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Which DSLR?

miloblithe said:
OK, I apologize for being mean. Your teacher probably knows more about photography than I do. Or at least I certainly hope she does.

Have you used a DSLR before? 75-200 is for making things that are far away fill a relatively large part of the frame. If the widest lens you have is 75mm, that will severely limit the kinds of shots you will be able to take.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_view

The XTi does indeed have non-ideal ergonomics for large hands, but as a 6'1" person with a 6'5" wingspan who took about 1000 pictures with his XTi last Saturday, I can assure you that it's an entirely usable camera.

As for the "high tech" in the 30D that the XTi lacks, I can assure you that there is none. It's the same tech. Don't get me wrong. It's a better camera and I'd trade my XTi for one in a second, but if your budget is limited the differences are not worth it.

Filters are a poor solution for making a lens able to focus more closely (macro) or work at a wider or narrower angle. These are low-quality methods (albeit cheap) to achieve what is best accomplished with different lenses.
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I have never used a DSLR before, due to the fact that everywhere I go that has some on display, they never have lens' attached...
I do understand what the lens' do, and what the 'mm' means

That is good to know, but I would like a camera that feels solid, I have read that the D40 does not feel very solid...
Just noticed the XTi does have that dust removing technology, Does the XTi take good quality shots? IDK why, but when I look at the XTi it doesn't look like a real DSLR, lol... and after reading around, lots of people recommend the XT over the XTi, do you have any idea why??

Thanks for the filters info...



Here is a list of the Nikon and Canon cameras that are in my budget (with there kit lens)
-Nikon D80
-Nikon D70
-Nikon D40x
-Nikon D40
-Canon 30D
-Canon XTi
-Canon XT

So basically, recommend one of those, :p
 
Westside guy said:
Okay, camera recommendation.

Frankly, since your teacher shoots Canon, and sounds very strongly biased towards the brand - you probably should get a Canon.

Since you're 14, if I remember correctly - don't overbuy. Get the Digital Rebel XT (to save a few bucks) or XTi . You're really not going to see the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels (or 10 vs 12 for that matter). Then use your savings to buy some decent glass, since you've got the money. I've used the Canon kit lens, and I don't particularly like it - but I'm a Nikon shooter so what do I know. :D

If your teacher recommended a different body, then you probably shouldn't be posting the question here anyway. :p
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True... between the XT and XTi what should I get? is the only difference the MP? I'll check this out soon.
Decent 'glass'? lol, sorry... does this mean lens'? lol
My teacher has not recommended a canon body, she just prefers canon lol...


EDIT: checked, and the XT does not have the dust removing thing, but the XTi does... Only a $150 difference...
So maybe I could get the XT and just take it to the place that cleans them for free, and use that $150 towards a better lens...
Anyone want to post a\some good lens' to go with the XTi or XT, for Landscape, Portrait, and Macro(not intense macro, maybe 85mm-105mm)
 
People recommend the XT over the XTi for one reason and one reason alone: it's cheaper. The thinking is that on a limited budget, you'll see more improvement in getting better or more versatile lenses and accessories like a flash than you will by stepping up to the next camera body. This thinking is, quite simply, true.

Take some time to read:

dpreview.com
photozone.de/8Reviews/index.html
slrgear.com

I'd recommend getting the XTi and the kit lens. Start learning the possibilities and limitations of that combination, and then make purchases from there.
 
Tumeg101 said:
True... between the XT and XTi what should I get? is the only difference the MP? I'll check this out soon.
Decent 'glass'? lol, sorry... does this mean lens'? lol
My teacher has not recommended a canon body, she just prefers canon lol...


EDIT: checked, and the XT does not have the dust removing thing, but the XTi does... Only a $150 difference...
So maybe I could get the XT and just take it to the place that cleans them for free, and use that $150 towards a better lens...
Anyone want to post a\some good lens' to go with the XTi or XT, for Landscape, Portrait, and Macro(not intense macro, maybe 85mm-105mm)
Click to expand...

The XTi has some differences that might make it worth buying, but not really necessary. Also take the D40x off your list, it's not worth the extra cost over the D40.

Really your two options should be the D40 and the Canon XT. Now go to a photography store and check them out in person.
 
miloblithe said:
I'd recommend getting the XTi and the kit lens. Start learning the possibilities and limitations of that combination, and then make purchases from there.
Click to expand...

