When I think about it, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone

[kasakka]

Actually the galaxy s III has INCREDIBLE build quality.

Nothing has stopped working, fallen apart, gotten stuck (home or power buttons etc) or anything like that. This phone is lightweight, yet built like a tank with very good build quality.

Don't let the plastic fool you, this thing is one of the highest quality built phones out there

Yet the somewhat shiny, somewhat slippery plastic is what you notice about the S3 first. The S4 isn't much better in this area, both have a certain cheapness to them. By comparison I haven't heard anybody mention for example the material used in the Nokia Lumias so it's not like a plastic case can't be done right. It just has to look and feel good in your hand. That doesn't mean your Galaxy S xxx will fall apart, it's just about how people perceive the phone.

The iPhone is a testament to good product design. It hasn't changed much from the 4 and likewise iOS hasn't changed much either. It has not required huge changes because how it works is intuitive and easy. Most people do prefer something that doesn't get in the way and "just works". Unfortunately this is not so good for the enthusiast who wants to customize, extend and personalize. These are the same folks who find it "stale" because it isn't "the new thing", something to wow them for the short run. But it doesn't have to be, it still works fine. Likewise the hardware is solid but again won't impress those who want "the new thing".

That said, the apps running on iOS have changed. There are now a lot more apps that would be great replacements for the default apps but the functionality to make them default is not there unless you jailbreak. Same thing is happening when trying to communicate between different apps, it's just awkward. I hope Apple does something about this in iOS 7.

I'm looking to buy an Android phone for my next one as I'm tired of having to deal with jailbreaks to make my iPhone 4 work like I want. Unfortunately at the moment nobody makes the Android phone for me: smaller physical size, reasonably powerful, high res display (at least 720p), good battery life. I'm hoping the HTC M4 would be that or Google announces something at Google I/O, but we'll have to see.

 

[ReanimationN]

I've never said those conversations aren't worth having. Night Spring points out exactly why they're worth having.

I'm simply saying, there can also be a discussion where preferences just doesn't (and shouldn't) matter as much. They do cancel each other out when you're discussing ways to improve the OS. I might want, for example, the ability to choose a default browser. You might not as you've so stated. If preferences are all that matter, then the conversation is dead. I'll explain why I want to choose a default browser and you'll explain why you don't. There's value in that conversation, but not much when the point of the conversation is how to improve said operating system.

The very nature of such a conversation is laden with subjectivity and personal bias.

The question- how can iOS improve?

Android fan- "The ability to choose program defaults! The ability to change keyboards! A variety of hardware to choose from!

Someone who is a fan of iOS and likes the way it works- "I don't place any value on those things, I don't care if they're in there. Sure, you can add them, but it's not going to improve the experience for me."

Another question- how can Android improve?

iOS fan- "Get touch response up to iPhone levels! Improve the general framerate, I hate seeing stutters! Work on providing a more cohesive experience- text editing is a chore, videos open up in 2 different UIs that function differently, a lot apps are built on old APIs that provide a horrible experience, get them up to speed!"

Android fan- "None of that affects me, I'm fine with the app quality and how the OS works. Sure, you can work on it, but I'm fine with how it is, it's not really going to affect me."

But if the conversation has a more objective perspective and becomes "should the operating system allow people to choose the default browser regardless of whether they need it or not?" then you're starting to get somewhere. I don't see how that answer shouldn't be a yes no matter what anyone feels about that feature.

Thanks to what you value.

How about the question- "should the operating system always feature fluid, fast performance with the most consistent frame rate possible, regardless of other features the OS or phone may have?"
I don't see how that answer shouldn't be a yes no matter what, yet there's still multitudes of Android devices that people love that feature jerky performance, subpar touch response (compared to the competition) etc. and they aren't wrong in doing so! They value different things in their phones to what I do.

Seriously, it's okay to say an operating system is better than the other.

It is, but all you're doing is stating an opinion.

What's wrong with having the option to change default browser? The only way you can argue there's anything wrong with it is from a subjective perspective. That's what defending iOS has become; preferring less.

