Why is the highest *retail* M3 Max Macbook Pro SSD capacity 1TB?

[Spanky Deluxe]

@Spanky Deluxe @masotime

My sister somehow lost/forgot her log in to her Apple ID and she lost about 3 years worth of photos which were her kids photos etc. I know that’s an extreme scenario but that’s the one i refer to. The same scenario could happen to people who had their phone stolen as well.

My other issue from my understanding is that apple markets its iCloud service as a sync service and not a back up? So its no obligation to be responsible for our data?

At present i use iCloud for documents, desktop and photos and i currently keep my docs (50GB) saved on local drive and then i keep my photo library stored in the cloud but downloaded locally on an external drive. My plan is my next mac will be 2TB so i can keep everything downloaded on one machine and then one external drive to back that up.

I think Most young people (early 20’s) must have many GB of video and photo due to all their selfies and recording of daily life

Not to be harsh on your sister but there are usually a number of ways to get back into an Apple ID if you've forgotten your password. If you're prone to forgetting passwords then having it on your local computer might not be that helpful as the standard now is for Apple's computers to encrypt their hard drives so if you forget your password, you can't get back in and the data is 'lost' (although you can use things like Apple ID to get back in).

My point though was that 1TB is more than enough for most people. It's more space than you think unless you start factoring in high bandwidth 4k video. Photos take up next to no space. Short video clips don't take up *that* much. 1TB is *more* than enough for most personal users and almost certainly for most professional users so it's completely adequate to put that on a machine like this. If you need more space, you'll know you need more space and can spec for it.

 

[JamesMay82]

Not to be harsh on your sister but there are usually a number of ways to get back into an Apple ID if you've forgotten your password. If you're prone to forgetting passwords then having it on your local computer might not be that helpful as the standard now is for Apple's computers to encrypt their hard drives so if you forget your password, you can't get back in and the data is 'lost' (although you can use things like Apple ID to get back in).

My point though was that 1TB is more than enough for most people. It's more space than you think unless you start factoring in high bandwidth 4k video. Photos take up next to no space. Short video clips don't take up *that* much. 1TB is *more* than enough for most personal users and almost certainly for most professional users so it's completely adequate to put that on a machine like this. If you need more space, you'll know you need more space and can spec for it.

Yeah she’s not very tech minded but yes im not sure how she ended up how she did and I only found out about it months after it happened.

I get what you’re saying but myself and wife are just consumers and we both have 800 gig photo libraries but it is down to lots of videos and recently using the iPhone in 4k mode. I.e. a day at Disney videos take up just over 15 gigs and then when kids were younger of learning to walk and day to day stuff we used up loads of space. I‘m just guessing but I’d presume other families are similar? and even more so the younger generation who are constantly filming everything.

My main point is that your back up strategy is correct with keeping it local but i think there are lots of people replying on the cloud which is putting their data at risk… albeit i think you would be very unlucky for that to happen.

 

[JamesMay82]

I agree - that's why I think 1TB is actually fine. Usually if you are serious about large amounts of storage there are lots of external solutions. 4TB, 8TB is more of a luxury option IMO, as in having an outsized budget to spend...

i think i might be getting a bit weird about it all lol. But I currently have to run my machine off externals and its always pain if i forget the external.. usually I want to view family photos or videos on my laptop and I’ve left the external upstairs in the office.. plus you have to be careful you don’t know the drive when its plugged in.

 

[masotime]

i think i might be getting a bit weird about it all lol. But I currently have to run my machine off externals and its always pain if i forget the external.. usually I want to view family photos or videos on my laptop and I’ve left the external upstairs in the office.. plus you have to be careful you don’t know the drive when its plugged in.

I think a multi-pronged approach here is ideal then in this case. Assuming "viewing" = not dealing with trying to edit 200GB+ ProRES files, the cloud (as a syncing solution) is the most convenient way of viewing photos and videos. This should be paired with a physical backup as well - you just need a program that backs up incrementally e.g. every day from your main copy of the data (could be cloud folder, could be external drive). It's why I was looking into Borg - an automated, incremental backup is ideal, and it isn't tied to any provider (it's self hosted from what I read)

Otherwise, probably the best solution here is a NAS - so you own the "cloud" that you are using - basically store it physically in your home with convenient and fast local LAN access (or remote, I'm sure many NAS solutions have options for that).

 

[Mac mini power user]

I think a multi-pronged approach here is ideal then in this case. Assuming "viewing" = not dealing with trying to edit 200GB+ ProRES files, the cloud (as a syncing solution) is the most convenient way of viewing photos and videos. This should be paired with a physical backup as well - you just need a program that backs up incrementally e.g. every day from your main copy of the data (could be cloud folder, could be external drive). It's why I was looking into Borg - an automated, incremental backup is ideal, and it isn't tied to any provider (it's self hosted from what I read)

Otherwise, probably the best solution here is a NAS - so you own the "cloud" that you are using - basically store it physically in your home with convenient and fast local LAN access (or remote, I'm sure many NAS solutions have options for that).

