Why Macs are better than PC's?

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I have never actually seen a virus since my bastard cousin in 1990 infected my Amiga while I was out. Then some 10 years after some interturd hacked my pc and destroyed the boot sectors. Then I moved to Macs and then Macs with Boot Camp. I never saw a virus in Boot Camp as I only use it for official games, no warez.

 

[flat five]

Ignoring we’re even talking about computers, I read the word ‘maximise' to mean as big as possible. Even if we take your definition it’s still worong.
Open text edit on a system that runs the old way. Type 4 lines of text. The window expands to more than the size needed for those 4 lines.

where is the word 'maximize' coming from though? that's not an apple term.. it's always been 'zoom', right?
or- the green button used to be the zoom button and it's now taken on double functionality with full-screen capabilities.

 

[ActionableMango]

OP,

If the kid is a PC gamer you are wasting your time. There is no conceivable way you will win that argument. For everything he even remotely cares about, the typical Windows PC is either better or far, far better.

Honestly I think Windows PC are largely better in most ways. I also love putting together my own PCs, yet here I am today with Macs as my only computers. The main thing for me is that I appreciate the hardware design and engineering. The cheesegrater Mac Pro especially is just a pleasure to look at, use, and work on. Everything I love about it:

• It's mostly tool-less. When I change video cards, I don't need a screwdriver because there's a covering plate instead.
• When I upgraded my CPU there were only three levers to pop with my finger, and the CPU tray was right on my desk ready to work on. A single tool and the heat sink/fan/power connectors all came off... no other tools needed, no cables to remove, all the screws were captured so they don't fall out anywhere.
• The incredible attention to detail. The unsightly cables from the power supply are hidden behind a plate. The empty bay in the optical cage has four screws waiting for the day you add another drive, so you don't need to get screws, you don't have to worry that the thread pitch might be wrong, and so that they are all uniform and look nice.
• The two screws for the PCIe card holding plate are spring loaded so you know when they're out, and once again, they are captured so you don't drop a screw into your computer somewhere and have to fish it out. Also they are thumbcrews so that you don't need a screwdriver.
• The HDD sleds. No cables! Don't need any tools to pop out a drive. Looks clean and nice. And, yet again, the screws are captured so they don't fall out into the case.
• Thick, anodized aluminum everywhere. Not just the front plate, not just the outside, but everywhere inside too. No cheap, thin steel that cuts your knuckles and oxidizes with your fingerprints everywhere.
• A design that is as free of cables as it can be.

This isn't all, I could go on and on (seriously), but I'm short on time. The following picture is worth a thousand words and sums up what I like about the Mac Pro vs the PC.

 

[flat five]

1. Terrible price to performance ratio
2. Soldered parts (CPUs and GPUs)
3. Lack of control/customization in OS X
4. Only one computer that supports any real expansion and its more than 3 years old

#2 is really important though because at the end of the day, as a consumer whos dropping thousands of dollars on a machine deserves to get what you pay for. And this is where even I have BIG problems with Apple;

I built a Hackintosh rig for roughly $1,300 USD and it performs better than an entry level new Mac Pro that costs $3,000 and comes with one giant limitation; No standard PCIe slots for GPU expansion. The nMP scores roughly 14,300 in Geekbench where as mine gets 18,000 (i7 4790k). Not only that, I've got 32gb of RAM as opposed to just 12gb and my GPU is a GTX 960 which beats even the dual D700 available for 'only' an additional $1,000 in the Mac Pro.

geekbench scores aren't an indicator of performance.. or not an indicator of user performance..
for example, can i type a document faster on a higher performance machine?
or what type of real world usage are you talking about when saying 'performance'? to me, it means how fast can i get work done and the biggest slowdowns i can come up with have nothing to do with geekbench scores.. UI, input devices, software design (functionality/conventions/etc), and a person's skills with said software seem to be the bottlenecks.