There's nothing wrong with it, some people just don't place any value on it.
What's wrong with having excellent touch response and a fast, fluid experience with the least possible amount of frame rate drops? Why would you choose something that doesn't provide that? Why would you prefer something that provides a lesser experience? The answer is that these issues don't affect you, they don't irk you like they do me (and others), you don't place the same value on them that I do- they don't add up to a lesser experience in your mind. As such, you don't believe that what makes one OS the better OS objectively should be defined by such measurements. Instead you believe other things that you value should be- whether default programs can be set, the number of taps to do things that you like to do and so on. What you value as an objective measurement is completely subjective in itself.

It's just a way to realize that iOS needs a lot of improvement and to recognize that the competition has done something special.

Again, in your opinion. (Although I'm not going to deny that iOS has become stale and needs improvement, although I think Android needs a lot of work as well- it's a sub par experience in my opinion.)

 

[bembol]

It's in MY Top 5

hTc One
Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Samsung Galaxy S4
Apple iPhone 5
LG nexus 4

 

[ucfgrad93]

I was talking with a friend of mine, and I told him there are several phones that are better than the iPhone. Once I started naming some, I realized the iPhone isn't even in the top 10. In no particular order, here are 10 phones I rank ahead of the iPhone.

• Galaxy S4
• Galaxy Note 2
• HTC One
• Nexus 4
• Optimus G Pro
• Optimus G
• Galaxy S3
• Razr Maxx HD
• Galaxy Note
• HTC One X+

You should contact David Letterman and let him know you have a Top 10 list for him.

 

[onthecouchagain]

This is such an interesting point. It's true that if Apple had done any of these things, the other manufacturers would jump to copy Apple. But Apple doesn't always jump to copy what other companies do. In fact, they are often the last to adopt a technology, and sometimes they skip it altogether -- for instance, Apple never added a Blu-Ray drive to their Macs, and now it looks like optical drives are done, so no Blu-Ray on Macs, ever.

The thing is, more choice isn't always a good thing, and Apple knows this. When I think of switching over to Android, I feel paralyzed by the sheer number of options out there. By sticking to Apple, I only have one phone to pick. Same with computers. I was interested in trying a Windows 8 device, but there are just so many out there to pick from. At Apple, the options are much fewer, and more clear-cut. If you want the most portable machine, you go for the Air. If you need power, you get the MacBook Pro. Still, picking one is not as simple as just walking in and getting the one iPhone.

Just in general, Apple is a company that understands that sometimes (often?) less is more. Or to put it another way, more is not always better. Now, whether or not this principle applies to a particular situation, such as having or not having the choice to pick a default browser, is debatable. But unless people understand that "less is more" is a valid life philosophy, then any argument we make from this perspective is going to be just labeled as defending the "worse" option. Some of us really do prefer less, hard as that may be to believe.

It's a fair point but the iPhone is an exception in Apple's lineup. I don't (and can't) make the same complaints about their Macs because, as you pointed out, they offer options. So while it's true too many options can be overwhelming, it can be true that some options are better than no options. This is evidenced by Apple's Mac (and iPod, iPad) line ups. But the iPhone has only one current-generation screen size, and that's a shame.

----------

The very nature of such a conversation is laden with subjectivity and personal bias.

The question- how can iOS improve?

Android fan- "The ability to choose program defaults! The ability to change keyboards! A variety of hardware to choose from!

Someone who is a fan of iOS and likes the way it works- "I don't place any value on those things, I don't care if they're in there. Sure, you can add them, but it's not going to improve the experience for me."

Another question- how can Android improve?

iOS fan- "Get touch response up to iPhone levels! Improve the general framerate, I hate seeing stutters! Work on providing a more cohesive experience- text editing is a chore, videos open up in 2 different UIs that function differently, a lot apps are built on old APIs that provide a horrible experience, get them up to speed!"

Android fan- "None of that affects me, I'm fine with the app quality and how the OS works. Sure, you can work on it, but I'm fine with how it is, it's not really going to affect me."

Thanks to what you value.

