What's the ideal bridge Mac?

[repairedCheese]

The more I read, the more it feels like 2011 is the cutoff for what I'd like to be able to do. Perhaps this might be heresy elsewhere, but if I can run Snow Leopard on a laptop that can run circles around a G5 Quad, that would definitely be my default way of running PPC OSX apps. It's a shame Sheepshaver isn't more stable because that could have most of Mac OS 9 covered.

I like running the old machines, but I'm not above emulation, not remotely. Not if it's good, anyway.

 

[Amethyst1]

Perhaps this might be heresy elsewhere, but if I can run Snow Leopard on a laptop that can run circles around a G5 Quad, that would definitely be my default way of running PPC OSX apps.

Why would it be heresy? It makes perfect sense IMHO. Keep in mind running ppc apps through Rosetta will come with a performance hit, but the 2011 MBP is a fast machine (unless the battery is gone).

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Well, emulation certainly cuts down on clutter.

 

[bobesch]

The more I read, the more it feels like 2011 is the cutoff for what I'd like to be able to do. Perhaps this might be heresy elsewhere, but if I can run Snow Leopard on a laptop that can run circles around a G5 Quad, that would definitely be my default way of running PPC OSX apps. It's a shame Sheepshaver isn't more stable because that could have most of Mac OS 9 covered.

I like running the old machines, but I'm not above emulation, not remotely. Not if it's good, anyway.

Except from virtual Win2k/XP/7 and Classic/Rosetta-environment for me there's nothing like the real thing ...

 

[repairedCheese]

Why would it be heresy? It makes perfect sense IMHO. Keep in mind running ppc apps through Rosetta will come with a performance hit, but the 2011 MBP is a fast machine (unless the battery is gone).

Well, emulation certainly cuts down on clutter.

I really do like being able to cover as much as I can with as few pieces of hardware as possible, and I happen to have a similarly aged Dell Precision laptop so I know a thing or two about dealing with decade old laptop parts. That era of x86 system is more than capable of emulating what it needs to, power-wise.

Except from virtual Win2k/XP/7 and Classic/Rosetta-environment for me there's nothing like the real thing ...

Ah, but can this era of Mac run Windows 10? I feel like that's the real challenge!

 

[0423MAC]

Just read the thread in detail. Yep the early 2011 mbp seems to be the best bet. It CAN be patched to run Big Sur from all that I’ve read. Pretty incredible. macOS 10.6 all the way up to macOS Big Sur

 

[bobesch]

Ah, but can this era of Mac run Windows 10? I feel like that's the real challenge!

Win10 in a virtual machine on a c2duo early intel is IMHO only proof of concept - or, wait, the calculator runs great ... 😄
I had a three 24" iMacs from 2009 (2,6 to 2,9GHz, 8GB RAM, SSD) to run Win10pro solely (drive fully MBR-partitioned, 'cause I didn't want the hassle of BootCamp and mixed MBR/GPT).
First impression was ok with browsing, Office2k, PDF-handling, light apps and BootCamp-add-ons.
After I've installed my mandatory database-suite-software for work (a horrible 32bit-patchwork that really needs to be revamped), which needs to deal with the connected database and embedded documents on a Win10pro-file-sever, fun was over. Working was still possible, but speed comparable to current browsing on PPC ... I finally replaced by mid-2012 nonRetina MBP9,1 (cloning Win10 and transfer of the Win-activation was a bit tricky but did work), sold the two 2,6GHz machines but kept the one 2,9GHz one for special tasks, where speed doesn't matter that much or for RDP to the server ...
Well, Win10pro on an early-intel is possible, but only on a MultiBoot-machine and with limited power ...
And mind the hassle about Win10 activation! On the faster mid-2012 MBP9,1 (one sports two SSD: one Win10/MBR, the other Mojave/GPT) I tried to open Win10 within VMware-Fusion and killed my Win10-Activation (something that was not supposet to happen, if you read the manual - but maybe I missed an important thing). Especially because of that Activation-thing, I'd keep Win10 on an separate drive, because swapping the compete hardware (the Mac) and transfer the Activation is a bit complicated, but possible.

Down the virtual road Win7 struggles (but is ok, like actual Win10 on an early-intel), WinXP is ok and Win2k runs like hell, even for runnung games of that time (as long, as they do not require 3D-grafic-support)

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I really do like being able to cover as much as I can with as few pieces of hardware as possible, and I happen to have a similarly aged Dell Precision laptop so I know a thing or two about dealing with decade old laptop parts. That era of x86 system is more than capable of emulating what it needs to, power-wise.

Ah, but can this era of Mac run Windows 10? I feel like that's the real challenge!

I get that. As much as I am a fan of hardware and love looking at my machines, they do take up a huge amount of space if you want to display, make them usable and still have it look decent (balanced, pleasing to the eye etc.). Emulation out of one box is incredibly convenient when space is at a premium or era correct hardware is old and unreliable.

 

[Amethyst1]

Win10 in a virtual machine on a c2duo early intel is IMHO only proof of concept - or, wait, the calculator runs great ... 😄

There's one big reason to run Windows... Aclock.

