What's wrong with this picture?

[SolracSelbor]

Professional photographer...ME? You must be mistaking! I by no means am a professional, you can clearly see that from my photos.

"I'm sorry that I ever gave your post as much attention as I did." so sorry that you had to edit this one in order to state the fact?

I'm just use to seeing some of your better work. Such as this:

Well I have to get going; it's past my bedtime...

 

[alembic]

Shacklebolt, I'm not an event photographer, having only covered one wedding, a baby shower and a few outdoor concerts. But I know it's plum full of logistics that are usually beyond one's control. I have enough challenges with existing light portraits or travel scenics!

Whenever I ask for criticism I try to realize the feedback I get typically falls under these categories:

1) clear pointers that help me become a better photographer.

2) pointers, though well-intentioned, that miss the mark because the critic misinterpreted the original request (like I did in this case).

3) helpful pointers that are buried by a lack of diplomacy!. e.g. "this sucks; here's how it's done."

4) feedback disguised as helpful criticism to salve the critic's own ego. i.e. "here my chance to diss someone so I can feel good about my stuff."

The first, of course, is the easiest to digest. Sometimes I have to clarify my request to cover the second. Usually a few nuggets can be had from the third type of feedback if I'm able to put away my ego. And the fourth, well, the world could be a boring place without them, I suppose.

Ultimately it's my responsibility to take what's useful. Keep up the good work!

 

[Digital Skunk]

Honestly, when a shooter enters the environment he his shooting in, the first thing that should be done is setting his camera body up. No matter how hard the lighting may be or the scene, etc etc the photographer should be able to pull out a well lit well exposed photo given the circumstances.

The truly difficult part of photography is producing that image that speaks, everything else is somewhat of a means to an end.

 

[Keebler]

Hi Shackebolt,

I agree with the suggestion PPrior put to photoshopping the other 2 bodies out of the picture. That is the way to go. They do create quite a distraction. And using the vignette or another method will draw attention to her and the colours of her outfit.

As for the petty squabbling b/n solarsac or whatever his name is - you asked for opinions and suggestions so you have to deal with the consequences. You may or may not approve of them, let alone approve of the individual giving them, but you should have taken the high road, said thanks and left it at that. imho.

As for the photograph itself, I am in no way a professional so I won't offer any solutions. I have learned some good tips from the other posts though.

Good luck,
Keebler

PS. you posted another cropped photo and my only thought on that is that you might not have left enough space to the left of her right arm elbow for framing. It would be great if you could leave an inch so when she frames it (assuming she will), then there's enough depth there.

 

[pprior]

Nice illustration pprior. Not to push the comp. topic but the image is easier to swallow with just the female.

A note on toning though. You don't need to have been there to tone. Set the white point and black point and adjust for the color that you know is there, like white, her skin tones, the dress, the floor. Or if you know there is too much casting turn that color down then tweak, tweak, tweak.

I saw nothing in the picture to which I could ascribe a white point other than burnt highlights which are unreliable.

Yes I could have spent a lot of time in curves tweaking color, but my goal was to spend a few minutes and show just a bit of composition change and how it would affect the photo.

I'm saddened to see the short temper in the above postings. I thought the crticism was reasonable. I know we all feel a bit of personal attack when our images are criticized, but I would advise that if you're going to post an image for C&C that you just take a deep breath and take whatever criticism you get for better or worse. As very well written above, how OTHERS see your images can tell you a lot about what you might be missing because of your own internal bias. We see our own work differently because of our vision that may not be fully seen by others.

 

[Shacklebolt]

That wasn't apparent. The first thing I'd do (and I don't think the dress merging with the background is horrible- it depends on where you want the eye to focus) is I'd re-tone the white garment to some darker color. Your eye is immediately drawn to the lighter areas, and there's not anything "interesting" there to see. I'd start by toning it dark grey or black and see what that does to the overall dynamic.

This is useful criticism, and helpful advice.

I'm not usually this blunt, but quite frankly I can't believe anyone paid money for that photo.

the composition is horrid and that pretty much means a delete in my workflow. Where you forced into that position to shoot from? Was your ability to zoom out (either with your feet or with focal length) impaired?

