When the new Mac Pro comes out, will older Mac Pro prices shoot up?

[flat five]

I
We know that you can replace the RAM

how?

Have you seen the pictures of the inside?

yeah.. and i see how easy it is to get inside.
i mean, i can change the ram on my mbp but i still need to unscrew a dozen or so screws to get in there.. why isn't the macpro shell screwed on as well then? looks like theres an easy access latch just like the current model.

idk.. it doesn't really matter anyway.. these are things which will have very real answers soon enough.

 

[Siderz]

i see how easy it is to get inside.
i mean, i can change the ram on my mbp but i still need to unscrew a dozen or so screws to get in there.. why isn't the macpro shell screwed on as well then? looks like theres an easy access latch just like the current model.

idk.. it doesn't really matter anyway.. these are things which will have very real answers soon enough.

If you click the link I posted and start scrolling down, you will eventually get to the point where they show it opening and the RAM being replaced. There's a latch/switch to open it. Something to note is that you can only open it once you've unplugged everything, which seems to imply that they don't want you opening it that often.

The SSD gets removed as well during the animation, but I think people have concluded that it won't be replaceable. The only thing we definitely know will be replaceable is the RAM.

 

[flat five]

If you click the link I posted and start scrolling down, you will eventually get to the point where they show it opening and the RAM being replaced. There's a latch/switch to open it. Something to note is that you can only open it once you've unplugged everything, which seems to imply that they don't want you opening it that often.

The SSD gets removed as well during the animation, but I think people have concluded that it won't be replaceable. The only thing we definitely know will be replaceable is the RAM.

yeah. I don't know and I'm not going to pretend like I know based on my own desires or whatever.
likewise, I highly doubt someone at this forum will convince me to believe the parts aren't user serviceable/replaceable.

 

[flat five]

you can somewhat see this on the apple site but photos from wwdc make it even more apparent.. there are torx screws holding the gpus in place.. i can't really figure out why those screws would be in those locations if the thing was all welded together.. (but hey- i'm definitely no computer engineer.. maybe they have some purpose that i'm entirely unaware of)

there also appear to be 8 of the same screws holding the cpu in place:

 

[flat five]

also, the mac pro website when clicking on 'processor' will animate the removal of the IO panel in order to get to the cpu.. look around at some other pics and you'll see the screws which go in these (now) empty holes have the same (maybe smaller) torx heads..

 

[BJonson]

The bottom line is this:

When the new mac pro debuts it will be too expensive and for the money the old mac pro will be a winner. Only people with tons of money will buy them and everyone else will buy up the last remaining old mac pros still new and when they are gone people will panic and prices on ebay will shoot up. It will be like that for a year. The new mac pro did not score that much higher than the 12 core current mac pro but the problem is that processor that got that score is $3000 and nobody is going to get that. Count on a 6 core mac pro being the affordable model. It will score around 14,000 on geekbench and people will rush out and pick up the old model for way cheaper. Add to it the fact that this is a Rev A product and that it will come chock full of problems and the old mac pro will triumph for at least until Rev B the following year. Get ready for these headlines:

- The New Mac Pro overheating
- The New Mac Pro has video bug because of crossfire
- The New Mac Pro catches fire
- The New Mac Pro fan vents clog causing the computer to shut down
- The New Mac Pro Downclocking during CPU maxed out

 

[flat five]

The bottom line is this:

can you elaborate on what you mean by 'the bottom line' ?

because my interpretation of it and the way you're using it are apparently two entirely different things

 

[subsonix]

Get ready for these headlines:

- The New Mac Pro overheating
- The New Mac Pro has video bug because of crossfire
- The New Mac Pro catches fire
- The New Mac Pro fan vents clog causing the computer to shut down
- The New Mac Pro Downclocking during CPU maxed out

Ah, the drama.

This is all obviously products of your imagination, why should we listen, or take note?

 

[BJonson]

Ah, the drama.

This is all obviously products of your imagination, why should we listen, or take note?

I'll be back to gloat as they happen one by one. It's to radical a design and too tight a space not to have problems.

 

[subsonix]

I'll be back to gloat as they happen one by one. It's to radical a design and too tight a space not to have problems.

You don't think the engineers have considered this, and tested it? In any case, I'm not saying any of these wont happen ever, I like you, have no way of knowing that.

But I object to it mostly because there are real concerns with the new model that people are facing, mostly related to integration with existing gear. So there is no need to dream up future hypothetical problems which may never occur.

 

[BJonson]

You don't think the engineers have considered this, and tested it? In any case, I'm not saying any of these wont happen ever, I like you, have no way of knowing that.

