Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?

[gugy]

Dell has the 5k monitor but that doesn't mean that the systems they sell will be able to run it.

Most likely they'll sell it as an option for the Dell Precision line of towers that can handle pretty much anything you throw at them if configured correctly.

I was leaning toward the MacPro and the 32" 4K display, but the 5k iMac is seriously intriguing.

Yeah, I am on the fence about getting a nMP as I was planning until the iMac 5k showed up.
Most of my work is Photoshop, so while the 6 core nMP would be great for it, I could do very well maxing out the iMac 5k plus that display is awesome.

The only thing that makes me not jump on it right away is the fact the innards of the iMac will fade away faster than that amazing display. Heck I still have my 23" and 30" ACD after almost 10 years of heavy use. I feel would be a crime using the iMac for 3/4 years that is my usual upgrade cycle.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, I am on the fence about getting a nMP as I was planning until the iMac 5k showed up.
Most of my work is Photoshop, so while the 6 core nMP would be great for it, I could do very well maxing out the iMac 5k plus that display is awesome.

The only thing that makes me not jump on it right away is the fact the innards of the iMac will fade away faster than that amazing display. Heck I still have my 23" and 30" ACD after almost 10 years of heavy use. I feel would be a crime using the iMac for 3/4 years that is my usual upgrade cycle.

Same here, and I've just started putting some pain into a late 2011 iMac that I got not but two years ago. The biggest problem with the iMac in heavy use cases is the monitor. You're essentially buy a new display every time you upgrade, even if the monitor cost is negligible.

The iMac I have now is just fine, except for the lack of USB 3 and TBolt 2 which I'd put to use day one.

 

[gugy]

Same here, and I've just started putting some pain into a late 2011 iMac that I got not but two years ago. The biggest problem with the iMac in heavy use cases is the monitor. You're essentially buy a new display every time you upgrade, even if the monitor cost is negligible.

The iMac I have now is just fine, except for the lack of USB 3 and TBolt 2 which I'd put to use day one.

It's a bummer. If the TB displays were update to 5K, would be a no-brainer getting one. I like the nMP because the quality is better and they have a way better resale value after 3/4 years than an iMac. But is really dropping a perfect useful display that always make me cringe about AIO solutions.
Still, the finance cost of having an iMac might still make sense since they are cheaper overall and best bang for the buck. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Digital Skunk]

It's a bummer. If the TB displays were update to 5K, would be a no-brainer getting one. I like the nMP because the quality is better and they have a way better resale value after 3/4 years than an iMac. But is really dropping a perfect useful display that always make me cringe about AIO solutions.
Still, the finance cost of having an iMac might still make sense since they are cheaper overall and best bang for the buck. Decisions, decisions.

Or even 4k. Display resolution has always run 5 years + ahead of content resolution but I doubt I'd be upset with two 4k panels now and in the future.

The whole toss your monitor with the computer just doesn't help when you have the power to update every two or three years.

That and the dual GPUs of the nMP makes me still lean toward it even with its built in / planned obselecense.

 

[mintakax]

Really strange that Apple doesn't have a great 4k monitor to pair with the nMP.
I guess projections must have suggested not a money maker ?

 

[VirtualRain]

That was an insanely stupid prediction. If they can make a 4k 21", why would they have trouble making a 5k 27"?

Regardless of weather the guy was a fool or a lark, there was good reason to doubt a 5K panel (at any size) due to the technology required to drive it, and the price of the Dell panel. The fact that Apple has worked some magic to make this happen does not dismiss the challenge it presented. In fact, even now that it's out, it's still not clear how Apple has overcome these challenges.

----------

I'm pretty sure their plan is to use two DP 1.2 connections. If Apple supports MST correctly (and that is an if there), there is no reason the Dell 5k monitor shouldn't be able to work on a Mac Pro. So nMP users will have just as many options as the classic Mac Pro users.

Yes, the key question is... Will Apple provide support for the Dell 5K in an update to OS X?

-----------

BTW, I've been keeping an eye on this display... True 4K Cinema resolution in a 31" panel that will provide a nearly perfect (for me) 150 PPI at native resolution... http://www.lg.com/au/it-monitors/lg-31MU97

 

[goMac]

Yes, the key question is... Will Apple provide support for the Dell 5K in an update to OS X?

If it's the same panel Apple is using, hopefully. But we'll see. At the very least I could see them be open to fixing support for the Dell panel, as they've been pretty open to third party displays recently.

 

[MacVidCards]

This post is totally failing to acknowledge that the nMP does have two independent DP 1.2 channels, so it can drive a 5k display with MST. Will it drive a 5k Apple Thunderbolt display? Who knows. But a cMP will never be able to drive one either even with all the GPU upgrades in the world.