This just isn't, and more than that, it's flat out wrong. I was shooting from a balcony 60 feet away. This was a dance show - they weren't just striking poses. I shot the show from four different angles, about 650 pictures in an hour and a half, which is pretty standard. I happened to be in _this_ place when this number came on. Of course my movement was impaired. I had a railing and 10 people standing directly behind me. I can thus only presume that those were rhetorical questions.

Alright- as everyone has said, your color is off, but more specifically, it's too warm. There are some blown highlights, and there is a green cast on the man's shoulder and the girl's arm. . If you were to look at a histogram, you'd be able to tell that the image is flat, and thus needs more contrast, and, obviously, to be sharpened.

In you place, I'd start off with a cooling filter, then adjust the curves for a nice s-shaped curve. From there, you can heal-brush just the green cast off, which works very well for the man's shirt and well-enough for the girl's arm. Unsharp mask the thing, and call it a day. If it was shot as a jpg, there is little you can do to get back some of the highlights or shadows.

This is useful criticism, and helpful advice.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

This thread reminds me why I don't spend much time here anymore... you sound like a couple of 9 year olds fighting at the local playground...

Ask for criticism, then can't take it.

Sheesh.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

This thread reminds me why I don't spend much time here anymore... you sound like a couple of 9 year olds fighting at the local playground...

Ask for criticism, then can't take it.

Sheesh.

Agreed, if you post a thread called "What's wrong with this picture?" you'd better be ready for a lot of opinions. I'm of the opinion that there's nothing special about it, a snapshot and nothing more. But hey, if the gal likes it that much then good for you! It's only her opinion that matters right?

In the future, you'd do better to make yourself open to all critism, if you ask for any that is.

I think the professional photographer comment Carlos made was referring to you. What I gather he meant was that from an entrepreneurial standpoint (you) you made some cash, that's awesome. But from the standpoint of considering yourself to be a professional photographer or someone who has aspirations to become one, that's not a good photo to have someone showing around town with your reputation attached to it! That's all he meant.

SLC

 

[shecky]

everyone stop.

put away your egos.

read this. now:

how to give criticism

and this:

how to accept criticism with grace and appreciation.

 

[pprior]

This is useful criticism, and helpful advice.



This just isn't, and more than that, it's flat out wrong. I was shooting from a balcony 60 feet away. This was a dance show - they weren't just striking poses. I shot the show from four different angles, about 650 pictures in an hour and a half, which is pretty standard. I happened to be in _this_ place when this number came on. Of course my movement was impaired. I had a railing and 10 people standing directly behind me. I can thus only presume that those were rhetorical questions.

No they were just meant to clarify. I'm not sure what experience or expertise you have in shooting and quite frankly it looked to me as though you were not prepared to take this picture. The angle, the composition and the framing are all just wrong.

If you're forced into a shooting position you do the best you can, but since you seemed to be shooting hte middle of your zoom range at the very least you could have zoomed out a bit for more room to manipulate the framing.

If you're trying to shoot a bunch of people and not really able to plan your position for a given shot, then you do the best you can, but personally I would have avoided being up in that balcony if at all possible from the looks of it.

My comments were made in good faith and I personally feel have some value in the discussion. You can of course discount them if they don't match your shooting style, but I'll say once again that this shot would never be one I would be showing in a portfolio of work, and therefore I think you should get a bit thicker skin when it comes to the comments made on it.

There are two things that ultimately matter:

1) does the client like the picture (#1 - apparently yes since you said she bought it, so good job).
2) Will other people who the client shows it to like it and generate more business - here I think you'll fall down on this shot.

Cheers and again my comments made in the best of faith and with good intentions to you.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I saw nothing in the picture to which I could ascribe a white point other than burnt highlights which are unreliable.

Yes I could have spent a lot of time in curves tweaking color, but my goal was to spend a few minutes and show just a bit of composition change and how it would affect the photo.