Now, as for subjective things in OS X, there are some BONEHEADED things that Apple does itself too;

1. Green button should have the option maximize instead of fullscreen and hiding the menu bar and dock!
2. Mouse Acceleration in Yosemite!? WTF?!
3. Launchpad rather useless, same stupid crap as Windows tiled menu (though neither forced)
4. Highlighting of files in Finder only adds a dot. VERY difficult to tell when compared to OS X 10.8 and older.
5. NO NATIVE TRIM SUPPORT?! (though finally fixed in El Capitan, but inexcusable to take this long)
6. Making apps go full screen takes WAY too long
7. Rootless in El Capitan is going to wreak havoc on control/customization in OS X. TotalFinder is already having complications

So yeah, it's not like Apple computers are without fault.

1. double click the title bar.. or option-click the green button.. or Window->Zoom.. or drag the window to desired size.
2. not sure what that means
3. don't use it ?
4. that's tagging now.. way more useful than the old highlighting.. also, it's dots because a file can have multiple tags.
5. idk
6. you can change the animation speed.
7. idk - i don't use totalfinder.

---
[EDIT] re: tagging/highlighting .
i like to think you can blame me personally for the addition of tagging instead of just highlighting.. it's a feature request i've made to apple a couple of times over the years.. that said, i imagine one of the apple people were just thinking the same thing as i and it was implemented because of them instead of my requests

another request i've submitted to apple is the ability to tag/note versions instead of the fairly information_less time machine style interface we're presented with now when viewing past versions of a document.. (just posting this part so down the road if this ability is implemented, i'll have more proof that i really did make the request (i suppose i could just post the emails though))

 

[CelestialToys]

OP rather than try and argue that Macs are better you'll probably be better off in showing an interest in his fancy gaming rig. This way you can probably escape the boring work convos between your wife and her boss while playing some fancy graphic game.
If the kid wants to argue just jokingly ask him if his PC has a light up Apple logo on the back.

 

[bladerunner2000]

geekbench scores aren't an indicator of performance.. or not an indicator of user performance..
for example, can i type a document faster on a higher performance machine?
or what type of real world usage are you talking about when saying 'performance'? to me, it means how fast can i get work done and the biggest slowdowns i can come up with have nothing to do with geekbench scores.. UI, input devices, software design (functionality/conventions/etc), and a person's skills with said software seem to be the bottlenecks.

Absolutely false.

Geekbench is a pretty solid indicator of a computers performance. And if the user is the bottleneck of any software, it has nothing to do with what the hardware will eventually be able to dole out at any given speed. If that were the case, then you're speaking of amateurs.

Regardless, it doesn't matter what you make of geekbench or other benchmarking applications. The fact remains:

A PC *WILL* get you way better hardware for much less the cost. This isn't even up for debate.

1. double click the title bar.. or option-click the green button.. or Window->Zoom.. or drag the window to desired size.
2. not sure what that means
3. don't use it ?
4. that's tagging now.. way more useful than the old highlighting.. also, it's dots because a file can have multiple tags.
5. idk
6. you can change the animation speed.
7. idk - i don't use totalfinder.

Seems like you're not a power user. Also, your green button suggestion is not a solution, it's a workaround, and a terrible one at that.

 

[MH01]

Viruses. Case closed.

Lol . Been a while since you used a windows machine.

 

[MH01]

OP , if he is a gamer, and knows his hardware, you are not going to win, he can build a machine that is cheaper and performs better, and that's all he thinks about.

Just argue that you do not game, are not interested in computers and want something that just works, and you dislike tinkering.

 

[flat five]

Absolutely false.

Geekbench is a pretty solid indicator of a computers performance. And if the user is the bottleneck of any software, it has nothing to do with what the hardware will eventually be able to dole out at any given speed. If that were the case, then you're speaking of amateurs.

amateurs argue about and base computer comparisons around geekbench scores. because they don't really have much else to base off of.. people concerned with working efficiently on a computer would put "higher geekbench score" at around #345 on list of things they would change in order to work faster.

i'm working this weekend.. you could literally quadruple my geekbench score right now and nothing would change.. finishing this thing will take me exactly the same amount of time regardless of my computer's geekbench score.

