Why are so many people using out of date Macbooks?

[rin67630]

That's what I love about Macs, it last long unlike pcs which I have to replace after a few years because it become slow and the battery don't last.

Really unlike PCs?
I can't find any difference in battery life and slowness.

IMHO Apple devices's hardware may last somewhat longer because they usually were using cutting edge hardware, which remain in par a year or two longer.
On the other side, the OS gets obsolete faster.
Fortunately we have OCLP, which demonstrates the Apple's restrictions are arbitrary.

 

[throAU]

You can do much more than light duty stuff with it.

Nah, not really.

Well, I mean you could if you were a masochist, but I have seen my 14" MBP struggle very occasionally with the workload I'm throwing at on a regular basis.

The 13" has aged gracefully, but the modern apps I run either don't run on it at all (some require apple silicon or more recent macOS now) or run pretty badly due to the dual core with only 8 GB of RAM and ancient intel iGPU. The box is 9 years old this year. It's had a good run but...

 

[rin67630]

Well, I mean you could if you were a masochist, but I have seen my 14" MBP struggle very occasionally with the workload I'm throwing at on a regular basis.

Please don't project your bad experience on others.
My 15" MBP from 2014 is perfectly snappy and I use it pretty heavily for programming, editing presentations, image processing, and occasionally for video editing (which it does amazingly fast on its nVidia graphic chip)
In fact, I am knowing how to use it.

 

[Lakris]

Really unlike PCs?
I can't find any difference in battery life and slowness.

IMHO Apple devices's hardware may last somewhat longer because they usually were using cutting edge hardware, which remain in par a year or two longer.
On the other side, the OS gets obsolete faster.
Fortunately we have OCLP, which demonstrates the Apple's restrictions are arbitrary.

In my experience, yes. It's possible pc's have gotten better since I had my last pc, but this is my point of view.

 

[throAU]

Please don't project your bad experience on others.
My 15" MBP from 2014 is perfectly snappy and I use it pretty heavily for programming, editing presentations, image processing, and occasionally for video editing (which it does amazingly fast on its nVidia graphic chip)
In fact, I am knowing how to use it.

If it works for you great. The 13" machines from that era have half the core count, lower power binned cores (so lower clocks) and no discrete GPU.

They were fine machines in the mid 201Xs but time and software has moved on.

Like I said, a bunch of apps I rely on heavily in 2024 are not even available for the older versions of macOS and the performance on the newer apple silicon machine I've owned for the past 3 years as well is just so much faster its beyond a joke when going back to the old 13".

I use these machines for work, time spent waiting around for things is an active productivity impediment. I'm not just typing text into a code editor and then grabbing a coffee to wait for it to compile...

 

[throAU]

Really unlike PCs?
I can't find any difference in battery life and slowness.

IMHO Apple devices's hardware may last somewhat longer because they usually were using cutting edge hardware, which remain in par a year or two longer.
On the other side, the OS gets obsolete faster.
Fortunately we have OCLP, which demonstrates the Apple's restrictions are arbitrary.

Both agree and disagree. Its not just OS performance and internal hardware spec though.

PC hardware is a race to the bottom. Sure the internal spec may be OK, but the peripherals, user input devices, etc. are trash. My 9 year old 13" MacBook Pro looks and feels in better condition than the 12-18 month old PCs we have come back into the office. So does my no longer working properly 2011 MacBook Pro for that matter.

The MacBook metal enclosure, high quality keyboard, trackpad and screen generally look good (and feel nice to use) long after the PCs we buy have started showing severe signs of wear to keyboard/trackpad and enclosure and basically look like busted old piles of junk.

 

[hajime]

It is a way to feel connected to our beloved Steve.

 

[madrich]

I like and love the backlight Apple 

 

[rin67630]

PC hardware is a race to the bottom. Sure the internal spec may be OK, but the peripherals, user input devices, etc. are trash.

Don't generalize. You have got cheap and professional PCs.
Beside that, the keyboard of Macbooks wasn't exactly a reference of quality in the past.

 

[rin67630]

I use these machines for work, time spent waiting around for things is an active productivity impediment. I'm not just typing text into a code editor and then grabbing a coffee to wait for it to compile...

Believe it or not, I never have to wait for my 2015 MBP to finish. A minute is not worth mentioning. I use that minute to move away from my chair, and do something for my health. Good investment !

 

[za9ra22]

They were fine machines in the mid 201Xs but time and software has moved on.