I'm saddened to see the short temper in the above postings. I thought the crticism was reasonable. I know we all feel a bit of personal attack when our images are criticized, but I would advise that if you're going to post an image for C&C that you just take a deep breath and take whatever criticism you get for better or worse. As very well written above, how OTHERS see your images can tell you a lot about what you might be missing because of your own internal bias. We see our own work differently because of our vision that may not be fully seen by others.

I agree, and trust me the main reason I don't post images here is because I don't want someone I don't know critiquing my photos. A lot of posters want to be Pro, but don't want to put out the work. The staff at my paper does a much better job of judging my work and giving me professional advice. And I know them, and can see their work as well.

Not that I wouldn't do it if I didn't work for the paper, but if I did post an image it would be one I feel would stand a chance, then listen to the well tempered advice of others while taking it all in with a grain of salt.

Getting back on topic. When you set the white point you're just picking the brightest spot on the photo, even if it has a yellow cast. The app will adjust color slightly to make that point white, if it's supposed to be white (don't go picking the wrong color that is ) After that 60% of the toning is done.

everyone stop.

put away your egos.

read this. now:

how to give criticism

and this:

how to accept criticism with grace and appreciation.

If anyone else went to journalism or comm studies school, then they would have read that, been involved with that, taught it to other students, and then went through it with just about every job/internship/conference they go to. And a lot of times the pros critiquing your stuff don't go through the motions.... they just rip your sh*t to pieces. If you're lucky, they do it with a nod and a tossing of your folio, if not, they sit there and rag on it for minutes, in front of your competition.

p.s. The biggest problem with critiquing anyone's anything on this site, or the net in general is weak emotions and arrogance. If you say something about someone's mockup/photo/website/etc. you get attacked, so you have to dumb your responses down to make them feel good about their bad or not so good work. And they still attack you for it.

As I said in the mockup thread for MBPs.... it's just a sign of youth. Young people these days whine more than any generation I have grown up with, and I am not that old. If you don't say what they want to hear, you must be ..... you get the point. Can't tell them anything.

 

[mac 2005]

Wow! Did this thread ever get off track.

Criticism is a tricky subject and should be approached only with people who are qualified to give it. The problem is that most people lack the knowledge and/or the verbal skills to give legitimate advice in a way that engages the person asking for the critique, is constructive and feels safe.

From what I saw, the OP asked for comments beyond "It sucks" and, in the process, got more than s/he intended. Too many people went off on tangents because, I suppose, they see the Internet as an anonymous venue for s**t-tossing.

Of the legitimate comments I saw on this thread, far too many of them strayed beyond the technical insight the OP wanted and made values judgments that did not offer perspective on aperture, shutter speed, composition or depth of field. Criticizing the OP for not doing what you clearly would have done neither provides a legitimate criticism nor positions your criticism as credible or worth reading. We all have to learn somehow; personally, I've learned more from my mistakes than my successes. With respect to speaking down to someone from the vantage point of your experience, if you're able to learn from an insult, good for you, but that isn't what the OP requested. If you can't provide respectful criticism, then either don't offer it or don't blame the other person for being offended by your offensive comments.

This isn't rocket science; it all goes back to what we learned in grade school. If you want to play in the sandbox, don't throw sand in the other kids' faces.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Wow! Did this thread ever get off track.

Enough said.....

Moderators, you may close the thread when ready!

 

[pprior]

No come on guys, we shouldn't need a moderator to babysit.

And besides, I too really want to know how much was paid for that picture.

 

[mac 2005]

So if you have a problem with me, send me a PM instead of thread-drifting.

At the risk of "thread-drifting," whatever that is, I think a much more appropriate analogy would be...

"Arguing on the Internet is like fighting in the mud. Even if you win, you feel dirty."

 

[xUKHCx]

Moderators, you may close the thread when ready!

There is the post report button that people should use to bring it to the attention of moderators. We can't read every post here on MacRumors.
The report post button looks like this

and should be on the left side of every post

No come on guys, we shouldn't need a moderator to babysit.

I beg to differ, this thread went off track and needed attention long ago. It is now closed and will remain closed permanently.