Why AppleTV is underestimated and will take off

[Blue Velvet]

BBC & Channel 4 have also signed up for Windows Media distribution so I can't see there being any UK TV content available through iTunes.

At least the BBC are bound by their charter and will have to pursue openly-accessible means in the long run; their ventures into YouTube show some of their intentions. Channel 4 also has a charter, but I'm not sure what requirements are laid upon them in this regard... Channel 4 isn't much of a producer these days, anyway, preferring to rely on independent producers or commissioning where necessary.

What Apple need to do is to pursue partnerships where they might not necessarily have the upper hand... something which I understand they're not inclined to do, which is shortsighted in my view. Still, what do I know?

 

[yagran]

i want tv sows through itunes in the uk! or movies atleast. then i will buy an tv, promise. ARE YOU LISTENING APPLE?!

 

[Mord]

If it plays divx then I could be sold, but aparently it won't so I'm not.

I have too many computers with all types of media on them, if I could consolidate it all into itunes and then consolidate all of that over the network to an tv then it'd be fab, but it's not looking like I'll be able to.

 

[Krevnik]

I disagree, one the MP3 market was just starting when Apple got into it and there was nothing to compete with mp3's in portability.

The Tv media business is way different, 1st we are in a home setting and portability doesnt reallyfactor in.

2nd People have had DVDs for years along with Cable,Satellites & etc.

3rd PCs have had something thats very scarce in Apples world and thats PVRs. I have been using a PVR for years in my Dell and though buying a movie over the net is nice its just not needed because with a PVR you can record any movie now and year ago with cable. Plus I still like the idea of a hard copy, a booklet and trinkets with the movie. I dont see Apple TV as all that and you still cant even hook it up to your cable. It wont being doing all that for Apple because Apple has for years DISSED 2 Huge segments in Media. One the TV watcher and the other the Gamer. Apple TV isnt going to be Pods in any fashion in my view. Way to late to this party.

I disagree, they are actually early to a party about to start. In the tech industry, even in the cable companies... IPTV is being heavily researched. All your TV content, distributed over IP instead of antiquated VHF/UHF signals (for digital cable, anyways, basic cable will likely remain as-is for some time to come). Companies like Comcast would only need to distribute new STBs, and they can reclaim chunks of bandwidth currently devoted to OnDemand and PPV channels. IPTV has a fairly fixed bandwidth requirement, regardless of the channel count, unlike current solutions.

And in this new technology, you have no need for the DVR as we know it today. The Apple TV hardware, as it is now, could provide IPTV if Apple chooses, including DVR capability.

Apple is trying to get in on the ground floor by entering mindshare of potential customers now, so they can wedge themselves in as a competitor when IPTV starts to arrive.

 

[nagromme]

Apple is trying to get in on the ground floor by entering mindshare of potential customers now, so they can wedge themselves in as a competitor when IPTV starts to arrive.

AppleTV (first out now) : Apple :: Prius (first out in the 90s) : Toyota?

 

[Diatribe]

If Apple really lowered the price by $50 as suggested by the CompUSA thread and offered HD content, I see this thing flying off the shelves.

 

[GFLPraxis]

This is a very good question--and there may be some future answer we have not yet seen. Right now, the only answers are "photo slideshows" and "sharper menu text."

As for the "only" part, that does seem odd since cost for S-video would have been small. Maybe Apple doesn't care AS much about the people without component, but you think they'd still care some. It would be nice if the final product has some adapter in the box, but I doubt it.

Why cut out a market segment for absolutely no benefit? Adding S-video wouldn't make the menu text less sharp for HDTV owners.
I know, it's not a question anyone here can answer. I just find it silly.

 

[GFLPraxis]

If it plays divx then I could be sold, but aparently it won't so I'm not.

Replace DivX with Ogg Vorbis and change the subject to iPod.
The normal consumer has never seen a DivX file; only us internet nerds have. Especially people who download illegal torrents; and Apple doesn't want to encourage that.

