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tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I haven't felt really excited for an Apple product (Hardware/Software/Services) for some time now...WWDC, even though it's meant for developers hasn't been really exciting for me. I used to look at the new features and feel amazed and think that they were awesome. The past 2 years (maybe 3) I just thought...meh...

I won't even get started on what I think of the current Mac lineup...

Fair comment. What Android and WP phones in the last two years made you feel amazed and think they were awesome? Mobile hardware is mature, you will see amazing and awesome features rarely from here on, in fact from 2 years ago, and on. Mac? Same with PC hardware, which a Mac is anyway
 

iFitzgerald

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2011
198
27
Ponta Delgada, Azores, Portugal
Fair comment. What Android and WP phones in the last two years made you feel amazed and think they were awesome? Mobile hardware is mature, you will see amazing and awesome features rarely from here on, in fact from 2 years ago, and on. Mac? Same with PC hardware, which a Mac is anyway

I have to admit you did make a big point in regards to hardware being mature. But it also made me think of something I was already feeling: looking at an iPhone and a mid-to-high range Android phone, there isn't much on Apple's side that makes me feel that I should fork the extra money to stick with Apple. Same with Macs and "regular PCs" as well. For what I need from a Computer and a Smartphone, these days I can manage very nicely with Windows and Android and save some money. Before I used to feel that Apple's offerings justified the price, these days, not so much.
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Off work earlier this week, I strolled into a local store (a few doors away) that's full of mostly secondhand TVs. The owner specialises in satellite TV and so on. At the counter:
  • a turn-of-the-century iBook
– well preserved (yo-yo charger in good shape, and so on). In a store full of relatively modern, practical, highly saleable items, the shopkeeper was focused on that one thing of rare beauty. I helped him out by loaning a CD for installation of Mac OS 9.2.1 and left him, a little later, with an Internet Explorer view of google.co.uk … plus fair warning that he shouldn't expect sites such as YouTube to work
smile-graphite-png.566471


Of all the Macs that we had in our department over the past twenty-something years, we never had such an early iBook. So last week was an extremely rare opportunity for me to be hands-on. If ever you get the opportunity, take it; without even using the operating system you'll feel one of the least boring things ever produced by Apple.

iBook G3 Clamshell Retro Review | State of Jailbreak (2012 review of a 2000 model)

L'Aventure Apple : Matériel : iBook
 

redheeler

macrumors G3
Oct 17, 2014
8,587
9,184
Colorado, USA
Off work earlier this week, I strolled into a local store (a few doors away) that's full of mostly secondhand TVs. The owner specialises in satellite TV and so on. At the counter:
  • a turn-of-the-century iBook
– well preserved (yo-yo charger in good shape, and so on). In a store full of relatively modern, practical, highly saleable items, the shopkeeper was focused on that one thing of rare beauty. I helped him out by loaning a CD for installation of Mac OS 9.2.1 and left him, a little later, with an Internet Explorer view of google.co.uk … plus fair warning that he shouldn't expect sites such as YouTube to work
smile-graphite-png.566471


Of all the Macs that we had in our department over the past twenty-something years, we never had such an early iBook. So last week was an extremely rare opportunity for me to be hands-on. If ever you get the opportunity, take it; without even using the operating system you'll feel one of the least boring things ever produced by Apple.

iBook G3 Clamshell Retro Review | State of Jailbreak (2012 review of a 2000 model)

L'Aventure Apple : Matériel : iBook
Certainly one of the most uniquely designed laptops ever made. Here's a picture of mine from a little while back:
attachment.php

I'll have to order a new DC-in board soon to try and get it working again. It has 10.3.9 Panther installed.

My favorite Apple design of all time must be the iMac G4 however. It was born out of compromise, but the compromise inspired innovation, and it just looks great.
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
I stopped watching their ToysRUs keynotes. I need real computers.

Define real computer.

I'll not attempt that definition. Instead:


Some of the least boring points in the history of Apple computing

1996

Apple Gives the First Public Demonstration of the Mac OS Running on the PowerPC Platform

1998 1999

"… Apple became the first major computer company to make Open Source development a fundamental part of its software strategy …"​

2000

Apple Unveils Mac OS X

2001

Worldwide Developers Conference 2001session information

2002

Worldwide Developers Conference 2002session URLs

Now …

Press release inconsistencies:

"… Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad. …"​

"… Apple leads the world in innovation with iPhone, iPad, the Mac and Apple Watch. Apple’s three software platforms — iOS, OS X and watchOS — provide seamless experiences across all Apple devices and empower people with breakthrough services including the App Store, Apple Music, Apple Pay and iCloud. …"​
Seamless?

