Why just 2GB?

[Tomorrow]

I sense a real chance for Apple's Air to come of age here:
reasonable price + reasonable/better performance (as compared to other ultra-portables)+ sweet form factor = a winner eh?

Sounds like a new MacBook Pro 13".

This dead horse has been beaten into the ground - the MacBook Air, in my opinion and that of many others, was not designed to be a primary computer for a moderate to power user. Yes, it would be nice if it were - if they could cram 4 Gb of RAM, two SSD's, a video card, FW800, an SD card reader, an optical drive, and the rest of the machine into a form factor roughly the thickness of an empty manilla folder, that would be swell. But they can't.

 

[Ruahrc]

I also don't think OLEDs will appear as computer displays for a long while yet. Costs aside, phosphor burn-in issues will prevent them from being practical as computer displays (as opposed to television) because the display on the computer is static a lot of the time with little changing. The lifetime of an OLED display will be far too short.

They work on things like TVs and cell phones because on TVs, the picture changes a lot thus the wear is more even, no specific elements of the screen will get burned in or worn out too fast. Cell phones, the display is only on for relatively short amounts of time compared to TVs or computer displays, and cell phones are devices designed to last only a couple of years anyways so a dying display won't hurt too bad on a $300 phone but a dying display on a $2500 laptop will be pretty bad.

Ruahrc

 

[Santabean2000]

Sounds like a new MacBook Pro 13".

This dead horse has been beaten into the ground - the MacBook Air, in my opinion and that of many others, was not designed to be a primary computer for a moderate to power user. Yes, it would be nice if it were - if they could cram 4 Gb of RAM, two SSD's, a video card, FW800, an SD card reader, an optical drive, and the rest of the machine into a form factor roughly the thickness of an empty manilla folder, that would be swell. But they can't.

I hear ya, but all I'm mentioning here is extra RAM - and that's distinctly possible.

On the 13"MBP side, all the other goodies you mentioned could run close if they axed the optical drive, (and kept the thicker shape too), but that is for another thread eh.

 

[arcangel6]

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I owned an ASUS 1000 that I upgraded to 2GB RAM and for kick through in a Samsung SSD. Sort of like putting a Porsche engine into a on of those old Hugos. While the performance was considerably enhanced it does not even come close to the new MBA (2.13GHz, 128GB SSD) I got last week. The notebook is the best out there for those needing what it offers, solid performance in a very easy to transport package. It is equally ridiculous to compare it to a MACBook Pro since it was meant for a different purpose. Having said that you will find it fairs better than any netbook would at the present time.

I should add that I also own an Aluminum MACBook 13 with the same 128G SSD and 4GB RAM. It is a great computer but a little too heavy. The same is true for my DELL XPS M1550 w/4G RAM and the Samsung 128G SSD running 32bit Vista though I forget which processor.

All three the new MBA, the MB13 and the DELL were great systems. I honestly could not perceive any performance differences.....though I much preferred the MACs. I am also not a poweruser or computer expert. I am NOT saying that performance differences did not exist. ONLY, that for my use I could not perceive them. I am not a gamer but I do a little video editing, lots of basic Photo editing, watch videos and web surf.

Lastly, I have not seen any of the reported screen problems (i.e. gray lines). They are either not there OR I simply cant see them. I would HIGHLY recommend the NEW new MBA w/2.13GHz, 128GB SSD if it fits your needs.

Regards,

Joe

I'm sorry but you're generalising here, suggesting it's nothing more than a netbook even though you haven't said so specifically. The MBA is VERY much more than just a netbook. Netbooks don't have Core Duo 2 2.13GHz processors in there or 128GB SSDs.

Aside from the OS, some of us use highly-intensive pro apps - for which 2GB is like straining your workflow at the leash. Would have cost them very little to solder a 4GB chip in there - I'd have preferred less of a discount to offset the extra cost if it meant a 4GB chip in there.

 

[Gruber]

Sounds like a new MacBook Pro 13". (...) if they could cram 4 Gb of RAM, two SSD's, a video card, FW800, an SD card reader, an optical drive, and the rest of the machine into a form factor roughly the thickness of an empty manilla folder, that would be swell. But they can't.

