Apple don't do usability surveys of their users.
And the grey icons is a plus/minus depending on your point of view. it is less distracting.
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Why doesn't Apple release their Beta to the general public?
- Thread starter Mad Mac Maniac
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Apple don't do usability surveys of their users.
And the grey icons is a plus/minus depending on your point of view. it is less distracting.
Comparing a beta testing program for OSX to Windows is apples to oranges. Windows is on 9 out of 10 machines out there and Microsoft is primarily a Software Company so they had better get it close to right as possible the first launch (especially since Vista).
And given Apple's revenue stream... OSX devices are a drop in the bucket so why would they invest resources in a public beta program? Especially when they can have developers pay to test it for them.
And given Apple's revenue stream... OSX devices are a drop in the bucket so why would they invest resources in a public beta program? Especially when they can have developers pay to test it for them.
I believe that the main reason why they do not release their OS betas to the public is because these betas contain a lot of bugs and issues and they do not want ignorant users to think that the final product will contain these bugs.
They release it only to developers because developers (real ones, not individuals who just purchase the license so that they can just show off having the latest OS on their Apple device) know what to look for and they are developing applications for the OSX platform.
They release it only to developers because developers (real ones, not individuals who just purchase the license so that they can just show off having the latest OS on their Apple device) know what to look for and they are developing applications for the OSX platform.
No, not just anyone can download Mountain Lion. If you're not part of the Developer Program, you don't have any access to it from Apple's website either. Perhaps your memory is slipping? You certainly didn't just download it from the main consumer-facing site, because it doesn't exist there. The only place you can get a legitimate copy is from developers.apple.com. Not exactly for the general public.
jW
Nope. The reason there's a DP in all the releases is cause it stands for Developer Preview, not Random Consumer Preview. You might have downloaded the Messages beta that they have on the ML section of the site but you don't have a full copy of a DP of ML unless you got it from the developer site or an outside site. Either way you didn't get it right from the main Apple site.
Apple DID release a public beta when OS X first came out. But that was back when the GUI totally changed.
But this kind of scheme is useless now, especially since system updates are in place and pretty much 99.9% of people use their Macs while on the internet. And DPs are meant for developers wanting to take advantage of the new APIs, nothing more. They are not stable for the general public and by the time they are, Apple would rather just release it and make adjustments via system updates for the rest of its lifespan.
And running preview software is not enjoyable. You go from having a nice computer with your nice iTunes library, nice Safari bookmarks, with all your applications setup correctly, to having a computer that you have to reset every month or week because you either have to clean wipe, or things get messed up in the upgrade path. It's too much work just to be able to use a few new features that aren't even stable enough to begin with.
Windows 8 had to be a consumer preview. Throwing something out like that on release day wasn't going to be amusing to people. People need to make up their mind now whether they'll be sticking with 7, or upgrading in exchange of pretty much losing all compatibility with everything.
But this kind of scheme is useless now, especially since system updates are in place and pretty much 99.9% of people use their Macs while on the internet. And DPs are meant for developers wanting to take advantage of the new APIs, nothing more. They are not stable for the general public and by the time they are, Apple would rather just release it and make adjustments via system updates for the rest of its lifespan.
And running preview software is not enjoyable. You go from having a nice computer with your nice iTunes library, nice Safari bookmarks, with all your applications setup correctly, to having a computer that you have to reset every month or week because you either have to clean wipe, or things get messed up in the upgrade path. It's too much work just to be able to use a few new features that aren't even stable enough to begin with.
Windows 8 had to be a consumer preview. Throwing something out like that on release day wasn't going to be amusing to people. People need to make up their mind now whether they'll be sticking with 7, or upgrading in exchange of pretty much losing all compatibility with everything.
It's interesting you say that as the only compatibility issues I've had with Windows 8 so far is iTunes and a few games off Steam. All my other software and hardware works just fine. I certainly haven't lost compatibility with everything, in fact, now I think about it, I don't think anyone has.
So how did you come up with that bizarre conclusion?
Because Microsoft is pushing for you to only get Metro apps and Microsoft Office. It's not visually pleasing to the eye to have those ugly little icons everywhere in square boxes.