FWIW, the display signals aren't squeezed into the 4x PCIE lanes. The display signal is a separate signal. The issue is it's put into packets parallel to the 4x PCIe lanes by the Thunderbolt chipset, but the Thunderbolt chipset isn't clocked high enough to deliver a DP 1.3 signal. Apple could totally in theory keep Thunderbolt at 4x PCIe lanes, and clock the chip higher to deliver a DP 1.3 signal, but that would change the Thunderbolt standard.

I've been trying to decide if you really don't understand how things work or if you are just pretending.

The DP 1.3 standard is official.

Nvidia and AMD are working on cards with this standard.

When the new GTX1080 Titan comes out with DP 1.3 I will be posting the screenshots of it running a 5K with a single DP cable on my 5,1.

This won't happen with a 6,1 because it will be hobbled with DP 1.2 until it hits the recycling facility.

If the 5K display requires 2@ DP 1.2 in tandem to run, it will remain to be seen if Apple will implement this in it's drivers. In which case, all things being equal, both cMP and nMP will have equal likelihood of running a 5K. Much like Nvidia cards running 4K @ 60 Hz they may simply toss a wrench in the works to keep the cMP from doing it (embarrassment to a minimum.) In which case I will be on here telling you how to circumvent it.

Despite the frivolity (and brand loyalty, BRAVO ! ) of trying to marry the words "5K" and "Thunderbolt" as if there is some logical connection, there is no earthly reason to expect anyone outside of Apple to make this connection. So a 5K display using DP 1.3 will work on a cMP eventually, but NOT on a nMP.(not the one shipping now, anyhow)

 

[VirtualRain]

Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?

If it's the same panel Apple is using, hopefully. But we'll see. At the very least I could see them be open to fixing support for the Dell panel, as they've been pretty open to third party displays recently.

Can I ask... Why are you so keen on 5K? Why not 4K?

Maybe you've thought this through, and know you love 2560x1440 at 2x Retina sharpness, but if not, spend some time with a Retina display and try it at different effective resolutions to see what PPI density suits you most.

To my eyes, at 90-110 PPI (non retina displays) things are too big and fuzzy and at 200-220 (native retina screens) text and chrome is too tiny to see and interact with. Of course at 2x on a Retina display everything is sharp but too big again. For me, 150 PPI is a perfect density for a balance of legibility and screen real-estate.

The 5K display at 27" (like all of Apple's retina computer displays) is around 220PPI so if you're like me, you're going to have to run it on some scaled HiDPI setting (unless you really like large sharp text at 2x). Not that there's anything wrong with scaling... Apples scaling algorithms are very good (imperceptible from native), but 150PPI on a 27" display is actually achieved at around 4K resolution. And 4K2K on a 30" panel is a perfect 154PPI at native resolution.

So if your eyes are like mine and prefer a 150 PPI density, you will run the 5K display at what is effectively 3840x2160. Which, as you can see, is going to a lot of extra trouble for nothing. You could just get a 4K display tomorrow at a size that suits you, and be off to the races.

 

[MacVidCards]

Can I ask... Why are you so keen on 5K? Why not 4K?

16K is enough for anyone, right?

 

[CASLondon]

Let's return to the original question...

Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?

Answer - lagging behind before the year is out

"High-End Retina 5K iMac Benchmarked Faster Than Low-End Mac Pro" from today's front page

 

[theSeb]

Let's return to the original question...

Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?

Answer - lagging behind before the year is out

"High-End Retina 5K iMac Benchmarked Faster Than Low-End Mac Pro" from today's front page

Yes, because Geekbench is the final authority on gauging real world performance.

Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?
It leaves the Mac Pro user having to buy a 4K monitor from another manufacturer. The answer is really simple.

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

Let's return to the original question...

Where would a 4K iMac leave Mac Pro users if no 4K TBD is announced?

Answer - lagging behind before the year is out

"High-End Retina 5K iMac Benchmarked Faster Than Low-End Mac Pro" from today's front page

I don't understand why people are so shocked that the highest end iMac can beat the lowest end Mac Pro.

Also, as the iMac throttles down after hours of work, the Mac Pro will still be humming along nicely.

 

[Gav Mack]

I don't understand why people are so shocked that the highest end iMac can beat the lowest end Mac Pro.

Also, as the iMac throttles down after hours of work, the Mac Pro will still be humming along nicely.

The iMac due to Haswell will always beat the Xeon built on the previous generation of silicon single core, it will be the same when the 7,1 goes Haswell E and the others Broadwell.

I think the retina iMac will throttle down a lot sooner than an hour or two while the 6,1 chugs alone maxed out in almost complete silence.

A pair of DP cables will get that 27 5k Dell I'm pretty sure of by the time that ships and if you plug another 2 cables in you'll have two 5k and yah boo sucks to any of the retina iMac friends who have been taking the mickey..

