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Why are you NOT buying a nMP?

A

avemestr

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 14, 2012
177
23
So, with a thread on reasons to buy a nMP, I'd try to be the contrarian.

Reasons I'm not buying an nMP:

1) I bought a 4,1 in October 2012 (remember, that's when a new MP was just around the corner, haha, the good old days). Upgraded it with a W3680. It has a higher Geekbench score than the new low-end nMP - and set me back about half of what the nMP cost.

2) Let others burn their fingers first. The significant departure HW-wise might result in unforeseen issues.

3) The new GPUs are marketed as the best invention since sliced bread, but how well does that translate into real-life performance? Which apps will be accelerated and to what degree? Until these questions are answered, the possibility of choosing freely between GTXs, RADEONs, Titans etc. is nice to have.

4) I love the aesthetics of a closed box. I don't have any external drives connected to my current MP - instead I gradually expands the SSD and HDDs inside. I like the idea of expansion being cheap and gradual instead of big bang at purchase (or expensive, at least where I live) Apple "service" replacement of internal storage. You might call me "non-pro" since I don't have a storage array connected to the machine, but I prefer to have my long-term data on a NAS instead. With a nMP I'd be forced to have a storage array and PSU attached on the desk - and so far everything Thunderbolt just seems expensive.

5) The performance of the nMP seems under-whelming to say the least. The top-of-the-line nMP beats the 2012 with only about 18% (29721 vs 25208) in raw processing power. Remember when we laughed at the 2012 MP being "2010 tech"? Well, then the nMP seems only able to beat 2-4 year old tech by 18%. Comic. We cannot blame Intel alone - Apple could have made DP an option, as it has for many years. It seems the CPU Apple use (E5-2697) can be used in a DP configuration, which could result in a Geekbench score above 43000.


So, if you have money to burn (even if you're a pro and can deduct the expense from your taxes the nMP still costs money) the nMP might be the best thing since sliced bread. If you have a very old MP or if you just want the latest and greatest, the nMP is a great buy.

Personally, I'll probably wait till 2015 or 2016, and might at that time buy a top-of-the-line 2012 MP on the cheap - or a nMP when it has proven it's worth.
 
Not buying one because my MP does the job and should be able to for at least 3 more years.

By then there might be a whole new MP design. If we extrapolate, it will be about the size of a soda can, it will have 4 GPUs but no CPU, 1 memory slot, a 150W power supply, and about 32 USB4 and Thunderbolt3 ports. And if it doesn't suit me, I'll be told that's what a Real Pro™ needs and that I'm not forward thinking enough.
 
Sigh,

I'm not buying it because I cannot afford it, and I really don't need it. True it would be cool to have, but my rMBP is more then enough for my needs, on top of that I cannot justify such a huge expense.
 
I was dead set on getting one but as time goes by I really don't think I need it and probably would do just fine with an iMac .. even though I have 30in monitors that I love .. guess I could sell them:(
 
For me it's pretty simple. As a 3D artist, the applications I need don't use OpenCL. The ones that do use GPU processing, are CUDA only. So, until there is an NVIDIA option, or 3D apps start using OpenCL, the AMD graphics of the nMP offers little value over my existing setup. And since much of my CPU work is multi-threaded, I would need to buy the most expensive 12-core nMP to see any improvement in render times.

I don't dislike the nMP, it simply doesn't make practical sense to upgrade to it at this point in time.
 
I need CPU cores rather than high-end graphics.

So after happily using Mac Pros for many years, I've asked my employer for a workstation running linux. Dual 8-core Intel® Xeon® Processors E5-2650 v2 and a single AMD FirePro V3900. About $4800.
 
avemestr said:
5) The performance of the nMP seems under-whelming to say the least. The top-of-the-line nMP beats the 2012 with only about 18% (29721 vs 25208) in raw processing power. Remember when we laughed at the 2012 MP being "2010 tech"? Well, then the nMP seems only able to beat 2-4 year old tech by 18%. Comic. We cannot blame Intel alone - Apple could have made DP an option, as it has for many years. It seems the CPU Apple use (E5-2697) can be used in a DP configuration, which could result in a Geekbench score above 43000.
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to bet that all of that speed increase is due to the faster ram.
To be fair Geekbench and other synthetic benchmarks aren't very representative. They always tend to weight some subsystems over others in their coring methods.
But the nMP should clobber the old one. Faster CPU, faster ram buss, faster drive buss. Though of course it has less memory busses than a dual processor Mac, and it has less drive interfaces as well.
It certainly is criminal how it just barely eclipses it's older brother.
However I am in the queue for the nMP simply because I need a bigger Mac than my Macbook Pro. Though I am tempted to go for the iMac instead. It would only be sorta faster than my Macbook, the nMP would be much faster.
 