How about the question- "should the operating system always feature fluid, fast performance with the most consistent frame rate possible, regardless of other features the OS or phone may have?"
I don't see how that answer shouldn't be a yes no matter what, yet there's still multitudes of Android devices that people love that feature jerky performance, subpar touch response (compared to the competition) etc. and they aren't wrong in doing so! They value different things in their phones to what I do.

It is, but all you're doing is stating an opinion.

There's nothing wrong with it, some people just don't place any value on it.
What's wrong with having excellent touch response and a fast, fluid experience with the least possible amount of frame rate drops? Why would you choose something that doesn't provide that? Why would you prefer something that provides a lesser experience? The answer is that these issues don't affect you, they don't irk you like they do me (and others), you don't place the same value on them that I do- they don't add up to a lesser experience in your mind. As such, you don't believe that what makes one OS the better OS objectively should be defined by such measurements. Instead you believe other things that you value should be- whether default programs can be set, the number of taps to do things that you like to do and so on. What you value as an objective measurement is completely subjective in itself.

Again, in your opinion. (Although I'm not going to deny that iOS has become stale and needs improvement, although I think Android needs a lot of work as well- it's a sub par experience in my opinion.)

I seriously don't know how many times I have to say that it's okay to not value the same thing another user might value. That's my whole point is that that sort of conversation is pretty useless. I never said there was anything wrong with preferences, but you're demonstrating precisely why a more objective conversation needs to be had with every example in your post.

I ask again, where were these concerns when people were saying iOS was the best operating system? Magic!

 

[jrswizzle]

It's a fair point but the iPhone is an exception in Apple's lineup. I don't (and can't) make the same complaints about their Macs because, as you pointed out, they offer options. So while it's true too many options can be overwhelming, it can be true that some options are better than no options. This is evidenced by Apple's Mac (and iPod, iPad) line ups. But the iPhone has only one current-generation screen size, and that's a shame.

I don't think we're far off from the "iPod-ing" or "Mac-ing" of the iPhone line.

Heck it just happened to the iPad, I think Apple has been a little more cautious with their cash cow, but now is the time.

We'll see the cheap iPhone, the regular iPhone and the large iPhone. Each updated annually.

----------

It's a fair point but the iPhone is an exception in Apple's lineup. I don't (and can't) make the same complaints about their Macs because, as you pointed out, they offer options. So while it's true too many options can be overwhelming, it can be true that some options are better than no options. This is evidenced by Apple's Mac (and iPod, iPad) line ups. But the iPhone has only one current-generation screen size, and that's a shame.

----------



I seriously don't know how many times I have to say that it's okay to not value the same thing another user might value. That's my whole point is that that sort of conversation is pretty useless. I never said there was anything wrong with preferences, but you're demonstrating precisely why a more objective conversation needs to be had with every example in your post.

I ask again, where were these concerns when people were saying iOS was the best operating system? Magic!

I hate when people assume that because certain people make these types of statements, that somehow all of us making statements about Android are perpetuating a double standard.

The answer to this question for me would be, I don't know. I haven't been a long-time frequenter of these forums and frankly, my attitude about iOS being the best hasn't changed.

Just because you have one person saying its all about preferences when confronted with "Android is the best", doesn't mean they were also championing iOS as the objective winner before. That's an irresponsible generalization.

And I still don't understand why you can't have a legitimate conversation about what needs to change in iOS free from any "one is better" declarations.

Are you saying that if iOS was the only operating system that existed, we'd be incapable of discussing what we wanted changed? What needed to improve?

I think these types of conversations CAN and SHOULD be had in a vacuum of sorts so we can avoid all these defensive nonsense and posturing about which OS is better.

 

[tjl3]

I seriously don't know how many times I have to say that it's okay to not value the same thing another user might value. That's my whole point is that that sort of conversation is pretty useless. I never said there was anything wrong with preferences, but you're demonstrating precisely why a more objective conversation needs to be had with every example in your post.

I ask again, where were these concerns when people were saying iOS was the best operating system? Magic!

But you're stating people are "settling for less," "prefer less," "choose less," which are just not the absolute truth. It's your way of looking at things.

I don't think we're far off from the "iPod-ing" or "Mac-ing" of the iPhone line.

