As he states in the review (and explains why), Leica cameras have been used by war photojournalists for years.
Unfortunately, the new models no longer seem to be up to the job.
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Why does the Leica M8 cost so much?
- Thread starter Everythingisnt
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As he states in the review (and explains why), Leica cameras have been used by war photojournalists for years.
Unfortunately, the new models no longer seem to be up to the job.
Hey? I've only ever seen Leica's gear being used on metropolitan cities or in war zones, in fact Leica's have been in more conflicts than the US. The build quality is known to be solid and reliable. I've never come across a photographer who has used a Leica in the hills, you're lying.
How is it the wrong tool for photojournaling? It IS for photojournaling, and after reading all the pages it sounds like the M8 doesn't deliver at all. And if you did read the article, you'll notice he gave it more than enough times to work for him, which it hardly ever did.
I would expect for the price of that you'd get a camera that just delivers a knock out compared to your other cameras, like shooting a portrait with a kit lens and then an L lens... it doesn't seem to do that though.
After reading his review (granted he demands WAY more than I would), and reading what he said about their terrible service (if you spend that much you better be treated like royalty)... I would never buy an M8.
Thanks, but I did read the review. Admittedly a week or so ago.
I'm not denying that Leicas may have been PJ material at one point, but now? I don't think so. Seriously, their market has got to be non-pros and slow users. Not this guy.
The service may have been pants. But I don't think that's the issue. It's the camera. Just for the record, I know of leica Ms that are used in the hills, and I see them occasionally around oxford. Always by wealthy amateur men when they're new. When they're old there are old men, sometimes pros using them. This is just my experience. Chances of Leica thinking about war zones when they built this? Essentially nil. I honestly believe it must be almost none of their demographic.
There was a lengthy discussion of this article on Photo.net (Edit, it was DP review: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1038&thread=28237267&page=1 but I must admit to not having read most of it). People, users of the Leica, defended it quite hard. I would suggest reading it, if you're interested.
I'm not denying that Leicas may have been PJ material at one point, but now? I don't think so. Seriously, their market has got to be non-pros and slow users. Not this guy.
The service may have been pants. But I don't think that's the issue. It's the camera. Just for the record, I know of leica Ms that are used in the hills, and I see them occasionally around oxford. Always by wealthy amateur men when they're new. When they're old there are old men, sometimes pros using them. This is just my experience. Chances of Leica thinking about war zones when they built this? Essentially nil. I honestly believe it must be almost none of their demographic.
There was a lengthy discussion of this article on Photo.net (Edit, it was DP review: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1038&thread=28237267&page=1 but I must admit to not having read most of it). People, users of the Leica, defended it quite hard. I would suggest reading it, if you're interested.
First you state the truth (in your last post) and now 'their market has got to be non-pros' and you 'honestly believe' when talking about demo-graphs (proof of demo-graph noticeably absent btw). Everything I've read in your post is anecdotal when you talk of Leica market penetration and use. If I'm wrong I think you better inform Joel Meyerowitz, Elliot Erwitt, and Sebastiao Saldago of this, its going to be news to them as well.
I would like to add this as well: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/19/germany.arts
I think its all interesting to read, but the bit about the famous images being produced from a leica in the very first paragraph disproves a lot of what you said about them being used in a conflict situation.
Dear God. My comments were off the cuff. Not based on extensive research, evidence or knowledge of Leica's market. Just on my observations and best guesses. I don't think any of you have much evidence of the opposite. A few professionals using leica now, or even the huge use of Leica in the past, when they were more state of the art does not mean they are extensively or predominantly used today in such a setting.
Nice, useful, constructive.
Several points here. When I said 'not an insult, the truth' I was really saying that about old, wealthy men and their propensity to purchase fancy things, not anything about the Leica in particular. Though it did read that way.
Two, my only observation is that Leica don't seem to be designing cameras for pro PJ any more, I mean, come on, a removable baseplate?! I don't think this is contentious, but you disagree, so it is. I have never stated that in the days of the M3 they were very serious tools, and as the modern ones share many of the 3's attributes it is tempting to think that they were designed for the same people, or suitable for the same people. I simply beg to differ, I don't think that the M8 was designed for particularly rough pro use, nor apparently are Leica up for supporting professionals. This seems to have been demonstrated consistently.
