Why do people use clamshell mode?

[0906742]

If I could choose again now I would definitely choose the M2.

It is smaller and lighter. I don’t care about the ports or MagSafe because I use a Thunderbolt dock anyhow. I rarely use the 14” screen, so that isn’t a factor. Single-core performance is better which is what I care most about, and 24 GB of RAM is sufficient.

The two things I would miss are dual-monitor support and 4 TB of storage, but I would make it work.

Yeah, I think I need to seriously consider MBA M2 again. Since I mostly use just productivity apps like MS Office and normal web browsing and similar everyday tasks, I think I would benefit mostly from faster single core performance and nearly equal multicore in short bursts. I was just little worried about heat issue with MBA M2 especially in clamshell mode but after seeing some of the reviews I think it might not be such an issue, even those were measuring with lid open.

I was just not so keen with the idea that I will use it with LG 32UN880-B that has 60W USB-C PD charging and it cannot be turned off, so I could not bypass that using default 30W or 35W Magsafe charger, I would need to take 67W Magsafe that bypass that (still not sure even that does it) and it would be fast charging which I'd like to avoid...

So currently I'm considering MBA M2 with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, and maybe with 67W charger
VS
MBP 14" Base + upgrade to 10 core

So now there is easily over 500 Euro difference between them. Initially I was looking MBP 14" base and just about 300 Euro price difference. Either one not really an issue but since I use it 99% of the time in clamshell mode, better screen and speakers in MBP go waste anyway. Not sure about the resale value of MBP 14" vs custom MBA M2.

Can anyone recommend Thunderbolt dock that actually is reliable and has NO charging for Laptop but can be used to USB-C to USB-C (or DP alt mode) with full resolution support and 1 Gb lan and maybe couple of free USB or USB-C ports with fast speed? That way I would have one free USB-C port in MBA plus I could use default 30W Magsafe charger all the time.

 

[azentropy]

I use clamshell mode often because where I can place my MB on my desk is off to the side. It is just distracting to me to constantly turn my head to use it in many cases. If I'm running some background process that I just occasionally want to glance at then I'll use it for that (like sometimes if I'm watching the Stockmarket closely for something, or monitoring something in a terminal window, or monitoring a camera/security feed). But even then is when I'm only using a one monitor setup, if I'm using a two monitor setup I revert back to clamshell mode.

 

[ADGrant]

I never understood this either.

Apple makes incredible desktops for people who want to connect a larger display. Use the right tools for the job. Buy a desktop Mac for work at the desk, and use your MacBook Pros as laptops when you need them.

Simples.

I used to use my personal laptop in clamshell mode. It never left my desk so I replaced it with a desktop Mac. I use my iPad when I am away from my desk.

For work, my employer provides Citrix thin clients to remote into my actual work PC. They also provide a Dell laptop which can only be used as a Citrix thin client. I already have Citrix software on my Mac desktop at home so the Dell laptop stays unused in a drawer at work.

 

[Traverse]

So you both suggest MBP 14" suitable as replacement for desktop system previously based on Mac Mini M1?
It will be safe to keep MBP all the time plugged in and in clamshell mode and just leave it sleep while not in use?
Of course keeping Optimized Battery Charging enabled in the settings?

That will not cause battery swelling or display lid getting "glue" shut due to rubber gasket getting damage from constant heat or such?

I seriously consider getting MBP 14" to replace my Mac Mini M1. I had MBA M1 as my portable computer but sold it because I used it like 1 or 2 times in a month (and even then mostly forced myself to find some use for it), so in the future I could take my clamshell MBP if or when I actually need a portable laptop.

If you literally have zero need for a laptop and will never have a use for a laptop, then I'd recommend the Mac Studio as you'd be paying for things you don't need (built in keyboard, screen, etc.). For me, I needed a computer now, the Mac Studio I had suffered from whine and I couldn't get a new one, and I would need a laptop eventually. It has been a very good desktop for me.

A few weeks I had to spend about 18 hours encoding some 4K video (very rare project for me). During that time I did leave the Mac open as the fans were at 5,000+ with temperatures around 85℃, but I only did to make me feel better. Same with the battery. macOS caps my charge at around 80% with optimize battery charging, but I run it down to 20% about once a month or so - again just a me thing.