Heck it just happened to the iPad, I think Apple has been a little more cautious with their cash cow, but now is the time.

We'll see the cheap iPhone, the regular iPhone and the large iPhone. Each updated annually.

I doubt we'll ever see a 'regular iPhone' and a 'large iPhone' compete against each other, unless that 'regular iPhone' is the cheap one. They would have to hamstring the larger iPhone for that to make sense.

 

[jrswizzle]

But you're stating people are "settling for less," "prefer less," "choose less," which are just not the absolute truth. It's your way of looking at things.



I doubt we'll ever see a 'regular iPhone' and a 'large iPhone' compete against each other, unless that 'regular iPhone' is the cheap one. They would have to hamstring the larger iPhone for that to make sense.

The "regular" iPhone being the current 4" model.....

Given how much clamoring there seems to be for larger displays, I don't see it as farfetched at all.

The cheaper iPhone will likely be behind in CPU/GPU tech and have a plastic build, while the larger iPhone will carry the same CPU/GPU as the regular, perhaps with a beefier GPU and larger battery/display.

Then one can decide if the larger device is worth extra money for the bigger screen and little faster processor/GPU, or if they'd rather stick with the 4" device.

Apple isn't afraid to cannibalize its own lineup - and I'd argue, while there might be some cannibalization (especially to start because people like "different" and "new" more than anything, they'll also increase their user base to include those who switched away for the larger screens and those who can't afford the current iPhone.

A larger iPhone priced at the Note 2 pricing (starting at $299 on contract) will also help offset some of the profit hits they'll take on the cheaper iPhone.

 

[Night Spring]

I hate when people assume that because certain people make these types of statements, that somehow all of us making statements about Android are perpetuating a double standard.

The answer to this question for me would be, I don't know. I haven't been a long-time frequenter of these forums and frankly, my attitude about iOS being the best hasn't changed.

Just because you have one person saying its all about preferences when confronted with "Android is the best", doesn't mean they were also championing iOS as the objective winner before. That's an irresponsible generalization.

And I still don't understand why you can't have a legitimate conversation about what needs to change in iOS free from any "one is better" declarations.

Are you saying that if iOS was the only operating system that existed, we'd be incapable of discussing what we wanted changed? What needed to improve?

I think these types of conversations CAN and SHOULD be had in a vacuum of sorts so we can avoid all these defensive nonsense and posturing about which OS is better.

I totally agree. I never participated in the "iOS is better than Android" discussion that couch keeps referencing. Maybe they were before my days, maybe they were taking place in some other forum. Frankly, I've never used an Android device long enough to have an informed opinion about them.

I think, as somebody suggested in another thread -- I think it was the one about iOS 7 -- if couch is truly interested in discussing how to improve iOS, there are plenty of threads going on in the iOS 7 subforum about that. But couch wants to compare iOS to Android, and his suggestions for improving iOS mostly consists of how iOS needs to become more like Android, or to incorporate more features that Android has. Then, when other people like myself tell him that *we* are not interested in those features, he says we are not being objective. Well, from my point of view, both sides are equally subjective.

One example that has been brought up is that iOS doesn't let you chose default programs. Well, the other day, my Mom called me and told me she couldn't open a file on her iPad. I asked her which app she was using to try to view the file. She said, "It's on my iPad."

Me: Yes, but is it in email, dropbox, safari...?
Mom: What is safari? The file is on my iPad.
Me: ....Um, what icon did you tap to get to the file?
etc, etc.

Do you think users like my Mom will care about using an alternate browser as a default? Yes, I know you will say that giving power users that option will not take anything away from my Mom, that the option will be there but she need not use it. But there will be yet another item in the settings menu, which keeps getting more and more involved and more complex with each generation of iOS. Having the ability to change the default browser in there could mean that my cousin could change my Mom's default browser without telling me, and then next time Mom calls me, we could spend a long time talking at cross purposes before I finally figured out what had happened. So I think having more options does affect people who don't use them. It's just that the costs isn't so obvious.

