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Why are you NOT buying a nMP?
- Thread starter avemestr
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Yes, that's the standard response to any criticism of Apple's lineup: they are rich and powerful, so everything they do must be right. It's a sort of deference to authority that's rather disturbing.
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...the more models they offer, the longer it takes them to refresh them. Look how long the Mac Pro took. And no word in the Mac Mini yet. If there was another model, people would be frustrated that it's not Haswell yet and what's taking Apple so long and why is everything about iOS!
Letting products go without updates is a management decision, not an engineering or cost limitation. Apple could drop a Haswell chipset into the Mini easier than most of us can take a dump. There just isn't much payoff to doing so. Update cycles are naturally longer in a lagging economy, and performance is already so high now that updates usually don't equate to the ability to do new things with a computer. It all conspires to create a "**** it" mentality towards hardware upgrades.
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I was not trying to make any excuses on Apple's behalf. I simply look at these things from a pure cold hearted what is bottom line point of view, as I am sure any business would.
Primarily because of the cost, which is why I just built a 'workstation' to suit my needs/wants for under $5K.
Already have a 30" NEC PA301W, which will be more than good enough until quality 4K screens come out at reasonable prices. I also put in all my existing HDDs so I didn't spend extra on external enclosures.
Z9PA-U8
E5-2690V2 10 cores @3.0GHz
64Gb 1600MHz non-ecc RAM
750w PSU
Two Samsung Pro 840 128Gb in raid
GTX760 2Gb
ODD (yes I still burn DVDs)
4x USB 3 and multi card reader for front panel
Fairly ugly looking case compared to the nMP, but I can throw more stuff inside later
Windows 8.1 OEM now, hackintosh later
Apart from the dual GPU, I'd say it's comparable.
I upgraded the 6 core nMP on Apple's web site to an 8 core 3.0GHz CPU with 64Gb RAM to bring it close to what I built: A$ 8,538.99 incl. GST. That's a difference that would allow you to get a top end MacBook Pro with change left over.
Don't get me wrong, If I were rich I would get the nMP. Even my build is not exactly cheap. I just disagree with those who claim that the nMP is actually cheap for what you get when breaking it down to components.
Already have a 30" NEC PA301W, which will be more than good enough until quality 4K screens come out at reasonable prices. I also put in all my existing HDDs so I didn't spend extra on external enclosures.
Z9PA-U8
E5-2690V2 10 cores @3.0GHz
64Gb 1600MHz non-ecc RAM
750w PSU
Two Samsung Pro 840 128Gb in raid
GTX760 2Gb
ODD (yes I still burn DVDs)
4x USB 3 and multi card reader for front panel
Fairly ugly looking case compared to the nMP, but I can throw more stuff inside later
Windows 8.1 OEM now, hackintosh later
Apart from the dual GPU, I'd say it's comparable.
I upgraded the 6 core nMP on Apple's web site to an 8 core 3.0GHz CPU with 64Gb RAM to bring it close to what I built: A$ 8,538.99 incl. GST. That's a difference that would allow you to get a top end MacBook Pro with change left over.
Don't get me wrong, If I were rich I would get the nMP. Even my build is not exactly cheap. I just disagree with those who claim that the nMP is actually cheap for what you get when breaking it down to components.
that's the used/refurb mac pro market.. so you maybe have to wait another year or two til the 6,1 drops into play..
until then, there will be very good deals to be had on the 5,1 etc.
That only works with upgradable towers. The nMP isn't going to be very useful used since you're stuck with the original configuration.
Try google: here's one, fer instance:
http://www.tonymacx86.com/user-builds/57869-tagny-daggartss-build-core-i7-3770k-ga-z77x-ud5h-f7.html
No, it's reality. Hanging around these parts for a while I've certainly seen an abundance of Apple deification, but this isn't it. Face it, your wants fall into what amounts to a fairly small group. A group that Apple doesn't deem profitable enough or worth their time. Sure, they may be wrong. But they pay a lot of money to smart people and have much better information than any of us to come to that conclusion.
Amen to that.
A lot of the posts here focus on speed, graphics and relatively processor or graphics intensive uses. Yet there's a market out there, I think, for simple, slower Apples that are not big iOS devices, or the man says, computers attached like limpets to good monitors.
I'm a lawyer. The only speed I need in a computer is now accomplished via the use of an SSD; graphics speed and processor speed are fine in lower level machines. But what I really really want and need for my office is a machine that can be serviced without shipping it to Apple. Sure, I can have redundant machines, but it kinda peeves me that when the HDD fails (and in my experience they are the things that usually go in iMacs or Minis) you're hosed. Yeah, we could attach externals, and with $Thunderbolt that's less of a performance hit, but why? Why not just a user serviceable HDD compartment? I don't need it any thinner or smaller.
