Why should I "upgrade" to Sierra?

[stockscalper]

I get more spinning beach balls with Sierra than I did with Yosemite.

 

[psik]

I'm still running yosemite, only upgraded at 10.10.5, it seem better than mavericks in many ways, and not so in other ways. Only real annoyance I've found is swiping between desktops sometimes sticks between screens rather than jumping to next desktop. Finder is a bit more vibrant , and the flat icon do grow on you after a bit.
[doublepost=1479110590][/doublepost]The big question is what next from yosemite, el captain, sierra, or wait again.

I had general performance problems with yosemite; el capitan fixed those.. sierra just adds a few features - i'd say waiting for 10.13 is a good idea if you care about security as i believe apple is going to make it secure in certain ways: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/11/10/mac_administrators_prep_for_change/

 

[whitedog]

i dont think you realized what i was trying to say - sierra's new features don't increase productivity for anyone - SIRI is very weak sauce, and optimized storage - people with storage issues have alternative more effective ways of dealing with that

These are currently considered gimmicks at best because they appear to demonstrate a concept, but do so very poorly; until they are really ready they should not be released other wise as I clearly said I'd love to use them. Furthermore, and again, apple needs to stick with basics that have been missing such as what you can do with Better Snap Tools, and etc; Windows 10 already does that and there is a reason: they have realized that *everyone* needs it, its a basic feature. SIRI and Optimized Storage however, they really are gimmicks in this day and age, both for the novices and the advanced users, plain and simple. It's when fans like yourself reject reality that a company goes down: just say it SIRI is crap; Optimized Storage usefulness at this point is questionable

I won't say SIRI is crap. That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But you can't order people to agree with you. That sort of thing just pisses them off. It's more than a little arrogant to think your opinion is the only one that matters—though it's a good way to end a discussion when you've nothing useful or convincing left to say.

As for what is considered a gimmick, by whom are they so considered? You? Not good enough by a country mile.

If you don't like the new features in Sierra, as I said—more than once—you can turn them off. Even so there is no imperative to upgrade to Sierra at the moment. You don't have to and neither do I, though our reasons apparently are not be the same.

There's also the question of what increases productivity; once more, you make assertions as if you had received word directly from God. That's another foul ball, to borrow a phrase. That kind of self-importance just doesn't play. In fact, it undermines whatever credibility you may have had heretofore.

As for window management in macOS, there are a variety of third-party applications that enable users to manage Finder windows in various ways. I use one called Finder Window Manager that suits my needs. It has long been Apple's habit to leave some customization options open to third-party developers. On rare occasions they will adopt one or another into the OS if it suits them. And it's long been the habit of some users to complain when Apple does not include one of their favorite features. For a long time this was the case with multiple desktops, which some considered to be a serious productivity aid; Apple finally added them when they introduced Expose many years ago. Desktops are now called Spaces and Expose's features have been integrated under Mission Control preferences. Finder and application window tabs, and Spaces, may not be your idea of good window management tools, but apparently they satisfy Apple well enough. In the meantime, you're free to choose one window management app or another to resolve your particular issues. Personally, I like having choices.
[doublepost=1479245847][/doublepost]

I'm still running yosemite, only upgraded at 10.10.5, it seem better than mavericks in many ways, and not so in other ways. Only real annoyance I've found is swiping between desktops sometimes sticks between screens rather than jumping to next desktop. Finder is a bit more vibrant , and the flat icon do grow on you after a bit.
[doublepost=1479110590][/doublepost]The big question is what next from yosemite, el captain, sierra, or wait again.

The flat icons haven't grown on me. It's not a matter of aesthetics, though I find the aesthetic of a flat, goth gray interface to be dubious at best. For me the issue is usability. Colored and customized icons make it easier for me to use the Finder window sidebar for navigation, which was its purpose in the first place. Putting aesthetics, any aesthetics, above usability is a big-time Fail in my book. How long are we expected to mourn Steve Jobs, anyway? He's been gone five years now. It's time for Apple to get a new idea. You know, like making the macOS easier to use instead of harder. It's past time for them to restore usability to their priority list. If design does not serve function, it's no more than vanity.

 

[Glenny2lappies]

So yes, Siri is less than it could be, and less than it will be a few years from now. But it's on the Mac at last, and her sisters are in Windows, the Amazon Echo and now the Google Pixel phone. ;-) Voice response systems are moving into home automation as well. So use them or not, they're here to stay.

Still cannot think of a single reason for speaking to a computer in a busy office. Except for calling it names when it goes wrong (that's aimed at my Windows 2012 VM which has just crashed...).

Take for example typing this post. With the keyboard and mouse I can edit it as I type. Voice activation makes a nonsense of this; Siri, select the previous sentance. No paragraph. No the sentence. The third word in that sentence. Change it for their. No t.h.e.i.r.... It's misery incarnate.

