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lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,460
6,788
Germany
Which is kinda my point if quality is the quality of the material that is used to build a computer then Apple is quality along with a few others. If quality is the ability to keep with the times then Apple is not quality.

Are Sager/Clevo quality everything in them is replaceable even if the chasis isn't as good as the Mac.

How about the Z840 everything in it is replacible and the case is designed by BMW and nicely exehich one of the these is quality?
 

MacCruiskeen

macrumors 6502
Nov 9, 2011
321
5
Are Sager/Clevo quality everything in them is replaceable even if the chasis isn't as good as the Mac.

My laptop is a Clevo (assembled by Mythlogic), and it is true that it is not the engineering marvel of a MacPro, but it is solidly built. Perhaps almost too solidly (it is not especially lightweight). You could do much, much worse in a laptop as far as basic manufacturing quality goes (yeah, I'm looking at you, Lenovo!). And indeed, one of the upsides of it not being so overengineered is that you can open the case and relatively easily get at the innards, and make any upgrades you want. (Mythlogic even offers a low-cost upgrade service as part of their package.)

If you think your mac is getting obsolete too fast, it is partly due to technology changes beyond Apple's control, but also partly due to deliberate choices by Apple. I guess they figure if most people aren't going to bother to make upgrades, they'll just take away the option for everyone.
 
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lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,460
6,788
Germany
My laptop is a Clevo (assembled by Mythlogic), and it is true that it is not the engineering marvel of a MacPro, but it is solidly built. Perhaps almost too solidly (it is not especially lightweight). You could do much, much worse in a laptop as far as basic manufacturing quality goes (yeah, I'm looking at you, Lenovo!). And indeed, one of the upsides of it not being so overengineered is that you can open the case and relatively easily get at the innards, and make any upgrades you want. (Mythlogic even offers a low-cost upgrade service as part of their package.)

My E6500 while not being as upgradable as the Clevo is still has it's mini-pci and the cooling is on the correct side of the motherboard. My '08 has BT4, 802.11ac, a BR drive along with a 4G radio and still has a slot left that could accommodate a SSD. The computer is now 6 years old and won't be replaced for another year or two, to me that's quality but it's quality is different than the MBP that work gives me which is a year newer. Neither computer is bad but my Dell IMHO is a better quality computer.
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
May 23, 2010
1,545
625
Shady Dale, Georgia
My DD12 uses a Late 2007 white MacBook. The MacBook Pro that I'm composing this message on is a Mid 2009 model. She's running Lion and I'm on Yosemite. Do you know why we haven't replaced these two computers with newer models? Because the hardware has held up very well and the computers are still usable for what we need them to do.

Yes, there are a few PC's that hold up as well but they aren't the norm. Just look at the quality of the case that our computer is in. They are solid. They were built to last.
 

turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
686
30
On that note, I just replaced the HD of a 2009 MBP with a OWC SSD.
Before, it was sluggish and slow. Now, holy snappiness. It feels like my 2014 iMac with Fusion Drive. This will give that MBP at least another 3 years of life.

-t
 

stroked

Suspended
May 3, 2010
555
331
This is the winning question.

The answer is that you can. I have an iMac G4 2003 model running OS X Tiger, had it since new. Its still with me today and is still one of my daily drivers. I can email and shop online with it perfectly fine.

However, if Apple had the choice, I wouldn't be able to. All of the software Apple contributed for it has now been deemed obsolete and dropped from support. If it wasn't for apps like TenFourFox, Spotify, Dropbox, Open XML Converter, YouView and Skype still supporting the PowerPC platform, then my G4 would be a beautiful paperweight.

It is no secret that Apple like to drop support for their products far too early. It is up to the user to decide if legacy support is important to them because if so, Apple is probably the last company they should be buying from unless they're confident that 3rd party software will be available to extend the life of their computer beyond what Apple deems as acceptable.

Due to the locked down nature of iOS, it isn't even possible on iPhones and iPads. Once Apple ditches you, buy a new phone sucker.

Good post. This is what I was thinking when I read the OP.
 

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
I suppose the real question here is how people define quality. In my mind materials used, sophistication of visual design and mechanical engineering design, performance, and last but not least longevity/serviceability, equate quality.

It is questionable in my mind whether Apple's policy of soldering ram, proprietary SSD, glued batteries and non serviceable parts equate *quality* - not to be confused with *performance*.

In fact while looking inside the current MBP for example, where most of the real estate is comprised of glued battery modules and non serviceable parts just does not exude mechanical design excellence, rather visually is a meh...

Much like a digital movement watch that performs better than an analogue one, the digital watch works are throw away and replace components, compared to the mechanical construction of the analogue, which if constructed with excellence will stand the test of time in it's beauty of craftmanship and serviceability, the digital watch works will not, in all it's ugliness. But hey a beautiful case with a brand name makes the perception of quality in a digital.

Superficial beauty only combined with performance I think holds true for Apple these days where the cost of integrating all parts that used to be serviceable unto one motherboard (it's just one big throw away chip) is not only cheaper to manufacture chassi design wise, and much more profitable, especially if accidents happen where you are SOL even with applecare.

Collectible? I doubt it, serviceable - no way, expensive- hell yes, quality - well thats debatable.
 
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Michaelgtrusa

macrumors 604
Oct 13, 2008
7,900
1,821
I suppose the real question here is how people define quality. In my mind materials used, sophistication of visual design and mechanical engineering design, performance, and last but not least longevity/serviceability, equate quality.

It is questionable in my mind whether Apple's policy of soldering ram, proprietary SSD, glued batteries and non serviceable parts equate *quality* - not to be confused with *performance*.

In fact while looking inside the current MBP for example, where most of the real estate is comprised of glued battery modules and non serviceable parts just does not exude mechanical design excellence, rather visually is a meh...

Much like a digital movement watch that performs better than an analogue one, the digital watch works are throw away and replace components, compared to the mechanical construction of the analogue, which if constructed with excellence will stand the test of time in it's beauty of craftmanship and serviceability, the digital watch works will not, in all it's ugliness. But hey a beautiful case with a brand name makes the perception of quality in a digital.

Superficial beauty only combined with performance I think holds true for Apple these days where the cost of integrating all parts that used to be serviceable unto one motherboard (it's just one big throw away chip) is not only cheaper to manufacture chassi design wise, and much more profitable, especially if accidents happen where you are SOL even with applecare.

Collectible? I doubt it, serviceable - no way, expensive- hell yes, quality - well thats debatable.



You are right on the quality definition however, the reason the non seviceability of parts is motivated by pure profit, bring it to us to clean out the dust and be charged several hundred dollars for the service.
 
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