I would do that, but I have read in a few places that the canon kit lens is not very good... it's slow, and bad with color...
So maybe the XT body + 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM standard zoom...
Would that be a nice lens to buy with the camera? Or do you still recommend the kit lens,


EDIT:
So the XT + some nice lens' would be better for me then the 30D and the one nice telephoto lens?
 
Tumeg101 said:
I would do that, but I have read in a few places that the canon kit lens is not very good... it's slow, and bad with color...
So maybe the XT body + 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM standard zoom...
Would that be a nice lens to buy with the camera? Or do you still recommend the kit lens,
Click to expand...

Bad with color? Where are you reading this stuff.

It's bad with CA and vignetting, and yes slow.
 
Tumeg101 said:
I would do that, but I have read in a few places that the canon kit lens is not very good... it's slow, and bad with color...
So maybe the XT body + 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM standard zoom...
Would that be a nice lens to buy with the camera? Or do you still recommend the kit lens,
Click to expand...

Do you have any camera that you can get your hands on? Have you used point and shoot cameras? It'd be helpful to know what your frame of reference is. Can you look at your teacher's camera? 28 isn't very wide on a cropped sensor. If you want to upgrade the lens, I'd suggest Sigma's 17-70 DC Macro. That'd be a great all-around lens for a beginner.
 
miloblithe said:
Do you have any camera that you can get your hands on? Have you used point and shoot cameras? It'd be helpful to know what your frame of reference is. Can you look at your teacher's camera? 28 isn't very wide on a cropped sensor. If you want to upgrade the lens, I'd suggest Sigma's 17-70 DC Macro. That'd be a great all-around lens for a beginner.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the crop factor on the Canon non full frame cameras is 1.6x so a 28mm lens would be in reality a 45mm. Nikon uses slightly larger sensors so the crop factor is 1.5x
 
miloblithe said:
Do you have any camera that you can get your hands on? Have you used point and shoot cameras? It'd be helpful to know what your frame of reference is. Can you look at your teacher's camera? 28 isn't very wide on a cropped sensor. If you want to upgrade the lens, I'd suggest Sigma's 17-70 DC Macro. That'd be a great all-around lens for a beginner.
Click to expand...

I currently have a sony cybershot, idk the exact model number...
I may be able to play with\hold\test my teachers cameras after class on Monday, but the only camera she takes out and sues, is the EOS 1Ds... so not very good help.
EDIT: Just looked for that lens on Amazon (only place I will buy this stuff, besides of course in store) and this lens for canon cameras is not available...

Random Forums said:
I don;t know about the XTi but the XT just seems kinda Soccer momish to me so I went to the 30D. It has a better feel to me. Have you went to the store and held these camera?
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel, and why I want the 30D... it looks and probably feels more professional, like I said... I really want a camera that is solid, and doesn't feel cheap...
 
Tumeg101 said:
I currently have a sony cybershot, idk the exact model number...
I may be able to play with\hold\test my teachers cameras after class on Monday, but the only camera she takes out and sues, is the EOS 1Ds... so not very good help.
EDIT: Just looked for that lens on Amazon (only place I will buy this stuff, besides of course in store) and this lens for canon cameras is not available...



This is exactly how I feel, and why I want the 30D... it looks and probably feels more professional, like I said... I really want a camera that is solid, and doesn't feel cheap...
Click to expand...

Don't buy a low end Canon if you don't want something that feels cheap. I'm sorry if I offended any cheaper Canon users but it's facts.

By that I mean any Rebel series.
 
RevToTheRedline said:
Don't buy a low end Canon if you don't want something that feels cheap. I'm sorry if I offended any cheaper Canon users but it's facts.
Click to expand...

I was reading, and the only thing the extra money for the 30D is paying for is:
Random Site said:
you're paying $800- extra for the features such as better build, control wheel, faster shooting speed, better af with f2.8 or faster lenses and better viewfinder. There's more, but those are the biggies.
Click to expand...


EDIT
After looking around amazon, I found this: http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-17-70mm...9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1192595005&sr=8-3

Would be AMAZING if I had $100 extra in my budget, for the 30D and this... 2 extra battery's, battery pack grip thing, the lens (awesome lens btw), and extras

EDIT2
Random Site said:
Another thought--and one that matters to me, is that the shutter on the 30D is rated for something like 100,000 actuations. the XT is something like 30,000? If you plan to own this thing for a long time, or shoot a lot of photos, then I would think that the 30D would win on that argument alone. :)
Click to expand...
That's what I mean when I say the 30D will\might last me longer then the XT

EDIT3 from the same source I got the above quote from, they say if you want a solid feeling camera, but not a rebel... go for the 10D... Look it up on amazon if you want, they have it for $350, they say its the same image quality as the 30D just the 10D is cheaper, bigger, not as fancy of features, and... I think thats it, lol

EDIT4
I'd advise you to spring for the Canon 30D if one or more of the following applies to you:

1. You want to meter your subjects precisely, and have used spot meters before
2. You want to take rapid consecutive action photos without having the camera slow down
3. You want to review the photos you take on an LCD before you check them on a computer
Click to expand...