At the end of the day there are really two considerations:

1. Apple even has support documents explaining clamshell mode; it is an endorsed use-case. I would think that after decades of supporting that mode Apple would have realized if there were use cases that cause issues (running screen, over heating, etc) would either stop supporting it or give clear disclaimers. Given that Apple has zero warnings on this mode and even supports it shows that they don't think it's an issue.
2. Be practical. If you're going to push the CPU to 100% for hours and hours for video work with a lot of heat - consider opening it. Not because someone said you need to, but just because logically that might help and you will have a battery or drain it on occasion when it works for you.

 

[0906742]

If you literally have zero need for a laptop and will never have a use for a laptop, then I'd recommend the Mac Studio as you'd be paying for things you don't need (built in keyboard, screen, etc.). For me, I needed a computer now, the Mac Studio I had suffered from whine and I couldn't get a new one, and I would need a laptop eventually. It has been a very good desktop for me.

For this reason I'm not taking my chances with Mac Studio, not the first time I hear someone complaining about what you said. I'm allergic to this type of sound, and loud cooling fan noise is another. So quiet is preferred, like my Mini M1 even it has constantly running fan, it is practically soundless, and I think MBP 14" base model is more or less the same.

 

[Traverse]

For this reason I'm not taking my chances with Mac Studio, not the first time I hear someone complaining about what you said. I'm allergic to this type of sound, and loud cooling fan noise is another. So quiet is preferred, like my Mini M1 even it has constantly running fan, it is practically soundless, and I think MBP 14" base model is more or less the same.

Running in clamshell mode the fans are off for very light tasks though it isn’t hard to get them to kick in at 2500 RPM, but it’s inaudible to me even in a silent room. Even with moderate use I’ve never pushed the fans above 2500 RPM outside of 4K encoding.

 

[0906742]

Running in clamshell mode the fans are off for very light tasks though it isn’t hard to get them to kick in at 2500 RPM, but it’s inaudible to me even in a silent room. Even with moderate use I’ve never pushed the fans above 2500 RPM outside of 4K encoding.

Yeah, I think MBP 14" would pass as silent enough for my use. I had 13" Pro 2019 model myself few years ago and it had pretty quiet fan even it was Intel and ran how when I pushed it. In normal everyday use, it was practically silent.

BTW, it there going to be issues with Bluetooth and WiFi range when using clamshell mode?
Currently in my Mini M1 range is very good and I can actually walk around easily to another rooms within say 10 meters away without break ups or lost connection. I believe in MBP and MBA antennas are located in the display lid (at least in many other notebooks they are) and since there is metal chassis, I think it will affect or even prevent signal when lid is closed?

 

[throAU]

I never understood this either.

Apple makes incredible desktops for people who want to connect a larger display. Use the right tools for the job. Buy a desktop Mac for work at the desk, and use your MacBook Pros as laptops when you need them.

Simples.

Sure, just buy two machines and deal with all of the additional money and computer janitorial BS (application and OS upgrades, backups, data sync between them, etc.) that entails.

Nope. I'd rather spend the full budget on one higher spec machine thanks - if its feasible.

And with the newer Apple silicon portables - finally, it is (for me at least, the rest of you with higher end workloads that still won't fit in a MacBook Pro - I feel your pain, hopefully soon).

 

[throAU]

Because I usually don’t need an additional screen when I am already using another big screen.

I used to be a massive dual screen user. Until screens finally got big.

These days, I've noticed that 90% of the time the second screen just sits there with something I never look at, and macOS with the three finger swipe between full screen apps is better as it allows me to focus, but quickly switch when required.

No more extra display on my desk taking up space and getting in the way of whatever other stuff I am working on (paperwork, network devices(I'm a network guy), etc.).

 

[0906742]

Sure, just buy two machines and deal with all of the additional money and computer janitorial BS (application and OS upgrades, backups, data sync between them, etc.) that entails.

Nope. I'd rather spend the full budget on one higher spec machine thanks - if its feasible.

So you are also using your MBP in clamshell mode a lot? How long you have used it that way and have you had any issues from using clamshell mode? How it battery health doing and it display still in perfect condition?

 

[throAU]

So you are also using your MBP in clamshell mode a lot? How long you have used it that way and have you had any issues from using clamshell mode? How it battery health doing and it display still in perfect condition?

I don't even use an external display with it most of the time at all.

My post was in reference to someone above stating that you should buy a desktop for desktop and use a MacBook as a MacBook. That means two machines to maintain, and its just a waste of time unless you truly need something more powerful than a MacBook Pro on the desktop. And most probably don't.