 

[bobesch]

OT: Seems, "The Ink Spots" did also cover all whoes about networking-problems ...

 

[retta283]

I'd also like to opine that a 2007 or 2008 24" iMac is a nice bridge machine, although a bit of an older range of support. This would be for if you care about Tiger. You could upgrade the Wi-Fi card and CPU in a 2007 and install up to Mojave or Catalina (not sure which) allowing years of some modern browser support and other apps, but also able to fall back on Tiger and SL. The 2008 is basically the same situation, CPU is already supported though for the Mojave patcher. Only caveat of the 2008 is with Tiger you need a USB DAC, so no built in speakers. Intel Tiger is mostly a tinkerer's OS these days though, unless you're like me and have custom made software that oddly refuses to work on anything higher. I recommend these as reliable units too because they are east to service and have next to no notable issues (GPU is reliable).

A 2007 or 2008 MBP with the fixed GPU is also a brilliant option for this. I'd also be curious to see if any reliable replacement MXM cards for the 2011 iMac work well with Snow Leopard, a desktop-class i7 with good graphics would absolutely demolish anything SL can run.

 

[YanniDepp]

Late 2009 models are an excellent middle ground, especially the 21” iMac. You can put 16GB RAM and an SSD inside and put Snow Leopard on it. It’ll run like a dream on those specs, and Snow Leopard can run PPC apps through the original Rosetta.

The 2009 models with built-in nVidia graphics are quite reliable. They don’t have the capacitor issues the earlier models did or the GPU issues the later models did.

 

[spyguy10709]

I'm a big fan of a1181 Macbooks. Mainly because these computers were *everywhere*, and most enthusiasts I know ended up with at least one of these. But since they were often very slow on their original hard drives, had near-universal aesthetic cracking issues in the palmrest plastic, and limited to older MacOS versions - nobody wanted them. I remember seeing wholesale lots at $10/unit at one point in time.

These units aren't great for talking to OLD machines, but they have FW400, USB, and some models can run as far back as 10.4 tiger. This makes them functional workhorses for the price

With an SSD and 2/3/4GB RAM, these things aren't half bad!

Looks like you can still get them delivered from ebay for under $50. I'd avoid the earliest core duo models in favor of the core 2 units but other than that it's hard to go wrong with a classic

 

[0423MAC]

ever since stumbling on this thread I’ve been playing around with two 13” early 2011 MacBook pros (core i5 & core i7) on 1TB spinning HDDs to start and here are my thoughts so far:

I’ve installed all officially supported OS’ snow leopard-high Sierra and it’s all running surprisingly smooth. I remember how so many people wanted to downgrade to snow leopard after the release of lion, but snow leopard hasn’t aged as well as most probably think it has. The extra gestures brought in to lion-mountain lion-mavericks make those versions of OS X feel much smoother despite being released immediately after Snow Leopard.

I think the next step in this journey is to test out the patched operating systems. I’m starting to believe that this MacBook will reach the finish line of Intel support if these graphical patches prove to be smooth enough on Big Sur - the CPU can handle most light to intermediate tasks well enough. 720p YouTube plays fine, 720P60+ the fan runs at full tilt.

Windows installations after I get done with Mojave-Big Sur.

Then Linux (elementary OS) to see how well it runs.

Fun little project seeing how a single machine can theoretically bridge software developed as early as the mid to late 90s to today. The most interesting nugget here is that it’s theoretically possible not just on the mac side of things, but Windows as well as I’ve seen people getting windows XP stable on this particular model.

I’ll be playing on the HDDs for a bit longer before transitioning to SSDs. If there is any software (preferably free software) that someone would like me to try LMK.

 

[retta283]

I’ll be playing on the HDDs for a bit longer before transitioning to SSDs. If there is any software (preferably free software) that someone would like me to try LMK.

If you're willing to, I'd be very curious to see how Nexuiz runs on that computer. It's a free game from 2005 based on the Quake 1 engine (dark places) that is actually quite resource intensive on higher settings. I don't know if this game works on anything newer than Mavericks though. Here's the link: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nexuiz/

No install needed, everything is in the folder. Under settings, make sure resolution is max and under Effects tab select the Ultra preset. I'm looking at picking up one of these era MBP or Mini with comparable specs, and this is one of the few games I play on Mac so I'd be curious how it works.

 

[repairedCheese]

Windows installations after I get done with Mojave-Big Sur.

Consider me curious about this. We're on the verge of Windows 11, and while I know these old laptops have their issues running 10, there's not nearly as much consolidated about this as I would like. It's not like the hardware can't run 10, almost every Intel Mac has x86 hardware that should, in theory, be able to run windows 10. But bootcamp doesn't play nice.

I've mostly been looking back, at things like Snow Leopard, Firewire and Target Disk Mode, with something newer to boot into for the more modern Internet, among a whole host of other things. But just how does things look going forward? And just what OS can take advantage of the old hardware the best, anyway? If it's Windows, I'm going to laugh.

 

[Amethyst1]

almost every Intel Mac has x86 hardware that should, in theory, be able to run windows 10. But bootcamp doesn't play nice.