Yes, they can. It is entirely possible to stuff all the necessary ports, a good keyboard and screen, an SSD (one is enough, please!), 4GB and an SD card reader into a <3lbs package, and even throw in a Bluray drive (which I do not need). Look at the Vaio TT. But alas, it does not run OSX.

The MBP simply does not cut it. You are going to annoy people that want to buy a fully featured ultraportable, if you tell them to get something twice the weight and bulk.

The reason that the Air lacks so much functionality is not its compactness, but its specific design. The Air has not been built to be as portable as possible, but to look as thin as possible. Even if it meant to add unnecessary (empty!) bezels around screen and keyboard, to use a ridiculous video port and so on.

 

[aleksandra.]

Yes, they can. It is entirely possible to stuff all the necessary ports, a good keyboard and screen, an SSD (one is enough, please!), 4GB and an SD card reader into a <3lbs package, and even throw in a Bluray drive (which I do not need). Look at the Vaio TT. But alas, it does not run OSX.

The reason that the Air lacks so much functionality is not its compactness, but its specific design. The Air has not been built to be as portable as possible, but to look as thin as possible. Even if it meant to add unnecessary (empty!) bezels around screen and keyboard, to use a ridiculous video port and so on.

I guess it all comes to priorities. I would never want Apple to compromise basic comfort - screen size, keyboard - to stuck in as many features as possible. Air has been built to be light without compromising this. This "ridiculous video port" was also put on 17" MBP, which doesn't lack for space on the sides. Tapering and additional bezel around the screen are for looks (and for a trackpad to fit). Comparing it to an 11" thing is simply not fair.

 

[Gruber]

I would never want Apple to compromise basic comfort - screen size, keyboard - to stuck in as many features as possible. Air has been built to be light without compromising this. This "ridiculous video port" was also put on 17" MBP, which doesn't lack for space on the sides. Tapering and additional bezel around the screen are for looks (and for a trackpad to fit). Comparing it to an 11" thing is simply not fair.

The Vaio is even more compact without compromising on functionality. So why would the comparison be unfair?
If Apple hides the sides of the Air with these hideous tapering spoilers to optimize its air resistance and breadcuttingness, they are not improving its function, but are eating up the room for necessary ports.

It looks as if the Air is built to be looked at primarily from the side, to show off to onlookers. When I sit in front of it, I think: wasted space. As with cars, spoilers are a good reason for many people to buy, and I do not want to criticise you or anyone for liking them. I am not sore at the Air, but I am sore because the Air seems to be Apple's only idea about how to serve the ultraportable clientele.

BTW: Using proprietary ports is not better if Apple repeats this mistake with other models. For me, carrying the video adapters wherever I travel compromises my basic comfort when using the machine.

 

[anamznazn]

I have 2GB on my 15" MBP and it feels like it's enough. Would be great to have 4GB tho.

 

[BlizzardBomb]

Therefore, I see a new high end added to the MBA lineup.

2.13 GHz
4 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
New battery tech
OLED display

I would think this makes perfect sense. In the meantime, Apple sells the leftover boards and gives the Air a chance at low end pricing to sell better. I think the new high end will be priced as an upgrade luxury MBA for those who want ultra portability with ultra power for $2199 to $2499.

This theory makes perfect sense to me. I would expect it as early as next month in Jobs presentation to as late as November. Then we can all be happy and upgrade yet again!!!

The MBA battery is already built in and already lithium polymer. If the .5 hours they gained from the last revision was the silent bump to the new tech, there's nothing newer to go to yet.

 

[jav6454]

Light duty notebook. I hate the fact the memory is soldered in.

 

[Airforcekid]

I'm sorry but you're generalising here, suggesting it's nothing more than a netbook even though you haven't said so specifically. The MBA is VERY much more than just a netbook. Netbooks don't have Core Duo 2 2.13GHz processors in there or 128GB SSDs.

Aside from the OS, some of us use highly-intensive pro apps - for which 2GB is like straining your workflow at the leash. Would have cost them very little to solder a 4GB chip in there - I'd have preferred less of a discount to offset the extra cost if it meant a 4GB chip in there.

Im just saying dont buy a Mini to do a Mac Pro's job. Its a great computer for basic to light moderate use and that is what 2gb is meant for.