Oh, and as for larger iPhone -- I just spent five minutes with my boss' Galaxy S3, configuring the settings to connect it to our wifi network at work. I'm sure the phone fits perfectly to his hand, but my hands are a lot smaller than his, and I hated how big it was. So if Apple ever makes an iPhone that big, I hope it also makes one that is the current iPhone 5 size with the same internal specs. I'd hate to have to pick between a phone that fits my hand but had less than top-of-the-line specs, and a top-of-the-line phone that was too big for my hands.

 

[jrswizzle]

I totally agree. I never participated in the "iOS is better than Android" discussion that couch keeps referencing. Maybe they were before my days, maybe they were taking place in some other forum. Frankly, I've never used an Android device long enough to have an informed opinion about them.

I think, as somebody suggested in another thread -- I think it was the one about iOS 7 -- if couch is truly interested in discussing how to improve iOS, there are plenty of threads going on in the iOS 7 subforum about that. But couch wants to compare iOS to Android, and his suggestions for improving iOS mostly consists of how iOS needs to become more like Android, or to incorporate more features that Android has. Then, when other people like myself tell him that *we* are not interested in those features, he says we are not being objective. Well, from my point of view, both sides are equally subjective.

One example that has been brought up is that iOS doesn't let you chose default programs. Well, the other day, my Mom called me and told me she couldn't open a file on her iPad. I asked her which app she was using to try to view the file. She said, "It's on my iPad."

Me: Yes, but is it in email, dropbox, safari...?
Mom: What is safari? The file is on my iPad?
Me: ....Um, what icon did you tap to get to the file?
etc, etc.

Do you think users like my Mom will care about using an alternate browser as a default? Yes, I know you will say that giving power users that option will not take anything away from my Mom, that the option will be there but she need not use it. But there will be yet another item in the settings menu, which keeps getting more and more involved and more complex with each generation of iOS. Having the ability to change the default browser in there could mean that my cousin could change my Mom's default browser without telling me, and then next time Mom calls me, we could spend a long time talking at cross purposes before I finally figured out what had happened. So I think having more options does affect people who don't use them. It's just that the costs isn't so obvious.

Completely agree. As someone who prefers iOS, but likes Android as well I think its perfectly easy and good to say something like:

"The iOS settings app could use simplification and an overhaul."

In that sentence I (a) made a comment about something that needs improvement in iOS and (b) NEVER referenced Android at all, including saying one platform is superior to the other.

Its comments like the above that should happen - if we TRULY want to discuss features we want in iOS7 and ways to improve it.

There's absolutely no need to bring Android into the discussion AT ALL, and certainly no reason to definitively say its better than iOS.

 

[Michael Goff]

I was talking with a friend of mine, and I told him there are several phones that are better than the iPhone. Once I started naming some, I realized the iPhone isn't even in the top 10. In no particular order, here are 10 phones I rank ahead of the iPhone.

• Galaxy S4
• Galaxy Note 2
• HTC One
• Nexus 4
• Optimus G Pro
• Optimus G
• Galaxy S3
• Razr Maxx HD
• Galaxy Note
• HTC One X+

Is your list of criteria for "better phone" "runs Android"? Because, really, a few of those make my head hurt in terms of "better than the iPhone 5" territory.

 

[tjl3]

The "regular" iPhone being the current 4" model.....

Given how much clamoring there seems to be for larger displays, I don't see it as farfetched at all.

The cheaper iPhone will likely be behind in CPU/GPU tech and have a plastic build, while the larger iPhone will carry the same CPU/GPU as the regular, perhaps with a beefier GPU and larger battery/display.

Then one can decide if the larger device is worth extra money for the bigger screen and little faster processor/GPU, or if they'd rather stick with the 4" device.

Apple isn't afraid to cannibalize its own lineup - and I'd argue, while there might be some cannibalization (especially to start because people like "different" and "new" more than anything, they'll also increase their user base to include those who switched away for the larger screens and those who can't afford the current iPhone.

A larger iPhone priced at the Note 2 pricing (starting at $299 on contract) will also help offset some of the profit hits they'll take on the cheaper iPhone.

That's a good point about the pricing model. I guess a separate price point could still make a 'regular iPhone' an attractive option.

