Why I've lost respect for Apple

[PDE]

Frankly, it sounds as though you've simply had terrible luck with your Apple purchases. I've done Apple tech support for 25 years now, either for Apple, an Apple retailer, or in my own consulting business; and 99.99% of the installed base has much better experiences than yours.

I WILL partially agree with your perceived "denying known problems" thing. While many of the Genius personnel may not have the experience to know which items are problematic, the more experienced ones have learned to be VERY cautious about making public statements about them.

"Oh, yeah, a lot of them are like that" exposes the company to a huge liability both financially and in PR. The former simply because once acknowledged in any fashion, EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER who owns the cited product comes out of the woodwork demanding compensation - whether they experienced the "known problem" or not.

Believe me - in all these years, I've almost never seen anything experienced by a large number of customers not be addressed by a Service Extension program. The few exceptions are usually covered on a case by case basis. An example would be the G5s with liquid cooling. There have been somewhat more failures than anticipated; a surprising number of people have been given free repairs or even new computers, WITHOUT being covered by warranty or a Service Extension.

I think it would be better if they didn't say anything at all about the issues, rather than say that they've never ever seen them. And I agree that it is possible to get great service from Apple - I've received great service at times too. However, there are numerous issues that continue to go unresolved (****meaning that Apple actually fixes the cause rather than force customers to keep bringing them in for repair until the warranty expires****) that should have been resolved a long time ago. A few current examples would be:

- the macbook cracks on the palmrests - since the introduction of the MB
- macbook pro display yellowing lower 1/3 - since the beginning of LED displays
- the vertical beams of light from the bottom - since the intro of MBP penryn
- uneven illumination, significant backlight bleed- since the first generation of MBPs
-graininess of the display - pre-LED MBPs. Never addressed by Apple.
- Powerbook G4 lower ram slot failures that are outside the 'approved' serial number range for the repair extension (there are thousands if not many more people outside the range that have had the exact same problem, my mother being one of them) - for at least two years if not longer.

So I can't agree that Apple takes care of things the way they should. I can only say that I do believe that if you cause enough trouble, somebody will eventually take care of it all in a satisfactory way - but it can take a lot of time and persistance and most people will probably choose to live with the issues rather than spend all their valuable time dealing with Apple.

Sorry to hear about your problems with Apple, but you are not alone. I have had numerous issues with the "Geniuses", most of them I saw were salespeople who were promoted and promoted quickly. Those people are taught that if there is something that may be rectified by them by telling you that the product has no issues then they should do it. The real "Geniuses" that I had good relations with often clashed with the higher ups especially when they knew the problems were real but kept quiet.

The secret is to play Applecare against the Applestore. I have done it many times and usually a product specialist over the phone will overrule any decisions made at the store.

1st rule. NEVER take your product to the store BEFORE you call Apple and get a case id. This way there is some credit to your story and they don't see you as someone who is making up the problems you are having.

2nd rule. If you have issues with the Genius, call Apple back. Don't talk to the store manager as they are clueless when it comes to technical issues and will back the Genius EVERY time.

3rd rule. When you speak to Apple ALWAYS take notes on who you talked to . Most of the time when you get an APS, they will give you their direct number so that if there is any problems you can call them.

4th rule. NEVER give up if you are getting nowhere. Keep calling Apple back and use the same case number over and over, most of the time they will finally replace your machine. It's happened to me about 4 times for my personal machines and clients of mine (especially the new iMacs).

I hope this helps you and anybody else who has bought an Apple product that has a genuine problem with it and is getting swept under the rug.

thanks for the very strategic advice. It must have taken a lot of Apple trouble to distill it down so precisely...

 

[naftalim]

Your first paragraph already indicated to me where lies part of the problem, though one doesn't often hear corporate America compared to a Leninist Party. He must be turning over in his Mausoleum.

Apple is known for customer service and I highly doubt that they send out a memo to their employees stating "Pretend that every person that tells you they have a problem with our product that they are the first one you have ever seen or heard"

Apple even has a Support Discussion Board where people post their problems right in the open for all to see. I have seen many where people have said "Yes, I have/had the same problem" You don't see Apple yanking those threads.

So relax, its not a conspiracy.

I understand the constraints Apple places on their geniuses. They're caught between their employer, who much like a Leninist party enforces strict discipline and a unified rhetoric throughout the ranks,

 

[PDE]

Your first paragraph already indicated to me where lies part of the problem, though one doesn't often hear corporate America compared to a Leninist Party. He must be turning over in his Mausoleum.