Some of those experiences can be seamless, but critically:
  • a roadmap that included reinvention of the mobile phone and defining the future of mobile media and computing should include transferring mobile 'phone calls …


Elsewhere (beyond the apple.com domain)

The Complete History of the WWDC Keynote | Mac|Life (2010-06-04)

The 10 most significant Apple keynotes | Macworld (2013-06-05)

WWDC history: Apple's product launches from the past 10 years - News - Macworld UK (2015-04-16)
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Original iBooks

… the shopkeeper was focused on that one thing of rare beauty. …

Certainly one of the most uniquely designed laptops ever …

I strolled past the same shop, after closing time yesterday and again: the iBook was the centre of attention. Not only the shopkeeper, but someone else behind the counter; they had the keyboard off, seeking something like a CMOS battery. (I took the opportunity to glance inside and see what was probably a slot for an AirPort card.) As it turned out, no such battery. And I found a 2010 video from someone who paid just NZD $5 for a similar model.

iMac G4

… My favorite Apple design of all time …

Again, strangely, we never had one in our department. But colleagues jumped at the opportunities when that type of Mac was given away by other departments, and now those Macs are unusable but no-one is prepared to dispose of them.

For readers who are unfamiliar with the iMac G4, two images from Wikipedia:


For external/overall beauty of hardware, I agree that it was the most beautiful of desktop Macs.

Power Mac G5

For internal tangible beauty, my favourite was probably the first Power Mac G5:

indexopensideanim06232003.gif


We have one that should be disposed of according to the WEEE Directive but its likely next step will be home with me where I'll replace its failed hard disk drive and toy with FreeBSD or Linux.
 

redheeler

macrumors G3
Oct 17, 2014
8,587
9,184
Colorado, USA
Power Mac G5

For internal tangible beauty, my favourite was probably the first Power Mac G5:

indexopensideanim06232003.gif


We have one that should be disposed of according to the WEEE Directive but its likely next step will be home with me where I'll replace its failed hard disk drive and toy with FreeBSD or Linux.
The Power Mac G5 is also one of my favorites. The aluminum case design was so far ahead of its time that a similar form was used in G5s and Mac Pros for 10 years!

I currently have 3 of them, all running Mac OS X Leopard (haven't seen the need to touch one with a PowerPC flavor of Linux, but it might make an interesting project)
smile-graphite-png.566471
 
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melendezest

Suspended
Jan 28, 2010
1,693
1,579
Everyone on this thread has brought up some good points. I tend to agree with those that posit that Apple has lost a step or 20 in recent years.

For me, it's been a gradual, steady process that started around when Steve died.

First, it was the move to their new OS design language. I find iOS 7 (and now Yosemite) vastly inferior to their predecessors aesthetically. And when it comes to Apple, aesthetics is what brought me to the table in the first place. I know the hardcore prefer Snow Leopard (and rightly so), but Mountain Lion and iOS 6 were the perfect combo for me.

Skeuomorphism in OS X and iOS was beautiful, detailed, and intuitive. Now it's been replaced with Google-like austerity, simplicity, and Spartan-like cold functionality. I feel Google does that better, so I use that instead of Apple's version. And I also prefer Windows flat approach over Apple's; it is both original, fresh, and far more interesting aesthetically in my opinion.

Apple also started to really lock down their walled garden when I couldn't even go back to the iOS version that I loved and came with my phone.

Then they killed-off of the CMBPs (the 17" especially), and with it easily accessible and replaceable internal components, which they carried onto...

The killing of the Mac Pro, turning it into a super-niche-closed-box.

Why not sell all these alongside the niche and ultrabook (i.e.Retina MBPs) variants? They still sell the (unacceptably crippled and un-updated) 13" cMBP!!

Finally, the Mac Mini became what it is today. Sigh.

So I don't even watch keynotes anymore. My fragmented ecosystem works just fine, and I refuse to be locked down ever again. Apple simply doesn't make anything I want anymore. They can keep their ridiculous watch.