When we talk about canabalizing their products, we generally refer to the iPad retina and mini. The mini makes a splash for its price and extra portability. The price is really something to take note of b/c it overcomes the barrier to enter the iPad market. A low cost iPhone would already eliminate this problem. And I think it is an educated guess that Apple would not venture to phablet sizes (> 5") on their first attempt at a larger iPhone. Therefore, portability would remain relatively unchanged, assuming 4.5"-5" is the new standard. Sure there will be some that clamor about needing a smaller phone, just as there are those that need a larger screen.

But there's also this to consider, a larger iPhone would be more capable and powerful. That alone would make it hard to market a 'regular iPhone' against a 'larger iPhone.' Personally, as a consumer, screen size has never been the end all be all of my decisions (the Note 2 definitely doesn't fit my personal needs b/c the phone is just too big). But if the choice is between a more powerful iPhone and a less powerful iPhone, there is no questions I'd choose the first (assuming it were still in the 'regular size' range).

 

[iAi]

Top 10 butt-ugly, for sure. Reanimation, nightspring and jrwizzle's posts are all that matters in this thread. Less is more, it's all about tastes, personal preferences and lifestyle! Stop all these cringe-worthy phandroid Regurgitating ********s already.

 

[jrswizzle]

That's a good point about the pricing model. I guess a separate price point could still make a 'regular iPhone' an attractive option.

When we talk about canabalizing their products, we generally refer to the iPad retina and mini. The mini makes a splash for its price and extra portability. The price is really something to take note of b/c it overcomes the barrier to enter the iPad market. A low cost iPhone would already eliminate this problem. And I think it is an educated guess that Apple would not venture to phablet sizes (> 5") on their first attempt at a larger iPhone. Therefore, portability would remain relatively unchanged, assuming 4.5"-5" is the new standard. Sure there will be some that clamor about needing a smaller phone, just as there are those that need a larger screen.

But there's also this to consider, a larger iPhone would be more capable and powerful. That alone would make it hard to market a 'regular iPhone' against a 'larger iPhone.' Personally, as a consumer, screen size has never been the end all be all of my decisions (the Note 2 definitely doesn't fit my personal needs b/c the phone is just too big). But if the choice is between a more powerful iPhone and a less powerful iPhone, there is no questions I'd choose the first (assuming it were still in the 'regular size' range).

I don't think the power difference would be all that striking. Mostly the difference would be on the GPU side.

And there are still plenty out there who would rather have a 4" iPhone even with a larger option available.

The price would be a factor too - weigh paying $199 for a 16GB or $299 for a 16GB larger when you could get the smaller 32GB for that price.

Its all a value proposition. The expansion of the family would just add more choices for those who can't find an iPhone that meets their top criteria (price, display size).

 

[onthecouchagain]

snipped

Snipped

@NightSpring & Jrswizzle,

I did try to have those types of conversations where I only pointed out iOS' shortcomings without comparing or discussing objectivity (dig through my post history but you'd have to go pretty far back). Back when there existed only an iPhone forum, back before the "Alternative Forums" ever existed.

You know what the response was?

"Couch, just go get an Android."
"Couch, you're wrong. The iPhone sells millions. It doesn't need to change."
"Couch, some of us have no need or preference for those changes. We personally love iOS just the way it is."
"Couch, what are you talking about? iOS just works."

It was always a combination of these types of responses. You've heard them before.

You can imagine how the conversation spiraled downward from there. So instead of talking about the shortcomings of iOS, it became an argument for why we should talk about the shortcomings of iOS -- the greatest of all red herrings. Do you see why one person's preference can negate anthers?

Anyway, I won't give you all a big history lesson here, but eventually, these types of conversations grew worse to the point where people started requesting a sub-forum for "these types" of users to go discuss the things they want to discuss elsewhere away from the pristine and critical-free iPhone forums. Now, you see the results. Almost anything critical of the iPhone or iOS is immediately transferred over from the iPhone forums to the Alternatives.

Maybe times have changed but it was a fruitless endeavor to try to have those types of direct conversations regarding iOS' shortcomings. It sometimes still is no matter how anyone tries to spin it.