 

[Krevnik]

AppleTV (first out now) : Apple :: Prius (first out in the 90s) : Toyota?

Not quite the best analogy, but pretty close. Toyota was already a contender in cars before hybrid technology started to materialize into something that could be sold. Here, Apple and Microsoft are both new contenders to the content distribution market... and Microsoft already sees the 360 as a vehicle for IPTV on their terms. I wouldn't be surprised if the Apple TV is an IPTV vehicle for Apple, just that they don't want to sell it based on what it eventually might, possibly, maybe do.

 

[Diode]

I disagree, they are actually early to a party about to start. In the tech industry, even in the cable companies... IPTV is being heavily researched. All your TV content, distributed over IP instead of antiquated VHF/UHF signals (for digital cable, anyways, basic cable will likely remain as-is for some time to come). Companies like Comcast would only need to distribute new STBs, and they can reclaim chunks of bandwidth currently devoted to OnDemand and PPV channels. IPTV has a fairly fixed bandwidth requirement, regardless of the channel count, unlike current solutions.

And in this new technology, you have no need for the DVR as we know it today. The Apple TV hardware, as it is now, could provide IPTV if Apple chooses, including DVR capability.

Apple is trying to get in on the ground floor by entering mindshare of potential customers now, so they can wedge themselves in as a competitor when IPTV starts to arrive.

You also got to remember that AppleTV is essentially running a dumbed down copy of OSX on a scaled down computer (well as the rumors claim). If IPTV takes off all apple would need to do is push a update to allow that sort of content. Some very cool posibility's await this device - but Apple doesn't want to say it will do something when the industry behind it never takes off.

Just like anything apple, the speculation kills us all . I for one see the delay as Apple trying to work last minute talks with the movie industry about releasing content to itunes.

 

[Krevnik]

You also got to remember that AppleTV is essentially running a dumbed down copy of OSX on a scaled down computer (well as the rumors claim). If IPTV takes off all apple would need to do is push a update to allow that sort of content. Some very cool posibility's await this device - but Apple doesn't want to say it will do something when the industry behind it never takes off.

Which is why I said the hardware is ready. The catch is that we don't know that the Apple TV runs a Darwin OS on it, so while the firmware is upgradable, I won't make a comment on what it runs, because it may or may not be Darwin. I don't see evidence either way.

Just like anything apple, the speculation kills us all . I for one see the delay as Apple trying to work last minute talks with the movie industry about releasing content to itunes.

I personally hope not. Thanks to Handbrake, and a few other tools, I am just shy of the 100 movie mark in my iTunes library (with only 4 actually purchased via iTunes, the rest are from my personal DVD collection). I even am importing HD content myself which meets the specs we know so far. But I have held off going whole hog on HD until I know what will actually play.

I actually hope the delay is for bug fixes. I actually just opened a bug around Feb 20th on iTunes, because it cannot stream movie files larger than 2GB, making HD content and long content (LotR Extended Editions) unusable from iTunes on my laptop. And Quicktime being unable to flatten MP4 files bigger than 4GB is frustrating as well when it comes to HD as it forces me to use bitrates lower than I would like on HD content.

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

-nateDEEZY

According to ElGato, you can 'push a button' to put recordings to iTunes for service.

Linkypoo

I think this is a big deal! I like it! I have been holding off appletv because I was not sure how it would "compete" without a DVR. I've been wanting a DVR. A question though... why doesn't apple own elgato by now?

Also, (someone above said something similar) maybe the delay in shipping is to address both bugs as well as to add features?

 

[Diode]

As for the "only" part, that does seem odd since cost for S-video would have been small. Maybe Apple doesn't care AS much about the people without component, but you think they'd still care some.

I see this more with what apple did with the original imac. People groaned about it only having USB connections and they would have to replace all their perephrials. Apple simply anticipated that most people will be using usb in the near future.