 

[gri]

motherboard

b/c  had spare motherboards left over

Which didn't prevent them from changing the main processor, did it? I was hoping for 4 G RAM and 256 G SSD (or HD) to ge a new laptop. The 4G is a deal breaker for me. My 5 year old PB G4 has 2 G Ram and I am not investing in something which is par to something 5 years old technically. I only hope that this is no indication of cycling the MBA out, I need a light computer for travel...

 

[bryng]

Which didn't prevent them from changing the main processor, did it? I was hoping for 4 G RAM and 256 G SSD (or HD) to ge a new laptop. The 4G is a deal breaker for me. My 5 year old PB G4 has 2 G Ram and I am not investing in something which is par to something 5 years old technically. I only hope that this is no indication of cycling the MBA out, I need a light computer for travel...

Well that's easily fixed. Just take a gig of RAM out of your G4 PB and then the Air will be a nice upgrade for you.

 

[gri]

Sounds like a new MacBook Pro 13".

This dead horse has been beaten into the ground - the MacBook Air, in my opinion and that of many others, was not designed to be a primary computer for a moderate to power user. Yes, it would be nice if it were - if they could cram 4 Gb of RAM, two SSD's, a video card, FW800, an SD card reader, an optical drive, and the rest of the machine into a form factor roughly the thickness of an empty manilla folder, that would be swell. But they can't.

Oh yes, they can. They just need to swap the 2 G chip with a 4 G chip, same size, no architectural change - and many of us would be happy. I have schlepped my MBP (2 G RAM) with me and am sick of its weight. On the other hand I use keynote for my presentations and keynote does not compress the files. So my presentations can become easily 500 MB (many graphics). Add to that the OS, the program and voila, the little sucker (MBP!) slows down with 2 G of RAM. A 256 SSD would make the deal perfect for me. In its current state - no.

 

[gri]

Well that's easily fixed. Just take a gig of RAM out of your G4 PB and then the Air will be a nice upgrade for you.

Hmm I should consider that...
Only, that PB is sitting in my closet as back up. Has a nice bigger 250 HD though, my MBP as a 120 GB (another reason I would liek a bigger HD or SSD in the MBA...)

 

[Tomorrow]

Oh yes, they can. They just need to swap the 2 G chip with a 4 G chip, same size, no architectural change - and many of us would be happy. I have schlepped my MBP (2 G RAM) with me and am sick of its weight. On the other hand I use keynote for my presentations and keynote does not compress the files. So my presentations can become easily 500 MB (many graphics). Add to that the OS, the program and voila, the little sucker (MBP!) slows down with 2 G of RAM. A 256 SSD would make the deal perfect for me. In its current state - no.

You just nailed this entire thread - that type of "heavy lifting" is not what the Air was necessarily designed for.

 

[Capt Crunch]

You just nailed this entire thread - that type of "heavy lifting" is not what the Air was necessarily designed for.

Perhaps not. The point remains, however, that it could do the heavy lifting if Apple could just be bothered to spend the extra $20.

It's like having a convertible that actually had a big trunk, but it was filled half-way with a non-removable iron girder. "Who cares?" you say, "A convertible isn't meant to have a large trunk." An yet it could be the only convertible that did have a large trunk if the designer spent an extra day on it.

 

[Gruber]

You just nailed this entire thread - that type of "heavy lifting" is not what the Air was necessarily designed for.

Aww, come on. The Air is no netbook. And giving presentations is really not heavy lifting, but exactly what a portable notebook should be designed for.

Three years ago, the processing power of the Air would have been considered sufficient for serious video processing, rendering and compiling. And now it is too small to fire up Keynote?

 

[Santabean2000]

Aww, come on. The Air is no netbook. And giving presentations is really not heavy lifting, but exactly what a portable notebook should be designed for.

Three years ago, the processing power of the Air would have been considered sufficient for serious video processing, rendering and compiling. And now it is too small to fire up Keynote?

Hah ah ah a, exactly!

It's capabilities are being artificially capped for no particular good reason, (cost can be passed onto the consumer, if they deem the need great enough then they should have the option).

Surely 4GB RAM is not too much to accommodate.