 

[jrswizzle]

@NightSpring & Jrswizzle,

I did try to have those types of conversations where I only pointed out iOS' shortcomings without comparing or discussing objectivity (dig through my post history but you'd have to go pretty far back). Back when there existed only an iPhone forum, back before the "Alternative Forums" ever existed.

You know what the response was?

"Couch, just go get an Android."
"Couch, you're wrong. The iPhone sells millions. It doesn't need to change."
"Couch, some of us have no need or preference for those changes. We personally love iOS just the way it is."
"Couch, what are you talking about? iOS just works."

It was always a combination of these types of responses. You've heard them before.

You can imagine how the conversation spiraled downward from there. So instead of talking about the shortcomings of iOS, it became an argument for why we should talk about the shortcomings of iOS -- the greatest of all red herrings. Do you see why one person's preference can negate anthers?

Anyway, I won't give you all a big history lesson here, but eventually, these types of conversations grew worse to the point where people started requesting a sub-forum for "these types" of users to go discuss the things they want to discuss elsewhere away from the pristine and critical-free iPhone forums. Now, you see the results. Almost anything critical of the iPhone or iOS is immediately transferred over from the iPhone forums to the Alternatives.

Maybe times have changed but it was a fruitless endeavor to try to have those types of direct conversations regarding iOS' shortcomings. It sometimes still is no matter how you spin it.

I don't think either of us are denying that his happened or happens. It's just frustrating to those of us who genuinely like both platforms but prefer iOS to hear that we've said things like that when the truth is I feel the exact opposite.

Though I will say, it would seem given your preferences you would be and are more comfortable with an Android

I'm all for discussing things that can change in iOS. Hell, there's a ridiculously long list in the iOS 7 section of the iOS thread where people have listed at length various ideas and wants for iOS 7....some I never would have thought of.

So while I understand and agree that there are plenty of responses like you mentioned, I also know there are plenty of places on here (namely that iOS7 section) where tons of people are throwing out idea after idea and desire after desire about what they want to see in iOS7.

 

[Night Spring]

Anyway, I won't give you all a big history lesson here, but eventually, these types of conversations grew worse to the point where people started requesting a sub-forum for "these types" of users to go discuss the things they want to discuss elsewhere away from the pristine and critical-free iPhone forums. Now, you see the results. Almost anything critical of the iPhone or iOS is immediately transferred over from the iPhone forums to the Alternatives.

My perception of how the alternative devices forum got started is a bit different than yours. In my view, people got tired of reading about other *devices* -- not necessarily that these threads were critical of iOS. If it seems like any thread that is critical of iOS keeps getting transferred here, than it's because they all frame their criticism in terms of how iOS is not like Android. If you can start a thread about the weaknesses and limitations of iOS without mentioning Android, you bet the thread will stay in whichever forum you start it in.

 

[mb523]

Am I the only one who doesn't put the iPhone in the same category? Since iPhone's 2007 release, I always thought of it as a "dumb phone"(for lack of a better phrase) with smartphone capabilities and awesome hardware. This is mainly cause I was already use to the openness of WM phones and treated them like mini PCs.

4 main reasons I went from WM to the iPhone.

Bigger and capacitive screen
Better Browser (unmatched until probably 2010)
Reliability
Biggest internal memory

but I lost plenty of functionality, which I didn't mind at the time cause there was nothing like the iPhone. I remember not even having copy n paste. Still switched back n forth until exchange was supported.

Nowadays, Android phones provide me with the same reasons I went to an iPhone, and also has the functionality/openness of my old school WM phones.

So being that said .... I'll always consider the iPhone a great phone and OS, but I never considered it a true smartphone in the traditional sense.


Bracing myself for the quick jabs .....

Ok, I have been reading this forum for ages and I just signed up a few minutes ago, just to reply to this. This is exactly what I think!!!!! I think (at least partly), anyone that used pocket pc's (windows mobile) probably feels this way. I used to own a Dell Axim and all I thought was "I wish this had phone capabilities." I did buy an iphone when it first came out in 2007 and had them all until the 4S. I liked it because it was beautifully built and it definitely had new features that were not on the pocket pc's or mobile phones (touch capacitive screen, pinch to zoom, etc.) but I still carried my pocket pc with me for a long time (in addition to the iphone) because the iphone didn't have apps for a year.