In my view that's stupid (two machines when you could have one with far better spec for same/less money).I've also discovered that the productivity benefit of TWO screens is mostly non-existent after doing it for 2 decades - assuming your monitor is big enough and/or you have decent desktop display management. So I can understand the clamshell usage.

But for me its probably 90% built in display (even at my desk at work, gives me more room for other stuff) and clamshell to 27" 4k display at home.

 

[0906742]

I don't even use an external display with it most of the time at all.

My post was in reference to someone above stating that you should buy a desktop for desktop and use a MacBook as a MacBook. That means two machines to maintain, and its just a waste of time unless you truly need something more powerful than a MacBook Pro on the desktop. And most probably don't.

In my view that's stupid (two machines when you could have one with far better spec for same/less money).I've also discovered that the productivity benefit of TWO screens is mostly non-existent after doing it for 2 decades - assuming your monitor is big enough and/or you have decent desktop display management. So I can understand the clamshell usage.

But for me its probably 90% built in display (even at my desk at work, gives me more room for other stuff) and clamshell to 27" 4k display at home.

My point here is also that I could easily get away with using just one computer and much less maintenance plus avoid needing double licenses for some programs I use. I used to have MBA M1 too which spent most of the time in the cabinet, I used it like once or twice a month and even then I usually had to force myself to use it. But I want to have notebook still just in case and in either case I will end up getting at least MBA M2 even it would end up in the cabinet. For desktop use I've had Mini M1 and I also have Windows 11 desktop that I mostly use from Mini using Remote Desktop. It would be great if I could really replace this system with my "cabinet" MacBook in the future.

However I have 32" 4K monitor and I definitely prefer having this sized monitor for desktop use and I find laptop sized screen uncomfortable for long time use.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah, I think MBP 14" would pass as silent enough for my use. I had 13" Pro 2019 model myself few years ago and it had pretty quiet fan even it was Intel and ran how when I pushed it. In normal everyday use, it was practically silent.

BTW, it there going to be issues with Bluetooth and WiFi range when using clamshell mode?
Currently in my Mini M1 range is very good and I can actually walk around easily to another rooms within say 10 meters away without break ups or lost connection. I believe in MBP and MBA antennas are located in the display lid (at least in many other notebooks they are) and since there is metal chassis, I think it will affect or even prevent signal when lid is closed?

Lol. No. I leave my MacBook Pro on my desk at work and go for a walk at lunchtime with my Bose QC35’s. I’m amazed how far down the street I get when it tells me I’m disconnected!

 

[Traverse]

BTW, it there going to be issues with Bluetooth and WiFi range when using clamshell mode?

I regularly use a Magic Mouse, Magic Keyboard, and Magic Trackpad along with AirPods and I don't have any issues even walking to the other side of my 1300 Sq ft. house and listening to music.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I use my MacBook Air in clamshell mode almost all the time. However, I didn’t get a Mac mini because I occasionally take my MacBook Air to the library or when I travel, and with a $300 price difference between the Mac mini and the MacBook Air I might as well go for the laptop.

In the Intel days, I had both a modern iMac and a somewhat older MacBook Air. But with Apple Silicon there is hardly any performance difference between laptops and desktops, so now I only have a laptop which I use in clamshell mode. I’m quite happy that now I only have to buy one computer instead of two!

Actually, the top MBPs have been good desktop replacement boxes since the January 2011 17" MBP. More than a decade.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Curious why people use clamshell mode, especially on the new 14/16 MBP with those gorgeous screens. You are paying for that lovely screen which can be used as an additional screen, but instead decide to run in clamshell mode.

I always wondered the same thing, because I always found productive use for additional screen real estate and always wanted more. Using the additional laptop display for Photoshop palettes or Filemaker layouts or to keep Mail open just makes too much sense. Why waste available screen real estate? Clamshell mode seems illogical.

Now using three 4k displays plus the MBP display, my particular workflow is adequately served w/o the laptop display; I leave the laptop open primarily to maximize heat release. I now realize that all users do not always need more display real estate . I realize that other folks often have lesser needs, hence their willingness to waste high quality laptop screen real estate.

 

[throAU]

Actually, the top MBPs have been good desktop replacement boxes since the January 2011 17" MBP. More than a decade.