The only one that applies to me is #3.... but this is only during my photography class, I take a picture and the teacher will look at it, and show the other students... idk if a 1.8" screen is big enough for that,
and the 20D is only $50 cheaper than the 30D...
Looks like I will be getting either the 20D or 30D, probably the 30D... unless I need another $50 to get a lens with the camera lol
 
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Tumeg101 said:
Instead of posting ANOTHER thread for this.... I will just change this one,
I talked to my teacher about the Nikon D40, and she said that MOST pros use canon, and the reason you see Nikons allot is because Nikon sponsors allot of
Click to expand...

McDonalds serves the MOST hamburgers, are they the best? Windows is on the MOST computers, is it the best? MOST professional photographers use PROFESSIONAL cameras, a D40 or a Rebel XT is NOT a professional camera. If you're not going to spend $3500+ on a camera body and shoot what most pros shoot in the conditions most pros shoot it, what most pros shoot really isn't all that applicable just as what racing tires go 100 laps on a track on a race car doesn't translate into what tire your family car should have on it. There are places where one manufacturer's gear makes sense over another- for instance, if you're going to buy a 400/2.8 lens, the price difference on the Canon will pretty-much pay for the body- but if $6500+ lenses aren't in your future it's really a moot point.

With that said, MOST professionals can get the shot with equivalent equipment no matter which manufacturer makes it. On this subject your teacher sounds uninformed, and I'd caution you to take their branding advice with a pinch of salt (or ask them if a Pro with a Hasselblad is less of a pro because they're not shooting Canon ;) )

FWIW, Nikon isn't nearly as large as Canon and doesn't sponsor near the same number of events.

Tumeg101 said:
stuff having to do with photography, and also Nikon cameras\lens' have to be cleaned once every two months, which costs $35-$75 (each time you have them cleaned) and the canon ones also have to get cleaned, but a place near my house does it for free... Please note, I didn't know what exactly she meant by this until Clix Pix explained it a little better,
Click to expand...

Sensors have to be cleaned at the same relative interval on pretty-much all DSLRs. The "anti-dust" "feature" of some Canon models has tested to be *worse* than not using it. Learning to clean the sensor isn't all that difficult and if you use the right stuff and do it correctly, it's no big deal. However, if the "place near your house" does it for free and they're NOT a camera store, I'd be a little wary- heck, I'd be a lot wary. My camera goes in a lot of different environments and I change lenses going from studio to field shooting and from landscape to nature- and I don't have to clean my Nikon's sensor nearly that often though. I think your teacher may be a little under-informed in that department as well.

As to plonking down $1200 on your first camera, I'd advise you to go with either the D40 or the XT- you don't know if you're going to do well with photography and the body is going to get just as old no matter how much you spend on it and the lenses will work on a new body in a few years when you're ready and then the bodies will be much better and you'll have enough experience to know what features are important to what you're shooting.

Save the extra money, or invest it in lighting and support, which will help you improve your photography over the hand-held, existing light photographers. Whichever body you get is going to be overshadowed (but still capable of taking great pictures) in 3-4 years anyway- no point in spending that money now when better cameras are likely to be cheaper in that short a timeframe.
 
OK, I think you need to calm down a bit and think twice before making a decision.

MY recommendation and opinions:

- Yes, a D300 would feel more professional than a D40. But since it is your first camera, saving your money right now is the best thing you can do. The picture quality within almost all of the dSLR cameras is almost the same, you won't be able to notice a difference easily. So don't think that the more you spend the best your photos would be.

- Also, believe me. A D40 does not feels cheap, it just not feels as professional as the D300. Again, don't buy a camera if you haven't played with it for a while. I know you have difficulties finding a store with dSLR cameras. But then go somewhere you can find them. You are going to spend a lot of money in the camera, make sure you like it.

- Be careful of where you read reviews. Reading reviews at Amazon or Flickr is not going to help. Go to dpreview, or other more specialized web pages dedicated to photography.

