Which Mac Mini is better? 2011 Mid-level or 2012 Base?

[cocacolakid]

If you dont need USB 3, the 2011 is better. Same speed, runs Snow and speedier graphics capable of medium level gaming. It only runs a little hotter, but still very silent and low power.

It's not the same speed though. The new 2012 midgrade mini is running a quad core CPU, not a dual core. It's also on Ivy Bridge, and has faster RAM. (and USB 3.0)

The real difference is no dedicated video card.

People keep getting hung up on integrated graphics. The HD 3000 and HD 4000 graphics are light years ahead of every integrated graphics that came before them, with the HD 4000 being significantly faster than the HD 3000 of just a year ago. It will be able to play games just fine. Your frame rates will not be as high as a dedicated graphics card, obviously, but it's not like we're talking about going from 40fps to 11fps because of HD 4000.

Here is a benchmark review of HD 4000 playing Windows games http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmarked.73567.0.html

2011 mini midgrade model vs 2012 midgrade model comparison:

2011: 2.7Ghz Dual Core on Sandy Bridge
2012: 2.3Ghz Quad Core on Ivy Bridge

Level 3 Cache:
2011: 4mb shared system cache
2012: 6mb shared system cache

Don't get hung up on the clock speeds. We're talking about dual core vs quad core. The reason I bought my 2011 mini server instead of the mid-grade 2011 mini was because of the quad core vs dual core difference. The quad core cpu's eat the lunch of the dual cores.

Look at the Geekbench scores on Everymac:

2011
base 2.3Ghz Dual Core 5839/6400
midgrade 2.5Ghz Dual Core 6472/7224
midgrade upgraded cpu 2.7Ghz Dual Core 6980/7758
server 2.0Ghz Quad Core 8573/9456

The server model, despite being significantly slower clock speed, is a much faster CPU because it's Quad Core. There were a lot of posts about which one was the best to buy if you wanted the fastest 2011 mini in this forum.

My server with an SSD hit 8887 on Geekbench in the 32 bit test (the / above with the two scores is for the free 32 bit Geekbench scores vs the paid 64 bit Geekbench scores, I've never bought Geekbench)

The mid-level $2799 Macbook Retina 15" has the same 2.6Ghz Quad Core CPU as the new mini upgrade option, and the rMBP Geekbench scores are 11832/13003. I would expect a mini with an SSD to be in that same ballpark and the mini with Fusion Drive to be close to that, but a little lower (for about $1500 less).

This is a huge upgrade in the 2012 mini and if you can afford to spend the $100 CPU upgrade and either add the Fusion Drive or swap out your own SSD you'll have an even faster machine.

 

[jshbckr]

Called a local Apple Store, no dice on in-stock mid-level 2011 mini. They are apparently selling the base 2011 for $550... totally not worth it. For $50 you get the way better Intel HD4000 and Ivy Bridge + USB 3.0. No brainer.

The refurb store was selling the mid-level 2011 for $550 earlier today... but I hesitated and lost it.

Looks like it's base 2012 for me.

 

[cocacolakid]

If I understood correctly the "Fusion Drive" available in the Mac Mini w/ 1TB or more HD, is really managed by Lion software.

Therefore, If I buy the mid range 2012 Mini and attach an external thunderbolt Flash drive, can I establish a Fusion drive? How?

I want to use the mini to do post processing of photos and Apple indicates that the fusion drive expedites the uploading of photos.

Suggestions?

I would say the answer is a resounding "no". An external SSD isn't the same. We don't know yet what the Fusion Drive is, hardware wise. Is it an SSD chip like on the MacBook's along with a traditional HD, and Mountain Lion manages to use them as one, or is a souped up Seagate Momentus XT style hybrid? Or is it a 2.5" SSD in one bay and a traditional HD in the other? (I doubt that)

And I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Fusion Drive will work under Lion. It's being introduced under Mountain Lion so it's a good bet that previous versions of the OS will never get an update to run the Fusion Drive correctly.

I did order a mac mini today with the Fusion Drive, I'll crack it open once it arrives and see what exactly it is, although I'm sure we'll see iFixit or other websites posting pics of the inside of the new mini with Fusion Drive soon.