Not really.... whilst on paper they were still an i7 they were a mobile i7 with far lower clocks and far less ability to get rid of heat... I had one.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Not really.... whilst on paper they were still an i7 they were a mobile i7 with far lower clocks and far less ability to get rid of heat... I had one.

I had one too and ran the entire Adobe Suites on it driving an external display when in DTR mode, doing the same heavy image processing I previously did with a Mac Pro. Of course it was not a Mac Pro, but thanks to Thunderbolt i/o it was the first good DTR laptop. And it was mobile so I could take it right to a client's desk, or review photos on the 17" matte display before leaving the site of a shoot.

Edit: And that (often hot) box never did die, even after 5+ years of hard workflow. The battery wore out and I got a new MBP rather than spend to replace the battery.

 

[Arctic Moose]

I was just not so keen with the idea that I will use it with LG 32UN880-B that has 60W USB-C PD charging and it cannot be turned off, so I could not bypass that using default 30W or 35W Magsafe charger, I would need to take 67W Magsafe that bypass that (still not sure even that does it) and it would be fast charging which I'd like to avoid...

For USB 2.0 it was really simple to achieve this by simply cutting the +5V wire in the cable.

A very quick search doesn’t turn up any such cables for sale for Thunderbolt/USB 4, and it appears that even some functionality (such as initialization of data transfer) depends on power conductors being intact.

Perhaps it is possible to control how charging is handled (i.e. from which port, or at what wattage) from within macOS?

If not, I would just turn on optimized battery management and trust Apple to do a decent job.

(Unless of course you don’t need to use USB ports on the display. In that case you could just use a USB-C to DisplayPort cable and cut out charging that way.)

 

[0906742]

Perhaps it is possible to control how charging is handled (i.e. from which port, or at what wattage) from within macOS?

That would be great but I haven't seen any way how to do that.

If not, I would just turn on optimized battery management and trust Apple to do a decent job.

I trust Apple Optimized Battery Management function but not so much third party power supplies. I have no idea what possible power supply induced ripple causes in MacBooks, so I rather rely on their original chargers for that simple reason.

(Unless of course you don’t need to use USB ports on the display. In that case you could just use a USB-C to DisplayPort cable and cut out charging that way.)

Yeah, using DP instead of USB-C input in monitor does solve that but I find USB-C to USB-C good so that I can plug Logitech Unifying adapter in monitor USB port instead of MacBook with dongle between them.

But since I'll be likely getting MBP 14" instead of MBA M2 I was planning earlier this problem might be easiest to solve by just plugging in included Magsafe 67W charger and from what I gathered MacBook should automatically prefer higher wattage and use it since my monitor only gives 60W. I'm not sure how commonly this type of workaround is used and if it work realiably...?

 

[kasakka]

My ideal workflow would probably be an iPad Pro 12.9" running MacOS connected to external displays and peripherals.

But since that's not a thing, the next best thing is a 16" Macbook Pro. I don't need its portability most of the time but it's nice to have when I do. Single machine rather than a desktop and portable unit. I hope that my work lets me upgrade to the M2 Pro model whenever that releases because I'm tired of hearing this noisy Intel piece of crap.

For me using the laptop as an extra screen does not really work that well for fitting it on my desk. I currently use a 49" super ultrawide 5120x1440 screen and that takes a ton of physical space as is and gives me enough desktop space. So instead I have the laptop in clamshell mode behind it.

 

[0906742]

My ideal workflow would probably be an iPad Pro 12.9" running MacOS connected to external displays and peripherals.

Yeah, I think that would work fine for me too. Since iPads are still so limited due to IOS compared to MacOS my current plan is using MacBook + iPad. This way MacBook would be used as my daily desktop but I could use it like a laptop in case there is need for that. Then iPad would be my machine that I will use when I quickly need to do some simple task I don't want to bother powering up desktop/laptop. Also iPad would work fine in the most cases when I need a machine to carry with me.

I currently have an iPad Air 3 but I've been considering Air 10.9" M1 to replace it. However not sure that would give me much difference since I find screen too small in either of these to use anything else but a single app full screen at the time, so what ever M1 gives in the next IOS probably does not do much for good me anyway.

For me using the laptop as an extra screen does not really work that well for fitting it on my desk. I currently use a 49" super ultrawide 5120x1440 screen and that takes a ton of physical space as is and gives me enough desktop space. So instead I have the laptop in clamshell mode behind it.