You still haven't answered my question. All you have done there is state the obvious (Microsoft is trying to sell software) and add an opinion (you don't like Metro). Have you even used Windows 8?
Wait there a minute. I LOVE Metro. You have no idea how much I'm really enjoying those apps. A breath of fresh air was a OS that really needed it.
What I'm saying is that there is SOME compatibility, but it's not what you want in that new environment. It's like using iOS, but then having a messenger app on the side of the screen with the OS X interface.
Okay. If you say so. I'm pretty sure I know where I got it from. Haven't checked but the first dev preview was downloadable from Apple's official site. I'm pretty sure I'd know if I had the messages app on Lion.
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Although now of course it's asking for login. It used to be at the bottom of the info page. On the right was Messages Beta and on the left was download ML. Not sure where through the betas it was taken down, havent checked for a while... Maybe it was a mistake and I got it before they realized it? That's been known to happen. Buddy got an iOS version for an old iPhone (2.something) that wasn't ever really realeased during a restore one time. It was so jacked up he restored again and it downloaded a correct version
I highly doubt Apple would leave a large, almost 4 GB file on the main preview page for ML. I really don't want to go back and forth with you on this. It's a Developer Preview, you are not a registered developer, so you didn't get it from Apple. Like I said before, you can get it from a million sites from people who upload the DMG, but if you aren't a Mac developer you didn't get it from Apple.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
The only beta of Mac OS X I've used was the Mac OS X 10.0.0 Public Beta. I think it was available for $9.99, and it had a note on the back that said something like, "Thanks for helping us make the world's most advanced desktop operating system." It was amazing, though extremely slow.
While I think that having public betas again could help, I think the other issue is whether Apple even listens to the feedback they get now. If they're not listening now, getting a lot more feedback won't help. In my case I have been a registered developer with Apple for many years (way before the official iOS and Mac developer programs), and I still have my log-in credentials in place; however, I have never been able to log in to bugreport.apple.com, which is odd because my Apple ID works everywhere else. It's not that I receive an error that I am not allowed to log-in; it's just that nothing happens when I try logging in. I e-mailed and called Apple's developer support and they have never responded to me. I'm not sure if they are more responsive to paid members of the development programs. But I also notice they don't even follow up on more general feedback for their web-site. If you look at apple.com/science, you can see they are still advertising Leopard and Mac Pros that are two generations old. I submitted feedback about this that was never acted on. I also submitted feedback on Apple's grammatical errors in iTunes and on their site that was never acted on (Apple never uses direct address commas, e.g., "Welcome Mark," and they often use excessive commas where they're not needed). The only feedback I've ever submitted that may have been acted on was when I sent feedback regarding the MacBook Air page that listed it having the wrong graphics card. However, it's likely they noticed it internally and never looked at my feedback.
Anyhow, my point is that Apple may not be a company that responds to feedback well regardless of how much it gets. I've been trying to get them to fix Bluetooth File Exchange in Lion and at version 10.7.4, it's still not fixed, and I'm not even expecting it to be fixed in Mountain Lion.
While I think that having public betas again could help, I think the other issue is whether Apple even listens to the feedback they get now. If they're not listening now, getting a lot more feedback won't help. In my case I have been a registered developer with Apple for many years (way before the official iOS and Mac developer programs), and I still have my log-in credentials in place; however, I have never been able to log in to bugreport.apple.com, which is odd because my Apple ID works everywhere else. It's not that I receive an error that I am not allowed to log-in; it's just that nothing happens when I try logging in. I e-mailed and called Apple's developer support and they have never responded to me. I'm not sure if they are more responsive to paid members of the development programs. But I also notice they don't even follow up on more general feedback for their web-site. If you look at apple.com/science, you can see they are still advertising Leopard and Mac Pros that are two generations old. I submitted feedback about this that was never acted on. I also submitted feedback on Apple's grammatical errors in iTunes and on their site that was never acted on (Apple never uses direct address commas, e.g., "Welcome Mark," and they often use excessive commas where they're not needed). The only feedback I've ever submitted that may have been acted on was when I sent feedback regarding the MacBook Air page that listed it having the wrong graphics card. However, it's likely they noticed it internally and never looked at my feedback.
