When I think about it, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone

[animalx]

I was talking with a friend of mine, and I told him there are several phones that are better than the iPhone. Once I started naming some, I realized the iPhone isn't even in the top 10. In no particular order, here are 10 phones I rank ahead of the iPhone.

• Galaxy S4
• Galaxy Note 2
• HTC One
• Nexus 4
• Optimus G Pro
• Optimus G
• Galaxy S3
• Razr Maxx HD
• Galaxy Note
• HTC One X+

 

[bgro]

When I think about it, i realize I just wasted 30 seconds of my life.

 

[onthecouchagain]

I think the iPhone 5 easily qualifies as top 10. It does offer a few special things.

But it's getting harder (I'd even go as far to say, near impossible) to argue that it's top 1, maybe even top 3, anymore.

There was once a time when it was #1 and people easily could say so and prove it so and demonstrate it as such. Back when [miraculously] people weren't worried about relativeness or preferences! Back when if I said iPhone and iOS are the best smartphones and best operating systems (and I did), people would just agree. No problem.

But now... if I say Android is the better platform, suddenly, people throw their arms up in the air and shout "You can't say that Couch. Objectivity [suddenly] doesn't count. It's all preferences! Preference this, preference that." It's possible to say objectively an OS is better than the other. It's also possible to say subjectively that an OS is better than the other. You can do both. And you need to.

It's gotten harder and harder to defend/recommend iOS. It's definitely not the top anymore with the exception of a few very specific strengths. It is top 10, though.

 

[lbhskier37]

Except it has sold more than all ten of those combined.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

I think the iPhone 5 easily qualifies as top 10. It does offer a few special things.

But it's getting harder (I'd even go as far to say, near impossible) to argue that it's top 1, maybe even top 3, anymore.

There was once a time when it was #1 and people easily could say so and prove it so and demonstrate it as such. Back when [miraculously] people weren't worried about relativeness or preferences! Back when if I said iPhone and iOS are the best smartphones and best operating systems (and I did), people would just agree. No problem.

But now... if I say Android is the better platform, suddenly, people throw their arms up in the air and shout "You can't say that Couch. Objectivity [suddenly] doesn't count. It's all preferences! Preference this, preference that." It's possible to say objectively an OS is better than the other. It's also possible to say subjectively that an OS is better than the other. You can do both. And you need to.

It's gotten harder and harder to defend/recommend iOS. It's definitely not the top anymore with the exception of a few very specific strengths. It is top 10, though.

As strange as this may sound, I can agree with both you and the OP. With the list the OP made, I think you can make a case for any of those phones being better than the iPhone 5. On the other hand, I think a couple phones on that list, you could make a case for the iPhone POSSIBLY being better than (One X+ for example). In that case, the iPhone would be a top 10 phone, though at the bottom of that list. That said, I definitely don't think it's a top 5 phone. The HTC One, Galaxy 4, Optimus G, Optimus G Pro, and Galaxy Note 2 are all CLEARLY better phones.

----------

Except it has sold more than all ten of those combined.

You're seriously saying the iPhone 5 sold more than all ten of those phones combined? I'd like to see something to support that statement lol.

 

[Dontazemebro]

I think the iPhone 5 easily qualifies as top 10. It does offer a few special things.

But it's getting harder (I'd even go as far to say, near impossible) to argue that it's top 1, maybe even top 3, anymore.

There was once a time when it was #1 and people easily could say so and prove it so and demonstrate it as such. Back when [miraculously] people weren't worried about relativeness or preferences! Back when if I said iPhone and iOS are the best smartphones and best operating systems (and I did), people would just agree. No problem.

But now... if I say Android is the better platform, suddenly, people throw their arms up in the air and shout "You can't say that Couch. Objectivity [suddenly] doesn't count. It's all preferences! Preference this, preference that." It's possible to say objectively an OS is better than the other. It's also possible to say subjectively that an OS is better than the other. You can do both. And you need to.

It's gotten harder and harder to defend/recommend iOS. It's definitely not the top anymore with the exception of a few very specific strengths. It is top 10, though.

Well duh, you're on an apple forum.

Some don't take well to getting the snot beat out of them in their own backyard.