Yes, and no.

Time has moved on, but software and the computers it runs on are - faults notwithstanding - exactly as usable now as they were then. They're not living creatures and thus decline with age. They remain exactly the same.

So yes, the things a computer can do today may have improved - though outside internet related activity, probably not much - and in absolute terms performance continues to improve, but what people generally do with their computers doesn't change much.

That means that something like, for example, a 2014 MBP with the software bought and installed on it when it was new and for a couple of years or so at least, will be exactly as useful as it was then, doing exactly what it could do then. If the use case hasn't changed, the usability hasn't either.

And just for grins, I did an experiment, comparing a 2023 Windows PC, and a 1992 Mac Classic II. The Windows system is 8Gb RAM, 256Gb SSD, and clocked at a miserly 2.2GHz. The Mac has 10Mb RAM, a 2Gb SD card for storage, and runs at 16MHz.

An easy win for the Windows box, obviously.... except not. The Windows system and the Mac take almost exactly the same time to boot up, the Mac is slightly faster opening Word (admittedly, v5.1 rather than 2021, but it's period correct) and actually does a spellcheck on a 20-page document slightly faster too.

The point being, that a 32 year-old Mac is actually slightly faster and just as usable as a modern PC if what you want it to do is write a document. And while you would justifiably point out that this is a very basic use of a computer, and the Mac can't really do anything on the internet at all, or even get email, that doesn't detract from what it can still do just as well as it ever could, for those who want to do exactly that. And of course given entire businesses and productive work was done then on systems just the same, including the design, typesetting and production of newspapers and magazines for example, these were not just toys.

What is happening in modern computing, is that as system performance improves, so software grows to swallow up that performance and the resources the system has. It doesn't mean it is actually better.

 

[rin67630]

The point being, that a 32 year-old Mac is actually slightly faster and just as usable as a modern PC

It did not spend 99% of it's resources phoning to 7340683 advertising agencies what you are currently doing or defending istself against the attcks of 862469 different malwares...

 

[za9ra22]

It did not spend 99% of it's resources phoning to 7340683 advertising agencies what you are currently doing or defending istself against the attcks of 862469 different malwares...

True. Admittedly, the 2023 PC v 1992 Mac comparison was heavily stacked in favor of the Mac because it has no external connections and no need for processor-hungry security software. It's an unfair comparison where I was certain to need a much faster PC to keep up.

 

[throAU]

So yes, the things a computer can do today may have improved - though outside internet related activity, probably not much - and in absolute terms performance continues to improve, but what people generally do with their computers doesn't change much.

I'm aware of how computers have progressed, if I wanted to keep using old machines, I'd be still using my amiga 500.

progress is a thing, and 9 years is a long time.

things do change a heap. video conferencing is much more common and the old machines do not have hardware support for the modern codecs, which means the cpu gets smashed, the fan runs hard, etc.

modern hardware is silent doing the same sorts of things that had my 2015 MacBook Pro fans screaming, even pre covid.

 

[za9ra22]

I'm aware of how computers have progressed, if I wanted to keep using old machines, I'd be still using my amiga 500.

progress is a thing, and 9 years is a long time.

things do change a heap. video conferencing is much more common and the old machines do not have hardware support for the modern codecs, which means the cpu gets smashed, the fan runs hard, etc.

modern hardware is silent doing the same sorts of things that had my 2015 MacBook Pro fans screaming, even pre covid.

No dispute from me regarding any of your points, though my point was not intended to address how systems use has expanded, merely how use cases which have not changed (and most have not) are not better supported by newer systems, which are actually not particularly (or at all) performatively better.

Your point is absolutely correct, that by and large as system performance has improved, it has facilitated a wider range of services, albeit largely communications-related. My point reflects on the fact that if the user doesn't need these services, old computers even back to 30 or so years old, can still be viable and 'as good'. Certainly 'as good' as they ever were, which given their uses then was quite significant.

Incidentally, Amiga 500.... very cool!!

 

[rin67630]

progress is a thing, and 9 years is a long time.

It is just silly to tell someone, who is happy and perfectly productive with his computer that he should buy another one.
(off-voice: and you are stupid not doing so !)
Unrequested advice ―especially to buy someting― isn't nice at all.
I find sometimes myself telling persons, who keep struggling with pre-2012 iMacs and their dying graphics, that they were really better off buying a less problematic hardware. It is well meant, but rarely receives a positive response.