----------

The refurb store was selling the mid-level 2011 for $550 earlier today... but I hesitated and lost it.

I'm sure that will be back in stock in the next few days if that's really the one you prefer. The Apple refurbs are restocked daily, most of the time I see it happen late at night.

 

[jshbckr]

I'm sure that will be back in stock in the next few days if that's really the one you prefer. The Apple refurbs are restocked daily, most of the time I see it happen late at night.

Hmm, thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye out but I'm still unsure of what to get. According to most people, the HD4000 is on par with the old dedicated GPU... so the more efficient Ivy Bridge, faster RAM, and USB 3 might be worth just buying the new one...

 

[cocacolakid]

Here's a link to another test of gaming and 3d use on HD 4000, very favorable:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000.69168.0.html

 

[Wicked1]

The Base Mini from 2011 is just fine for everyday use with 8GB ram, I have one and it works fine for most tasks, hardly ever game anymore.

 

[Claustin]

I've got a mid-level 2011 that I upgraded with a 60GB SSD for boot drive and a 1TB drive for the user's home folder I'd like to sell if anybody's interested. I'll probably throw it up on eBay in a few days.

 

[Hitch08]

No Fusion BTO for the server model

Why would Apple not offer the Fusion drive on the Server version? Is the theory likely to be that you can get a 256GB SD in addition to the 1TB second drive?

From my limited knowledge, that won't do the same things that the Fusion drive is designed to do (moving frequently used files and apps).

 

[philipma1957]

I've got a mid-level 2011 that I upgraded with a 60GB SSD for boot drive and a 1TB drive for the user's home folder I'd like to sell if anybody's interested. I'll probably throw it up on eBay in a few days.

doing this in the mini forum is not allowed

 

[hipnetic]

Gross... why would you run Windows 7 MC when there's Plex?

You can't watch/record live TV (including encrypted cable channels) with Plex, or any other Mac solution, for that matter. And no monthly guide fee, either. With Windows 7 Media Center and a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime cablecard tuner, I've got 3 tuners to work with (actually I bought a 2nd one that I haven't hooked up yet, so that will give me 6 tuners). Ceton also makes a 4-tuner card/external box. With both of these solutions, you plug in a multistream cable card from the cable company, and you can get all of the channels you subscribe to.

I use this in conjunction with a couple of XBox 360's in other rooms of my house so that I can watch live TV in those rooms as well, but they're a bit bigger and louder than I wish they were. I'd love it if Apple (or some 3rd party) offered a Mac-based solution where I could watch live/recorded TV via my Apple TV's, but no perfect solution exists. But there are some other solutions which come close, which I've also toyed with. Specifically:

On my main computer that does all the TV recording, I can run Plex server and/or AirVideo server. I can also run a script (forget the name) which will rename my TV shows so that Plex can properly get the metadata for the shows. Then, I can use the Plex client app on my iPhone to play my recorded TV shows with on-the-fly transcoding. There's also an app called CouchPotato where you can get pseudo-live TV watching by recording a show, waiting about 10 minutes, and then you can start watching it, even before it's finished airing. That app (and the server component that it requires) leaves a lot to be desired, so I don't use it, whereas the Plex server/app and AirVideo server/app provide much better PQ.

Another option is to use something like MC-TVConverter which will take your recorded TV shows and convert them (using Handbrake) into .m4v files, and will do all of that in the automatically (either at a scheduled time or as it sees a new show complete its recording). That's good for longer-term archival, but if you just want to watch some of your recent recordings and then delete them, the on-the-fly options (Plex and AirVideo) are better IMO, since they don't burn up your CPU all the time - only when you're watching a particular show.

Anyway, sorry to take this thread off-topic. Bottom line, though, is that I think that the Mac Mini (even the base model) is a very attractive live/recorded TV and movie server using Windows 7 Media Center *and* Plex. The Mini is a great price, IMO, because you can't find anything as capable/quiet/small/low-power (not to mention beautiful) on the Windows side, *BUT* the Windows 7 Media Center software still is head-and-shoulders above any Mac software solution if you want/need to watch encrypted-channel live/recorded TV shows.