I second this option. A NAS is the best option if you don't trust the cloud, don't want to drag your external storage with you, and have internet access when you need the files, even if it takes some time to set up. I'm personally not very fond of storing all my data on the same drive as my OS and programs.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the cloud. I have never suffered data or account access loss in my twelve years of using OneDrive, Google Drive, and iCloud. At my university, I use SharePoint and OneDrive as part of Microsoft 365.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

No doubts a NAS is best coupled with a cloud backup on top. But we’re getting pretty niche here. For the vast majority of people, including most people using these laptops for work, 1TB and iCloud is more than enough.

Personally, I now go for the overkill solution because I lost all my data in 2012 when the hard drive with all my personal data on in my Mac Pro failed. At the time I was waiting for hard drives for my first NAS come into stock. Luckily I got back the bulk of my photos since I had them in full quality on my iPad but I still lost about a year’s worth of photos as well as the vast majority of my personal documents. That really stung.

I currently use iCloud for personal stuff with all full originals and data stored on my main Mac’s hard rive and OneDrive for all the business stuff which I again store locally too. Then it all syncs to my home NAS via TimeMachine and OneDrive separately also backs up to the NAS. Once I can get 1Gbit up/down at both home and work, I’m thinking of getting a second NAS to store in the office and sync the two machines for more redundancy.

 

[mikethebigo]

Apple Stores always stock a hidden higher end config with more storage. You kind of have to discover it from the online store by customizing to the exact right config.

Edit: for the 14" MBP, it's the M3 Max 16/40, 64 GB RAM, and 2 TB SSD. That is available for me at local stores today.

 

[saturnotaku]

I agree - that's why I think 1TB is actually fine. Usually if you are serious about large amounts of storage there are lots of external solutions. 4TB, 8TB is more of a luxury option IMO, as in having an outsized budget to spend...

Even people I know who need to edit files on the go just use external storage solutions. While they would consider larger built-in drives to be helpful, they would rather have their machines come with more unified memory so they can more easily work on large projects. They have no issues carrying dongles, and the prices of external SSDs have fallen dramatically so it's not a huge deal to them needing to plug something in if they're in a pinch.

 

[mecloud]

Apple’s upgrade from 1tb to 4tb internal: $1,000. A Samsung 990 Pro NVMe 4tb SSD in a Thunderbolt 4 enclosure: less than $400. Speed of this external configuration is just under 3,000mb/sec both read and write. You can literally buy two of these and still spend a couple hundred $ less than what Apple charges to upgrade the internal to 4tb.

 

[Beau10]

Apple’s upgrade from 1tb to 4tb internal: $1,000. A Samsung 990 Pro NVMe 4tb SSD in a Thunderbolt 4 enclosure: less than $400. Speed of this external configuration is just under 3,000mb/sec both read and write. You can literally buy two of these and still spend a couple hundred $ less than what Apple charges to upgrade the internal to 4tb.

That's the 2tb... the 4tb is twice the speed. Enclosures are a dime a dozen for this at about $15, could do this for $300 (though maybe the heatsink is necessary?).

SAMSUNG 990 PRO SSD 4TB PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280 Internal Solid State Hard Drive, Seq. Read Speeds Up to 7,450 MB/s for High End Computing, Gaming, and Heavy Duty Workstations, MZ-V9P4T0B/AM, Black

Reach max performance of PCIe® 4.0*. Experience longer- lasting, opponent blasting speed. The in-house controller's smart heat control delivers our best power efficiency while maintaining ferocious performance that always keeps you at the top of your game. *PCIe 4.0’s best theoretical sequential ...

www.amazon.com

 

[mecloud]

That's the 2tb... the 4tb is twice the speed. Enclosures are a dime a dozen for this at about $15, could do this for $300.

SAMSUNG 990 PRO SSD 4TB PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280 Internal Solid State Hard Drive, Seq. Read Speeds Up to 7,450 MB/s for High End Computing, Gaming, and Heavy Duty Workstations, MZ-V9P4T0B/AM, Black

Reach max performance of PCIe® 4.0*. Experience longer- lasting, opponent blasting speed. The in-house controller's smart heat control delivers our best power efficiency while maintaining ferocious performance that always keeps you at the top of your game. *PCIe 4.0’s best theoretical sequential ...

www.amazon.com

The 4tb 990Pro is rated at up to 7450mb/sec read speed. But the limitation is the enclosure. A Thunderbolt 4 enclosure (about $100 on Amazon for the Acasis ones I‘m using) gives about 3,000mb/sec read-write. A “$15 enclosure” will be USB-C, and will limit the read/write speeds to a bit under 1,000mb/sec with that same Samsung 990 Pro SSD. Yes I tested all of this very recently.