I don't either think I will use MBP screen as a second screen, so it will be mostly in clamshell mode. I can place my MBP on the side of my 32" monitor, so basically it could work as a second screen but space I have there is maybe just too little for 16" but 14" might fit comfortably.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Yeah, I think that would work fine for me too. Since iPads are still so limited due to IOS compared to MacOS my current plan is using MacBook + iPad. This way MacBook would be used as my daily desktop but I could use it like a laptop in case there is need for that. Then iPad would be my machine that I will use when I quickly need to do some simple task I don't want to bother powering up desktop/laptop. Also iPad would work fine in the most cases when I need a machine to carry with me.

I currently have an iPad Air 3 but I've been considering Air 10.9" M1 to replace it. However not sure that would give me much difference since I find screen too small in either of these to use anything else but a single app full screen at the time, so what ever M1 gives in the next IOS probably does not do much for good me anyway.


I don't either think I will use MBP screen as a second screen, so it will be mostly in clamshell mode. I can place my MBP on the side of my 32" monitor, so basically it could work as a second screen but space I have there is maybe just too little for 16" but 14" might fit comfortably.

An open 15" MBP on a large DIY stand-up desk fits below 32" Viewsonic Displays on VESA mounts. Before using the (sweet) VESA setups I had the displays on platforms to raise them. Large displays should not be too close to the viewer, so there is plenty of space in front of the displays for an MBP. The MBP display extends down from the bottom of the center Viewsonic, so the layout looks/feels fine.

I can see why folks with limited workspaces use clamshell mode (giving up millions of highest quality viewable pixels), and for single-task users (PDF or Mail or Photos or Database or Excel) one large display is neat and clean. However, for those of us who want to productively be able to glance at multiple open apps (PDF and Mail and Photos and Database and Excel) w/o hippity-hopping among window selections, clamshell is much less productive.

 

[0906742]

An open 15" MBP on a large DIY stand-up desk fits below 32" Viewsonic Displays on VESA mounts. Before using the (sweet) VESA setups I had the displays on platforms to raise them. Large displays should not be too close to the viewer, so there is plenty of space in front of the displays for an MBP. The MBP display extends down from the bottom of the center Viewsonic, so the layout looks/feels fine.

I could lift my 32UN880-B adjustable arm to maybe place MBP 14" underneath it but I find my monitor even in its lower position barely acceptable as 32" display is so tall it would cause neck pain if it was any higher than this (I was expecting it go even lower before I got it but luckily I have been able to live with it as it is).
Also as I use 3008x1692 looks like resolution I want to keep monitor pretty close, just under about arms length away, that is sweet spot for me.

So on the right side is practically the only suitable place for mine.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

That would be great but I haven't seen any way how to do that.


I trust Apple Optimized Battery Management function but not so much third party power supplies. I have no idea what possible power supply induced ripple causes in MacBooks, so I rather rely on their original chargers for that simple reason.


Yeah, using DP instead of USB-C input in monitor does solve that but I find USB-C to USB-C good so that I can plug Logitech Unifying adapter in monitor USB port instead of MacBook with dongle between them.

But since I'll be likely getting MBP 14" instead of MBA M2 I was planning earlier this problem might be easiest to solve by just plugging in included Magsafe 67W charger and from what I gathered MacBook should automatically prefer higher wattage and use it since my monitor only gives 60W. I'm not sure how commonly this type of workaround is used and if it work realiably...?

In my experience with maxed-out MBPs and all kinds of charging devices it has never really mattered. My MBP usage has always been such that I seldom cared what wattage the MBP was charging at; it simply charges. Only under maximum hard usage have I ever seen the battery level lowering while plugged in to any wattage of charger, and my workflow (i.e. me...) has never required being able to maintain maximum hard usage for very long.

Since at least Big Sur the OS has just done a sweet job of battery management. I have always kept the original high-wattage chargers plugged in at my desktop setup location just in case max charging rate was required, but it never has been. This with 2011 17" MBP and 2016 15" MBP. Those older MBPs do not have the great battery life we see today, so both those old laptops were routinely run down to 10% or less battery in the field.

YMMV of course. Especially folks creating substantive video may have need for maximum charging. I do stills and Photoshop, not video. And especially in older boxes limited to 16 GB RAM like mine, having a large (mine is 2 TB) fast Apple internal SSD helps a lot.