> Thunderbold using the specific connectors ... So maybe a FW400ToFW800-cable or connector plus Apples FW800ToThunderbold-connector-cable might be the easiest way to solve your demand of connecting your Macs of different eras and even access shared connected devices like printer, scanner and optical drive.

About my other brigding Macs:
  • PPC (os9) <> PPC (OSX) <> intel (OSX)
  • 64kMacs [os7] (AppleTalk/LocalTalk) <> PowerBookG3 Wallstreet/PDQ /w colored Apple-logo [os8/9] (AppleTalk/LocalTalk + Ethernet) <>PPC [os9] (Ethernet+Wifi) <> intel Macs (/w modified AFP-protocol)
 
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retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
3,482
That is a 100% correct. You can easily score an upgraded cMP 1,1 for less than $50 on eBay.
If you prefer something slimmer, you can buy an intel Mac mini ('07 or '09 ) or a MacBook A1181 for the same money.

Second idea: iMac late'09, 21.5", 9400m
Those are the most reliable early Intel iMacs and not that expensive (starting at $80). Plus, a nice 1080p Display already included
Are people actually finding Mac Pros for that cheap? At least here on US eBay I cannot find any such thing. People want hundreds to ship them.
 
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Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
Are people actually finding Mac Pros for that cheap? At least here on US eBay I cannot find any such thing. People want hundreds to ship them.
I never buy macs via ebay. Every single mac purchase Ive ever made new or used (aside from a few portables now that I think about it) has been local because ebay frankly is a rip off when you factor in freight unless you can buy and pickup locally. My cMP1,1 was picked up three years or so ago with 32gb ram and a 120gb SSD and ElCap install for $80 bucks. Over 2020, there was that big push for 4,1 & 5,1s due to their expandability. It was during this period I saw 1,1's for $40-$50 bucks on Craigslist, Facebarf etc. Granted not spec'd out with the absolute best/maxed componentry but incredibly cheap for what they are and very expandable despite their macOS 10.11 limitation. Being that I still use PowerPC and Leopard, I don't see this as a limitation by any stretch rather a great opportunity to get cheap 1,1s :D

Ignore ebay and pay attention to local to you sale platforms.
 
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Applicator

macrumors regular
Jan 20, 2021
118
254
Germany
Are people actually finding Mac Pros for that cheap? At least here on US eBay I cannot find any such thing. People want hundreds to ship them.
If you filter for "sold items" and "auction", you can find loads of them sold for $40 to $80 in the last months.
If you're not into auctions, this way you can still get a good impression of an items real market value i.e. what people are willing to pay, and check your local market places for good offers.
I did not factor in any shipping expenses, because it very much depends on your and the sellers residence.
 
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retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
3,482
I tend to avoid Craigslist and FB these days because in this area people don't take care of anything so I often end up with trashed equipment. Same thing in AZ. Hard to find anyone selling computer stuff that isn't suffering from internal issues due to dust or whatever the issue may be. Found a few with bugs in them back then. I may have to try looking again though to see what I can find.
 
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Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
I tend to avoid Craigslist and FB these days because in this area people don't take care of anything so I often end up with trashed equipment. Same thing in AZ. Hard to find anyone selling computer stuff that isn't suffering from internal issues due to dust or whatever the issue may be. Found a few with bugs in them back then. I may have to try looking again though to see what I can find.
Both have their strengths. With ebay you IMO almost always overpay through freight charges but you have legitimate recourse if there is an issue. Local sales are almost always one off back of your car cash transactions, so you absolutely do run that risk of getting a screwed up whatever. I have confidence in my ability to fix most things that may arise and I don't over pay should I need to sink money or time into a repair. If someone doesn't hold that skill set, it makes sense to favor use of ebay/paypal as there is recourse for the buyer should something not be right, thus legitimate added value in the inflated price.

Neither is really wrong through that lens, more so it depends on the skillset and desired output of the buyer.
 
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MysticCow

macrumors 68000
May 27, 2013
1,564
1,760
I never buy macs via ebay. Every single mac purchase Ive ever made new or used has been local because ebay frankly is a rip off when you factor in freight unless you can buy and pickup locally. My cMP1,1 was picked up three years or so ago with 32gb ram and a 120gb SSD and ElCap install for $80 bucks. Over 2020, there was that big push for 4,1 & 5,1s due to their expandability. It was during this period I saw 1,1's for $40-$50 bucks on Craigslist, Facebarf etc. Granted not spec'd out with the absolute best/maxed componentry but incredibly cheap for what they are and very expandable despite their macOS 10.11 limitation. Being that I still use PowerPC and Leopard, I don't see this as a limitation by any stretch rather a great opportunity to get cheap 1,1s :D

Ignore ebay and pay attention to local to you sale platforms.
This is true for the big box towers and iMacs. But if you're going for a mini or a laptop, shipping isn't THAT horrendous.

But then again, I went to ebay for my second G3 iMac for a MS Office and iWork station, so...
 
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Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
Certainly not trying to be the authority here - as always IMHO & YMMV.