 

[onthecouchagain]

As strange as this may sound, I can agree with both you and the OP. With the list the OP made, I think you can make a case for any of those phones being better than the iPhone 5. On the other hand, I think a couple phones on that list, you could make a case for the iPhone POSSIBLY being better than (One X+ for example). In that case, the iPhone would be a top 10 phone, though at the bottom of that list. That said, I definitely don't think it's a top 5 phone. The HTC One, Galaxy 4, Optimus G, Optimus G Pro, and Galaxy Note 2 are all CLEARLY better phones.

I haven't used most of those phones in depth so I won't speak on their behalf, but this does go to show my point that it's getting harder and harder to defend the iPhone (and by extension, iOS) as the top. Like you said, it'd be hard even to defend it in the top 5.

It's high time people got real about iOS shortcomings, and stopped chocking it up to just a "different way of doing things" or "a matter of preference" etc.

iOS could be so much better. I've said this many times before: even if Android didn't exist, iOS would still need major improvements. Just look at the jailbreak community and what they've done. iOS could be so much more than it is.

----------

Well duh, you're on an apple forum.

Some don't take well to getting the snot beat out of them in their own backyard.

Aye. And they do so at their own smartphone-demise.

No other company would get away with pulling the same things that Apple pulls.

Imagine for a moment if it was Samsung (or HTC, Motorola, whoever) that all decided to stay with a 3.5" phone for four or five (or whatever the number is) years. And imagine if it was Apple that offered 3.5", 4", 4.3", 4.5", 4.7" and even 5" phones as the years went by? Puh-leaze. The arguments would be completely flip-flopped and every Apple fan would destroy and ridicule Android OEMs to no end for sticking it out with 3.5" phones. And this is just using one example. Imagine if Android OEMs stuck with one hardware button, while Apple moved onto capacitive and/or on screen buttons. Imagine what would be said about that. Imagine if Apple offered SD expansions and Android OEMs refused to? Or notification lights while Android OEMs refused to?

And so on and so forth...

----------

When I think about it, i realize I just wasted 30 seconds of my life.

You wasted even more by posting in it.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

No other company would get away with pulling the same things that Apple pulls.

Imagine for a moment if it was Samsung (or HTC, Motorola, whoever) that all decided to stay with a 3.5" phone for four or five (or whatever the number is) years. And imagine if it was Apple that offered 3.5", 4", 4.3", 4.5", 4.7" and even 5" phones as the years went by? Puh-leaze. The arguments would be completely flip-flopped and every Apple fan would destroy and ridicule Android OEMs to no end for sticking it out with 3.5" phones. And this is just using one example. Imagine if Android OEMs stuck with one hardware button, while Apple moved onto capacitive and/or on screen buttons. Imagine what would be said about that. Imagine if Apple offered SD expansions and Android OEMs refused to? Or notification lights while Android OEMs refused to?

And so on and so forth...

This post is so full of win. Absolutely spot on, Couch. Kudos to you. :thumbup:

 

[Shadow Puppy]

I haven't used most of those phones in depth so I won't speak on their behalf, but this does go to show my point that it's getting harder and harder to defend the iPhone (and by extension, iOS) as the top. Like you said, it'd be hard even to defend it in the top 5.

It's high time people got real about iOS shortcomings, and stopped chocking it up to just a "different way of doing things" or "a matter of preference" etc.

iOS could be so much better. I've said this many times before: even if Android didn't exist, iOS would still need major improvements. Just look at the jailbreak community and what they've done. iOS could be so much more than it is.

----------


It's crazy to me how much Apple holds iOS back. I think it has the potential to be a very good OS, but they needlessly limit it. With the horsepower the iPhone 5 is packing, there is no reason for it to not take advantage of it. Android phones such as the GS4, the One,and the Nexus pack some impressive horesepower, and have software running that takes advantage of it.

Imagine for a moment if it was Samsung (or HTC, Motorola, whoever) that all decided to stay with a 3.5" phone for four or five (or whatever the number is) years. And imagine if it was Apple that offered 3.5", 4", 4.3", 4.5", 4.7" and even 5" phones as the years went by? Puh-leaze. The arguments would be completely flip-flopped and every Apple fan would destroy and ridicule Android OEMs to no end for sticking it out with 3.5" phones. And this is just using one example. Imagine if Android OEMs stuck with one hardware button, while Apple moved onto capacitive and/or on screen buttons. Imagine what would be said about that. Imagine if Apple offered SD expansions and Android OEMs refused to? Or notification lights while Android OEMs refused to?

You are beyond correct! If Apple introduced NFC, and people could tap to transfer files, or automate their phone, or make purchases and Android didn't have it, iPhones would be constantly talking about how dated the Android platform is.

