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James Murray

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 27, 2020
56
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Using some of the guides here, I've been able to keep my 2009 mac pro alive by upgrading it to Mojave with nvme drives. It runs great. But I'm noticing that Mojave is becoming obsolete and was wondering if I can upgrade it to a more recent version of Mac OS. If so, which version and how can it be done? Also what are the risks of upgrading it further?
 
So first, a disclaimer: I am not a "Mac Pro expert" like some people on this forum, so those "Mac Pro experts" should correct me on any wrong information. I happen to have a 5,1 Mac Pro that I use regularly, so I can answer from my own experience. Also, I'm not the most organized with my thoughts, so I hope this is understandable.

The latest officially supported OS on 2010 5,1 or 2009 "cross-flashed" to 5,1 is Mojave—what you're running.

The latest OS that can be run with OpenCore Legacy Patcher is Monterey. As of yet, you can NOT run Ventura, and if you try, it will just be stuck in a boot loop and you will have to fully reinstall macOS. I personally run Monterey 12.6.1 (haven't bothered with 12.6.2) on my Mac Pro 5,1 and it runs great.

The specs of my Mac Pro are as follows:
  • 2010 5,1 Mac Pro (i.e. a "true" 5,1—not flashed from 4,1)
  • Stock 2.8 GHz Xeon (I have a single-processor model), which is absolute crap, but I somehow have managed. I'm planning to upgrade it to an X5690 at some point.
  • 32 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Registered (runs at 1066 due to Nehalem-era limitation of a 1066 MHz bus)
  • Boot drive is a 1 TB spinner—a Seagate 7200 RPM that runs great. I'm not booting off an SSD because I need a lot of storage space on my boot drive (I know, I can get a 1 TB NVMe, but I'm fine right now)
    • I have a 2 TB 7200 RPM Seagate as well, and a 1 TB 5400 RPM 2.5 inch Toshiba I took out of an HP Pavilion laptop that I store VMs on mostly... it's deathly slow.
  • Radeon Pro W5500 video card with 8 GB VRAM
  • I ordered a USB 3.0 card but it is not coming till next week.
The machine runs great—I can edit 4K no problem in DaVinci Resolve, and Logic, MainStage, Compressor, and Motion run great, too.

The way you would run Monterey (and that everyone does) is with OpenCore Legacy Patcher.

The limitations
  • NO HEVC encoders available (so HEVC renders on the CPU, which is SUPER SLOW). There are ways to get HEVC encoders to work, but it's too much work for me... if you want to try, go right ahead.
  • With OpenCore Legacy Patcher, every time you download an update, you have to download the full installer. So, on a slow internet connection, this can be a real pain. I have a fast connection so it's no problem for me.
  • If something goes wrong with OpenCore or it stops working (which is VERY rare), you have no way to recover unless you have a second Mac or second native macOS installation. For me, if this happened, I would be screwed, because the W5500 only works with Catalina and later, and not with any native version (i.e. High Sierra).
    • I've actually had this happen before. I had to put back in the stock GPU (the Radeon HD 5770) and reinstall High Sierra, install OpenCore, and then install Monterey. The first time, I had the wrong GPU in (the 5770, not the W5500) and totally screwed up EVERYTHING because it installed drivers for the HD 5770 and I had to completely start over again. SO BE CAREFUL!
Questions I have for you
  • What is the GPU you have in the Mac Pro? Maybe can you attach a screenshot (sans serial number obviously) of the About This Mac page?
  • Are you willing to "accept" all of the aforementioned flaws/limitations of OpenCore Legacy Patcher?
 
I used to have a 4,1 2009 Mac Pro (8-core, 16GB RAM, 512MB video card) and I never worried. It ran El Capitan with 4-page Launchpad apps, even Parallels with Windows 7 and Ubuntu on it. I replaced it with a 6,1, only because it was slow with image processing. But that had nothing to do with the OS, just the 16GB.

Regarding the OpenCore, a more recent OS is indeed desirable for its better security code, but otherwise, I can't see any obvious benefit for day-to-day runs. And the 4,1 are so low-price Pros (while they are still available!).
 
Yeah, I get it, many day-to-day apps like Chrome, Mail, etc. work fine under Mojave. But Mojave, and even Catalina for that matter, do not include the important security fixes/patches... just something to consider.
 
The limitations
  • NO HEVC encoders available (so HEVC renders on the CPU, which is SUPER SLOW). There are ways to get HEVC encoders to work, but it's too much work for me... if you want to try, go right ahead.
HEVC works out of the box with OCLP. It does all the necessary checking of the GPU and sets the proper kexts.

