Re IOS apps on MacBook: would you not use a cursor driven with trackpad or mouse?
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iPad Pro Where does the 12.9 iPad Pro stand now with the new silicon Mac’s?
- Thread starter The Game 161
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I buy iPads because I prefer the tablet form factor (optional keyboard). I'd actually rather have MacOS functionality be ported over to iPadOS rather than get a MacBook.
It's not like the iPad Pro is cheap.
MacBook Air 13-inch
M1"X", 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD $999
M1"Z", 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD $1249
M1"Z", 8GB RAM, 1TB SSD $1449
iPad Pro 12.9-inch (4th generation)
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 256GB SSD $1099 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1448
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 512GB SSD $1299 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1648
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 1TB SSD $1499 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1848
It's not like the iPad Pro is cheap.
MacBook Air 13-inch
M1"X", 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD $999
M1"Z", 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD $1249
M1"Z", 8GB RAM, 1TB SSD $1449
iPad Pro 12.9-inch (4th generation)
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 256GB SSD $1099 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1448
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 512GB SSD $1299 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1648
A12Z, 6GB RAM, 1TB SSD $1499 + Magic Keyboard $349 = $1848
Personally I think there will always be a need for a large iPP, and I'm likely not alone.
I'll never be able to integrate a Mac into my daily workflow due to my line of work and corporate standards in my company, but I'll certainly welcome some improvements on the iPad OS side that take advantage of the development that the M1 line of chips will spark.
Bottom line - for some of us, iPads supplement workflows that have nothing to do with MacOS, and Apple Silicon will never change that so the need for iPads for this part of the market will always be there. If in their infinite wisdom Apple sees fit to dump iPadOS and have iPads run a touch version of MacOS then so be it, I'll try to work with it but still as a supplement to my primary computing devices which are Windows based.
I'll never be able to integrate a Mac into my daily workflow due to my line of work and corporate standards in my company, but I'll certainly welcome some improvements on the iPad OS side that take advantage of the development that the M1 line of chips will spark.
Bottom line - for some of us, iPads supplement workflows that have nothing to do with MacOS, and Apple Silicon will never change that so the need for iPads for this part of the market will always be there. If in their infinite wisdom Apple sees fit to dump iPadOS and have iPads run a touch version of MacOS then so be it, I'll try to work with it but still as a supplement to my primary computing devices which are Windows based.
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To point, not sure about the interaction to scroll and move around Zoom and other gestures. If I find a mobile app that I can load, I'll play around a bit.
I know I’m probably in the minority, but I’d really like to see a hybrid product at this point. I mean, we have iPads with full mouse and trackpad support (many Naysayers here on MR said wouldn’t/couldn’t happen) and now MacBooks that can run iOS apps. Who would have thought?
Truly exciting times we are in.
Truly exciting times we are in.
I understand what you're trying get at... and it is a reasonable scenario to discuss.
I don't think that M1 MBA diminishes the attraction of the 12.9 Pro for those who are already inclined to want it.
There's more to the appeal of an iPad than the processor.... or even the benefits that result from the particular processor in question.
The ability to run iOS apps on a non-touchscreen device is going to be an inferior experience than running macOS apps. It'll even be inferior to running Android apps on a non-touchscreen chromebook (because Android has nearly always had full native mouse support).
The 12.9 Pro is a tablet that can behave as a laptop in-a-pinch... but the M1 MBA is laptop that can't behave as a tablet at all.
Well if you look at the Angry iPad User timeline then its pretty clear that the naysayers tend to be the first to jump right on the annual “wedontneed” feature (once Apple does it).
We dont need:
- bigger screens
- a camera
- stylus
- external keyboards
- mouse support
- trackpads
- full web browsers
- a file system
- USB-C
- LiDAR (Okay, i went too far)
Some iPad Purists would resist, but for others it really wouldn’t take much to get them to embrace full monitor support, user switching or actual Mac apps on a “tablet”. Because in the end then when you have a machine as powerful as this then it really does make sense to introduce more “Pro” features into the iPad Pro.
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Now we know that the only reason Apple wants to keep the iPad line separate from the Mac line is because doing that maximizes profitability. Why make iPads as capable as Macs if people will buy both of them? We've always known the hardware screams on iPads.
If I understand correctly the idea is that some people want an ipad as laptop replacement, but the M1 macbook would be a better option at that.
Then the question is why these people (probably a minority as I guess most use an ipad a companion device) want to replace their laptop with a 12.9 ipad pro?
I can think of many things:
- touchscreen and touch interface
- pencil
- versatility (cab be a slab, including in portrait mode with its aspect ratio, and can be used with a keyboard)
- general fun factor (linked to all of the above)
- no fan
- battery life
Now the M1 is equal or better only at the last 2...
I guess you assume that these people are making a trade-off, the productivity of a laptop vs the versatility and fun of an ipad.
My guess is that this could apply to a tiny minority of people.
Most of those that repalce a laptop either :
- don't necessaritly need the productivity of laptop (eg. because they don't work with it )
- or like the versaility and fun factor of the ipad (pro) so much that they are ready to give up the pro software and features (and battery life would not be enough of a reason...)