Regardless, it doesn't matter what you make of geekbench or other benchmarking applications. The fact remains:

A PC *WILL* get you way better hardware for much less the cost. This isn't even up for debate.

it's not up for debate with you because your determining factor in judging hardware is a geekbench score.. otherwise, it's entirely debatable.. (not a debate i'd like to have though.. mac hardware and pc hardware are both fine.. people do amazing stuff on both)

Seems like you're not a power user.

maybe not.. what's 'power user' mean to you?

Also, your green button suggestion is not a solution, it's a workaround, and a terrible one at that.

what are you talking about? a work around to what? the green button works as it's supposed to..

that you think something different should happen when you press it means jack squat..
i think you should be able to triple-click the desktop and it cleans up.. so it's a workaround, and a terrible one at that, for me to have to right-click-> Clean up..

do you see how goofy that sounds?

 

[bladerunner2000]

OP,

If the kid is a PC gamer you are wasting your time. There is no conceivable way you will win that argument. For everything he even remotely cares about, the typical Windows PC is either better or far, far better.

Honestly I think Windows PC are largely better in most ways. I also love putting together my own PCs, yet here I am today with Macs as my only computers. The main thing for me is that I appreciate the hardware design and engineering. The cheesegrater Mac Pro especially is just a pleasure to look at, use, and work on. Everything I love about it:

• It's mostly tool-less. When I change video cards, I don't need a screwdriver because there's a covering plate instead.
• When I upgraded my CPU there were only three levers to pop with my finger, and the CPU tray was right on my desk ready to work on. A single tool and the heat sink/fan/power connectors all came off... no other tools needed, no cables to remove, all the screws were captured so they don't fall out anywhere.
• The incredible attention to detail. The unsightly cables from the power supply are hidden behind a plate. The empty bay in the optical cage has four screws waiting for the day you add another drive, so you don't need to get screws, you don't have to worry that the thread pitch might be wrong, and so that they are all uniform and look nice.
• The two screws for the PCIe card holding plate are spring loaded so you know when they're out, and once again, they are captured so you don't drop a screw into your computer somewhere and have to fish it out. Also they are thumbcrews so that you don't need a screwdriver.
• The HDD sleds. No cables! Don't need any tools to pop out a drive. Looks clean and nice. And, yet again, the screws are captured so they don't fall out into the case.
• Thick, anodized aluminum everywhere. Not just the front plate, not just the outside, but everywhere inside too. No cheap, thin steel that cuts your knuckles and oxidizes with your fingerprints everywhere.
• A design that is as free of cables as it can be.

This isn't all, I could go on and on (seriously), but I'm short on time. The following picture is worth a thousand words and sums up what I like about the Mac Pro vs the PC.

This is a very disingenuous contribution to the thread. The cable management in that image you posted is definitely bad, but that could easily be fixed by spending literally 5 minutes of routing the cables through rubber grommets. Here is my Hackintosh build:

I used only ONE tool for the entire build from start to finish. A phillips screwdriver. I too, have drive sleds. My PSU has a hybrid mode of operation, the fan in it doesnt have to turn up until the system is at 20% load. My case is covered with sound isolating foam, to keep it quiet. The computer at idle is nearly completely silent, at full load it generates only a low hum. The perforated openings behind them have a dust filter so it remains dust free and clean on the inside.

But if you wanna see some really nice cable management, check out Jayz2cents PC build:

^^^Crazy how clean that is. Not my style of all of those fans and the case (I think its ugly)... but that is cable management from the gods.

Next, the innards definitely do look much cleaner in a cheesegrater mac pro compared to MOST PC builds. However, this is largely aesthetics and it will never be seen anyway with the side panels closed on the case.

I will however agree that the cheesegrater design of the Mac Pro case is REALLY well done and is in my top desktop top 5 favourite PC cases ever designed... and I can say this as I've owned the original Mac Pro 2006 and the 2008 model. I've built my hackintosh because I got tired of Apples horsehockey with bottlenecks and limitations. The new Mac Pro is a joke for proper upgrades (albeit a nice aesthetic design).