 

[sunandsurf]

Waiting for some ebay stores to build a custom mini with SSD!!!
Just like one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-M...7678242?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item27c7e945a2

But with 2012 model =)

Thanks for the link... That's tempting. . The same people will almost certainly offer similar upgrades with the new model; just waiting till they can get their hands on it....

 

[longer.zhou]

I think the fact that we have to have this discussion at all reflects how unimpressive this upgrade is.

If there were no upgrade, the price of the older one wouldn't go down .

 

[virtu]

Thanks for the link... That's tempting. . The same people will almost certainly offer similar upgrades with the new model; just waiting till they can get their hands on it....

Your welcome =)

Maybe Best Buy can do that upgrade if you get from them the SSD and memory. So, if that happen, entry level MAC MINI plus a SSD and 8gb of RAM... Best Buy take my money, please =)

 

[Neodym]

You can't watch/record live TV (including encrypted cable channels) with Plex, or any other Mac solution, for that matter. [...] I'd love it if Apple (or some 3rd party) offered a Mac-based solution where I could watch live/recorded TV via my Apple TV's, but no perfect solution exists.

Ummm - what's wrong with EyeTV? I have EyeTV running on a Mac mini providing Live TV to my iPad / iPhone (running the EyeTV app), which can share to my big screen via AppleTV and Airplay. A bit clumsy perhaps, having to use some kind of "interface device", but apart from that it works flawlessly.

I think with a jailbroken AppleTV (2nd gen - don't know if 3rd gen is broken already) you can even stream directly to it (w/o iPad/iPhone/iPod in the middle).

The EyeTV app is very comfortable to use, offers EPG and also gives access to recordings. Granted - picture quality is not perfect yet, but it's okay already and probably the easiest-to-set-up solution existing (and very Mac-specific, too )

 

[paulrbeers]

Ummm - what's wrong with EyeTV? I have EyeTV running on a Mac mini providing Live TV to my iPad / iPhone (running the EyeTV app), which can share to my big screen via AppleTV and Airplay. A bit clumsy perhaps, having to use some kind of "interface device", but apart from that it works flawlessly.

I think with a jailbroken AppleTV (2nd gen - don't know if 3rd gen is broken already) you can even stream directly to it (w/o iPad/iPhone/iPod in the middle).

The EyeTV app is very comfortable to use, offers EPG and also gives access to recordings. Granted - picture quality is not perfect yet, but it's okay already and probably the easiest-to-set-up solution existing (and very Mac-specific, too )

Agreed. I am making the switch to EyeTV since my previously favorite DVR software (sagetv) was bought by google over a year ago and has basically stopped supporting it. It's a little clumsy to play back on an iPad and then send it to my AppleTV, but it works. In a lot of ways it's nicer to see the EPG on the iPad and just touch to play rather than having to use a remote....

 

[rand0m3r]

I'm sure that will be back in stock in the next few days if that's really the one you prefer. The Apple refurbs are restocked daily, most of the time I see it happen late at night.

I haven't seen the mac mini stocked in the last couple days, do you think this one is gone for good or is there a small likelihood someone will return theirs and it'll end up on the refurb store?

 

[cocacolakid]

I haven't seen the mac mini stocked in the last couple days, do you think this one is gone for good or is there a small likelihood someone will return theirs and it'll end up on the refurb store?

They'll be back. It was in stock two days ago. They'll keep refurbing 2011 mini's for a while.

 

[rand0m3r]

They'll be back. It was in stock two days ago. They'll keep refurbing 2011 mini's for a while.

OK, thanks. just noticed the store restocked a couple mini's, but it was the entry-level and server version. i shall keep checking.

 

[hipnetic]

Ummm - what's wrong with EyeTV?

Last I checked, it didn't support cablecard tuners, which means that all you can tune in is OTA channels or non-encrypted cable channels (and the latter are quickly disappearing). Whereas with my solution, I can tune in every channel I pay for with my cable subscription (e.g., HGTV, Food network, ESPN, etc.).

 

[kappaknight]

You can't watch/record live TV (including encrypted cable channels) with Plex, or any other Mac solution, for that matter. And no monthly guide fee, either. With Windows 7 Media Center and a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime cablecard tuner, I've got 3 tuners to work with (actually I bought a 2nd one that I haven't hooked up yet, so that will give me 6 tuners). Ceton also makes a 4-tuner card/external box. With both of these solutions, you plug in a multistream cable card from the cable company, and you can get all of the channels you subscribe to.