I don't know about you but I have spent a lot of time building computers and to put a roaring 12 core cpu and 2 high performance graphics cards on the same heatsink with only one fan has never been done ever and to make sure it is quiet, well if they pull it off I will be the first one to congratulate them but thermally its unlikely. We will have to see but nobody has done it yet so unless they are putting in super low power parts and underclocking the hell out of them (like apple does) then that fan is going to be running fast and loud. I bet if you run flash on the new mac pro it sound like a jet engine. LOL.

 

[subsonix]

I don't know about you but I have spent a lot of time building computers

Probably not as much time as Apple though to be honest right?

 

[linuxcooldude]

I don't know about you but I have spent a lot of time building computers and to put a roaring 12 core cpu and 2 high performance graphics cards on the same heatsink with only one fan has never been done ever and to make sure it is quiet, well if they pull it off I will be the first one to congratulate them but thermally its unlikely. We will have to see but nobody has done it yet so unless they are putting in super low power parts and underclocking the hell out of them (like apple does) then that fan is going to be running fast and loud. I bet if you run flash on the new mac pro it sound like a jet engine. LOL.

I think cooling wise the design is more efficient. Its removing a lot of components you would normally find inside a computer for external components meaning less heat generated.

A single tubular design with a straight airflow is probably more efficient than a box design with more disruptions to cooling also needing more fans to compensate.

You can design the single fan to use less noise but still be powerful. Seems to be of an impeller type.

I bet if you run flash on the new mac pro it sound like a jet engine.

Its ironic I use to be a jet mechanic so I know something about design.

 

[BJonson]

Probably not as much time as Apple though to be honest right?

Not as much as apple but more than you.

 

[subsonix]

Not as much as apple but more than you.

How much time have I spent building computers?

 

[Cubemmal]

I don't know about you but I have spent a lot of time building computers and to put a roaring 12 core cpu and 2 high performance graphics cards on the same heatsink with only one fan has never been done ever and to make sure it is quiet, well if they pull it off I will be the first one to congratulate them but thermally its unlikely. We will have to see but nobody has done it yet so unless they are putting in super low power parts and underclocking the hell out of them (like apple does) then that fan is going to be running fast and loud. I bet if you run flash on the new mac pro it sound like a jet engine. LOL.

Unlikely. This is Apple we're talking about - they're noise freaks (one reason I love them) and know that with such a radical design it better also be silent. If this machine is at all loud it will get a big Raspberry. I predict that at most it will reach the low 20's dB, i.e. barely above ambient.

Looking at the design it should be easy. Consider space heaters, ever seen inside one? Same design principles here, huge fan (6" I believe) and clean airflow path (9" with minimal obstruction), with a think aluminum outer case for extra dissipation. The only thing I'm surprised about is the curve at the top of the case.

Finally they're promising that it'll be quiet

An incredible amount of innovation went into designing a fan system capable of cooling such a high-performance device. Instead of adding extra fans, we engineered a single, larger fan that pulls air upward through a bottom vent. As air passes vertically through the center of the device, it absorbs heat and carries it out the top. It’s simple and elegant — and also astonishingly quiet. To achieve that, we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades. By minimizing air resistance throughout the system, we were able to design a fan with backward-curved impeller blades that runs at fewer revolutions per minute, draws air more efficiently as it spins, and creates considerably less noise.

 

[Cubemmal]

If you take a QuickTime screen movie of the animations and slow it down you can see more of the design.

• The full face of the heat sink has a metal pad bonded to it. Either a thermal pad or heat pipe, probably the latter, in fact the heat animation indicates that with the arrows. See the Wiki article for a graphic of a heat pipe pad.
• Guide pins machined into the heatsink for aligning the GPU and CPU boards.
• The power supply has it's own cooling via air pulled from the bottom through it to the top by the fan.
• Same goes for the RAM, active air cooling with no heat spreaders
• The CPU has the largest heatsink surface area by far, this if for a TDP of what, 80W or thereabouts? What are the GPU's, about half that?

Damn brilliant and elegant design. I want one so bad.

 

[fastlanephil]

The old Mac Pros will slowly erode in value and then enter the black hole of computer technology. There it will depend on aluminum scrap metal prices.

 

[Siderz]

Damn brilliant and elegant design. I want one so bad.

Wait until you see how small it is, it's a lot smaller than the pictures make it out to be, I think it would look excellent on a desk.

 

[deconstruct60]

If you take a QuickTime screen movie of the animations and slow it down you can see more of the design.

• The CPU has the largest heatsink surface area by far, this if for a TDP of what, 80W or thereabouts? What are the GPU's, about half that?

.....