However!!!

It's not like great case designs are exclusive to Apple designs! While I've got the Fractal Design Define R4 case with a window, I've got my eyes set on this case:

And you know what? I can actually do this. I can swap the case at will... reuse my PSU, cooler, etc. This freedom has never been a possibility with Apple.

I gotta admit though, I prefer if the case were in white like the smaller mATX build;

Another sweet case worth mentioning:

 

[MH01]

amateurs argue about and base computer comparisons around geekbench scores. because they don't really have much else to base off of.. people concerned with working efficiently on a computer would put "higher geekbench score" at around #345 on list of things they would change in order to work faster.

i'm working this weekend.. you could literally quadruple my geekbench score right now and nothing would change.. finishing this thing will take me exactly the same amount of time regardless of my computer's geekbench score.


it's not up for debate with you because your determining factor in judging hardware is a geekbench score.. otherwise, it's entirely debatable.. (not a debate i'd like to have though.. mac hardware and pc hardware are both fine.. people do amazing stuff on both)



maybe not.. what's 'power user' mean to you?



what are you talking about? a work around to what? the green button works as it's supposed to..

that you think something different should happen when you press it means jack squat..
i think you should be able to triple-click the desktop and it cleans up.. so it's a workaround, and a terrible one at that, for me to have to right-click-> Clean up..

do you see how goofy that sounds?

A geek bench score is an indicator of the performance of the machine. A mac pro has a higher score than a MacBook Pro by a fair margin. If you need a Mac Pro over a MacBook Pro, that difference is a lot of saved time. Some people have machines run at max CPU/GPU to finish thier work. Time = money (think video encoding or rendering)

benchmarking is also very important when upgrading components and troubleshooting, it's a test.

 

[MH01]

This is a very disingenuous contribution to the thread. The cable management in that image you posted is definitely bad, but that could easily be fixed by spending literally 5 minutes of routing the cables through rubber grommets. Here is my Hackintosh build:

I used only ONE tool for the entire build from start to finish. A phillips screwdriver. I too, have drive sleds. My PSU has a hybrid mode of operation, the fan in it doesnt have to turn up until the system is at 20% load. My case is covered with sound isolating foam, to keep it quiet. The computer at idle is nearly completely silent, at full load it generates only a low hum. The perforated openings behind them have a dust filter so it remains dust free and clean on the inside.

But if you wanna see some really nice cable management, check out Jayz2cents PC build:

^^^Crazy how clean that is. Not my style of all of those fans and the case (I think its ugly)... but that is cable management from the gods.

Next, the innards definitely do look much cleaner in a cheesegrater mac pro compared to MOST PC builds. However, this is largely aesthetics and it will never be seen anyway with the side panels closed on the case.

I will however agree that the cheesegrater design of the Mac Pro case is REALLY well done and is in my top desktop top 5 favourite PC cases ever designed... and I can say this as I've owned the original Mac Pro 2006 and the 2008 model. I've built my hackintosh because I got tired of Apples horsehockey with bottlenecks and limitations. The new Mac Pro is a joke for proper upgrades (albeit a nice aesthetic design).

However!!!

It's not like great case designs are exclusive to Apple designs! While I've got the Fractal Design Define R4 case with a window, I've got my eyes set on this case:

And you know what? I can actually do this. I can swap the case at will... reuse my PSU, cooler, etc. This freedom has never been a possibility with Apple.

I gotta admit though, I prefer if the case were in white like the smaller mATX build;

Another sweet case worth mentioning:

Gotta love well put together water cooled PCs . They look great, and perform also

 

[bladerunner2000]

amateurs argue about and base computer comparisons around geekbench scores. because they don't really have much else to base off of.. people concerned with working efficiently on a computer would put "higher geekbench score" at around #345 on list of things they would change in order to work faster.

i'm working this weekend.. you could literally quadruple my geekbench score right now and nothing would change.. finishing this thing will take me exactly the same amount of time regardless of my computer's geekbench score.