 

[ReanimationN]

But now... if I say Android is the better platform, suddenly, people throw their arms up in the air and shout "You can't say that Couch. Objectivity [suddenly] doesn't count. It's all preferences! Preference this, preference that." It's possible to say objectively an OS is better than the other. It's also possible to say subjectively that an OS is better than the other. You can do both. And you need to.

God, not this again. Sure, you can say that one OS is objectively better than the other, but that's not going to make it true. It will remain your (subjective) opinion.

 

[onthecouchagain]

God, not this again. Sure, you can say that one OS is objectively better than the other, but that's not going to make it true. It will remain your (subjective) opinion.

Okay, so I'm not saying because we say an OS is objectively better, it's true in the sense that it's infinitely true all throughout the universe. Is that what you mean by "true"? Because if not, what's the point of constantly pointing out things are subjective opinions?

Again, I'm happy to say any OS system is "better" than another. And did so happily a mere 1.5 to 2 years ago when I would speak about the iPhone and iOS. No one seemed to have a problem then regarding subjectivity or relative use. Now it seems we can't say Android is better for fear of stomping on people's preferences and subjectivity. I'm not saying these things don't exist anymore; they of course still do, as they did two years ago when iOS was the better OS. Why are people so sensitive about saying Android is the better OS but not when people say iOS is the better OS? It's okay to admit one is better than the other without having to constantly reference preferences.

I used to constantly recommend the iPhone/iOS to people. Now, I rarely ever do. Friends, colleagues and family that know me come to me for advice regarding tech all the time. I tell them the same thing, that the times have changed and that at this point and time, Android is the better option unless there are very specific reasons why the iPhone would be better suited.

If we're interested in discussing where and how iOS could improve, we need to stop being so sensitive about pointing out its shortcomings. If we always chock it up to preference, then we'd just cancel each other out. Preference still exists, mind you, but again, depending on the discussion, sometimes it's okay to let it sit at the sidelines. Otherwise, one person will say I prefer this, and another person will say, well I don't and I prefer it the complete other way. And if all we can go on is preference, then the conversation is over. There's no more room to discuss improvements.

Understand that I do this with Android too. Dig through my post history. I've pointed out plenty of shortcomings of Android stock or otherwise, and of its manufacturers, from Samsung to HTC to LG. I've even criticize Google directly for some of their foolishness, too.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

Okay, so I'm not saying because we say an OS is objectively better, it's true in the sense that it's infinitely true all throughout the universe. Is that what you mean by "true"? Because if not, what's the point of constantly pointing out things are subjective opinions?

Again, I'm happy to say any OS system is "better" than another. And did so happily a mere 1.5 to 2 years ago when I would speak about the iPhone and iOS. No one seemed to have a problem then regarding subjectivity or relative use. Now it seems we can't say Android is better for fear of stomping on people's preferences and subjectivity. I'm not saying these things don't exist anymore; they of course still do, as they did two years ago when iOS was the better OS. Why are people so sensitive about saying Android is the better OS but not when people say iOS is the better OS? It's okay to admit one is better than the other without having to constantly reference preferences.

I used to constantly recommend the iPhone/iOS to people. Now, I rarely ever do. Friends, colleagues and family that know me come to me for advice regarding tech all the time. I tell them the same thing, that the times have changed and that at this point and time, Android is the better option unless there are very specific reasons why the iPhone would be better suited.

If we're interested in discussing where and how iOS could improve, we need to stop being so sensitive about pointing out its shortcomings. If we always chock it up to preference, then we'd just cancel each other out. Preference still exists, mind you, but again, depending on the discussion, sometimes it's okay to let it sit at the sidelines. Otherwise, one person will say I prefer this, and another person will say, well I don't and I prefer it the complete other way. And if all we can go on is preference, then the conversation is over. There's no more room to discuss improvements.

Understand that I do this with Android too. Dig through my post history. I've pointed out plenty of shortcomings of Android stock or otherwise, and of its manufacturers, from Samsung to HTC to LG. I've even criticize Google directly for some of their foolishness, too.

You're right, people love to hide behind the "it's just a preference" defense. Let's be real, not being able to select your own browser isn't something a person just plain prefers. No logical explanation can be made to explain why a person would say they prefer not having a choice of which browser they'd like to use by default. Things like that cannot be defended simply by saying "it's a preference".

