Why can't Apple have a subnotebook?

[clevin]

Apple's overall market share is low, true, but when you consider the number of units of a given Apple notebook that get sold in comparison to the number of units of any given Windows notebook, I think they're still quite high, because Apple has so few models and a relatively healthy notebook marketshare.

Well, anyway, I hope they can manage to squeeze in one more branch.

lol, i do wish apple push OSX to as many device as they can, but, as I see it, apple is a business company and really care more about making money now. for something really doesn't even make money for pc manufacturer, I can't imagine apple would jump in... sad.

 

[mkrishnan]

I thought ultra-portables were pretty high margin things? I'm not talking about a $500 notebook... I'm talking about a really well designed <4 lb notebook with a commensurate price. I guess I'm not sure. I definitely agree that Apple wouldn't get in that market unless it were lucrative. But I think it might be.

 

[clevin]

I thought ultra-portables were pretty high margin things? I'm not talking about a $500 notebook... I'm talking about a really well designed <4 lb notebook with a commensurate price. I guess I'm not sure. I definitely agree that Apple wouldn't get in that market unless it were lucrative. But I think it might be.

oh gee, im pretty sure we are talking about different stuff, lol
i was referring to some of those <8" stuff as show in that link. hehe, for your point, for 12" notebook, i totally agree. it would be successful if managed well.

 

[grafikat]

Sometimes, I have felt my desire for a Mac UMPC was a lonely cry in the wilderness. I really wanted something similar to a pepperpad, which is based on linux. Unfortunately, I'm too attached to the mac os, which currently won't run on its processor.

General consenus from various sources: While Newton's handwriting software is STILL the best (LOL!) Mr. Jobs has frequently stated he is not a pda fan (hence Newton's demise.)

Of course, he has been known to change his mind.

If a subnote book/ UMPC shows up at macworld, I will be a bit sad, as I gave in and got the 13" macbook.

 

[interlaced]

But with the heat the Intel Core architecture produces, don't put the Funsize on your Funspot, or your kernel will panic.

ahahaha! omg.. hilarious.

 

[popelife]

New low-voltage C2D chips are due in January. The L7200 and L7400 dissipate half the power of the current Meroms. Combine the 7400 with a low-power / small form-factor approach to the whole thing and suddenly an ultra-portable MacBook becomes a possibility.

See my "MacBook Nano" thread where I uncontrollably fantasise (all on my own it seems!) about just such a thing:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/264285/

As someone rightly pointed out, several PC manufacturers are doing it already. The problem is that you can't get i) dual-core performance ii) a small form factor and iii) sensible battery life all at the same time. At least not until now.

The demand is definitely there. Ultra-portables are the hot new computing product, and a reasonably-priced Apple UP would sell by the boat-load.

OTOH I suspect a tablet Mac running OS X would tank commercially. The public is much more comfortable with the laptop concept.

An Apple PDA/iPod would be something I would go for... but that's a whole different product.

 

[operator]

I'd like to see a super ultra mega hyper light model. It would be so lightweight and thin that the weight and height would actually be in the negative values and the computer intself would not be visible to the naked eye (-0.8 inches thin and -3.2lbs would be the sweet spot, imo). These negative values would of course cause anyone attempting to use the machine to have their body turned inside-out, and sucked into a parallel universe via a thermal dynamic vortex, where they would proceed to compute with their guts on the outside and their skin on the inside.

I'm super pumped about this machine being unveiled at macworld.

 

[popelife]

I'd like to see a super ultra mega hyper light model. It would be so lightweight and thin that the weight and height would actually be in the negative values and the computer intself would not be visible to the naked eye (-0.8 inches thin and -3.2lbs would be the sweet spot, imo). These negative values would of course cause anyone attempting to use the machine to have their body turned inside-out, and sucked into a parallel universe via a thermal dynamic vortex, where they would proceed to compute with their guts on the outside and their skin on the inside.

Not at this year's MacWorld. Intel processors that make that level of miniaturisation possible aren't due until Q2 2008.

 

[72930]

Not at this year's MacWorld. Intel processors that make that level of miniaturisation possible aren't due until Q2 2008.

What 'bout good ol' AMD?

 

[sushi]

I am so puzzled that Apple hasn't gotten a notebook computer < 4.5 lbs. After all, Sony and Toshiba and even LG have managed to do it.