You don't actually need Bootcamp. You can hunt down and install the necessary drivers manually. That's the challenge sometimes - finding drivers for the old hardware that work on 10. A friend of mine had 32bit 10 on a Core Duo iMac.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Amusingly, I yanked a SSD out
Of an i7 pavilion and stuck it in a 08
Macbook and it booted right up into w10 - no fuss, no muss.

 

[MultiFinder17]

Amusingly, I yanked a SSD out
Of an i7 pavilion and stuck it in a 08
Macbook and it booted right up into w10 - no fuss, no muss.

I've found Windows 10 to be so much better about autoconfiguring new hardware when an install is pulled between machines than previous versions.

 

[Amethyst1]

f you're willing to, I'd be very curious to see how Nexuiz runs on that computer. It's a free game from 2005 based on the Quake 1 engine (dark places) that is actually quite resource intensive on higher settings. I don't know if this game works on anything newer than Mavericks though. Here's the link: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nexuiz/

I just tried it on my 13" 2011 MBP, 1280×800 Ultra. Level 1 seems fine - but is there some kind of built-in benchmark/info that shows how many FPS I'm getting?

 

[0423MAC]

If you're willing to, I'd be very curious to see how Nexuiz runs on that computer. It's a free game from 2005 based on the Quake 1 engine (dark places) that is actually quite resource intensive on higher settings. I don't know if this game works on anything newer than Mavericks though. Here's the link: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nexuiz/

No install needed, everything is in the folder. Under settings, make sure resolution is max and under Effects tab select the Ultra preset. I'm looking at picking up one of these era MBP or Mini with comparable specs, and this is one of the few games I play on Mac so I'd be curious how it works.

I will try this over the weekend.

If anyone is attempting to do this there are a few things to consider:

1 - the retail disc of snow leopard will not work on this machine as it was 10.6.3. This MacBook shipped with version 10.6.6 installed. I had version 10.6.7 laying around and was able to get up and running that way.

2 - if attempting to do clean installs of all operating systems via usb you will run into an issue with the Sierra DMG Apple has provided on their support site.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683

Eric From Canada found out what the issue was and the solution can be found here:

Post in thread '"not a valid volume mount point" Can't make bootable drive'
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ant-make-bootable-drive.1935673/post-28197924

3 - Mavericks is nearly impossible to grab as Apple has pulled it offline and wasn’t a particularly popular version of OS X. Unless you are old school with a habit of keeping “hard copies” of files you might find it challenging to get a copy of Mavericks.

4 - USB 2.0 is even slower than we all remember. I strongly advise looking into transferring whatever files you believe you might need on an exFAT partition on the HDD/SSD for quick access to files between operating systems. This proved to be extremely valuable while trying to pinpoint what the problem was with the Sierra DMG package Apple has linked for install and imagine it will be beneficial once I go down the Windows/Linux rabbit holes. exFAT support was added in SL 10.6.5, yet another unique advantage this machine has with this OS support 😅

5 - I’ve attached an image of all the installations currently booting perfectly, but there is still a lot of work to do.

I believe the OS installations for mass compatibility across the board will end up being:

macOS:
Snow Leopard, Mojave and then whatever the latest version the community has patched. (Big Sur ATM)

Windows:
XP, 7, 10 or 11

Linux:
Whatever flavor you want. Elementary OS is probably what most Mac users will enjoy due to its familiarity.

Back to work…

 

[0423MAC]

I just tried it on my 13" 2011 MBP, 1280×800 Ultra. Level 1 seems fine - but is there some kind of built-in benchmark/info that shows how many FPS I'm getting?

Very cool, what version of macos?

 

[Amethyst1]

Very cool, what version of macos?

Mavericks (10.9.5).

USB 2.0 is even slower than we all remember.

Fortunately Thunderbolt on the 2011 MBP saves the day.

 

[0423MAC]

Mavericks (10.9.5).


Fortunately Thunderbolt on the 2011 MBP saves the day.

Thunderbolt is what started me down this path. It provides a rather interesting set of options one has when it comes to expansion if they have one of these machines laying around. You could add usb 3.0, potentially faster Ethernet and maybe even a modern lower to mid tier egpu setup if they have that laying around. The CPU on this will be a major bottleneck for any gpu stronger than let’s say a GT 1030/GTX 1050 or AMD equivalent at best. Good luck finding an affordable gpu to play with these days

The internal WiFi upgrade solution by subtle design is another interesting path to explore. I’ve got that installed on a mid 2012 model and has worked great for me. Although I believe at that point you’ll risk breaking compatibility with older operating systems due to lack of driver support. Not that anyone should want to get online with Windows XP or any legacy OS X installation these days lol.

 

[retta283]

I just tried it on my 13" 2011 MBP, 1280×800 Ultra. Level 1 seems fine - but is there some kind of built-in benchmark/info that shows how many FPS I'm getting?

Yes, I didn't think about them but start Nexuiz & open the console (`) issuing: timedemo demos/demo1.dem The results will be stored in: ~/.nexuiz/data/benchmark.log, or will show in the console when finished.

There are also other demo files, demo1-5.dem, bench1.dem, and piece-o-cake.dem.