 

[tech4all]

I was talking with a friend of mine, and I told him there are several phones that are better than the iPhone. Once I started naming some, I realized the iPhone isn't even in the top 10. In no particular order, here are 10 phones I rank ahead of the iPhone.

• Galaxy S4
• Galaxy Note 2
• HTC One
• Nexus 4
• Optimus G Pro
• Optimus G
• Galaxy S3
• Razr Maxx HD
• Galaxy Note
• HTC One X+

While I don't care for iOS, I think you're being a bit unfair there. Yea iOS is behind and getting stale, but I don't think it's THAT bad.

Except it has sold more than all ten of those combined.

Source?

 

[zbarvian]

Weird, my top 10 list is different than yours, and the iPhone 5 is in it. If I am to buy into the argument that smartphone OSes can objectively be claimed superior, then I must be either misguided or irrational in my preferences. As long as both platforms have different strengths, they can both be better. It comes down to subjectivity, and that's only talking software...

 

[animalx]

While I don't care for iOS, I think you're being a bit unfair there. Yea iOS is behind and getting stale, but I don't think it's THAT bad.

I don't think I'm being unfair at all. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it just isn't in the top 10. Honestly, the iPhone 5 is probably more so a mid range smartphone. Like someone else said on this post, 5 of those on this list are hands down better devices, and you really can only argue the iPhone 5 is better than maybe one or two phones on that list. You MIGHT be able to squeeze the iPhone into the top 5 if you replaced the One X+ with it, and that's still a maybe. To be fair, you MIGHT be able to make a case for the iPhone there. As for the other 9, it definitely comes behind them. I'm not being hard on iOS, I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

Weird, my top 10 list is different than yours, and the iPhone 5 is in it. If I am to buy into the argument that smartphone OSes can objectively be claimed superior, then I must be either misguided or irrational in my preferences. As long as both platforms have different strengths, they can both be better. It comes down to subjectivity, and that's only talking software...

Out of curiosity, what would your top 10 look like?

 

[ReanimationN]

Okay, so I'm not saying because we say an OS is objectively better, it's true in the sense that it's infinitely true all throughout the universe. Is that what you mean by "true"? Because if not, what's the point of constantly pointing out things are subjective opinions?

Because you are constantly pressing your opinions upon us as being fact. You believe Android is superior, that's nice, but don't try and claim that your belief of Android being the better OS is somehow objective fact.

Again, I'm happy to say any OS system is "better" than another. And did so happily a mere 1.5 to 2 years ago when I would speak about the iPhone and iOS. No one seemed to have a problem then regarding subjectivity or relative use. Now it seems we can't say Android is better for fear of stomping on people's preferences and subjectivity. I'm not saying these things don't exist anymore; they of course still do, as they did two years ago when iOS was the better OS. Why are people so sensitive about saying Android is the better OS but not when people say iOS is the better OS? It's okay to admit one is better than the other without having to constantly reference preferences.

I've explained this before. You value certain things in your mobile operating systems, and that's fine- for you, Android's the better OS. Not everyone is going to value what you value though, some people are going to value things that, for them, makes iOS the better OS.

If we're interested in discussing where and how iOS could improve, we need to stop being so sensitive about pointing out its shortcomings. If we always chock it up to preference, then we'd just cancel each other out. Preference still exists, mind you, but again, depending on the discussion, sometimes it's okay to let it sit at the sidelines. Otherwise, one person will say I prefer this, and another person will say, well I don't and I prefer it the complete other way. And if all we can go on is preference, then the conversation is over. There's no more room to discuss improvements.

As I've said before, it's all ultimately subjective- it's always going to come down to preference. That doesn't make these discussions meaningless, as you claim. Night Spring said it best in another thread:

On the question of why we discuss things when ultimately it comes down to everyone's preferences, well, for one thing, it can be interesting to hear about how people's preferences differ from my own. Second, people can ask for help in finding which device or OS better fit their preferences. "I want a device to do X,Y and Z. Should I get a laptop, tablet or smartphone?" And then people can say, "Well, for X, a tablet is better, but for Y, a smartphone might be better... Which is more important for you, X or Y?" And that's a meaningful discussion.

 

[zbarvian]

Out of curiosity, what would your top 10 look like?

Tie for first between One and 5, then Nexus 4, then Maxx HD, then some other less notable ones.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

Tie for first between One and 5, then Nexus 4, then Maxx HD, then some other less notable ones.

The GS4 isn't on your list?