LOL, you make it sound as if we don't need faster computers. Great, your workflow doesn't require much speed. But do you have any idea how arrogant it is to suggest that just because YOU don't need a faster computer that someone else wouldn't either?

I've spent the last 10-15 years working the Adobe Creative Suite and depending on the projects complexity, a faster machine would be a huge welcome. One of my best friends does work in After Effects and Cinema 4D... you're going to tell me and the rest of the forum readers that a faster computer wouldnt benefit him? Dude has to wait 1-2 hours just to render certain projects.

it's not up for debate with you because your determining factor in judging hardware is a geekbench score.. otherwise, it's entirely debatable.. (not a debate i'd like to have though.. mac hardware and pc hardware are both fine.. people do amazing stuff on both)

It's not up for debate because the facts speak for themselves. PC hardware CAN and DOES perform faster for a much lower price. Hell, just watch this video from Linus Sebastian, likely the most OBJECTIVE tech reviewer on the net;

Granted he was comparing consumer to server grade, but the the number crunching results speak for themselves.

So again: NOT UP FOR DEBATE.

what are you talking about? a work around to what? the green button works as it's supposed to..

that you think something different should happen when you press it means jack squat..
i think you should be able to triple-click the desktop and it cleans up.. so it's a workaround, and a terrible one at that, for me to have to right-click-> Clean up..

do you see how goofy that sounds?

A lot of people despise the way the green button works and would prefer the option to revert back to the behaviour in Mavericks and have Apple NOT close the API to modify it's functionality to keep applications like RightZoom continuing to work.

See this thread for the MANY complaints about the green button:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/green-button-maximize-not-full-screen.1891942/

 

[flat five]

A geek bench score is an indicator of the performance of the machine. A mac pro has a higher score than a MacBook Pro by a fair margin. If you need a Mac Pro over a MacBook Pro, that difference is a lot of saved time. Some people have machines run at max CPU/GPU to finish thier work. Time = money (think video encoding or rendering)

benchmarking is also very important when upgrading components and troubleshooting, it's a test.

i know what benchmarking indicates.

but nowhere in your post to you present a case of higher benchmark equates to less hours worked & more free time to me.

(context of thread = $1300 hackintosh vs entry mac pro)

 

[bladerunner2000]

i know what benchmarking indicates.

but nowhere in your post to you present a case of higher benchmark equates to less hours worked & more free time to me.

(context of thread = $1300 hackintosh vs entry mac pro)

Great, then why don't you use Windows on a PC? You could do just fine on that as well, but you chose a Mac. Why?

 

[subsonix]

A geek bench score is an indicator of the performance of the machine.

Yes it's an indicator, but the test is based on a synthetic work load and the score is a summary of many smaller tests. You may find that an older Xeon scores lower than a new consumer class CPU for example, but that doesn't mean that the new consumer class CPU will perform better for you particular application. Things like memory I/O, floating point performance and a larger on die cache is typically better/larger.

 

[zone23]

It's fairly recent that that is the case.

==

Simply put Macs aren't better than PC's but that really doesn't matter

I agree that Apple computers aren't necessarily better than windows machines. I believe that since Apple builds the OS and the computer they work much better together (like the commercial says).

Lenovo makes some really nice looking Windows based computers. Like others I just prefer OS X mainly do to not needing to do maintenance such as registry cleaners and defragmenters. OS X is also nice because I don't have to run updates every Tuesday. OS X doesn't slow down over time like windows can. The build quality of apple hardware is really great I have people at the office with newer machines that are getting worn out, but we try and buy higher end machines so they don't break in a year. I think the way the track pad works is really nice like I can use three fingers to drag windows around, although thats really a driver thing I haven't seen windows machines do it. I'm sure they exist though. My daughter who is 12 has a macbook air and I haven't had one issue with virus or adaware since I gave it to her about 2 years ago, that makes my life easier. I like that I get free upgrades to the new OS X builds when they come out, although MS has started doing this too. I like that I don't need a key to install OS X it or have to activate it. Its nice being able to download the latest build of OS X so I don't have to spend 6 hours running updates after a clean install. I really wish Microsoft would do this hell they don't even do service packs anymore.