In short, I like the classic, Steve Jobs-Apple. The new Apple? Not so much, if at all.

As a side note:

The PowerMac G4 remains to this day as the most beautiful computer I have ever seen. If Apple ever built a 27" variant (or even a 20" like they used to) with Mac Mini internals (without soldering everything down), I'd stand in line to buy one--which I've never done for any product.

My first Mac was a 17" Powerbook G4 1GHz--the first 17 they released.

It's fitting that my last Mac may be the last 17" they did.
 

ProjectManager101

Suspended
Jul 12, 2015
458
722
They just care about the share holders and making money.
iOS and OS X have had no real exciting innovation for ages, Tim Cook said in a town hall meeting they are struggling to adapt to being a leader, its much easier to be in the pack looking up.

You are a leader or not, Tim Cook is a manger, no a leader. You can have him seating beside you at a coffee place and "look, there is this Tim Cook" and that is it. No one knew who he was until Jobs mentioned him. So, being a leader in innovation is not his nature at all. All he has done is to make things thinner and with less ports when no one ever asked for it. And yes, Apple needs to come up with stuff because of the investors but Apple's era on changing the world is gone, it was cremated.
 
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utahman130

macrumors 65816
Jun 7, 2012
1,043
132
I just want smoothness on Mac and iPhone again, that's it. I'm fine with Apple being boring for a while while they sort out issues with their OS. The fact that my friend's Moto G is smoother scrolling in apps than my 6 Plus is ridiculous.
 
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ZircoBen

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2015
186
200
Utah, USA
For now, I'm fine with Apple being boring.

Microsoft's approach to the unification of mobile and desktop results in crap mobile apps on the desktop and complicated, ugly UI on the phone. Apple's separation of the the two, allowing them to mature and evolve separately is creating a far better expierience overall.

I do wish Apple would step out of their comfort zone more of course, but they have a lot going right and I like that.
 

ZircoBen

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2015
186
200
Utah, USA
I see Apple moving in the same direction as MS, OS X has become a lot more like iOS.

True, but at this point Microsoft is actually converging the two, with the same app store and code base, and honestly it's making for a mess. No desktop user wants to use mobile-optimized apps.

Apple is making them look similar and act similar, but they and evolve on their own.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
… The PowerMac G4 remains to this day as the most beautiful computer I have ever seen. If Apple ever built a 27" variant …

I guess that was meant to be iMac G4 (with an integral display).

Back to Power Mac hardware, for a moment: I never had an intel, but the 2001 Macintosh® Server G4 was extraordinary (Apple - Press Info - Apple Introduces Mac OS X Server). Other Power Macs were more powerful, but that first Server G4 was – still is – outstanding in a way that's difficult to describe. In the past I sometimes used the word crisp … does anyone who had a Server G4 know what I mean?
 

AFEPPL

macrumors 68030
Sep 30, 2014
2,644
1,571
England
You are a leader or not, Tim Cook is a manger, no a leader. You can have him seating beside you at a coffee place and "look, there is this Tim Cook" and that is it. No one knew who he was until Jobs mentioned him. So, being a leader in innovation is not his nature at all. All he has done is to make things thinner and with less ports when no one ever asked for it. And yes, Apple needs to come up with stuff because of the investors but Apple's era on changing the world is gone, it was cremated.

Yep - hence why apple is now moving to music, pay, watches - they simple cant or haven't got the innovations in the pipe.
I actually think MS are the new apple, the products are more stable and the windows 8 interface was a leap forward if somewhat lacking in smooth operation. Im looking forward to windows 10.. Ive not said that about an OS X or iOS release for a while!
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Apple leadership

… Tim Cook is a manger, no a leader. …

From an Apple press perspective, all of the two dozen people at http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ fall under the heading of leadership.

(I imagined a ship of leaders, or a ship that leads (ahead of other ships), but I was wrong. etymology - Is there any relation between the suffix "-ship" and actual ships? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange)


Apple and innovation

… cant or haven't got the innovations in the pipe. …

I wonder.

… If a 'new Apple' presents itself to me in a sterile way, maybe that's because the fast-and-loose stuff is so strictly under wraps.

Also, in no particular order:

Is there any chance Apple will innovate again?