 

[Beau10]

The 4tb 990Pro is rated at up to 7450mb/sec read speed. But the limitation is the enclosure. A Thunderbolt 4 enclosure (about $100 on Amazon for the Acasis ones I‘m using) gives about 3,000mb/sec read-write. A “$15 enclosure” will be USB-C, and will limit the read/write speeds to a bit under 1,000mb/sec with that same Samsung 990 Pro SSD. Yes I tested all of this very recently.

Sorry, I haven't put one of these together so unsure why the limitation is there. If the limitations are 10GB and 40GB throughput respectively for the enclosure tech, why is the speed of this gimped so much?

EDIT: NVM, I see my mistake. 40Gb/s (little b) is roughly 5000 MB/s.

Still is pretty great performance but it would have been awesome to get the same as internal.

Is it correct to assume there is no difference in performance between the 4TB and 2TB? I was thinking about picking up the latter to store games on.

 

[mecloud]

Is it correct to assume there is no difference in performance between the 4TB and 2TB? I was thinking about picking up the latter to store games on.

I have one Samsung 2tb 980Pro, and the speed in the same Thunderbolt enclosure that I have several 4tb Samsung 990Pros in is virtually identical. Both drives are faster than the limitation of the Thunderbolt 4 enclosures.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I thought an NVME TB3 enclosure when I got my Mac Studio and put the 2TB drive that I’d had in my old Mac Pro in there but it’s pretty unreliable and cuts out all the time. Not a cheap external enclosure or anything; it was £130. It’s an Orico one. I specifically didn’t cheap out but it’s basically useless to me as it disconnects. I haven’t needed the space anyway as if stuff isn’t on my main drive, I’ll use my NAS but I thought it’d be nice for occasional extra scratch space etc. I don’t know if it’s just a bad enclosure or the Intel SSD just doesn’t work in an enclosure but for whatever reason, it’s just not a great experience.

 

[mecloud]

I thought an NVME TB3 enclosure when I got my Mac Studio and put the 2TB drive that I’d had in my old Mac Pro in there but it’s pretty unreliable and cuts out all the time. Not a cheap external enclosure or anything; it was £130. It’s an Orico one. I specifically didn’t cheap out but it’s basically useless to me as it disconnects. I haven’t needed the space anyway as if stuff isn’t on my main drive, I’ll use my NAS but I thought it’d be nice for occasional extra scratch space etc. I don’t know if it’s just a bad enclosure or the Intel SSD just doesn’t work in an enclosure but for whatever reason, it’s just not a great experience.

That sounds like a possibly defective/problem enclosure and/or SSD.

One possibility: the SSD is perhaps overheating? Did the enclosure come with heatsink pads to thermally couple the SSD to the (hopefully metal) case? Assuming it’s a Thunderbolt enclosure, you should be able to read SMART data including errors and temperature.

I’ve only recently starting using the Acasis TB4 enclosures and Samsung 990Pro SSD’s, but in hours of long-runtime testing and using them to DJ music videos 4-5 hours at a time, so far I’ve had zero issues.

The one SSD enclosure I tested recently that *did* have a disconnection problem: an OWC unit. It worked okay until starting any kind of data transfer, and within seconds of starting one it would eject itself. That was Thunderbolt 3, and fortunately since purchased through Amazon the refund process was immediate (I‘ve had issues with OWC themselves in the recent past).

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

That sounds like a possibly defective/problem enclosure and/or SSD.

One possibility: the SSD is perhaps overheating? Did the enclosure come with heatsink pads to thermally couple the SSD to the (hopefully metal) case? Assuming it’s a Thunderbolt enclosure, you should be able to read SMART data including errors and temperature.

I’ve only recently starting using the Acasis TB4 enclosures and Samsung 990Pro SSD’s, but in hours of long-runtime testing and using them to DJ music videos 4-5 hours at a time, so far I’ve had zero issues.

The one SSD enclosure I tested recently that *did* have a disconnection problem: an OWC unit. It worked okay until starting any kind of data transfer, and within seconds of starting one it would eject itself. That was Thunderbolt 3, and fortunately since purchased through Amazon the refund process was immediate (I‘ve had issues with OWC themselves in the recent past).