Hence I was hoping for just an expandable nMP that allowed for internal RAIDs and swapping out of components. Nothing fancy. Nothing small. Nothing with a monitor. And even though Apple is a slave to visual design, you'd think they could design an iMaker or something that we could customize and use for years and years.
I am not buying an nMP as when saw the preview could tell would be more power then I need at the moment.
Hopped on a 5,1 second hand over the summer that I have upgraded too the spec in my signature.
This does me very well, and should last for quite a few more years for what I need.
By then should see nMP on the second hand market. I reckon it won't be that hard to find a Hexacore / Dual 700 / 1Tb in about 3 years time. This seems to be a popular spec
Hopped on a 5,1 second hand over the summer that I have upgraded too the spec in my signature.
This does me very well, and should last for quite a few more years for what I need.
By then should see nMP on the second hand market. I reckon it won't be that hard to find a Hexacore / Dual 700 / 1Tb in about 3 years time. This seems to be a popular spec
Yes, and the basic reason is because they're not particularly profitable.
The customer of the xMac is the one who will DIY incremental upgrades ... pretty much never purchased from Apple ... to have that machine live for roughly twice as long. the poster child for this was the Mac 7500/8500/9500 series - their CPU was on a daughter card that was very easy to buy via 3rd party and drop in.
-hh
Child proofing
A reason for potentially not getting the nMP is that it's not as child-proof as the old huge tower design. An enterprising toddler can easily rip one off a desk. Better keep that office locked...
A reason for potentially not getting the nMP is that it's not as child-proof as the old huge tower design. An enterprising toddler can easily rip one off a desk. Better keep that office locked...
For me, the old Mac Pro essentially is my xMac. I can just keep on upgrading it.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18545965/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18545965/
Wanting a practical and versatile workstation tower isn't a minority opinion. It's the design used by every single other Xeon workstation on the market. Towers are popular for a reason, and they dominate the workstation market for a reason.
The small group are those who believe the nMP is a practical workstation design. You are a minority of a minority, a slice of the small group who buy Apple Xeon workstations.
Predictably, you resort to the "Apple pays smart people gobs of money so they know best" argument. If only that were true...
I'm not buying a new Mac Pro because Apple abandoned me. Why do I want to spend 20K on a Mac, monitor, peripherals and tax - only to run FCPX 'optimized'? Obviously that's an oversimplification but I got a freight train in my 12 core MP stuffed full of SSD's, RAM and CUDA cards. NO ONE is using FCPX anymore, including me. I'm chewing up 4K like baby food so until standards or delivery requirements change, I don't need anything else from Apple.
I WOULD buy one in a heartbeat if they released FCP8 (FCS4) that was just the old software but with faster rendering - and showed some love for the pro market. As it stands I see no need to make that large an investment in a company that clearly doesn't care about my needs.
I WOULD buy one in a heartbeat if they released FCP8 (FCS4) that was just the old software but with faster rendering - and showed some love for the pro market. As it stands I see no need to make that large an investment in a company that clearly doesn't care about my needs.
You've got it wrong. He was talking about the xMac that people around here love to talk about, thinking Apple is ignoring a huge potential market. Obviously Apple disagrees and chances are they have a little more insider knowledge that backs up their beliefs. And don't pigeonhole me as some Apple zealot. I'm neither strongly pro nor strongly negative new Mac Pro. I always just wanted an upgraded tower. But that's gone for good.
To simply brush off the fact that Apple has a pretty decent track record, does employ a lot of smart people, and is an extremely successful company is just flat out ignorant.
I so Agree
We did the same thing for our Video guys
FCPX is way to basic and too limited
Why build something for someone that people do not like to use ?
To me it sounds like the main speed improvement is for GPU processing. Size wise, it would be nicer than my 2008.
On the other hand, I've upgraded mine through the years. SSD. Additional RAM. For MY usage, which doesn't target the strengths of the new MP, it wouldn't be worth it for me.
If mine died, I would just consider seeing about building a nice hackintosh. It would allow me to reuse the better parts, such as eSata card, SSD drives, monitors, keyboard. Just in a smaller case than my MP.
On the other hand, I've upgraded mine through the years. SSD. Additional RAM. For MY usage, which doesn't target the strengths of the new MP, it wouldn't be worth it for me.
If mine died, I would just consider seeing about building a nice hackintosh. It would allow me to reuse the better parts, such as eSata card, SSD drives, monitors, keyboard. Just in a smaller case than my MP.