 

[flat five]

Great, then why don't you use Windows on a PC? You could do just fine on that as well, but you chose a Mac. Why?

because in ~1999-2000 when i started computing, all my friends had mac so all their software became my software at no additional cost.

i've since stopped using pirated software but have continued to use macs because they work for me.. haven't had too much of a reason to look elsewhere other than software.. but nowadays, even that's fine.. there's great software (CAD) available for mac.

but yeah, that's why i chose mac.. fwiw.

 

[flat five]

So again: NOT UP FOR DEBATE.

haha. i don't understand you

the video is mostly showing how to build a hackintosh.. and nowhere, except a few screen grabs of finder and some type of terminal window, do they show anybody actually using a computer..


i mean, who cares if it's not up for debate?? you're a horrible debater with weak points that don't even coincide with the questions i've asked you.

 

[bladerunner2000]

haha. i don't understand you

the video is mostly showing how to build a hackintosh.. and nowhere, except a few screen grabs of finder and some type of terminal window, do they show anybody actually using a computer..


i mean, who cares if it's not up for debate?? you're a horrible debater with weak points that don't even coincide with the questions i've asked you.

You clearly didn't watch the video, or at least conveniently omitted the benchmarks and results of the comparison. You're in no place to call me a horrible debater when you REFUSE to see very obvious and real performance disparity between Macs and PCs.

 

[subsonix]

I find that Macs typically are more stable and consistent and just works in comparison. I say typically, because a PC can be any wintel machine so there are a lot of variation out there. You may be able to put one together yourself that performs very well and is stable, assuming you like the OS options available, but then I'd like to bring up the old joke that Linux if free if your time is worthless.

I also prefer the OS over Windows, although a personal preference, if you want or need a Unix system it's great, just get the machine out of the box, plug it in and get to work. For media related work, the OS comes with great pro frameworks and is made for the specific hardware that ships in the box, this makes them stable and reliable and offer a best in class latency accross the board out of the box.

 

[Badrottie]

Apple Mac is like 2016 Lamboroghini Roadster
PCs are like 1980 AMC Pacer/Gremlin
Call it a day

 

[zone23]

I also like that when I install most apps i don't have to click next 12 times. Just drop it in the applications folder and down. Also if I remove it I can just delete it from the applications folder. That said lately I've been using appcleaner to remove apps.

 

[bladerunner2000]

I find that Macs typically are more stable and consistent and just works in comparison. I say typically, because a PC can be any wintel machine so there are a lot of variation out there. You may be able to put one together yourself that performs very well and is stable, assuming you like the OS options available, but then I'd like to bring up the old joke that Linux if free if your time is worthless.

I also prefer the OS over Windows, although a personal preference, if you want or need a Unix system it's great, just get the machine out of the box, plug it in and get to work. For media related work, the OS comes with great pro frameworks and is made for the specific hardware that ships in the box, this makes them stable and reliable and offer a best in class latency accross the board out of the box.

Don't forget that PC builds can run OS X as well, so you get to have whichever OS you want. And it's something that I've done to my computer build because I recognize that OS X on Apple builds is typically more stable than Windows on a PC with random parts. The question now though, disregarding performance disparity is this: does that justify paying SO much more for a Mac over a PC? And now a tougher question: does it justify paying so much more if the PC counterpart is also much faster and much cheaper?

 

[subsonix]

Don't forget that PC builds can run OS X as well, so you get to have whichever OS you want.

If you don't mind breaking the ToS and use modified components, which may or may not work as intended on your particular set up.

The question now though, disregarding performance disparity is this: does that justify paying SO much more for a Mac over a PC? And now a tougher question: does it justify paying so much more if the PC counterpart is also much faster and much cheaper?

If you compare equivalent parts (i.e. use the exact same parts), it's typically not that much cheaper if at all, and this is especially true for pre-built boxes. And this is before you factor in the value of your own time that you put into doing it.