I use this in conjunction with a couple of XBox 360's in other rooms of my house so that I can watch live TV in those rooms as well, but they're a bit bigger and louder than I wish they were. I'd love it if Apple (or some 3rd party) offered a Mac-based solution where I could watch live/recorded TV via my Apple TV's, but no perfect solution exists. But there are some other solutions which come close, which I've also toyed with. Specifically:

On my main computer that does all the TV recording, I can run Plex server and/or AirVideo server. I can also run a script (forget the name) which will rename my TV shows so that Plex can properly get the metadata for the shows. Then, I can use the Plex client app on my iPhone to play my recorded TV shows with on-the-fly transcoding. There's also an app called CouchPotato where you can get pseudo-live TV watching by recording a show, waiting about 10 minutes, and then you can start watching it, even before it's finished airing. That app (and the server component that it requires) leaves a lot to be desired, so I don't use it, whereas the Plex server/app and AirVideo server/app provide much better PQ.

Another option is to use something like MC-TVConverter which will take your recorded TV shows and convert them (using Handbrake) into .m4v files, and will do all of that in the automatically (either at a scheduled time or as it sees a new show complete its recording). That's good for longer-term archival, but if you just want to watch some of your recent recordings and then delete them, the on-the-fly options (Plex and AirVideo) are better IMO, since they don't burn up your CPU all the time - only when you're watching a particular show.

Anyway, sorry to take this thread off-topic. Bottom line, though, is that I think that the Mac Mini (even the base model) is a very attractive live/recorded TV and movie server using Windows 7 Media Center *and* Plex. The Mini is a great price, IMO, because you can't find anything as capable/quiet/small/low-power (not to mention beautiful) on the Windows side, *BUT* the Windows 7 Media Center software still is head-and-shoulders above any Mac software solution if you want/need to watch encrypted-channel live/recorded TV shows.

It sounds like you may be making this too hard. If you watch live sports, then I agree you need all of that; though you can find sport streams on Justin.tv at times.

As for everything else, you can get the shows from the web w/o recording off of live TV and transcribing it yourself. The best part is you don't even have to fast forward through the recorded commercials because there aren't any.

 

[Neodym]

Last I checked, it didn't support cablecard tuners

I don't know whether DVB-C is similar to what you call a cablecard tuner, but for encrypted cable TV in Europe you can get the Terratec H7 which is a cable tuner with a slot for a CI module taking the subscription card. And this tuner is officially supported by Elgato - in fact they are selling this device in their very own Elgato flavor.

Separate USB-CI modules have also been reported to work with encrypted channels when connected to a Mac running EyeTV.

 

[dmk1974]

Uh, can this thread get back on track a bit instead of being a streaming TV discussion? Thanks!

 

[calvol]

You can't watch/record live TV (including encrypted cable channels) with Plex, or any other Mac solution, for that matter. And no monthly guide fee, either. With Windows 7 Media Center and a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime cablecard tuner, I've got 3 tuners to work with (actually I bought a 2nd one that I haven't hooked up yet, so that will give me 6 tuners). Ceton also makes a 4-tuner card/external box. With both of these solutions, you plug in a multistream cable card from the cable company, and you can get all of the channels you subscribe to.

Good stuff kappaknight!

 

[NocturnalEdit]

Mid-Tier 2012 Mini blows away Mid-Tier 2011 mini...

That's what you should be comparing...

The $799 2012 Mini with QUAD CORE is gonna run circles around last years mini...

 

[Gizmotoy]

That's what you should be comparing...

The $799 2012 Mini with QUAD CORE is gonna run circles around last years mini...

But why? The 2011 mid level can be had for between $600 and $700 new, and Apple appears to be reselling them at $550 refurbished. It also has processor similarities with the base 2012.

Just being a Quad doesn't mean a whole lot, either. I have the 2011 i7 quad and am trying to figure out if I should swap to the 2011 mid or the 2012 base. HTPC use doesn't see much benefit from quad cores, and can be a detriment if you need to sacrifice clock speed for it. I'm having trouble with the 2GHz quad that people with the cheaper 2.5GHz dual don't have.