They are anticipating more people will have HDTV's. The more they simplify the less they have to worry about things going wrong / not working. Apple likes taking the KISS aproach and doing a few things very well rather then having a do everything, connect with everything device.

They also like chosing the formats for their consumers but thats a whole different thread

 

[roland.g]

AppleTV does NOT play video the way most people get it: on DVD or recorded from antenna/cable. It ONLY plays video from iTMS--or conversions that most people don't have the time or know-how to bother with. And iTMS video/TV/movies are much less widely-used (and have FAR less selection) than iTMS music.

Take away iTMS and the iPod is still a great device. Take away iTMS--and therefore most video--and AppleTV is nice for showing photos and playing music--which are nice, but people do both by many other means already. (In fact, an iPod can already do both AND show movies on TV. It lacks an on-screen menu, but it has an "on-controller" menu.)

I have over 7300 items in my iTunes librabry. Almost all of that is music. Of that music most of it came from CD. Maybe 100-150 iTMS songs. I only have 5 or 6 music videos. And less than 10 tv shows/shorts, all of which were freebies. I have yet to purchase a movies. But I have every movie I have made in iMovie in my library to view through tv. And that is something that a lot of people can and will do.

 

[ijimk]

As for myself I do plan on getting one of these. As far as the DVR is concerned I would expect some sort of Mod/hack to enable this soon after the product is released.

This device will fit perfect in my living room as I dont have cable and have alot of my movies backed up into itunes.

 

[nagromme]

I have over 7300 items in my iTunes librabry. Almost all of that is music. Of that music most of it came from CD. Maybe 100-150 iTMS songs. I only have 5 or 6 music videos. And less than 10 tv shows/shorts, all of which were freebies. I have yet to purchase a movies. But I have every movie I have made in iMovie in my library to view through tv. And that is something that a lot of people can and will do.

Home movies are a great use of AppleTV. But people who have a lot of those--and who share them often enough to have the desire to beam them to TV--are a small niche. So this usage doesn't make AppleTV cross over into mainstream appeal the way the iPod has.

Note that in the iTunes update thread, it seems to be confirmed that AppleTV will have games. (And speculation, therefore, that some kind of USB controller may be an option?)

And THERE's a subject where I will defend AppleTV's broad appeal. People will say AppleTV lacks the horsepower or technical specs of a PS3 or Wii--but this isn't for Halo 2. It's games as "an extra," the way they are on iPod. Casual games, I expect, which are a HUGE market--even if one sneered at by the smaller market of hardcore "gamers." (AppleTV is of course not a game machine for hardcore gamers.)

Expect hardcore gamers to put down AppleTV games. They probably put down Bejeweled too. Won't stop the games from selling though...

 

[whooleytoo]

I do agree; a one touch DVD rip would be a killer feature in iTunes but I don't think the industry will allow it.

What about 'one touch DVD rip with DRM'?

i.e. iTunes rips the DVD and encodes it with the user's Fairplay user ID such that it's subject to similar usage restrictions as that bought through iTMS.

 

[nagromme]

What about 'one touch DVD rip with DRM'?

i.e. iTunes rips the DVD and encodes it with the user's Fairplay user ID such that it's subject to similar usage restrictions as that bought through iTMS.

Sounds doable--iTunes already adds the DRM after the download has arrived.

At the very least--later when the selection of iTunes movie is huge--maybe allow people to download the iTMS version of a movie for a .99 cents or free, upon inserting the real movie disc. An indirect kind of "rip."

But I still think the industry wouldn't cooperate

I own almost no DVDs (I'd rather rent most movies once or twice) but there are some TV series I plan to own some day (Twin Peaks, Buffy/Angel, Firefly, the new Galactica, maybe some BBC stuff like Peepshow and One Foot In The Grave). When I do, having them in an iPhone-ready iTunes style library, ripped from the box sets, would be ideal. The easier the better!

 

[nutmac]

Walk down any street and quiz people about DIVX and record how many people know what it is. Then ask those same people if they have heard of a mp3. I bet you will be surprised; I am talking in terms of the mass population.