 

[Gruber]

It's capabilities are being artificially capped for no particular good reason

Does not make a lot of sense to me. Why would you needlessly want to cripple your premium line? CPU and gfx speeds are a little lower than in the current MBPs, but really not so much that it matters.

I guess that when the Air appeared, 2GB was more than good enough. Later on, Apple has not really bothered with an update, because it was busy with transferring the unibody design and battery into its bread-and-butter notebooks. The Air does not sell as well as the MBPs (and you guys send half of them back because of the screens).

There might be another reason that the Air is so neglected. Either its life runs out, and it is going to be replaced with something else (like Steve's 10in mystery device). Or Apple has been prepping a major revision, but did not get it done in time for the WWDC. In that case, we can expect something like a 4GB Air with 3G and 5-6h battery runtime pretty soon.

 

[Tomorrow]

And giving presentations is really not heavy lifting, but exactly what a portable notebook should be designed for.

If your presentation is a small file, yes. I replied to a poster who uses a 500 Mb presentation file with lots of graphics. That, by comparison, is "heavy lifting."

 

[eVolcre]

What kind of computer use profile would benefit with 4GB or RAM vs 2? I keep reading about RAM and how more is better but I don't think I've ever suffered with 2GB in my MBP. If programs run fine on 2GB will they run BETTER on 4? They still use the same amount of RAM as before right?

eV

 

[Santabean2000]

Can anyone confirm whether the Air has one or two RAM pieces in it.

I thought it was one, which would justify to some extent, why there is just 2GB in there. But I on inspection today in the store I checked out two different Airs and they both said (System Profiler) there were two 1GB pieces!

Two 2GB pieces are relatively cheap eh, surely they could be dropped in...

 

[aleksandra.]

Can anyone confirm whether the Air has one or two RAM pieces in it.

I thought it was one, which would justify to some extent, why there is just 2GB in there. But I on inspection today in the store I checked out two different Airs and they both said (System Profiler) there were two 1GB pieces!

Two 2GB pieces are relatively cheap eh, surely they could be dropped in...

RAM in Air is soldered on the logic board. It's 16 x 128 MB physically (8 on each side of the logic board), but these are connected by two channels (Core 2 Duo doesn't support more than 2). Step 17 and 18 of this teardown show them: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Air/598/3.

Edit: It's a revision A Air, but it's similar in B and C (even though the logicboard is completely different).

 

[jdechko]

The space on the logic board takes up similar to two dimms of 1 GB each. Apple could have used the same space for 4GB but chose not to. I would guess that the net cost for Apple would be about $15 to $20 more.

I think Apple delayed the new high end MBA because the 256 GB SSD wasn't ready. I think Apple planned to have the new high end be the low end. I think they used leftover boards for the low end now while waiting for new high end to be finalized. If one considers the Adamo, Sony and Lenovo competition, it makes perfect sense. Some of those have low end with 2 GB RAM and smaller SSD. And they have high-end with 4 GB RAM and larger SSD.

Therefore, I see a new high end added to the MBA lineup.

2.13 GHz
4 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
New battery tech
OLED display

I would think this makes perfect sense. In the meantime, Apple sells the leftover boards and gives the Air a chance at low end pricing to sell better. I think the new high end will be priced as an upgrade luxury MBA for those who want ultra portability with ultra power for $2199 to $2499.

This theory makes perfect sense to me. I would expect it as early as next month in Jobs presentation to as late as November. Then we can all be happy and upgrade yet again!!!

This kinda makes me think that the Air might be the first mac to go totally SSD with no traditional hard drive option. Also, it seems like with respect to the 1.8" Drive only, the SSD tech is progressing way faster than the mechanical drives are. As far as I know, a 2-platter drive can only go up to 240GB (2x120 platters). This is why the iPod classic had a decrease in capacity--it went from 2x80 to 1x120. But a 2-platter drive won't fit in the air, so 1x120 is the way to go for mechanical drives. But with the SSD, I am sure that the next stop will be either 256 GB or 192 (possible, but why).

Having said this, it's possible that we will see 1.86/2GB/128GB SSD for $1499 and 2.13/4GB/256GB SSD for $1799-2199, Mechanical Hard Drive dropped completely from the line.