The basic reason for this is voice is sequential and not very precise. My eye can flick around this screen to anywhere, easily followed by my mouse so I can select exactly what I want -- almost like the "picture saves a thousand words". Voice is like using a Dictaphone or a shorthand secretary: requires very specific skills and clarity of thought.

I do wonder if this poor and unreliable voice automation is a fad, much like 3D television. When the technology improves, maybe it'll be of some use, but again, fairly limited.

 

[whitedog]

Still cannot think of a single reason for speaking to a computer in a busy office. Except for calling it names when it goes wrong (that's aimed at my Windows 2012 VM which has just crashed...).

Take for example typing this post. With the keyboard and mouse I can edit it as I type. Voice activation makes a nonsense of this; Siri, select the previous sentance. No paragraph. No the sentence. The third word in that sentence. Change it for their. No t.h.e.i.r.... It's misery incarnate.

The basic reason for this is voice is sequential and not very precise. My eye can flick around this screen to anywhere, easily followed by my mouse so I can select exactly what I want -- almost like the "picture saves a thousand words". Voice is like using a Dictaphone or a shorthand secretary: requires very specific skills and clarity of thought.

I do wonder if this poor and unreliable voice automation is a fad, much like 3D television. When the technology improves, maybe it'll be of some use, but again, fairly limited.

You're right, it's not something to use is a crowded office. But what makes you think that's the only place to use it? And just because you don't need it, why do you think no one else does? Those are some pretty lame, self-centered, assumptions there.

In the end you just paraphrased what I said. AI is in its infancy, but eventually it may (will) be useful.

Like you I prefer to use a keyboard rather than voice recognition software (which Siri is not—that's Dragon Dictate). But I learned to type 60 years ago. Many people these days cannot type their way out of a paper bag. So talking to a computer makes more sense to them than it does to me—or you.

This would be obvious if you weren't so bent on dissing Siri.

 

[vexorg]

It's been in star trek for 50 years, and that's the target I believe they are heading for. It's a long way off unless yo have the perfect Californian accent, anything other than american results in asking siri about 3 or 4 times on the iPhone - although it has no problem understanding "**** off" in any accent.

I think it would be more useful in cars at first, where hands free is becoming the requirement. I'd love to be able to ask it to read a sms or send an sms, but you can't when the phone's locked, and you can't unlock it while driving.

I can't see it working on the mac for some time yet. Maybe some basics first, like open email, but that's kind of redundant with the dock. Anyone that's set it up right has most common things they need already with shortcuts. I think it will need a few generation more of AI to get there. Then we'll all fall for scarlett johanssen and the world will fall apart.

 

[Glenny2lappies]

This would be obvious if you weren't so bent on dissing Siri.

That's because, in my experience, Siri doesn't work. If I try using it on the phone it frequently dials randomly people from my contacts list. Siri seems incapable of understanding basic commands and is an intensely frustrating experience exacerbated by network delays.

 

[CrashX]

I was considering updating to Sierra, to prep my machine for 2017.

My previous MBP still runs Snow Leopard. I don't use it for work - but, as far as I know, it was the last OS release that wasn't "bloatware" and actually improved performance on that machine.

It was my (possibly incorrect) understanding that El Capitan was a very welcome release - I don't hear anyone yearning for the days of Yosemite?

So what's up with Sierra? Is it just loaded with ridiculous buggy bloatware that slows everything down or what's the deal? I don't need Siri on my laptop, and I'm not a fan of iCloud. And I definitely don't care anything about emojis or any of that blatant silliness.

So am I chill with just sticking with El Capitan and hoping for a mountain to be covered with snow and leopards - or is it best just to go ahead and suck it up - and upgrade?

Other than the recent comment about his "commitment" to Macs, it seems like Cook is directing all of Apple's resources toward... I'm not really sure? But they don't seem to care much about our old boring stuffy "legacy" Macs anymore?

I just don't want to get stuck in the middle of the year upgrading because Adobe has started in with Sierra-only updates.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[KALLT]

Sierra 10.12.2 seems to have closed an attack vector that would have allowed an attacker to gain direct memory access and retrieve the FileVault password, all in a few minutes with a $300 tool.

That’s perhaps another reason to consider updating, particularly if you have a Mac with Thunderbolt or USB 3. I do not see any immediate source that this has been addressed in a security update as well.

http://blog.frizk.net/2016/12/filevault-password-retrieval.html

 

[psik]

Sierra 10.12.2 seems to have closed an attack vector that would have allowed an attacker to gain direct memory access and retrieve the FileVault password, all in a few minutes with a $300 tool.

That’s perhaps another reason to consider updating, particularly if you have a Mac with Thunderbolt or USB 3. I do not see any immediate source that this has been addressed in a security update as well.

http://blog.frizk.net/2016/12/filevault-password-retrieval.html

correct me if i am wrong - but i believe at least el capitan also received that update?
[doublepost=1482498837][/doublepost]

Sierra 10.12.2 seems to have closed an attack vector that would have allowed an attacker to gain direct memory access and retrieve the FileVault password, all in a few minutes with a $300 tool.