Now if Mac supported touch and pen or even came in a convertible form factor, this would be different, altough it would not make the ipad redundant, but would definitely move a good deal of sales out of iPad (especially pro) and ino hybrid macs.
But as someone already pointed out, this is not in Apple's interest, so it's very unlikely.
Apple wants people to have both Mac AND iPads, not 1 hybrid
Then the question is why these people (probably a minority as I guess most use an ipad a companion device) want to replace their laptop with a 12.9 ipad pro?
I can think of many things:
- touchscreen and touch interface
- pencil
- versatility (cab be a slab, including in portrait mode with its aspect ratio, and can be used with a keyboard)
- general fun factor (linked to all of the above)
- no fan
- battery life
Now the M1 is equal or better only at the last 2...
I guess you assume that these people are making a trade-off, the productivity of a laptop vs the versatility and fun of an ipad.
My guess is that this could apply to a tiny minority of people.
Most of those that repalce a laptop either :
- don't necessaritly need the productivity of laptop (eg. because they don't work with it )
- or like the versaility and fun factor of the ipad (pro) so much that they are ready to give up the pro software and features (and battery life would not be enough of a reason...)
Now if Mac supported touch and pen or even came in a convertible form factor, this would be different, altough it would not make the ipad redundant, but would definitely move a good deal of sales out of iPad (especially pro) and ino hybrid macs.
But as someone already pointed out, this is not in Apple's interest, so it's very unlikely.
Apple wants people to have both Mac AND iPads, not 1 hybrid
That's assuming users choose the Mac instead of PC.
The iPad is pretty much the de facto choice for tablets. For desktop-only stuff, I'm more than fine sticking to inexpensive Windows PCs since I only use them once in a blue moon (outside of work that is). Both Mac and Windows will run Calibre just fine and DRM removal software (e.g. Blu-ray ripping, etc) are often Windows first.
For Apple, the goal will be iPad Pro vs something like Microsoft Surface and other Windows convertibles. Looking at it from a broader perspective, it's in Apple's best interest to expand the iPad Pro's capabilities.
I think you’re missing his point, friend. The 12.9” is portable, but I can tell you that I dont necessarily enjoy using it as a traditional tablet - surfing on the couch, watching content or playing games. It’s fantastic for desktop like apps and content creation however.
With two sets of similar hardware that overpower most computers out there then it just makes sense for the iPad and MacBook to be less of a platform choice and more of a form factor choice.
And like you pointed out earlier with pricing, its not like choosing Pro-level tablets would lower Apple profits. These iPads are already expensive so imagine what it would be like when you can customize RAM options.
OP I think you are asking a great question. Especially for those of us who own the 12.9” Pro.
Personally, I bought my iPad Pro completely caught up in all of the hype of how revolutionary this tablet is. And sure, it is - but the cost is unbelievably high. Especially when we start adding on the accessories that make it like a MacBook.
This is just my experience and I recognize not all of you share it - but I’ve been trying to make my iPad into a Mac since I’ve owned it and it has not lived up to my expectations. iPadOS has made great improvements to the usability of the device but it’s still not a desktop operating system that has gone through decades of refinement. Simple tasks like importing photos to edit is a pain in the ass, using certain web apps like my budget (YNAB) is tedious without multi window support and actual cursor support. The Magic Keyboard is the best keyboard for the device and it’s simply too expensive. The Apple Pencil is also great and reasonably priced but I just can’t get into digital note taking and I am by no means an artist.
I’ve tried using the Pro as a traditional couch tablet and I find it unwieldy to use. I’ve thought about selling it and downgrading to the 10” model. Also, I purchased this because at the time it was the best bang for buck performance from Apple - and now I’m getting better performance out of a cheaper MacBook Air. MacOS is still superior for storing files, organizing photos, video editing and every other “productivity” task.
So maybe I’ll wait for new M2 devices or sell my 12.9” and my 5,1 Mac Pro to get a new Air or Pro. Who know’s.
Personally, I bought my iPad Pro completely caught up in all of the hype of how revolutionary this tablet is. And sure, it is - but the cost is unbelievably high. Especially when we start adding on the accessories that make it like a MacBook.
This is just my experience and I recognize not all of you share it - but I’ve been trying to make my iPad into a Mac since I’ve owned it and it has not lived up to my expectations. iPadOS has made great improvements to the usability of the device but it’s still not a desktop operating system that has gone through decades of refinement. Simple tasks like importing photos to edit is a pain in the ass, using certain web apps like my budget (YNAB) is tedious without multi window support and actual cursor support. The Magic Keyboard is the best keyboard for the device and it’s simply too expensive. The Apple Pencil is also great and reasonably priced but I just can’t get into digital note taking and I am by no means an artist.
I’ve tried using the Pro as a traditional couch tablet and I find it unwieldy to use. I’ve thought about selling it and downgrading to the 10” model. Also, I purchased this because at the time it was the best bang for buck performance from Apple - and now I’m getting better performance out of a cheaper MacBook Air. MacOS is still superior for storing files, organizing photos, video editing and every other “productivity” task.