Or Lenin is smiling that Apple could pull it off so well. I'm not going to bore anybody with a further playful analysis, but there are plenty of parallels and similarities. Here's just in: http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/06/13/apple.security.paranoia/

Apple is known for customer service and I highly doubt that they send out a memo to their employees stating "Pretend that every person that tells you they have a problem with our product that they are the first one you have ever seen or heard"

It's not a coincidence that geniuses pretty much always tell you that they've never seen the problem before. I mean, come on, their job is to help troubleshoot problematic computers! When my girlfriend walked in with her cracked macbook in the fall, after the problem had been know for many many months, they told her that they hadn't seen it before. They are lying. Period. The question is if this is Apple policy, or if its self-censorship for fear or repurcussions....and the answer to that i don't know. There probably is no memor that tells them to lie, but I'm sure there are guidelines about talking with customers about problems that have not been officially acknowledged by Apple.

Apple even has a Support Discussion Board where people post their problems right in the open for all to see. I have seen many where people have said "Yes, I have/had the same problem" You don't see Apple yanking those threads.

Actually, Apple is known to pull threads when they become overly critical. SOmetimes they let them stay, but they have frequently removed too.

So relax, its not a conspiracy.

I don't think it is a conspiracy. I think Apple runs a very tight ship and that low-paid geniuses are afraid to lose their jobs if they say too much. I don't expect geniuses to start giving me details about all the cases of a particular problem they've seen. What I do expect is to NOT be lied to. Better that they don;t say anything, than make you feel like you're unusual in having problems. That's all.

I understand the constraints Apple places on their geniuses. They're caught between their employer, who much like a Leninist party enforces strict discipline and a unified rhetoric throughout the ranks,

 

[jhakam]

Apple stores, unfortunately, are run by retail people. Retail management really doesn't give a damn about the customer. Their only real concern is to meet Apples bottom line requirements for the store. I recently was turned down to work at an Apple store and they did not provide me a reason why. But I believe it was because I had my own opinions on certain equipment the store was selling. When I asked it they had quota's the store manager responded by telling me they had goals. Goals in this case was a obvious substitute for quota.

If you want satisfaction from Apple when a problem comes up, call Apple directly and get a case number. If you can, get Apple to send you a replacement so you do not have waist your time going into a retail store. And if necessary become a pest until Apple acknowledges the problem. Although the retail experience is superior at the Apple stores, they are still retail people who are only telling you what they have been told to tell you.

 

[Anuba]

Yeah, the quality of their hardware is rather uneven. Striking industrial design comes at a price, and lack of design skills is probably not the only reason why other hardware manufacters make their stuff a little bigger and thicker with an extra fan or too. The first iMac G5 wowed everyone ("how did they do it?!"), but it had a failure rate of 31% so technically they didn't "do it". The Cube was fanless, which also wowed everyone, but they were less impressed when it cracked from the heat. And now we keep hearing about heat problems with the MBA, as well as gradient issues with the iMac 24" screen. And don't get me started on the extremely scratch-prone materials they choose, I mean the chrome back on iPods must have been used for the sole purpose of making even the most carefully handled iPod look like a post-NHL-playoffs ice rink after two days.

Plus, they sort of asked for trouble by making expensive machines that attract design-weary perfectionists who put on white gloves for the unboxing ceremony. I mean, Dell customers will return their machines if they break in half or explode, but with Mac customers it's more like "well, I'm on my 6th iMac now. The first had a microscopic scratch on the back, the second had fingerprints on the outside of the box, the third had one folded page corner in the getting started manual, on the fourth the clock wasn't set for my timezone, and the fifth was OK but the clerk who sold it to me had a mole".

In short, they design more for looks than durability and their customers are inherently nitpicky.

And they asked for trouble again when they came up with the name "genius", I mean people will expect anyone with that title to be a smart, knowledgeable and reasonably well-paid person, not some zitfaced McDonalds reject who makes less than a Walmart trainee.

 

[pecosbill]

Apple is far from perfect

Without fail, each time I've brought a macbook pro with a common problem to the genius bar,

Not sure you got many flames..... I seem to get a survey every time I make an appt with a genius. I dropped my 1g MB off this past Sat and there was a survey waiting for me at home. Fill it out. It might help.

That said, I have had a very poor experience with one of the stores here in Denver (Aspen Grove). I won't go back but then I don't have to. There's a new, smaller one that's closer (Park Meadows).

You're not alone with problematic Apple hardware either. There have been several class action suits settled in the public's favor for a reason. Alas, my lemon PMac G5 was never covered via an extended warranty even though it should have been. (the power supplies were excrement)

These days, I won't buy Apple hardware without AppleCare. When Apple's hardware cost more, it was much more reliable. Now that it's about the same, it isn't (from my view). AppleCare on my MB just paid for itself. Hasn't though on my MP (1g also which was bought in haste to replace the G5 that was supposed to last "forever"). Of course, the MP has plenty of time left to fail.