I love my Sharp MM20 which comes in under 2 pounds. And it's old!

With CPU, HD and flash memory advances I don't see why we can't have a full featured 12" MBP that comes in around 2 pounds sans Combo/Superdrive.

 

[j26]

500 grams?

454 grams actually

 

[popelife]

I love my Sharp MM20 which comes in under 2 pounds. And it's old!

I think that's because old-school processors (e.g. Celeron) use significantly less power than things like Core Duo. Roughly-speaking, "performance per watt" gains mean that processing power has quadrupled, while power consumption has only doubled... Oops.

Partly fixed with L7400, which is why I think the next few months (and conceivably weeks!) could see a smaller MacBook.

With CPU, HD and flash memory advances I don't see why we can't have a full featured 12" MBP that comes in around 2 pounds sans Combo/Superdrive.

I think you could only make this happen by using a slow Core Solo. Having raised the performance bar, I don't think Apple would consider lowering it again that much.

I also don't think Apple will produce a notebook without a built-in DVD drive these days. Lots of the things people want to do require an optical drive - use as a portable DVD player, ripping in iTunes, backing up photo shoots to DVD-R.

In any case, optical drives needn't add lots of size/weight any more. See the TX3.

I think PDAs/smartphones are the way forward if you're going to leave out optical drives and proper keyboards.

 

[mkrishnan]

I think you could only make this happen by using a slow Core Solo. Having raised the performance bar, I don't think Apple would consider lowering it again that much.

Yeah... I tend to think this isn't what they want either. I see this about as likely as an Apple laptop having an optical drive with a tray or door.

These L7200 and L7400 do look promising. They seem to offer pretty good performance with much better power consumption. Hopefully Apple does make some use of them.

 

[sushi]

I think that's because old-school processors (e.g. Celeron) use significantly less power than things like Core Duo.
<snip>

Yeah... I tend to think this isn't what they want either.
<snip>

You both make some good points.

Apple will probably not make a laptop without an optical drive because they want a full featured laptop.

Living here in Japan we get to see many ultralight/subnotebook models. It is surprising how light and full featured they have become over time.

Apple's pro laptop keyboard is very good. While I love the MM20, the keyboard is a bit small and it takes me a little to adjust each time I go to use it. I find the same with most smaller laptops/subnotebook computers. I like the current PB12 form factor. It would be so cool to see it modified with a 10.4 to 12 inch cinema display while retaining the same keyboard, and being lightened up a bit.

Until then, I will keep the MM20 for my on the go needs when I don't need the full features of my PB15.

 

[iW00t]

You both make some good points.

Apple will probably not make a laptop without an optical drive because they want a full featured laptop.

Living here in Japan we get to see many ultralight/subnotebook models. It is surprising how light and full featured they have become over time.

Apple's pro laptop keyboard is very good. While I love the MM20, the keyboard is a bit small and it takes me a little to adjust each time I go to use it. I find the same with most smaller laptops/subnotebook computers. I like the current PB12 form factor. It would be so cool to see it modified with a 10.4 to 12 inch cinema display while retaining the same keyboard, and being lightened up a bit.

Until then, I will keep the MM20 for my on the go needs when I don't need the full features of my PB15.

Does the 12" Powerbook has the same sized keyboard as the 15"?

I never owned a 12" but if I'm not mistaken the only difference between the two models is the size of the speaker grills at the sides right?

 

[sushi]

Does the 12" Powerbook has the same sized keyboard as the 15"?

I never owned a 12" but if I'm not mistaken the only difference between the two models is the size of the speaker grills at the sides right?

The keyboard is the same. However, I believe that you can only get backlighting for the PB15 and PB17 models. At least that was the way it was when I got one for my dad.

IMHO, the PB/MBP keyboards are fantastic -- especially for touch typists. On a side note, reminds me why I keep my IBM keyboard for my PC. The thing is heavy and bulky, but works like a charm.