I would love to have one, but that is just my lust talking. I have a 3,1 quad, that I just upgraded with another quad chip and a SSD. I use it to manage an extensive video and music library, as well as editing pictures. I have two eSATA external drive case having four bays each, so I would have to find an inexpensive solution to add them to a nMP, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Just like your brain tells you when you're lusting after that 22 year old model, it's never gonna happen, with the nMP, I don't have the need or the money, and I can wait. Only bad thing: knowing it ain't gonna happen doesn't make the lust any easier.
 
I didn't buy it because it would be pushing my budget too much, and the benefits of the new approach will not be felt quickly enough.

Only when a large percentage of the software I use has made use of the GPU's for performance will the real power of the new Mac Pro be shown.

GPU power for general computing is a good idea, but the nMP format is not supported enough yet because it is such a new option.
 
Can't justify it, my 4,1 has been doing justice for me since I got it.

I'm anxious about 2nd hand upgrades though after the nMP comes out. I'm hoping to pickup some stuff on the cheap from the people who are getting the nMP. :)

Specifically Xeons & RAM.. I know, I know, I don't need it but if the value is there, it'll be hard to resist..
 

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there 1699 and less than a month ago they had the 12 core for 2199.00
 

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Price alone isn't the factor why i am skipping the Mac Pro.

as a long time PC user, who is currently on probably 6 year old hardware (Athlon II x4 @ 3.0Ghz w/ 12GB ram), this is the year to upgrade.

Based on the old Mac pro size, dimensions and options, I put the Mac pro right at the top fo my list as potential replacements. its a computer with plethora of internal expansion capabilities. that is also extremely powerfull, Quiet, and looks good.

Unfortunately, the New Mac Pro is all compromise. While it looks really cool, and if circumstances were any different, It would remain at the top of my list. unfortunately, the new design is a complete non starter for me and the nMP gets stricken off my list completely.

I'm not a media producer. I don't use OpenCL. I have no use for workstation level graphics cards. making it so that the core "design" is a fixed theme, means no matter what, I have to get 2x workstation graphics cards and only one CPU. So far, they've indicated no options otherwise. I'm a database administrator. I need lots of ram and the more cores the better! Highly parallel report generation. those 2 GPU's i have no choice but to buy now are going to sit idle 99.9% of the time. I would have been better served if you could customise the loadout. 2 CPU and 1 GPU would have been ideal. Replacing those GPU's too with a midrange consumer card would have also been welcome (who doesn't want to play the odd game now and then).

Then, the compromise on expandibility also makes it a non starter. External devices isn't a suitable replacement for internal. its a compromise at best. An example i've used to demonstrate is my situation. Currently, my desktop computer contains everything internal. 3 HDD's. 2 SSDs, Memory card reader. 2 optical drives, and a TV Tuner card (since my PC also does my Live TV streaming in the house)

my house is tiny as well. my home office is a room that is 8'x5'. I have just enough room for a desk. that desk has just enough room for 3 monitors, my keyboard, Mousepad and a large dinner plate. Where is this tower supposed to go? Nevermind that, Where is this tower AND the 3-4 different expansion thunderbolt devices supposed to go? what about the dozens of wires now sitting on my desk? Now each one requires it's own THunderbolt cable and will require additional power outlets for each device, which means upgrading my small UPS! Currently my workstation computer sits on the floor at the back of my desk. Where I can put my feet up and keep them warm :p

And almost none of that consideration also includes the fact that, while the nMP price itself doesn't seem too unreasonable, you wlil have no choice but to spend additional hundreds, if not thousands on Thunderbolt based expansion bays. A cost that a normal tower doesn't include.

So yeah. Apples move to a appliance instead of a pro computer has completely elliminated me from purchasing this. And Apple has absolutely zero products that will even remotely fit that need. So unfortunately, I will have to go the rout of a custom desktop that I can hopefully Hackintosh
 
Last edited:
Because its not here yet

I'd buy it if it were here today/yesterday.

My 2008 MacPro has served me well. Its time for something else.

Cheers!


avemestr said:
So, with a thread on reasons to buy a nMP, I'd try to be the contrarian.

Reasons I'm not buying an nMP:

1) I bought a 4,1 in October 2012 (remember, that's when a new MP was just around the corner, haha, the good old days). Upgraded it with a W3680. It has a higher Geekbench score than the new low-end nMP - and set me back about half of what the nMP cost.

