When not to use Anamorphic?

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Which it is. With AC3 there is no encoder involved.

Dynaflash, something is up then because when using the actual DVD AC3 is coming through the receiver as 5.1 (no problem). But the Handbrake AC3 passthrough (only for) Empire Strikes Back (from the boxed set) is not coming through the same way (for 2 people in this thread). The key (different) thing I notice is that Handbrake is seeing the MTR processed movie as 4.1 AC3. Something is keeping Handbrake from either seeing (or actually getting) the full 5.1 AC3 either in AAC+AC3 mode or in just AC3 (only) pass through. I tried both and both yielded the same audio result (which, as described, sounds like jumbled audio, beeping & stuttering, while the picture looks and plays just fine).

If you have a copy of ESB from the box set, try it and see for yourself.

 

[roland.g]

If you have a copy of DVD2One try making an folder or image from the existing folder and then check the audio settings to see what it says. If it lists it as AC3 then create a folder or image from which to rip in HB and see if that workaround somehow solves the problem.

 

[mchalebk]

I have been reading this forums for several months now to gain a good understanding of the AppleTv and how best to use it. Right now, I have an old PowerMac G4 and am not working with Handbrake. The few times I tried, the encode times were outrageous, so I gave it up. In the not-too-distant future, I will be buying a MacPro and expect to get into this.

The one topic that eludes me is "when to use anamorphic"/"what about non-anamorphic widescreen and 4x3 material". I am very knowledgeable about anamorphic widescreen (I have to be with my TV since I have to manually select the proper viewing mode). However, with AppleTV, that is no longer a concern (with an HD signal, my TV locks on FULL, which is the mode for anamorphic video).

From reading threads such as this, it is obvious that you should use ANAMORPHIC for anamorphic DVDs. However, there seems to be less than a consensus about whether or not you should use ANAMORPHIC for non-anamorphic or 4:3 DVDs. If I watch Con Air on DVD, i use a zoom mode on my TV. What do I need to do when I encode it to get the proper picture when using AppleTV? It sounds like using ANAMORPHIC is unnecessary, but how does the image get zoomed so that it is not pillar-boxed (bars on the sides)? And what about 4:3 DVDs?

Once again, I understand these concepts perfectly when it comes to DVDs. I just don't know how to get the desired results with HB and AppleTV.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

If you have a copy of DVD2One try making an folder or image from the existing folder and then check the audio settings to see what it says. If it lists it as AC3 then create a folder or image from which to rip in HB and see if that workaround somehow solves the problem.

I don't have DVD2One but I would like to know if using it solves this problem. Anyone?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I have been reading this forums for several months now to gain a good understanding of the AppleTv and how best to use it. Right now, I have an old PowerMac G4 and am not working with Handbrake. The few times I tried, the encode times were outrageous, so I gave it up. In the not-too-distant future, I will be buying a MacPro and expect to get into this.

The one topic that eludes me is "when to use anamorphic"/"what about non-anamorphic widescreen and 4x3 material". I am very knowledgeable about anamorphic widescreen (I have to be with my TV since I have to manually select the proper viewing mode). However, with AppleTV, that is no longer a concern (with an HD signal, my TV locks on FULL, which is the mode for anamorphic video).

From reading threads such as this, it is obvious that you should use ANAMORPHIC for anamorphic DVDs. However, there seems to be less than a consensus about whether or not you should use ANAMORPHIC for non-anamorphic or 4:3 DVDs. If I watch Con Air on DVD, i use a zoom mode on my TV. What do I need to do when I encode it to get the proper picture when using AppleTV? It sounds like using ANAMORPHIC is unnecessary, but how does the image get zoomed so that it is not pillar-boxed (bars on the sides)? And what about 4:3 DVDs?

Once again, I understand these concepts perfectly when it comes to DVDs. I just don't know how to get the desired results with HB and AppleTV.

I don't know if this will completely answer your question, but HB can crop the video. I believe it looks at any DVD video and searches for the edges. That marks the crop points. Basically, it aims to capture all of the actual video without any black bars (top or side) when it creates the Quicktime file.

This results in Quicktime files that play back in a lot of different screen sizes. Anamorphic DVDs end up as fairly large Quicktime screens, while non anamorphic DVDs end up relatively small. However, I can't think of any HB encodes that have the black bars in the Quicktime file itself (when played back on the computer).