  • With OpenCore Legacy Patcher, every time you download an update, you have to download the full installer. So, on a slow internet connection, this can be a real pain. I have a fast connection so it's no problem for me.
Incremental updates work.

  • I had the wrong GPU in (the 5770, not the W5500) and totally screwed up EVERYTHING because it installed drivers for the HD 5770
What screwed up? OCLP or MacOS?
 
OK. I don't know about W5500, never seen such card, but my experience with OCLP and RX5x0 series was that it detects the card and sets the needed kexts and settings into config.plist. Don't know if this is universal behavior, but this card is RDNA and other RDNA cards work...

I had some issues with Monterey installer USB as well (the installer wasn't bootable), this is solved by running createinstallmedia on a supported machine to the USB and then using flash drive to actually install.
 
8bit or 10bit? Which software?

HEVC hardware encorder should work for the W5500. However, only if all the encording parameters are supported.
 
8bit or 10bit? Which software?

HEVC hardware encorder should work for the W5500. However, only if all the encording parameters are supported.
In DaVinci Resolve. I believe the files I was testing were 8-bit. It rendered purely on the CPU.
 
I've just did a quick test on my 5,1. This setting can use the GPU hardware HEVC encorder. The Encoding Profile must be Main, but not Main10. And of course, the resolution must within the hardware media engine's limit.

Screenshot 2023-01-12 at 2.04.43.png
 
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So first, a disclaimer: I am not a "Mac Pro expert" like some people on this forum, so those "Mac Pro experts" should correct me on any wrong information. I happen to have a 5,1 Mac Pro that I use regularly, so I can answer from my own experience. Also, I'm not the most organized with my thoughts, so I hope this is understandable.

The latest officially supported OS on 2010 5,1 or 2009 "cross-flashed" to 5,1 is Mojave—what you're running.

The latest OS that can be run with OpenCore Legacy Patcher is Monterey. As of yet, you can NOT run Ventura, and if you try, it will just be stuck in a boot loop and you will have to fully reinstall macOS. I personally run Monterey 12.6.1 (haven't bothered with 12.6.2) on my Mac Pro 5,1 and it runs great.

The specs of my Mac Pro are as follows:
  • 2010 5,1 Mac Pro (i.e. a "true" 5,1—not flashed from 4,1)
  • Stock 2.8 GHz Xeon (I have a single-processor model), which is absolute crap, but I somehow have managed. I'm planning to upgrade it to an X5690 at some point.
  • 32 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Registered (runs at 1066 due to Nehalem-era limitation of a 1066 MHz bus)
  • Boot drive is a 1 TB spinner—a Seagate 7200 RPM that runs great. I'm not booting off an SSD because I need a lot of storage space on my boot drive (I know, I can get a 1 TB NVMe, but I'm fine right now)
    • I have a 2 TB 7200 RPM Seagate as well, and a 1 TB 5400 RPM 2.5 inch Toshiba I took out of an HP Pavilion laptop that I store VMs on mostly... it's deathly slow.
  • Radeon Pro W5500 video card with 8 GB VRAM
  • I ordered a USB 3.0 card but it is not coming till next week.
The machine runs great—I can edit 4K no problem in DaVinci Resolve, and Logic, MainStage, Compressor, and Motion run great, too.

The way you would run Monterey (and that everyone does) is with OpenCore Legacy Patcher.

The limitations
  • NO HEVC encoders available (so HEVC renders on the CPU, which is SUPER SLOW). There are ways to get HEVC encoders to work, but it's too much work for me... if you want to try, go right ahead.
  • With OpenCore Legacy Patcher, every time you download an update, you have to download the full installer. So, on a slow internet connection, this can be a real pain. I have a fast connection so it's no problem for me.
  • If something goes wrong with OpenCore or it stops working (which is VERY rare), you have no way to recover unless you have a second Mac or second native macOS installation. For me, if this happened, I would be screwed, because the W5500 only works with Catalina and later, and not with any native version (i.e. High Sierra).
    • I've actually had this happen before. I had to put back in the stock GPU (the Radeon HD 5770) and reinstall High Sierra, install OpenCore, and then install Monterey. The first time, I had the wrong GPU in (the 5770, not the W5500) and totally screwed up EVERYTHING because it installed drivers for the HD 5770 and I had to completely start over again. SO BE CAREFUL!
Questions I have for you
  • What is the GPU you have in the Mac Pro? Maybe can you attach a screenshot (sans serial number obviously) of the About This Mac page?
  • Are you willing to "accept" all of the aforementioned flaws/limitations of OpenCore Legacy Patcher?