If the Dell was shipping now this thread would only be about Apple not bringing their own out. Give me Dell's LCD better coating and superb 3 year warranty any day of the week and if you're still not happy you can have a TB27 as the third screen next to the pair of Dells!

 

[theSeb]

The iMac due to Haswell will always beat the Xeon built on the previous generation of silicon single core, it will be the same when the 7,1 goes Haswell E and the others Broadwell.

I think the retina iMac will throttle down a lot sooner than an hour or two while the 6,1 chugs alone maxed out in almost complete silence.

A pair of DP cables will get that 27 5k Dell I'm pretty sure of by the time that ships and if you plug another 2 cables in you'll have two 5k and yah boo sucks to any of the retina iMac friends who have been taking the mickey..

If the Dell was shipping now this thread would only be about Apple not bringing their own out. Give me Dell's LCD better coating and superb 3 year warranty any day of the week and if you're still not happy you can have a TB27 as the third screen next to the pair of Dells!

True, but if the rumoured price point of $2500 for the Dell is correct, then it's not really a value proposition, in comparison to the riMac, especially since in the UK it will probably around £2000 to £2300

 

[Gav Mack]

True, but if the rumoured price point of $2500 for the Dell is correct, then it's not really a value proposition, in comparison to the riMac, especially since in the UK it will probably around £2000 to £2300

Dells RRP and true real world selling price are quite different though, my U2413 was just over half its retail money. I bought 8 Dell optiplex 3020 plus 24 inch LCD for a client in August and I had a 45% mark down from RRP, 40% for a further 3 only last week.

 

[theSeb]

Dells RRP and true real world selling price are quite different though, my U2413 was just over half its retail money. I bought 8 Dell optiplex 3020 plus 24 inch LCD for a client in August and I had a 45% mark down from RRP, 40% for a further 3 only last week.

True, but when it first comes out it's usually pretty close to RRP. I see that the UP3214Q is now selling for around £1400. If I remember correctly, it was selling for around £1800-£2000 when it was first available in the UK a couple of months ago. It might even have been more.

 

[Gav Mack]

True, but when it first comes out it's usually pretty close to RRP. I see that the UP3214Q is now selling for around £1400. If I remember correctly, it was selling for around £1800-£2000 when it was first available in the UK a couple of months ago. It might even have been more.

True, people may have to wait for a decent price and by then who knows they can have a TB2. With screens I prefer to stay well back from the bleeding edge of technology. Went and saw a client who uses NEC screens for his CC MP's and he said he's not even moving over to 4K yet fully cos he's yet to find a panel to touch his in terms of the quality of the output for the main display, they notice glitches more with this split screen technology and they have been shunted sideways for use with palettes and tools or been returned to sender.

Definitely too much of the 'keeping up with the Jones's' going on here

 

[AppleDroid]

True, people may have to wait for a decent price and by then who knows they can have a TB2. With screens I prefer to stay well back from the bleeding edge of technology. Went and saw a client who uses NEC screens for his CC MP's and he said he's not even moving over to 4K yet fully cos he's yet to find a panel to touch his in terms of the quality of the output for the main display, they notice glitches more with this split screen technology and they have been shunted sideways for use with palettes and tools or been returned to sender.

Definitely too much of the 'keeping up with the Jones's' going on here

And the cost is currently prohibitive. NEC is releasing their first, large 32" 4K this year but it will cost as much as a base nMP.

I have an older 2690wuxi2 which I'd like to upgrade only because 1920x1200 is really limiting for what I do now (photo and retouching) with hiding PS tools/palettes but I cannot justify paying $2K more for a 4K display when I get a 1440p from NEC for under a grand right now.

 

[Nemic]

As the thread starter I just thought I would give my own update

I currently have a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro Retina (which I love), and I really really wanted an updated Thunderbolt display from Apple which (at least) brought it into line with the current iMacs - better screen, slimmer, USB 3.0 etc - and I would have bought one as soon as they went on sale.

My MacBook can't run a retina/4K display, and if Apple had announced a new 4/5K display I was considering getting a MacPro to pair with it.

However with the advent of the 5K Retina iMac, I have decided to buy one of those instead. I do a lot of photo editing and some Final Cut Pro, and I cannot wait to get that screen on my desk!! The cost is much lower that I would have expected an iMac with Retina to be, and that is a big bonus in my book.

 

[lbotez]

Really strange that Apple doesn't have a great 4k monitor to pair with the nMP.
I guess projections must have suggested not a money maker ?

I'm getting really discouraged. I'd like a 4K monitor for my nMP.

Which Dell is the one most people are using? I'm not interested in paying 3.6K for a Sharp monitor...

The cheaper monitors seem to have problems running at 60Hz.