2) Let others burn their fingers first. The significant departure HW-wise might result in unforeseen issues.

3) The new GPUs are marketed as the best invention since sliced bread, but how well does that translate into real-life performance? Which apps will be accelerated and to what degree? Until these questions are answered, the possibility of choosing freely between GTXs, RADEONs, Titans etc. is nice to have.

4) I love the aesthetics of a closed box. I don't have any external drives connected to my current MP - instead I gradually expands the SSD and HDDs inside. I like the idea of expansion being cheap and gradual instead of big bang at purchase (or expensive, at least where I live) Apple "service" replacement of internal storage. You might call me "non-pro" since I don't have a storage array connected to the machine, but I prefer to have my long-term data on a NAS instead. With a nMP I'd be forced to have a storage array and PSU attached on the desk - and so far everything Thunderbolt just seems expensive.

5) The performance of the nMP seems under-whelming to say the least. The top-of-the-line nMP beats the 2012 with only about 18% (29721 vs 25208) in raw processing power. Remember when we laughed at the 2012 MP being "2010 tech"? Well, then the nMP seems only able to beat 2-4 year old tech by 18%. Comic. We cannot blame Intel alone - Apple could have made DP an option, as it has for many years. It seems the CPU Apple use (E5-2697) can be used in a DP configuration, which could result in a Geekbench score above 43000.


So, if you have money to burn (even if you're a pro and can deduct the expense from your taxes the nMP still costs money) the nMP might be the best thing since sliced bread. If you have a very old MP or if you just want the latest and greatest, the nMP is a great buy.

Personally, I'll probably wait till 2015 or 2016, and might at that time buy a top-of-the-line 2012 MP on the cheap - or a nMP when it has proven it's worth.
Click to expand...
 
Cos I don't need one.

My 3,1 is fine for my uses and so will the used 5,1 that will eventually replace it.

If I won the lottery I'd buy one maxed out just for fun though :D
 
Because I want a 'Mac', not a 'Mac Pro'

I want a machine with the same form factor, a core i7 and a GTX 780. Don't need 64GB of ECC RAM, 32 GB of standard DDR will do. Don't need ISV certification. Don't need Xeon. Don't need workstation GPU's and I definitely don't want a feckin iMac before anyone suggest that pile of crap. Gimme a proper desktop that's not using laptop parts please.
 
shaunp said:
I want a machine with the same form factor, a core i7 and a GTX 780. Don't need 64GB of ECC RAM, 32 GB of standard DDR will do. Don't need ISV certification. Don't need Xeon. Don't need workstation GPU's and I definitely don't want a feckin iMac before anyone suggest that pile of crap. Gimme a proper desktop that's not using laptop parts please.
Click to expand...

???....

Are you saying you want an i7 and a GTX780 in the new case? or in the old MP case?

----------
shaunp said:
Gimme a proper desktop that's not using laptop parts please.
Click to expand...

Contact this guy, tell him you want one with an i7 and your choice of video card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitfenix-Pr...1270849442?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2a3495a7a2
 
shaunp said:
I want a machine with the same form factor, a core i7 and a GTX 780. Don't need 64GB of ECC RAM, 32 GB of standard DDR will do. Don't need ISV certification. Don't need Xeon. Don't need workstation GPU's and I definitely don't want a feckin iMac before anyone suggest that pile of crap. Gimme a proper desktop that's not using laptop parts please.
Click to expand...

You best wait for Quo to release their LGA2011 motherboard.
 
wildmac said:
???....

Are you saying you want an i7 and a GTX780 in the new case? or in the old MP case?

----------



Contact this guy, tell him you want one with an i7 and your choice of video card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitfenix-Pr...1270849442?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2a3495a7a2
Click to expand...

I'm sure, like him, I'm not alone in saying that if this nMP tube was made with more consumer grade parts with some gaming chops, isntead of being exclusively made for the workstation OpenCL crowd, it would probably be a great seller.

for A workstation box work productivity box? it's a niche product at best.

Replace that CPU with a standard i5/i7 variant and replace those Workstation class cards with x-fired consumer grade parts. And this thing has great potential for a midranged all in one gaming appliance computer, that also does what 99% of computer users want it to. USB3.0 would be more than enough for the average users media needs. it could easily be sold for a lot less than the rumoured prices will be for this in current configuration, but still be apple "premium priced" with margin.

in fact, you'd probably see gamers drooling allover an All in one box like that! something they can pick up easily and take around with them if they want to go game elsewhere. But has some serious chops for everyday use too
But, intsead Apple implies tha the "pro" moniker is for Media creation professionals only.
 
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