These people may not know what DiVX is, but many are watching them anyway. Probably more so than H.264. Do people know what CDMA and GSM mean? But mass population carries cell phone anyway.

The normal consumer has never seen a DivX file; only us internet nerds have. Especially people who download illegal torrents; and Apple doesn't want to encourage that.

You'd be surprised how prevalent DiVX is. If you recall, MP3 took up largely through illegal music sharing (Napster). Illegal video sharing is not as popular as music was (largely due to file size), but it is more popular than most people think. DiVX is particularly popular among foreigners (in the US), as it is one of the most popular methods of watching international programmings.

One may argue why include something (DiVX/XViD) that promotes illegal video sharing? Because DiVX is the reality.

 

[Diatribe]

I don't think this comes really down down DivX or DVR functionality.
This comes all down to content. If Apple offered more movies at the right prices and more importantly increases the quality of the content by upping resolution and adding 5.1 audio, I think a lot more people would buy things at the iTS, which in return would make a lot more people interested in apple tv.

 

[dextertangocci]

I would love to get one, but I first need to know if it will work with my 5 year old Sony tv, you know, those old non LCD or Plasma tv's? It has about 7 sets of those red, yellow and white ports, can I use it with that?

Sorry, I don't know much about tv's

 

[patrick0brien]

I would love to get one, but I first need to know if it will work with my 5 year old Sony tv, you know, those old non LCD or Plasma tv's? It has about 7 sets of those red, yellow and white ports, can I use it with that?

Sorry, I don't know much about tv's

-dextertangocci

I hate to say it, but probably not.

First, HDMI is relatively new, and we can pretty much throw out this as an option for you right now.

Look at the ports of the TV, you should see something for video that is actuall three RCA conectors colored Red, Green and Blue and labeled the funky: Y'PbPr.

But you also need to be Hi-Def, of have a converter.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I would love to get one, but I first need to know if it will work with my 5 year old Sony tv, you know, those old non LCD or Plasma tv's? It has about 7 sets of those red, yellow and white ports, can I use it with that?

Sorry, I don't know much about tv's

It needs the one with the five colored ports (red, green, blue, red, and white). That's called Component.

I'm in the same boat; I have no component inputs.

 

[VespR]

These people may not know what DiVX is, but many are watching them anyway. Probably more so than H.264. Do people know what CDMA and GSM mean? But mass population carries cell phone anyway.



You'd be surprised how prevalent DiVX is. If you recall, MP3 took up largely through illegal music sharing (Napster). Illegal video sharing is not as popular as music was (largely due to file size), but it is more popular than most people think. DiVX is particularly popular among foreigners (in the US), as it is one of the most popular methods of watching international programmings.

One may argue why include something (DiVX/XViD) that promotes illegal video sharing? Because DiVX is the reality.

I'm having the same conversation with somebody on AppleInsider. DivX is massive. Perhaps not so in the states, but certainly on a worldwide appeal. Why do all DVD players these days come with a DivX sticker on the front? Even Sony support it. Apple has shot themselves in the foot with this and it's cost them my £200.

 

[Krevnik]

I'm having the same conversation with somebody on AppleInsider. DivX is massive. Perhaps not so in the states, but certainly on a worldwide appeal. Why do all DVD players these days come with a DivX sticker on the front? Even Sony support it. Apple has shot themselves in the foot with this and it's cost them my £200.

The funny thing about this is that DivX and XviD are both implementations of MPEG-4 (oddly enough). The only thing that makes Apple incompatible with the files are the odd use of AVI (which breaks the AVI spec) for the most part.

Something has to eventually replace the AVI part of the equation, if digital media is to take off in the mainstream like MP3s. ID3 tags already working with MP4 files (something you can't do with AVI) and MKV files are a start. I personally dislike the idea of having untagged movies, much like my dislike for untagged MP3s.