When Android got more sophisticated, I bought a Note 1 and then a Note 2 and it was like having my old pocket pc back but with iphone capabilities and soooooo much more. I just love this phone.

Anyway, just wanted to say I agree with your post.

 

[matttye]

Oh how I've missed coming here!

 

[chagla]

Except it has sold more than all ten of those combined.

and that really enhances end user usability/experience. wow, i'm really excited. i'm definitely camping out this time when next iphone comes out.

cool.

 

[Shadow Puppy]

Is your list of criteria for "better phone" "runs Android"? Because, really, a few of those make my head hurt in terms of "better than the iPhone 5" territory.

iOS in itself is definitely a weakness in my eyes, but it isn't just that. It is also the hardware limitations. For example, the absence of high definition, nfc, wifi direct, or wireless charging are also demerits in my eyes. When you combine those deficiencies with the software shortcomings of iOS, it comes behind phones that do encompass what it lacks, hence my top 10. Out of curiosity, which few of these "made your head hurt"?

 

[Michael Goff]

iOS in itself is definitely a weakness in my eyes, but it isn't just that. It is also the hardware limitations. For example, the absence of high definition, nfc, wifi direct, or wireless charging are also demerits in my eyes. When you combine those deficiencies with the software shortcomings of iOS, it comes behind phones that do encompass what it lacks, hence my top 10. Out of curiosity, which few of these "made your head hurt"?

Galaxy S3
Galaxy Note
HTC One X+

These.

 

[ReanimationN]

I seriously don't know how many times I have to say that it's okay to not value the same thing another user might value. That's my whole point is that that sort of conversation is pretty useless. I never said there was anything wrong with preferences, but you're demonstrating precisely why a more objective conversation needs to be had with every example in your post.

And you've demonstrated why, time and time again, you can't have a truly objective conversation about this. We're supposed to accept what you find important as the measurements by which we determine which the superior OS is. We don't all value what you value, we don't all see things the way you see things, and that's why, whatever you choose as the measurement which makes an OS objectively better, isn't an objective measurement at all. It's simply you imposing what you find important onto the discussion.

But you're stating people are "settling for less," "prefer less," "choose less," which are just not the absolute truth. It's your way of looking at things.

100% agreed. Spot on.

There's absolutely no need to bring Android into the discussion AT ALL, and certainly no reason to definitively say its better than iOS.

Definitely agree.

----------

Oh how I've missed coming here!

I had a break from here too, not much has changed.

 

[onthecouchagain]

And you've demonstrated why, time and time again, you can't have a truly objective conversation about this. We're supposed to accept what you find important as the measurements by which we determine which the superior OS is. We don't all value what you value, we don't all see things the way you see things, and that's why, whatever you choose as the measurement which makes an OS objectively better, isn't an objective measurement at all. It's simply you imposing what you find important onto the discussion.

I don't need to impose anything. There's nothing I can do if people refuse to admit that iOS is, at this point in time, an inferior operating system compared to Android even if they prefer iOS. There are far and few things that iOS can do better than Android. And if iOS 7 continues its upgrade path that it's been on and if Android continues its upgrade path that it's been on, it'll remain that way, if not grow even more distant.

And there will still be people saying, I still prefer iOS. And that's perfectly okay. I know plenty of older people or non-techy people preferring iOS. More power to them. It's still an inferior operating system compared to Android. Every corner of it reeks of limitations. Even the basic, everyday uses of a smartphone require more steps to do on iOS. I've gone into more detail in other threads, but what's that matter, right? It's all preference.

 

[TheMTtakeover]

You're right, people love to hide behind the "it's just a preference" defense. Let's be real, not being able to select your own browser isn't something a person just plain prefers. No logical explanation can be made to explain why a person would say they prefer not having a choice of which browser they'd like to use by default. Things like that cannot be defended simply by saying "it's a preference".

I use Safari anyway. I wouldn't change it even if
Possible.