Iconic - A Photographic Tribute to Apple Innovation

From Apple's Culture is actually not that creative.:

Its apple's way or the highway. That's how they treat the customers so its no surprise its strict internally as well. Whether that inhibits innovation/creativity is another aspect. So far they've not had problems with creativity, but now that Steve's been gone for several years the proof will be in the pudding regarding any new products.

iPhone, iPod, iPad, Apple Watch – iOS – iOS 9 – … Utterly Devoid of Innovation

Mac OS X for phone/voice calls: progress in the decade since Panther

… bodes poorly for the quality of future products - one of the reasons I have very little faith in the Apple watch - it's a product born out of shareholder demands - not out of innovation. …

Why OS X? It took me a few weeks to get close to the cores of my passion for Apple's operating system. I now realise that those core values include a pleasing blend of coherence, consistency, constancy and innovation. …

… My overall impressions of development of the interface to Yosemite are: a crazy excess of change for the sake of change (not innovation); no longer a single, shared vision of OS X; abandonment of some of the essential human interface guidelines (HIG); …

… Emphases included innovation and collaboration.

I must be blunt:
  • the looks of Yosemite stank of contention, stank of resistance within and between teams
– the hallmarks of true collaboration are missing. …

Last but not least:
 

maxsix

Suspended
Jun 28, 2015
3,100
3,731
Western Hemisphere
I see Apple moving in the same direction as MS, OS X has become a lot more like iOS.
I agree with your concise statement.

Most unsettling, yet not surprising, is how fast Apple is blending iOS and OS X together. It's completely contrary to posts from so many in the past that said it wasn't going to happen. Making a mashup of the two dilutes the goodness that was OS X.

No matter the specifics, the overall impression is they are dumbing down OS X.

It's iToys. ARGH...
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Directions

… where Apple is heading, I can not find any concept in their product line lately. …

From one of the mixed approaches to press (above), I guess that Apple wishes to move towards portrayal of:
  1. breakthroughs in provision of service – iCloud, stores, music, Apple Pay and so on
  2. world-leading innovation in hardware – four classes of device
  3. seamlessness in combined use of three operating systems – not limited to those four classes of device.
There's also the closing phrase – "… employees are dedicated to making the best products on earth, and to leaving the world better than we found it." – but that's more nebulous. It might have feel-good factor, but the phrase doesn't help us to understand where Apple is heading.

… completely contrary …

A thumb up, but I shouldn't describe the changes of direction as completely contrary to past statements by Apple. I'll revisit that, with a link to prior discussion …


Postscript

As promised, the revisit: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21591923
 
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maxsix

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Directions



From one of the mixed approaches to press (above), I guess that Apple wishes to move towards portrayal of:
  1. breakthroughs in provision of service – iCloud, stores, music, Apple Pay and so on
  2. world-leading innovation in hardware – four classes of device
  3. seamlessness in combined use of three operating systems – not limited to those four classes of device.
There's also the closing phrase – "… employees are dedicated to making the best products on earth, and to leaving the world better than we found it." – but that's more nebulous. It might have feel-good factor, but the phrase doesn't help us to understand where Apple is heading.



A thumb up, but I shouldn't describe the changes of direction as completely contrary to past statements by Apple. I'll revisit that, with a link to prior discussion …
I like Apple a lot. I've seriously invested in the ecosystem, plus we use the platform (OS X) at work. I'll be the first to admit as a dedicated power user (that's not boasting, just fact) that I'm very business oriented and make my living computing, not playing. That's why I may be overly harsh when forming an opinion on the influence and incorporation of iOS "features" into OS X.
 
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MarsViolet

macrumors 6502
Mar 6, 2003
415
361
Define real computer.

One which exposes advanced functionality rather than hiding or eliminating it.

One which assumes the user is capable rather than incompetent.

One tailored for content creators rather than for consumers.

Of course, what a lot of us are forgetting is that the original Macintosh was never intended to be a real computer. It was the computer for the rest of us. But since that time it has grown and expanded to become a serious tool for people who actually do things other than text and take selfies. OS X isn't even related to that original operating system we used to call the Mac OS. It began as a far more advanced and serious operating system than the Apple efforts which came before it, so for we who celebrated the NeXT acquisition, it's been painful to see Apple systematically rejigger it for the text-and-selfies crowd which never wanted a real computer anyway.
 
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