Sorry for the late response. I decided ultimately not to move forward with this and just stick with Mojave until I can afford a new mac pro. The reasons?
1. I don't have much free time and this seems like a time consuming process.
2. I've heard that opencore can brick 2009 mac pros unless you flash the rom regularly, and just recently I flashed my rom and can no longer change my startup disc to bootcamp (made a separate thread about that issue). I'd rather not have to frequently flash it if I'm going to run into problems like that.

Thank you for the information though. I appreciate it.
 
Consider using Martin Lo's custom opencore build for cMPs. I have full hevc 10 & 8 bit encoding on an old RX590. You'll need to modify somethings in order to get legacy bluetooth cards working but other than that, very pleased with Martin's work.
 
Consider using Martin Lo's custom opencore build for cMPs. I have full hevc 10 & 8 bit encoding on an old RX590. You'll need to modify somethings in order to get legacy bluetooth cards working but other than that, very pleased with Martin's work.


Thanks Kitty. Rather than buy a new mac I decided to see how much more life I could squeeze out of this old 2009 mac pro. I installed open core using that build.

I managed to install Big Sur quite easily. I simply just downloaded it from the apple store and installed it. I didn't have to use Opencore Legacy Patcher at all. But all of the instructions said that I would need to use that. Is there a reason for that? Am I going to run into issues because I didn't use OLP?

Also the reason I installed Big Sur instead of Monteray or Ventura was because I heard there are performance issues on old Macs when you try to use anything more recent than Big Sur. But I do know that eventually Big Sur will no longer be supported so I'm wondering if anyone who's used Monterey or Ventura on an old mac like mine has had any problems. Here are my mac specs:

2009 Mac Pro upgraded to 5,1 with Open Core
Processor: 3.06 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Memory: 32 GB DDR
Video: Radeon Sapphire Pulse RX580
Big Sur isntalled on NVMe card plugged into Aqua Computer kryoM.2 PCI-E card
Windows boot camp installation on WDC SSD drive plugged into SATA bay
 
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Alright I think I just broke NVMe card. I wasn't able to boot into bootcamp from the Startup Disk utility in settings. I remembered that I had this problem before and was able to solve this problem by resetting the NVRAM. But for some reason, ever since getting a new keyboard for this mac, I haven't been able to reset the NVRAM by pushing cmd,option,p,r at startup. So I tried doing it from the terminal with this command:

$ sudo nvram ResetNVRam=1 && sudo reboot

When it rebooted, I no longer could see the EFI boot loader screen on startup and it didn't reboot into my main Big Sur installation. Instead it rebooted into my Mojave rescue disk. I got an error that said one of the drives was was incompatible:

Incompatible Disk
This disk uses features that are not supported on this version of macOS

The incompatible disk, unfortunately, was my main NVMe drive with Big Sur installed on it. I tried rebooting into that drive from the Startup Disk utility, but it wasn't listed there. I tried rebooting into bootcamp, this worked. And from bootcamp I was able to see the drive. But when I tried booting into it, the computer would shut down immediately after starting up. I had to physically remove the drive in order to get the computer to boot back into my Mojave rescue disk. So now my NVMe card is unusable. I'm trying to reinstall open core but for some reason I can't get into my recovery partition (cmd r isn't working) to disable SIP. Any ideas?
 
You can boot a createinstallmedia USB macOS installer and disable SIP from the installer Terminal (Menu>Terminal).

If your GPU does not have pre-boot configuration support, you can remove/disconnect all disks and let only the createinstallmedia USB installer connected to the Mac Pro, your Mac Pro will boot from it after the firmware scans all other interfaces - USB have the least bootable priority, it will boot anything else if a bootable disk is connected anywhere - takes 3 to 5 minutes for the screen to work.
 
Thanks Alex, that worked. I was able to reinstall EFI and I got the boot screen. However my Big Sur drive is showing up as its old name "Mojave" instead of "Big Sur". Also there appears to be a "Big Sur - Data" partition on the drive. Not sure why. This change occurred after I reset the NVRAM from the command line (as described above). Did this happen because I didn't use Opencore Legacy Patcher when I upgraded my Mojave installation to Big Sur? If not any idea what happened and if I can fix it?
 