Anyhow, my point is that Apple may not be a company that responds to feedback well regardless of how much it gets. I've been trying to get them to fix Bluetooth File Exchange in Lion and at version 10.7.4, it's still not fixed, and I'm not even expecting it to be fixed in Mountain Lion.
I think he’s yanking our chain. On day one there was never a download link for the public - their was for Messages, and maybe a link to developer.apple.com, but I was there the day it was announced and there was nothing that indicated the public could have downloaded it - trust me I would have downloaded it.
You have to be a registered developer - and the way I understand it, they only allow downloading via the MAS via a redemption code. It’s been that way since it was publicly available.
As far as comparing the DP with Microsofts consumer previews - remember that Microsoft sells it’s operating system very differently than Apple does. Microsoft kinda has to do what it does since it licenses it’s OS on a large number of systems and it’s goal is getting adoption by people in large numbers in different situations. Remember, MS has to get adoption in large businesses and enterprises where OS deployment occurs in large numbers. Apple doesn’t have to face this issue so much since their hardware is far more homogenized. Apple’s goal with the DP is to ensure that DP’s get exposed for compatibility and to expose them to new API’s. It isn’t to show off the new OS and to acclimate end users to it’s features. Apple uses it’s keynotes to sow off what it want’s to and limits exposure. They are very minimalistic with their feedback. If they listen to anybody it’s developers who know what’s going on. They are interested in feedback for the technical feedback for compatibility (for stuff that Apple cannot test) - not for the average Joe user. When Apple sells it’s OS, they use their marketing machine and the Price to incentives upgrading - which if there is any history here - it’s not by selling flashy features like MS.
Most people believe it or not, do not buy Windows in retail - their goal is to make sure they reduce the blowback long before it’s released so that they can get deployment. Their isn’t any real privacy or secrecy with Windows - MS has to talk to enterprises and business anyhow to get deployment started. Consumers will adopt it when they get a new computer (just like with the Mac).
In short - Apple doesn’t have to worry about the deployment that MS does since they don’t sell their OS the same way. Apple does have to sell it to consumers, but they don’t need their DP’s to do that, they can market it and practically sell it for nothing. MS has a much harder sell since most of their sales are not directed at consumers but rather to other entities that have much bigger demands. It’s about who has the power - MS doesn’t have much of a choice but to make things public - it’s already going to anyway, but they have a much harder sell since they have to sell licenses for deployment to non consumer entities. Their goal for their previews is to get consumers to demand that vendors deploy current Windows (instead of what happened with Vista where people universally downgraded). Apple is interested in getting developers interested in supporting the OS and making sure it works. Apple will handle the marketing to consumers and getting people to upgrade. But Apple doesn’t have to sell their OS to enterprises and hardware vendors first and foremost - they sell to end users and they don’t need a buggy DP to do that. If anything the DP being buggy gives end users a bad impression of things.
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Because apple know if they're beta is installed by people who dont have a clue what theyre doing and it messes their machines up, then the internet and news will be awash with stories that apple have maliciously damaged their machines.....
Uninformed apple users tend to be a lot more pathetic about bad stuff than most people
Uninformed apple users tend to be a lot more pathetic about bad stuff than most people
They listen to some extent. They don't reply to users, and they don't always agree
Actual bug reports (i.e. things where it's clear to anyone that the software is misbehaving, as opposed to enhancement requests and opinion-based things like icon colours) are most likely to get acted on. Feature requests less so. They implement a system where the more people file radars about something, the higher its priority to be looked at but it's still not a public voting system: you can't make Apple do anything that doesn't fit in with their grand vision for the platform.
That's odd. Have you tried making a new dev account (a free one) and trying to log in with that? The free accounts can file bugs too.
The sorts of things I've had acted on are things like a bug where the Xcode 4 Interface Builder was laggy under some circumstances. I posted a video and a sample file that had the problem, and they got it fixed in a future version. That kind of bug (specific in scope, reproducible, with supplied sample data to reproduce the problem) gets attention.
Have you read about the Windows 8 Previews? People were ticked because there was no way to downgrade, even though it's clearly not for production machines. That's why later betas had to be burned to a disc or put on a USB drive to be installed.