To your point, I picked up a 12” 867mhz powerbook & retail box copy of Tiger bundle for $37.50 shipped on eBay in 2019 so deals can be had there. Portables can indeed be shipped much more economically than towers & AIOs and as such, makes it much more difficult to hide gouging within the freight.
 

MultiFinder17

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2008
2,739
2,084
Tampa, Florida
I tend to avoid Craigslist and FB these days because in this area people don't take care of anything so I often end up with trashed equipment. Same thing in AZ. Hard to find anyone selling computer stuff that isn't suffering from internal issues due to dust or whatever the issue may be. Found a few with bugs in them back then. I may have to try looking again though to see what I can find.
What I always do when buying something on Craigslist is bring along any peripherals that I’d need to test out every major function (display, keyboard, mouse, CD, DVD, FireWire drive, etc.) and ask if they’d mind if I tested the machine out before buying it. Most everyone I’ve met has been totally fine with it, and after I’m sure everything is working, I’ll buy the computer. If everything is NOT working, I’ll generally inform them of the issues I’ve found; if it’s not a dealbreaker to me, I’ll demonstrate and try and work out a better price and if it is a dealbreaker I’ll inform them and thank them for their time.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
My first Mac, bought new in early 2012, was an MBP 8,1(13"), which as others have said is a great system. I'm actually getting ready to put it back into regular service as my SL system, but it was my primary computer 2012-2015.

IF you can live without SL, the mid-2012 series computers are a significant upgrade. In fact, I used an MBP 9,1(15") from 2015 up until earlier this year when I bought an M1. It's a superb system and although it was getting a bit long in the tooth I could in principle still be using it. The discrete GPUs in these are not known to be problematic. I also have a pieced together 9,2(13")-I call it "pieced together" because I was given a dead early 2011 MBP and I stuck a 9,2 LoBo in it. You lose SL support, but gain USB 3.0 and the Intel HD4000 GPU(in both the 13" and 15") is both a step up in performance and also supports Metal so El Capitan+ get a big performance boost. You also get Catalina official support, although I stick to Mojave for 32 bit compatibility.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,786
12,185
How much extra work (if any) is required to install SL on the late 2011 13"?
None, as it's identical (hardware-wise) to the fully supported Early 2011, save for a minimally faster CPU and bigger stock hard drive. I'd advise to start with the restore discs shipped with an Early 2011 13" (which will be at 10.6.6 level) and update to 10.6.8. If you start with a 10.6.8 install made on another machine, you'll probably have to copy over some plist files (from the restore disc) for SpeedStep to work correctly - in your case, those for a MacBookPro8,1.
 
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Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
Well at the risk of sounding pedantic, nothing is guaranteed to work especially with elderly retro computers. It could work great on Monday and die on Tuesday. I totally agree that it makes great sense to take common sense precautionary steps but for myself anyhow, the cheaper the buy is, the less Im worried about those steps. I mean if someone is willing to sell me an in-box G3 B&W for $30 bucks (which did happen), Im not going to make the seller watch me run a bunch of tests on it. I'm going to pay the man and walk out with a great buy.

At a point that sort of protective behavior comes off as shrude and in bad taste. That's my take on it anyhow. Additionally, I like to build future trade/buy relationships when I can and if I go in and pull some obnoxious 20 point inspection on a $30-50 mac, that definitely damages my ability to connect with the seller and forge that relationship. My two cents anyhow.
 

MultiFinder17

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2008
2,739
2,084
Tampa, Florida
Well at the risk of sounding pedantic, nothing is guaranteed to work especially with elderly retro computers. It could work great on Monday and die on Tuesday. I totally agree that it makes great sense to take common sense precautionary steps but for myself anyhow, the cheaper the buy is, the less Im worried about those steps. I mean if someone is willing to sell me an in-box G3 B&W for $30 bucks (which did happen), Im not going to make the seller watch me run a bunch of tests on it. I'm going to pay the man and walk out with a great buy.

At a point that sort of protective behavior comes off as shrude and in bad taste. That's my take on it anyhow. Additionally, I like to build future trade/buy relationships when I can and if I go in and pull some obnoxious 20 point inspection on a $30-50 mac, that definitely damages my ability to connect with the seller and forge that relationship. My two cents anyhow.
Fair point! I’m usually only super obsessive about checking that things work if the machine is specifically advertised as 100% working and that’s why I’m getting it, or it’s something fairly new that I intend to use as a main or mainish machine.
 

Certificate of Excellence

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2021
945
1,458
Fair point! I’m usually only super obsessive about checking that things work if the machine is specifically advertised as 100% working and that’s why I’m getting it, or it’s something fairly new that I intend to use as a main or mainish machine.
Very fair point as well. my scrutiny level goes way up as well when I'm buying something new or new-ish because we're most likely puting some significant cashola towards it when we do and as spoken to earlier, marketplaces like CL really have no recourse other than your initial inspection. It's big dollar instances like this where ebay protections really do add value - not so much IMO on the smaller stuff.
 
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