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Thanks Alex, that worked. I was able to reinstall EFI and I got the boot screen. However my Big Sur drive didn't show up in the list. But I was able to get into the big sur reinstallation recovery partition. I noticed the drive was renamed from "Big Sur" to "Big Sur - Data". Not sure why. This change occurred after I reset the NVRAM from the command line (as described above). Did this happen because I didn't use Opencore Legacy Patcher when I upgraded my Mojave installation to Big Sur? If not any idea what happened and if I can fix it?
Hey, James: you might benefit from skimming through the "Manually Configured Opencore on the Mac Pro" post #1. The Martin Lo package is essentially the same as the manually configured approach, except with Martin's package you kind of jump to a pre-configured end state with the plist all set up and all the files put in the OpenCore structure from the get-go. You kind of need to have at least a superficial understanding of how OpenCore works, and what you need to watch out for, lest you lock yourself out of your intended version of the MacOS (Big Sur, in this case).

What I think happened is this: when you did the Terminal command to reset the NVRAM you erased the NVRAM parameter that said "Boot into the OpenCore EFI partition" first on startup/restart. So then the firmware went looking through your other disks for something bootable. All that it could find to boot was your Mojave disk, so it booted that (natively, no OpenCore involvement). However, when you boot natively into Mojave without OpenCore being involved none of the internal memory structures have been set up to fool the firmware into thinking that your machine can boot Big Sur, so of course your Big Sur doesn't look bootable. Also, the version of APFS that Mojave runs isn't fully compatible with APFS laid down by Big Sur, so the Big Sur NVME disk probably can't even be read by Mojave.

The thing with not seeing your Big Sur drive, but instead seeing "Big Sur - Data" probably has to do with the fact that the Big Sur OS is installed on a separate read-only, signed partition, and the operating system (once booted and running) merges the OS partition and the data partition and presents it to you as though it was one volume. I think if you get booted properly through OpenCore you will see an option to boot into Big Sur, and then things should work as expected.

Can you get out of this predicament? Almost certainly yes. Your Martin Lo OpenCore partition almost certainly is still present, somewhere. Unfortunately I'm not personally experienced with Martin Lo's package, so I don't know which disk it puts OpenCore on. You can find out easily by using

diskutil list

and looking for a partition of around 208 MB on each disk (there may be more than one such). You probably will have to mount and look at each candidate partition to see if the OpenCore structure is present on that disk. I would start with the one on the NVME disk, and only check others if you strike out. What you're going to do is mount that partition according to the instructions in the Manually Configure post #1

sudo diskutil mount /dev/diskXs1

Where diskXs1 is the 208 MB partition that you think might have OpenCore on. The command above will mount a volume called EFI, and with a folder EFI inside it. Inside that you might have two folders: Boot and OC. If you find a partition with that structure, bingo, now you know where your OpenCore partition is. Make a note of the disk and partition slice: it will look something like disk1s1, meaning disk 1, slice 1. You need this later when you are specifying where the firmware boot target is.

Then all you need to do is bless that partition and tell the firmware to store that as the boot target. You do that by booting into Recovery Mode with Command-R, and issuing a Terminal command. The instructions are in the Basic Setup section of the Manually Configured guide, under the "First boot" subsection.

Whatever you do, don't drag the OpenCore Legacy Project into this unless you're really desperate, it will just muddy the waters. OCLP is fine, don't get me wrong, but you can't selectively fix a Manually Configured or a Martin Lo installation with OCLP, nor is it very easy to fix an OCLP installation by diving into it as though it were a Manually Configured install. OCLP is meant to be an easy, hands-off install. Pulling in OCLP is essentially a nuke and pave over anything else that you've got going.
 
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Thanks for the info Flaubert! I actually already solved the problem, but I did it by reinstalling Martin's package. Although I don't think it was a clean install. When I start it up and get to the boot picker screen, my main drive is labeled "Mojave" even though I renamed it to "Big Sur". Fortunately I'm still able to boot into it and once I'm logged in the drive is still labeled "Big Sur", but I'm not sure why the name reverted back to Mojave on the boot picker screen, I'm fairly certain was labeled "Big Sur" before I reset the NVRAM.

I also noticed there were several other options in the boot picker screen that probably shouldn't be there. One is labeled 8TBSeagate, this is just a drive I use for storing my time machine backups. When I choose that option i just get a blank screen and have to shut down the computer manually to get out of it. There are also 3 "Windows (Legacy)" options when there should only be one. Only the first one works, the other two just display an error message saying there is no operating system installed. I checked to see if there were any other windows boots but it only found one, so the issue must be with OpenCore.