 

[Mac'Mo]

YES! exactly, i mean apple notebooks looks sleek and all but i was really disappointed that hte MB weighed more than 5 lbs =( it makes me totally sad

 

[raptor96]

When I was looking for computers (before I bought my PB 12") I was really struck (and still am) by the Panasonic W5. In fact that would be my kind of ideal computer style to fill the gap in the current product line (for a 12" PB style computer) because it's sleek, one ups its predecessors and still manages to meet the new computing benchmarks. So my two cents are that I hope that Apple introduces something more in the vein of solid computing a la 12" PB but with the weight and sleekness of the W5 (not that my PB ain't sleek and awesome - but light it is not). W5 + OS X FTW!

 

[stevento]

I am so puzzled that Apple hasn't gotten a notebook computer < 4.5 lbs. After all, Sony and Toshiba and even LG have managed to do it.

I use the notebook for basic photo editing and writing my books. I need lighter!

http://www.dynamism.com has some very beautiful examples. ...

there was one i saw someone with. it looked like a macbook pro 15 " but with the sides chopped off, it was a very small computer.

 

[dpaanlka]

there was one i saw someone with. it looked like a macbook pro 15 " but with the sides chopped off, it was a very small computer.

That's the 12" PowerBook G4, sold from early 2003 - early 2006.

 

[dpaanlka]

I am so puzzled that Apple hasn't gotten a notebook computer < 4.5 lbs. After all, Sony and Toshiba and even LG have managed to do it.

Apple did it too - and before all of them!

The PowerBook Duo 210, 230, 270, and 280 were all under 4.5 pounds.



They had one awesome feature that even the current portables do not have - a fully-enclosing dock that could support a full size display, and gave the PowerBook NuBus expansion slots (the predecessor to PCI), a second hard drive, full ports, and a floppy drive... the notebook itself did not have a CD-ROM or floppy drive, but it did have a speaker, mouse (trackpad in the final model), modem, and printer port. Miniature docks could be purchased that would add one or two ports you might need on the go, such as ethernet or SCSI (predecessor to FireWire).

You can see it in action here (being inserted) and here (being ejected).

For me this would be an awesome laptop solution. A full desktop at home (PCI slots, internal DVD-RW, internal hard drives, full ports... perhaps in a tower configuration) and a super light laptop for on the go.

Apple cancelled the PowerBook Duo line in early 1997.

 

[raptor96]

Apple did it too - and before all of them!

The PowerBook Duo 210, 230, 270, and 280 were all under 4.5 pounds.

View attachment 65173

They had one awesome feature that even the current portables do not have - a fully-enclosing dock that could support a full size display, and gave the PowerBook NuBus expansion slots (the predecessor to PCI), a second hard drive, full ports, and a floppy drive... the notebook itself did not have a CD-ROM or floppy drive, but it did have a speaker, mouse (trackpad in the final model), modem, and printer port. Miniature docks could be purchased that would add one or two ports you might need on the go, such as ethernet or SCSI (predecessor to FireWire).

You can see it in action here (being inserted) and here (being ejected).

For me this would be an awesome laptop solution. A full desktop at home (PCI slots, internal DVD-RW, internal hard drives, full ports... perhaps in a tower configuration) and a super light laptop for on the go.

Apple cancelled the PowerBook Duo line in early 1997.

That is SO cool. I'm very jealous. I wish that my powerbook did that. I'm still trying to find a cheap Bookendz dock on ebay for it so I can disconnect it from my Ext. HD and port replicator etc. etc. + Monitor for classes without it being a big hassle. Sadly, every time I look on ebay it's like $100...this Powerbook Duo thing would have been a godsend. Shame it's gone.

 

[princealfie]

Yeah, looks like I will have to stick to my 12" Powerbook for a while longer then.

 

[mkrishnan]

W5 + OS X FTW!

God, I don't know... that thing is very small and light, and it's extraordinarily designed in terms of it's durability approach and so on. But sleek is the very last word in the English language that I would use to describe it. That size class, though, with Apple elegance and minimalism, and one of the ultra low voltage C2Ds (because a Pentium M is going to be a Marco Po-No for Apple)... that'll be FTW to me.

 

[Warbrain]

I love my Sharp MM20 which comes in under 2 pounds. And it's old!

With CPU, HD and flash memory advances I don't see why we can't have a full featured 12" MBP that comes in around 2 pounds sans Combo/Superdrive.

Because in our current age of Apple, no portable will be made unless it is fully capable out of the box. That means no dock for the portable, no optical drive that has to be powered through a card slot or any other port, no machine that is completely and utterly useless to the majority of portable users.