- The lens you said you wanted to get with the Canon 30D is not going to be enough. Most of the time you'll want a wide angle lens. So definitely don't buy only a telephoto lens.

My camera recommendations:

The Nikon D40 or the Canon XTi. Both cameras take photos that are of almost (if not the same) quality as their upper level cameras. And even tough they are not that well built, they would last you a long time.

Remember, not because you have the money you are forced to spend it all.:)

EDIT: About what lens to get. Just get the kit lens, and if you really need it, a telephoto lens. But don't start spending in expensive lenses.

First see what do you like taking photos of. If you really like taking photos of sports (hockey) you may need a faster lens.
 
compuwar said:
...However, if the "place near your house" does it for free and they're NOT a camera store, I'd be a little wary- heck, I'd be a lot wary...
Click to expand...
It is a camera store, my teacher told me about the place... it is an official camera store, but I have never known about or gone there before, that is why I said I haven't played with any DSLR's cause there are no camera stores around...

compuwar said:
As to plonking down $1200 on your first camera, I'd advise you to go with either the D40 or the XT- you don't know if you're going to do well with photography and the body is going to get just as old no matter how much you spend on it and the lenses will work on a new body in a few years when you're ready and then the bodies will be much better and you'll have enough experience to know what features are important to what you're shooting.
Save the extra money, or invest it in lighting and support, which will help you improve your photography over the hand-held, existing light photographers. Whichever body you get is going to be overshadowed (but still capable of taking great pictures) in 3-4 years anyway- no point in spending that money now when better cameras are likely to be cheaper in that short a timeframe.
Click to expand...

True, but between the XT\XTi and the D40, idk what to get... I would actually get the D40, but it would be awkward walking in class with the D40, after she advised against it... I know I shouldn't have that be the reason for me to not get Nikon,
I guess your right... But when I ask my dad to buy it off amazon for me, he will ask what my teacher said, and I will say she suggests canon because of this and this, but other people say this and this... he will reply with 'she is the professional, why would you listen to what people over the internet say?'
And then he will either make me feel bad for the decision, or w\e...
ugh...
guess I am going back to the D40 decision, if my parents say no... then idk what to do... anyway, for the D40 now (sorry for all the mind changing)
What lens' should I get?? First I was suggested the D40 + 18-135mm kit lens, and then after that just buy what you need... is this a good idea?


EDIT Roco, thanks for the advice, you have been great with helping me with these decisions, the reviews I read are from dpreview, and other good sites.. "Remember, not because you have the money you are forced to spend it all." that is true, thanks for the post... guess I will go and try to play around with the D40,
But I most likely WILL change my mind again, lol...
Thanks everyone!
 
Tumeg101 said:
It is a camera store, my teacher told me about the place... it is an official camera store, but I have never known about or gone there before, that is why I said I haven't played with any DSLR's cause there are no camera stores around...
Click to expand...

Then that should be your next step. Remember that like your teacher, the sales people will likely have their own biases, and you should take them with a grain of salt- but hands-on is the best way to do things- and if they actually have both cameras, shoot with them both with lenses you're likely to buy.

Tumeg101 said:
True, but between the XT\XTi and the D40, idk what to get... I would actually get the D40, but it would be awkward walking in class with the D40, after she advised against it... I know I shouldn't have that be the reason for me to not get Nikon,
Click to expand...

Either one will work- handle them both and choose. If the XT works in your hands then get it if you prefer not to swim upstream.

Tumeg101 said:
I guess your right... But when I ask my dad to buy it off amazon for me, he will ask what my teacher said, and I will say she suggests canon because of this and this, but other people say this and this... he will reply with 'she is the professional, why would you listen to what people over the internet say?'
And then he will either make me feel bad for the decision, or w\e...
Click to expand...

Lots of us make money with photography- your teacher isn't the only professional on the planet. However, ultimately *you* have to shoot with the camera, so see if your camera store carries both and try each if they do. Make your choice with as much information as you can get.

(Edit: We all have our biases too, and we may shoot different things than you do- but ultimately that's why you should handle them and do some research too- you should be happy with your choice no matter if it's what the teacher agrees with or not- if you can't get good pictures with a D40, you're not likely to get good pictures with an XT. If you can get good pictures with one, you should be able to get good pictures with the other.)

It's a major purchase for you, so treat it like a school project- do your research, write up your findings and see what you come up with. Heck, take the research to your teacher and have them rebut it if they wish- but understand that in the end, you need to be the one comfortable with the camera- and also understand it's *just* a camera- the photographer makes a *lot* more difference.