So maybe I’ll wait for new M2 devices or sell my 12.9” and my 5,1 Mac Pro to get a new Air or Pro. Who know’s.
Well I’ve actually ordered the M1 MacBook to try it and see how it betters my daily life. I love my 12.9 but like you are wondering for my use if it is too big to use on the sofa and around the house or not.
if the next version comes with 11 inch again i may consider selling and picking up the 11 inch as i think for me using it like i would want to use it without a keyboard the size might be a better fit when i have a 13.3 laptop to use for bigger stuff
I think Apple does not see it this way... An hybrid would not move many Windows users to Apple, not much more than ipad does now. Those of us who use Windows don't need an ipad to have touch, pen and even silent operation (surface pro i5 if fanless, as is surface book 13.5 up to i7). But we still have ipads as companion devices because of portability (and I am not talking of the heavy magic keyboard, but he simple smart keyboard), choice of sizes, speakers, cellular together with some great IOS apps. Surface is no threat to Apple. For Apple fans because of software (they generally hate Windows), for Windows people like me because of hardware (lack of decent speakers, bezels, partial lack of cellular, and problematic CPU for the price for the only surface that has all this, the pro x, which by the way comes only in 1 size).
Some form of Apple hybrid (like an ipad with macOS or a convertible Mac) would mainly cannibalize other Apple products and would go against the very idea of ecosystem that Apple has been building (buy as many products as possible that all work together, iphones, ipads, macs, airpods, watches, tv and other home devices and all the accessories....) so it would be more harm than good to Apple despite how desirable it would be to some of their clients... (I mean this very thread is about some people already thinking of giving up ipad pros for the latest macs, which are revolutionary in terms of power and efficiency, but have quite poor versatility, since they are just laptops, no touch, no pen, no cellular, no under 1kg devices, at least for now...)
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I'm considering selling my iPad Pro 11" with magic keyboard and getting the M1 MacBook Air. I mainly use my iPad with my keyboard attached unless I'm at the gym doing cardio. But I already have the iPhone Max so I could get by with just the iPhone as my touch device. For things like photo editing, I'm not sure which is better but it would be nice to go back to a laptop with proper multitasking support and the ability to do pretty much whatever is needed where iOS is limited in many ways that might matter to me.
I would offer this observation: pro level apps are not compatible with touch only interfaces. Full photoshop my someday come to the iPad, but only with keyboard shortcuts. Clip Studio has fully translated to the iPad, but it is not really a touch app--except in the Windows 10 sense. Imo-- a 15" M2 iPad with Mac OS would make a lot of sense
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Hmmm...well I have an 11 inch IPP and I still love it. However, the bombardment of threads and juicy videos about the M1 Macs have me wanting an Air. Do I need it? No, not really. I have been able to do pretty much everything I need to do on my IPP.
I think it’s the cool, new thing as always with Apple. Their marketing is so good, and the reviews have been so good, that I want something I don’t necessarily need.
I went to the Buy page for the Air, and nearly bought one. But I’m trying to get myself to chill out and wait for a while. Sometimes the “I have to have the cool, new thing” wears off after a while.
As far as 11 inch versus 12.9 inch IPP goes, I’ve sometimes wished I had the bigger size but then end up forgetting about it as my 11 does what I need it to do in a smaller footprint.
I guess there are just tradeoffs no matter what device you get. If I moved to the M1 Macs, I’d miss being able to take my screen off and draw on it and that sort of thing. I’ve also become quite used to the multitasking on iPadOS. and the Mac feels like going backward in time with macOS.
I think it’s the cool, new thing as always with Apple. Their marketing is so good, and the reviews have been so good, that I want something I don’t necessarily need.
I went to the Buy page for the Air, and nearly bought one. But I’m trying to get myself to chill out and wait for a while. Sometimes the “I have to have the cool, new thing” wears off after a while.
As far as 11 inch versus 12.9 inch IPP goes, I’ve sometimes wished I had the bigger size but then end up forgetting about it as my 11 does what I need it to do in a smaller footprint.
I guess there are just tradeoffs no matter what device you get. If I moved to the M1 Macs, I’d miss being able to take my screen off and draw on it and that sort of thing. I’ve also become quite used to the multitasking on iPadOS. and the Mac feels like going backward in time with macOS.
Same here.. what has stopped me so far is that it would replace my macbook air 11, which is lighter and I want a 12in macbook, which is even lighter, not a 13.3 macbook air... Also cellular would be another argument for me... I guess if Apple makes a 12in M1, it would be hard to resist, especially if they make it cheaper (I'd go 16GB RAM 512GB storage anyway) or add a cellular option
"Angry iPad User timeline".....love it! LOL
edit: of course I pulled the wrong quote, now I can't fix it
Personally, I am looking to sell my 3rd Gen 12.9” iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard and the Apple Pencil so that I can get one of the new M1 MBP 13” units.
I think Big Sur has made things that much more awesome for users, and some of the real estate programs that I am subscribed to don’t work very well on a mobile operating platform.
I think Big Sur has made things that much more awesome for users, and some of the real estate programs that I am subscribed to don’t work very well on a mobile operating platform.