I perceive that when it is played back through TV the file is scaled up until the top & bottom or left & right reach the edge of the screen. Then, TV adds black bars in the spaces that remain. Typically, for widescreen encodes, this means the video will be vertically centered on the TV screen and black bars are added (as needed) above & below if the aspect ratio exceeds the 16:9 widescreen dimensions. In other words, the playback system in (I presume) TV is filling in the vertical spaces above and below the video with whatever thickness of black bars are needed. This applies with every DVD I've done whether the DVD is anamorphic or not.

Some 4:3 video (such as home movies shot with older camcorders) end up with black bars on the sides because the video fills the screen top to bottom but lacks the video content to fill out the rest of the widescreen space (left & right). Again, they don't look this way (no black bars at all) as Quicktime files played back on the computer (they play in approx. square playback windows).

Lastly, when playing back DVD films via HB encodes, my HDTV locks to "full" screen mode only (all zoom options are unavailable), which is what it does when playing back the same films via DVD too.

I do convert everything with anamorphic turned on, so I don't know what effect it would have on zoom modes if it was not used.

 

[roland.g]

I don't have DVD2One but I would like to know if using it solves this problem. Anyone?

I have HB'd my ESB but have not played it so I can do that when I get home later this evening and see if it gives me the same sound issue that others have reported. I have converted about 40 movies so far using the new AC3+AAC audio tracks and didn't really have much encoded before (actually I have re-encoded anything I had to replace it) but other than testing the first couple movies, I have not played much through the Apple TV yet. My receiver does switch from Dolby Pro Logic II to Dobly Digital when I do play the new encodes.

 

[dynaflash]

There is a thread about a particular issue with Empire Strikes Back at the our handbrake forums with the AC3 sync with the video, http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5025&p=29525&hilit=Empire+Strikes+Back#p29525.
But I do not think it has been addressed yet.

 

[roland.g]

Confirmed my rip of ESB also had the funky audio issue. I will rerip it with just the AAC track and not worry about it. It's just one movie.

 

[cohibadad]

Thanks for the ESB link dynaflash. I was going to look it up in your forum eventually but like Roland said, it's only 1 film. I figured it was going to get fixed eventually. I did look up The Hire and Pixar Animated Shorts and was surprised to find no answers. Most of my HB problems seem to get fixed eventually so I put any problem encodes on the bottom of the stack. There was a funny compile of HB a few days ago. It would auto crop in the funkiest way leaving me with this little like 200x300 hole in the film. I would correct it and then it would do it again. I update the svn and read the changelist. haha. what a goof up. I would check some of your encodes roland. I don't know if it was just my experimenting with VFR or CRF but I have some films that the audio got out of sync later in the film. Independence Day comes to mind. I also find some surprises where the DVD needs deinterlacing that I didn't expect and it shows up big time in motion scenes.

 

[roland.g]

MTR'd 8 more last night and ripped 6 of them overnight, pushing about 50 movies now.

 

[gnasher729]

I've ripped TV eps with both anamorphic on and off and I don't see an appreciable difference in the picture. Both tests filled the same amount of the screen if the picture was originally 4:3. I've also done chapters of movies that are not anamorphic in both and also can't see a difference in the picture. So I just rip everything with anamorphic on.

On 4:3 format, anamorphic mode shouldn't make a difference. Let me explain: All DVDs record the picture in 3:2 format (US) or 4:3 format (Europe). So what happens if you have a widescreen (16:9) DVD? When the DVD is made, the video material is squashed together to 3:2 or 4:3, it is recorded in that format, and when you play the DVD it is decoded back to 3:2 or 4:3 and then the DVD player makes it wider to 16:9. Same thing happens with 2.35 : 1, only more extreme.

Without anamorphic encoding, Handbrake compresses the 16:9 or 2.35:1 image. But that is not really clever. A lot of the information in the 16:9 image is not really there on the original DVD, but has been added by the DVD player. Trying to compress that data and storing it in the h.264 movie is pointless. With anamorphic encoding, Handbrake takes the picture as it is on the DVD and compresses it. So it doesn't waste any bits to try to compress things that were not present on the DVD. It then adds a note to the movie saying that the image must be played back wider than it is stored.

If your DVD is already in 3:2 or 4:3 format, then anamorphic encoding doesn't make any difference, because the image on the DVD and the image that is displayed are the same.

Anamorphic encoding has another advantage: Without anamorphic encoding, the DVD player has adjusted the image before it was encoded. That adds some rounding errors, which is unavoidable. Later on, when the h.264 movie is played back, it may again be adjusted to the actual size of your screen, another adjustment. So you get two sets of rounding errors. With anamorphic encoding, it goes directly from DVD format to the screen format, with only one scaling and only one error. This improves quality very slightly.