Tumeg101 said:
ugh...
guess I am going back to the D40 decision, if my parents say no... then idk what to do... anyway, for the D40 now (sorry for all the mind changing)
What lens' should I get?? First I was suggested the D40 + 18-135mm kit lens, and then after that just buy what you need... is this a good idea?
Click to expand...

As I said before, that lens doesn't get good reviews, and I'd steer away from it. I think the 18-50 is a little short, the 18-70 is a lot better- but try to handle both bodies before you go looking at lenses for one or the other.

Also, remember that you're growing- what fits your hands well now may not be the same in two years- another reason to go with a smaller body up front.
 
just get a nice, decent SLR with a kit lens around 18-55 (or something close) and just shoot the darn thing. don't worry about lenses until your pics start to look good. learn from others, read articles on the internet, borrow books from the library. see what works for YOU.

Just an observation, but the more professional wedding photographers in our area tend to skew toward Nikons more than Canons. We usually see more Canons with the "less professional" wedding photogs in our area. This is NOT to say Nikon is better. It's just what's around us in the Southern California area. I know 2 Canon shooters that are absolutely fabulous (even when we swap cameras and they shoot Nikon - handling is slower, but the pics are just as good). The pictures have more to do with talent than equipment by far.
 
If you decide on the D40, see if they have an option for a D40 with the 18-135 kit lens. Should be around $200 more than the D40 with 18-55.

The extra reach will be worth it for the money. Then NEVER take your lens off anymore.

OR

if you dad is really nice,

get the 18-200 w/ VR lens ($750) w/ the cheapest D40 you can get and you probably won't need a better lens or camera for at least 3 years. Please check to make sure this lens is compatible with the D40 first. I know the D40 struggles with some lenses (I've never owned a D40)

That said,
Save up some money for a way to carry/protect your investment. Lowepro makes decent, affordable, lightweight bags (my partner uses one). Tamrac makes great heavyweight bags, but they're pricier and somewhat heavy (I use these). You'll also need to invest in storage (cards) and other little things.

Best piece of equipment to improve your photography for fast moving subjects or just still photos in low-light:
monopod Bogen 676B Around $35, get one for christmas

just don't forget that pictures from only one height are BORING!

D80 is a great camera and an awesome sensor, but just stick with a lower end Canon or Nikon and develop your skills. When you're ready, the next D40 will blow away the current higher end cameras. Camera bodies don't last very long. Lenses last longer (until you decide to go FF & have DX lenses). But actual technique and skill will last you a lifetime (and is applicable to ANY camera).
 
THIS IS IMPORTANT. LISTEN.

OP, let me tell you something.

The body is *NOT* what you want to invest in.

EVERY YEAR THOSE GET BETTER.

The lens *IS* what you want to get in. THOSE STAY THE SAME FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

Get yourself a rebel xti. (or a rebel xt).

Then go, with the ridiculous amount of money you will save, and buy yourself the 60 2.8 macro lens, the Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM, and the Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f2.8 XR Di-II LD Asph IF.

With this line up you will have a full FANTASTIC QUALITY range from 17-200.

Anyways, you can shop around for lenses on your own as well... but the main point is...

THE LENSES ARE WHAT MAKE GOOD PICTURES. Get the rebel xt(i). Really.
 
We shoot with that same Tamron (with a Nikon mount). I can recommend it with no reservations. Fit & finish are not nearly on par with Nikkor lenses, and it feels "gritty" while using it, but what counts are the results and this lens really delivers.

Mr. B is correct in what he suggests, especially if you commit to Canon and have the money... but I'd suggest holding off on the macro and tele for a while. Work with the kit lens first before putting money toward new lenses. And make sure you have something to protect your camera and lenses with.
 
Alright, so I spent the last 25 minutes reading this thread, and I really want my time back.

I think the OP is getting some really good advice from people who actually know what they are talking about, but is unwilling to listen. This is more than likely as a result of his relatively young age and/or maturity level. One comment I do want to make is that when I was 14, I didn't have as difficult of a choice when chosing cameras, because the only money I had would barely suffice for me to ride my bike to the local pizza shop and get a slice.

Do you really NEED an SLR? You seem to be just getting into the thick of it all, and I think that using a 30D or even a D40 in full auto will simply impede your learning, that is if you are interested in knowing more about photography.

My advice to you is to go for something like the Nikon FM10 (of, if your teacher insists, a Canon A1), get some black and white film, and learn how to take pictures. Save the rest of the money, and get yourself a nice car in a couple of years.
 
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