Back in the days of the M3 the M was pretty advanced. Nowadays, barring the electronics, much of the M design is throwback to the past. it's part of Leica's charm, but it doesn't enhance their usability in the digital age.
Like your previous post, you didn't need to explain how your argued in your previous post as you came across quite obviouslwo, my only observation is that Leica don't seem to be designing cameras for pro PJ any more, I mean, come on, a removable baseplate?! I don't think this is contentious, but you disagree, so it is.[/QUOTE]
Yes the baseplate is a throwback to the older M series bodies but you're a Mac user who should have an understanding of aesthetics and clean design which is something Leica wants to continue with. It does suck when everybody else is use to the simple side compartment with their Canons and Nikons but it does look like one of those touches Leica users will probably appreciate just like Mac users and the one button mouse.
Also I'd like to point out that I don't even like Leica, I just respect the brand. I'd never buy one myself. I prefer Contax myself only because they are okay with adding auto-focusing to their line of cameras.
Apple makes design decisions to facilitate function. The Leica base-plate is just a throwback. It adds no functionality and takes away for no reason. Even if apple make decisions which do limit functionality in some way (e.g. the dropping of the floppy drive) they have a vision, and a real reason for doing so. Some of Leica's decisions are nostalgia alone.
The Contax G were nice. But they're no longer made.
The Contax G were nice. But they're no longer made.
We disagree here. Jobs, Ive et al simply specify different functions to those which we have chosen. They build the best computers to do what they want them to. Do they want to change graphics cards, no?
Anyway, on the Leica thing, I can't see how a working pro would want the aesthetics of a removable bp.
iMac for example: no cords, easy setup, all in one (less hassle). It's not entirely aimed at people who desire form over function but mostly at people who desire ease of use and simplicity.. (This is slightly OT though..)
As I said, Jobs, Ive et al make computers as they think they should be, to be used as they think people should use them. The typical PC is ugly, big and adds nothing by being so, for most people. The majority upgrade nothing and curse the bigness of the piece. The iMac is so much better.
I don't care about what they think. If I'm still using a Mac it's because of the lack of commercial consumer applications for Solaris and Linux.
The Cube was my first (and only) Mac, so I was dazzled by its coolness, but then I learned from its impracticalities. Apple offers nothing for me, so I'm stuck with it. As things go, I might get a "cheap" used air-cooled dual core G5 when I can't stand the sluggishness any more (even if it has the stupid optical bay).
The Cube was my first (and only) Mac, so I was dazzled by its coolness, but then I learned from its impracticalities. Apple offers nothing for me, so I'm stuck with it. As things go, I might get a "cheap" used air-cooled dual core G5 when I can't stand the sluggishness any more (even if it has the stupid optical bay).
leighonigar - Good points man, from what that article said and what you deduced shooting from the cuff... Leica might have just left the serious use market and is targeting frolicking in the hills in your over-priced under-performing SUV.
I have an m8, bought last Christmas.
I am not a wealthy middle aged man, professional photographer, or anything like that.
I own DSLR's and compacts, but which is the one I enjoy taking out the most??? The M8 by far. It is a joy to use due to its simplicity. There are not buttons and functions everywhere, but is just basic.
The pictures are fantastic and I honestly cannot see the reason for me to upgrade for quite a few years.
Ok - I can fully understand the Iraq comments, and also Leica has had a lot of problems with this camera.
Yes, you can buy better Nikons and Canons [I have both] - however the size, ergonomics, discreetness, aesthatics, lenses all add up for me to be the camera I use most of the time.
People say PC's are better than macs - they are in most cases, so why do you buy a mac? I buy macs for the user experience - that is why I love the m8!
Cheers
I am not a wealthy middle aged man, professional photographer, or anything like that.
I own DSLR's and compacts, but which is the one I enjoy taking out the most??? The M8 by far. It is a joy to use due to its simplicity. There are not buttons and functions everywhere, but is just basic.
The pictures are fantastic and I honestly cannot see the reason for me to upgrade for quite a few years.
Ok - I can fully understand the Iraq comments, and also Leica has had a lot of problems with this camera.
Yes, you can buy better Nikons and Canons [I have both] - however the size, ergonomics, discreetness, aesthatics, lenses all add up for me to be the camera I use most of the time.
People say PC's are better than macs - they are in most cases, so why do you buy a mac? I buy macs for the user experience - that is why I love the m8!
Cheers