Yeah, unfortunately, I didn't use the drive in the time I could still have refunded it on Amazon. It looks fine when I connect it but then later it's just disappeared. It does have thermal pads in and I did use them but I don't that's the problem. It's been doing this when just left alone not doing any data transfers. But I've had use of it so rarely that I've not really paid it much attention. Maybe I'll try it out a bit more when I get my MacBook Pro. The ports on my Mac Studio are kind of hard to access as it's on a shelf under my desk. Although my MacBook Pro is going to be sat on a shelf 95% of the time, I've got a TB4 dock that's going to be sat on my desk so all the ports are going to be much more accessible!

 

[JamesMay82]

I agree, this is a valid point - the Apple ID is a single point of failure for iCloud. Another thing is that I believe it's possible for someone to use your iPhone PIN to change your iCloud password, which is bad from a security standpoint.



Yeah it's more of a sync service, but I suspect even if they're not obliged, it's a really bad look for the company since iCloud is a paid service for a lot of people.

Still, I agree that it's a good idea to keep a personal backup. I don't think I'd want to buy a more expensive configuration just for integrated storage though - for me I'm happy with having multiple external backups plus a cloud backup. I was researching this recently... this article seems pretty good - https://www.backblaze.com/blog/the-3-2-1-backup-strategy/

Reddit also has a nice post on this - https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/wiki/backups/

The "Borg" option is interesting to me...

Just reading that link on black blaze and also found this which is interesting.

Don’t Get Trapped in iCloud

iCloud doesn't offer you the security of a true backup. Understand the difference to protect your important files.

www.backblaze.com

 

[masotime]

Just reading that link on black blaze and also found this which is interesting.

Don’t Get Trapped in iCloud

iCloud doesn't offer you the security of a true backup. Understand the difference to protect your important files.

www.backblaze.com

Yes it's best to have a separate backup solution on top of cloud sync. Cloud sync is really meant for convenience e.g your example of viewing photos from a different computer. It can be a sort of backup, but it's not really designed for that purpose.

 

[Sowelu]

Apple usually stocks 'ultimate' models (not maxed out, but a semi-custom bump up with a higher end or top chip, more RAM and SSD storage than base SKUs).

These models aren't showcased, but you'll see them available on the Apple Store site when you configure with these specs and it shows 'pick up same day', or similar.

I was expecting a 64GB/2TB M3 Max SKU just like with previous models (14" anyway), but I don't see any yet, so perhaps they will be added once initial orders and stock level out.

 

[mecloud]

My experiences are that the “bump ups” in RAM/SSD don‘t tend to be found in-stock in the Apple Stores within the first month or so of the release of new models. Highest configurations in the stores as of now are the 16/40 with 48gb RAM and 1TB SSD’s. About six months after the release of the M1’s, I did find the M1 Max with 64gb RAM and 4TB SSD’s were in stock at the time (April 2022).

 

[phrenologist]

I was expecting a 64GB/2TB M3 Max SKU just like with previous models (14" anyway), but I don't see any yet, so perhaps they will be added once initial orders and stock level out.

I picked up a Space Black 14" 16c/64G/2TB M3 Max with same day order from my local Apple Store on 11/11, and I see multiple stores with that config showing as available today in the SF Bay Area.

 

[G5isAlive]

Yeah that makes sense. It probably is the most popular.

I use my mac for video editing and I imagine with 16-cores and 1TB I cannot be too alone in this opinion, though.

It's not a matter of you being alone. It's a matter of the lowest common denominator... to get people that dont want to pay for 8 tb, dont have to. but you will have to pay big bucks to get 8 tb if you DO want it. How is this not a win win situation for Apple?

I bought the stock with 1 tb, but I have an 8 tb SSD raid configuration hooked up to it. Cost me less, gave me more flexibility. And the speed is not as good, but good enough.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

My experiences are that the “bump ups” in RAM/SSD don‘t tend to be found in-stock in the Apple Stores within the first month or so of the release of new models. Highest configurations in the stores as of now are the 16/40 with 48gb RAM and 1TB SSD’s. About six months after the release of the M1’s, I did find the M1 Max with 64gb RAM and 4TB SSD’s were in stock at the time (April 2022).

The 14 has a higher spec one in stores, the 16 doesn't.

 

[mecloud]

I picked up a Space Black 14" 16c/64G/2TB M3 Max with same day order from my local Apple Store on 11/11, and I see multiple stores with that config showing as available today in the SF Bay Area.

It’s interesting the higher configurations showed up for the 14” model first. I wonder if that means the smaller size is what‘s selling better? I’d think it would be the other way around, but maybe that’s just because of my own preference.

 

[mdhaus72]

I picked up a Space Black 14" 16c/64G/2TB M3 Max with same day order from my local Apple Store on 11/11, and I see multiple stores with that config showing as available today in the SF Bay Area.

It must be regional. Because according to the website, that configuration isn't available for pickup in my area until December 18-26.