That’s perhaps another reason to consider updating, particularly if you have a Mac with Thunderbolt or USB 3. I do not see any immediate source that this has been addressed in a security update as well.

http://blog.frizk.net/2016/12/filevault-password-retrieval.html

or actually i think the vulnerability was only in sierra to begin with?

 

[KALLT]

correct me if i am wrong - but i believe at least el capitan also received that update?
[doublepost=1482498837][/doublepost]

or actually i think the vulnerability was only in sierra to begin with?

The flaw was found earlier, so it must include El Capitan as well. I do not see any relevant entries for El Capitan here: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207423. As usual, most fixes are only made available for the latest release.

Edit: the source code of the hack tool references El Capitan: https://github.com/ufrisk/pcileech/blob/master/pcileech_files/unlock_macos.sig. Support for Sierra was only added in version 1.2 of the tool.

 

[clauzzz203]

Can someone explain why I should upgrade from el capitan?

Sierra brings these features:

1. Siri: I often use my computer where other people see me in the public space. I don't want to do things slower while looking like a complete tool doing it. It's just a horrible idea. Add to that i talk Swedish and it just doesn't work in Swedish.

2. Copy paste on other devices: I have no other apple devices.

3. Log in with apple watch: I don't have an apple watch since I don't have an iPhone.

4. Access documents on all your apple devices: see 2 and 3.

5. pay, quote from sales pitch: "Your Mac has always been the perfect place to sit down and do some serious online shopping." :Nobody really accept that payment method in Sweden any ways. How is paying for more stuff a feature any ways? Get real apple.

6. Optimized storage: I have 60% free hdd space and no problem managing it.

7. New iPhoto: I don't use that app. I don't like locking my photos in a proprietary system made for the  eco system, see 2 and 3 again.

8. Emojis: No thanks, i'm fine with the ones in whatsapp already.

9. New iTunes: I use spotify.

10: Tabs in finder: that might be useful actually.

11: Picture in picture: Really? I can just pop out a video from a web browser if i would want to do that, which i dont.


TLDR: Is it worth upgrading for tabs in finder? I feel like this update is insulting my intelligence as a serious user of  computers.

The language they use to promote it somehow underline people using their computers are not capable human beings.

I'm ok if you don't update it..
and to the question: you should update if you want the features, which the update brings

 

[psik]

The flaw was found earlier, so it must include El Capitan as well. I do not see any relevant entries for El Capitan here: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207423. As usual, most fixes are only made available for the latest release.

Edit: the source code of the hack tool references El Capitan: https://github.com/ufrisk/pcileech/blob/master/pcileech_files/unlock_macos.sig. Support for Sierra was only added in version 1.2 of the tool.

Thanks, it appears, but only appears, that this may have been fixed in El Capitan:

https://itnerd.blog/2016/12/16/apple-quietly-fixed-a-major-filevault-2-vulnerability/

it would be great if someone with more expertise/connections can actually clear this up, as it is a pretty major vulnerability...

 

[KALLT]

Thanks, it appears, but only appears, that this may have been fixed in El Capitan:

https://itnerd.blog/2016/12/16/apple-quietly-fixed-a-major-filevault-2-vulnerability/

it would be great if someone with more expertise/connections can actually clear this up, as it is a pretty major vulnerability...

It does seem that Apple did not disclose this vulnerability at all or mention it in a security advisory. That is extremely disappointing.

 

[psik]

It does seem that Apple did not disclose this vulnerability at all or mention it in a security advisory. That is extremely disappointing.

For neither Sierra or El Capitan?

 

[Izakaya-Damon]

I don't see any documentation that shows Sierra offers significant improvements (or any improvements) over El Capitan.

I upgraded laptop but desktop won't take sierra 2 apps stopped working haven't checked for update yet... siri ok on my iphone can't see value on laptop more of a pain.. but i may get used to it or move to chrome book and use OK GOOGLE..oooh... let me try that on my mac..

 

[macmacmacr]

How many people have had security breaches since snow leopard. Or Maverick/Yosemite for newer ones.

You will also notice that the App store no longer shows users of the new OS, Sierra reviews anymore. All previous OS you could read users responses.

 

[jago25_98]

Stay with El Capitan then. Two more years of security updates.

In general, I don’t understand this attitude. I can understand that you are not interested in particular new features, but an OS consists of numerous little components that are constantly improved. Even if you cannot see anything new, Sierra is technically more up-to-date. Unless you have particular reasons for not upgrading, why not make updating a habit when you can?

Because Apple favour newer hardware so at some point you're gonna update and get a slow device.

My ipad and iphone have already been killed this way. Until I see some words to the effect of 'We promise not to break your stuff' Apple will have to work with uncooperative users