 

[rin67630]

video conferencing is much more common and the old machines do not have hardware support for the modern codecs, which means the cpu gets smashed, the fan runs hard,

Really? I should have noticed that, why didn't I?
I am sometimes using my MAB2013 with really modestly performant hadware on travel and am doing 1-2 Hour long web-telcos with a dozen of parties. I hear slightly the fan running, which is else silent. But definitvely not running "hard".

 

[throAU]

Really? I should have noticed that, why didn't I?
I am sometimes using my MAB2013 with really modestly performant hadware on travel and am doing 1-2 Hour long web-telcos with a dozen of parties. I hear slightly the fan running, which is else silent. But definitvely not running "hard".

If its a 15" model, the GPU is probably doing the heavy lifting, and it has a better cooling system.


Seriously, fire up zoom/teams on an older 13" intel machine and listen to the fans scream. Especially if you're plugged into an external monitor.

It was so bad I basically just used Zoom and teams on my older iPad Pro (whilst working on the MacBook) as it ran those apps faster and silently. With a better webcam, etc.

I don't need to do that any more, the mbp14 is silent like the iPad doing those things (and almost everything else outside of gaming).

 

[barracuda156]

I walk the streets and see them in cafe's and the parks. I see so many people with MacBooks from 2012 that have the light in the back with a out of day OS yet they are using an iPhone 14 or newer. I just don't understand why they don't at least upgrade to a M1 MacBook Air for $800. If they can afford a new iPhone they can afford to update there out of date, insecure laptop.

Is this even a serious question?

1. Value is subjective.
2. Unless one uses web media, even PowerBooks from 2005 are perfectly fine for many tasks.
3. Phones are typically used in a way they deteriorate faster. Batteries die, and no one uses a phone exclusively plugged in into a charger. With laptop – easily.
4. Better camera in a phone makes a difference. Laptops did not improve much since 2012, assuming speed is not something critical.
5. You can run Catalina on 2012 hardware, what is so presumably insecure about it? Given what a disaster were systems starting with Big Sur, it is a sound choice. Moreover, you in fact can run Sonoma on that hardware as well, with some tweaks.

 

[ojfd]

Seriously, fire up zoom/teams on an older 13" intel machine and listen to the fans scream. Especially if you're plugged into an external monitor.

No screaming fans here. Zoom, 13" MBP 2011, High Sierra. Stays silent when I stream various broadcasters in HD, connected to external 24" TV over HDMI too.
Better disable that damned Spotlight that wants to index every incoming byte

 

[joeblow7777]

If you read and post on Mac Rumors you are likely more of a tech enthusiast than 90% of the general population. For most people, a computer is simply a tool. If it still works, why replace it? These days most people spend more time using their phone, and use it for more tasks than their laptops, and phones are still advancing more quickly than computers from the average person's perspective. That's why people upgrade them more frequently.

 

[rin67630]

No screaming fans here. Zoom, 13" MBP 2011, High Sierra. Stays silent when I stream various broadcasters in HD, connected to external 24" TV over HDMI too.
Better disable that damned Spotlight that wants to index every incoming byte

Full ack ! It's frequently a matter of knowing how to use one's laptop intelligently.

 

[EdwardC]

Don't generalize. You have got cheap and professional PCs.
Beside that, the keyboard of Macbooks wasn't exactly a reference of quality in the past.

Agreed, I have a 2017 MacBook Air which is really nice. For work I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T14 and it's really over built. I think it will last longer than most Macs just because it can be easily upgraded.

 

[za9ra22]

Really? I should have noticed that, why didn't I?
I am sometimes using my MAB2013 with really modestly performant hadware on travel and am doing 1-2 Hour long web-telcos with a dozen of parties. I hear slightly the fan running, which is else silent. But definitvely not running "hard".

It's amusing really when people tell us how much more powerful the new stuff is and what it can do compared to the old. It's as if these older systems are somehow totally useless... which means they must always have been.

Back in 1997 I was the technical/resources manager at my university for a global conference based there using G3 Macs, multiple ISDN lines, CuSeeMe software and Connectix QuickCams to facilitate video conferencing between sites and around 400 participants in the UK, US, Japan, Australia and Europe.

Not much under the sun is as new as some seem to think. What technology has done is to make this kind of use much easier and accessible, but before that, human ingenuity filled in a lot of the gaps.

 

[bobjonesco]

Just saw a couple of peasants working on their ancient M2 Air. Losers.