 

[tjl3]

Meh, I prefer iOS in every regard, and half of those phones would not make my top 10. But ReanimationN is absolutely correct.

If iPhone was so bad, you wouldn't be here arguing about it. In fact, you'd likely be on an actual Android forum talking about Android phones only. Too many people also over exaggerating the usefulness of some Android features just because they 'need' it.

Also, when was the last time you heard anything about the Razr Maxx, Note 1, One X+, or Optimus G.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Am I the only one who doesn't put the iPhone in the same category? Since iPhone's 2007 release, I always thought of it as a "dumb phone"(for lack of a better phrase) with smartphone capabilities and awesome hardware. This is mainly cause I was already use to the openness of WM phones and treated them like mini PCs.

4 main reasons I went from WM to the iPhone.

Bigger and capacitive screen
Better Browser (unmatched until probably 2010)
Reliability
Biggest internal memory

but I lost plenty of functionality, which I didn't mind at the time cause there was nothing like the iPhone. I remember not even having copy n paste. Still switched back n forth until exchange was supported.

Nowadays, Android phones provide me with the same reasons I went to an iPhone, and also has the functionality/openness of my old school WM phones.

So being that said .... I'll always consider the iPhone a great phone and OS, but I never considered it a true smartphone in the traditional sense.


Bracing myself for the quick jabs .....

 

[thehustleman]

I was talking with a friend of mine, and I told him there are several phones that are better than the iPhone. Once I started naming some, I realized the iPhone isn't even in the top 10. In no particular order, here are 10 phones I rank ahead of the iPhone.

• Galaxy S4
• Galaxy Note 2
• HTC One
• Nexus 4
• Optimus G Pro
• Optimus G
• Galaxy S3
• Razr Maxx HD
• Galaxy Note
• HTC One X+

Great list, you're right though, those are all better phones.

Don't forget the lumia 920 though

 

[ReanimationN]

You're right, people love to hide behind the "it's just a preference" defense. Let's be real, not being able to select your own browser isn't something a person just plain prefers. No logical explanation can be made to explain why a person would say they prefer not having a choice of which browser they'd like to use by default. Things like that cannot be defended simply by saying "it's a preference".

That's not how most people who prefer iOS would think (maybe there's a few who do, I don't know of any)- as someone who prefers iOS I can tell you that the ability to select my own browser is unimportant to me. I don't 'prefer' it that way, I just don't care- it's not important to me. The ability to change a browser doesn't factor into my head when buying a phone. What I do care about is things like, for example, how a phone feels to use. As an example of that, I can't handle how you edit text on Android devices- those caliper things that are used to select text are awful, whenever I'd try to edit something I'd written on my N7, I'd begin this long and irritating battle to try and position the text editing calipers that would usually culminate in me giving up and finding another way of doing what I wanted to do (e.g. just rewriting lines that I wanted to cut and move into a different location). The calipers always had minds of their own- they'd jump wildly from position to position, back to where I started selecting text, back to somewhere close to where I wanted to go, back a couple of lines and so on. The iOS version works like a dream in comparison- it has its own irritations, but jeez it's just much, much more usable.

Android is full of little irritations like that that make it feel second rate compared to iOS (to me ), another example is how some videos when played in the browser will open. Some open a UI somewhat similar to the UI the iPhone uses when playing a video through the browser, you have a position marker you can drag to a certain time in the video, media controls etc, but then some videos open in a different UI where you can't slide a marker to a position in the video, instead you have to tap on a position on the timeline. I'd always go to drag the marker on these videos and end up making the video jump all over the place. On the iPhone, all videos open and use the same UI in the browser- I love that UI and the consistency.

Now you may not care about the things I mentioned, they may not bother you at all, and that's the point. We're all going to value different things.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

Meh, I prefer iOS in every regard, and half of those phones would not make my top 10.

That's an interesting statement. What 5 phones would you put in there, and what phones would they replace. I thought his list was pretty solid, but I'd love to hear what 5 phones you'd add.

Too many people also over exaggerating the usefulness of some Android features just because they 'need' it.

I'd say too many people are downplaying various features to compensate for their absence in the device they carry.

Also, when was the last time you heard anything about the Razr Maxx, Note 1, One X+, or Optimus G.

I don't hear people talk about Maserati very much, but it's still a better car than a Ford. Whether it's being talked about often or not, doesn't change the quality of the device.

 

[zbarvian]

The GS4 isn't on your list?

Nope. If it is, it's near the bottom.