Pretty far off.

The 2.7GHz 12 core is in the same range as the Xeon E5 1600 series 130W:
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013062601_Specifications_of_Intel_Xeon_E5-2600_v2_CPUs.html


The W9000 has a 240+ TDP. Apple's isn't the same but even half would be over 120W. Max configuration looking at around 360-400W.

The point you fail to point out from the pictures is this heat sink is bigger than any one of those cards. It is a major contributor to the consumer of internal volume of the device. It appears to be the largest single component inside the device. Larger than the power supply, any of the cards .... everything...

So if it is 5 times as big as 5 smaller heat sinks .... did they loose anything in aggregate thermal dissipation capability? Probably not anything can say at this point as to a loss of capability.

Similar, but not quite so high a multiple with the fans. If replace two 60mm fans with one 120mm are you loosing anything? No. In fact since the area is r^2 the 120mm is much better.

There are two things the Mac Pro design does. One maximizes the diameter of the fan by making it about the same diameter of the cylinder. Second, devotes a huge chunk of the volume to collecting the heat.

 

[deconstruct60]

I don't know about you but I have spent a lot of time building computers

Building computers out of commodity parts is distinctly different than designing them and the parts. Going to Frys/Microcenter/newegg and breaking out your trusty screwdriver doesn't make you a computer architect/designer.

and to put a roaring 12 core cpu and 2 high performance graphics cards on the same heatsink with only one fan has never been done ever and to make sure it is quiet, well if they pull it off I will be the first one to congratulate them but thermally its unlikely.

One fan doesn't really matter. The root issue is moving enough cubic feet of air over the elements that need cooling. One larger fan can easily move as much air as multiple smaller ones. It may be questionable that the one fan is large enough, but being just one... that is a non factor in terms of cooling.

As far as nobody doing it before. Frankly most of the PC industry is a "monkey see, monkey do" when it comes to design. There is little to nothing that is new. Incrementally stealing from larger big iron boxes and making it smaller isn't "new"; just smaller.

Most PC thermal designs for generic parts are conflicting almost as much as they effective. Some fans just throw the heat into another part of the box where it is to be swept out by another set moving air in a different direction. Brute force solutions. That's one reason there are so many fans and heat sinks... trying to get around the conflicts.

I bet if you run flash on the new mac pro it sound like a jet engine. LOL.

Flash is going to make a 12 core , dual W9000 equivalent system breathe hard? ROTFLMAO. Not.

I do doubt that if load the Mac Pro down with a 5TFLOP job spread over the CPU and two GPUs for several hours that the new Mac Pro will be whisper quiet. But running normal mainstream everyday stuff? Probably will. More than a few mainstream apps won't be able to activate all three components at the same time for extended periods of time. If one of the GPUs is asleep then it is much easier to, put

I also doubt most Mac Pro owners even buy the the 12 core dual W9000 equivalent box. For lower GPU configs the thermal demands drop. The W7000 is below 150W, Apple has probably tweaked it a bit lower. So Two and a 130W CPU is only about 430W. A super sized heat sink and a super sized fan can possibly work for normal single human driven workloads.

The new Mac Pro as a 24/7 high utlization , computational batch job node? It probably would be loud but then it probably would not be required to sit on anyone's desk either. Stuffed into a room where it can make noise and be fed chilled air and it probably will work.

 

[Menthol]

So does everyone think the 5,1 gets removed from the Apple Store the day the 6,1 is released?

 

[deconstruct60]

So does everyone think the 5,1 gets removed from the Apple Store the day the 6,1 is released?

If talking online: In the "new" Mac section? Yes. From the refurb section? no.

That is just standard practice for all Apple products.

If talking physical stores: may not have been there now. But doubtfully uniform across all stores. Depends upon what else is being introduced the same day. Do they ship all the inventory back right away? Probably not, but also not fire sales on their bloated unsold inventory either. (there is not going to be any bloated unsold inventory). But it will be swapped when store gets new demo units.


However, the upside with the Mac pro being dramatically smaller I suspect it actually may get some display space in some physical stores where it has been bumped out. [ holiday season rush where need an extra table for higher volume stock. ] If Apple comes out with an even smaller TB display along side the new Mac Pro all the more likely will get some "face time" in smaller stores with limited display space.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I am a Mac Pro owner and will be buying a new one as well (as it makes business sense), and I don't desire replaceable parts. If I wanted a PC I'd buy a Gateway2000.

 

[Cubemmal]

Wait until you see how small it is, it's a lot smaller than the pictures make it out to be, I think it would look excellent on a desk.

Yeah I made a rough mockup using a paper towel roll - amazing.