C:\Windows\system32>bcdedit /enum firmware

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume10
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {current}
resumeobject {ebc156bc-42b1-11ec-b7d6-e25b6d82682c}
displayorder {current}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 30

C:\Windows\system32>



I know it's not a big deal since I can just ignore those options, but is there any easy way to clean that up? It's a bit annoying.

The more serious issue is the NVRAM reset one. I don't want to have to setup OpenCore every time I reset the NVRAM. Is there a way to avoid that?


Also when I ran diskutil list it showed that EFI was on multiple drives. Not sure why. I know I tried installing it on my bootcamp drive, but that option disappeared when I tried to do it after the NVRAM reset. Is there a way to remove EFI from the drives I'm not using it on? Should I? Also is it safer to have the EFI partition on my windows drive? Just to give you some more info this is my diskutil list:


-bash/jamesmurray/~ >diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *2.0 TB disk0
1: EFI ⁨EFI⁩ 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_APFS ⁨Container disk1⁩ 2.0 TB disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: APFS Container Scheme - +2.0 TB disk1
Physical Store disk0s2
1: APFS Volume ⁨Big Sur - Data⁩ 1.6 TB disk1s1
2: APFS Volume ⁨Preboot⁩ 304.7 MB disk1s2
3: APFS Volume ⁨Recovery⁩ 1.6 GB disk1s3
4: APFS Volume ⁨VM⁩ 1.1 MB disk1s4
5: APFS Volume ⁨Big Sur⁩ 15.3 GB disk1s5
6: APFS Snapshot ⁨com.apple.os.update-...⁩ 15.3 GB disk1s5s1

/dev/disk2 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: FDisk_partition_scheme *2.0 TB disk2
1: Windows_NTFS ⁨System Reserved⁩ 52.4 MB disk2s1
2: Windows_NTFS ⁨BOOTCAMP⁩ 2.0 TB disk2s2
3: 0x27 ⁨⁩ 533.7 MB disk2s3

/dev/disk3 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *240.1 GB disk3
1: EFI ⁨EFI⁩ 209.7 MB disk3s1
2: Apple_APFS ⁨Container disk4⁩ 239.8 GB disk3s2

/dev/disk4 (synthesized):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: APFS Container Scheme - +239.8 GB disk4
Physical Store disk3s2
1: APFS Volume ⁨MojaveRescueDisk⁩ 50.5 GB disk4s1
2: APFS Volume ⁨Preboot⁩ 23.2 MB disk4s2
3: APFS Volume ⁨Recovery⁩ 507.6 MB disk4s3
4: APFS Volume ⁨VM⁩ 20.5 KB disk4s4

/dev/disk5 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *8.0 TB disk5
1: EFI ⁨EFI⁩ 209.7 MB disk5s1
2: Microsoft Basic Data ⁨ExFat⁩ 8.0 TB disk5s2

/dev/disk6 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *8.0 TB disk6
1: EFI ⁨EFI⁩ 209.7 MB disk6s1
2: Apple_HFS ⁨8TBSeagate⁩ 8.0 TB disk6s2
3: EFI ⁨NO NAME⁩ 104.9 MB disk6s3
 
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Hello. I take advantage of this thread since my question has to do with Ventura on Mac Pro 5.1. With James' permission of course not to open a new thread.

From what I have read in several threads and this is the newest on the matter, it seems that Ventura would only be possible to run on Mac Pro 5.1 with problems due to technical issues that I cannot understand.

My question is simple: today is it possible to install Ventura on Mac Pro 5.1 without problems? Or do we have to make the idea that Monterey is our best option?

Thanks in advance.
 
@James Murray : unfortunately my experience does not extend to running, much less debugging, Windows under OpenCore. So, I don't think I can help move you forward toward a solution.

There are many threads in this forum about the intricacies of booting and running Windows when you have OpenCore installed. I'm guessing that there must be a way to avoid doing the NVRAM reset altogether; I think you did that originally because the Windows boot option wasn't showing up in the System Preferences Boot disk pane, right? When things are set up correctly with OpenCore you should be able to select a boot target by holding down the option key during initial boot. This thread might be useful; note the warnings about the difference between a legacy boot and a UEFI boot install:


Edit: you might want to look into the "MyBootMgr" system for booting into Windows without going through OpenCore. That might help you split your difficulties more cleanly into OpenCore issues and Windows issues.
 
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