Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

😀 Correct. I am certain that most automobile owners in the US and Canada have both metric and US customary sockets, and wrenches.

Agreed. I used to have a set of socket that included both metric and SAE.
And, if you had a worn bolt head from one set, you could often 'encourage'* a socket from the other set to fit around it and remove the worn bolt.


* via percussive maintenance...

 

[AZhappyjack]

Traditionally, a "cup" of coffee is 6 ounces.

Feeling sad for you... 6 ounces is hardly worth the effort to brew it...

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Feeling sad for you... 6 ounces is hardly worth the effort to brew it...

Unless it is a NY's Cuban or Italian-style expresso. The cup hold about four ounces of an extremely dark coffee

 

[Solomani]

Even more traditional is espresso. In countries like Italy.... their coffee is in the form of a 1.5-ounce espresso (if single shot).

The history of the Cafe Americano: Basically, it's watered-down espresso for Americans. So yeah, the total drink volume is like 4 to 5 times that of a single espresso.

The caffè americano finds its origins in World War II. Interestingly, American soldiers stationed in Italy didn't care for the very strong espresso that was favoured in the country, therefore they tried to recreate their beloved drip coffee from back home by adding water to the espresso shot.

 

[torana355]

The same reason the US allows everyone to run around with assault rifles, Americans don't like change even if its to thier absolute detriment.

 

[SalisburySam]

The same reason the US allows everyone to run around with assault rifles, Americans don't like change even if its to thier absolute detriment.

Which brings to mind yet another measuring system: caliber, or the diameter of a barrel. These are BOTH metric and Imperial depending on usage and size. A 357 round fits and refers to a bore of .357in but is also called a 38 and a 9mm. A NATO rifle round is 7.62mm but also called a 308, a 30-30, a 30-06, a 308, and dozens of other names. A 5.56mm round is also called a 22 with a bore of .223in. Worse, a 45 round fits 0.451-0.454 bores and is 11.43mm.

And while we’re at it, there is the gauge (US) or bore (UK) of a shotgun where gauge is the number of solid lead spheres the size of the bore that equates to 1lb in weight. So a 12 gauge is named so because an avoirdupois pound would require 12 lead spheres each the diameter of the bore. This is also why a 20-gauge shotgun has a smaller bore than a 12-gauge. To confused this more, the 410-gauge isn’t a gauge at all but the actual bore diameter of .410in so here we have a gauge acting like a caliber. It would convert to 67.62 gauge, a name that hardly rolls off the tongue.

Yeah, measurement systems vary like human languages. Most of us fluently move from one to the other as needed for whatever we’re doing at the time. No biggie.

 

[eyoungren]

Even more traditional is espresso. In countries like Italy.... their coffee is in the form of a 1.5-ounce espresso (if single shot).

The history of the Cafe Americano: Basically, it's watered-down espresso for Americans. So yeah, the total drink volume is like 4 to 5 times that of a single espresso.

That would explain why I've always hated that drink. And I'm an American. SMH.

 

[the future]

To sum up the counter arguments for the OP: „Because we‘re ‘Murica. Deal with it.“

 

[mtbdudex]

Even more traditional is espresso. In countries like Italy.... their coffee is in the form of a 1.5-ounce espresso (if single shot).

The history of the Cafe Americano: Basically, it's watered-down espresso for Americans. So yeah, the total drink volume is like 4 to 5 times that of a single espresso.

Can’t start my day without my double-double espresso shot.
My wife likes the Americano, meh, like you said watered down, full strength for me.
Bonus: less volume, less trips to bathroom

 

[Solomani]

Which brings to mind yet another measuring system: caliber, or the diameter of a barrel. These are BOTH metric and Imperial depending on usage and size. A 357 round fits and refers to a bore of .357in but is also called a 38 and a 9mm. A NATO rifle round is 7.62mm but also called a 308, a 30-30, a 30-06, a 308, and dozens of other names. A 5.56mm round is also called a 22 with a bore of .223in. Worse, a 45 round fits 0.451-0.454 bores and is 11.43mm.

And while we’re at it, there is the gauge (US) or bore (UK) of a shotgun where gauge is the number of solid lead spheres the size of the bore that equates to 1lb in weight. So a 12 gauge is named so because an avoirdupois pound would require 12 lead spheres each the diameter of the bore. This is also why a 20-gauge shotgun has a smaller bore than a 12-gauge. To confused this more, the 410-gauge isn’t a gauge at all but the actual bore diameter of .410in so here we have a gauge acting like a caliber. It would convert to 67.62 gauge, a name that hardly rolls off the tongue.

Yeah, measurement systems vary like human languages. Most of us fluently move from one to the other as needed for whatever we’re doing at the time. No biggie.

Ah you can discuss caliber! You know the difference between a Mauser and a javelin. You are the very model of a modern major-general.

 

[Solomani]

Can’t start my day without my double-double espresso shot.
My wife likes the Americano, meh, like you said watered down, full strength for me.
Bonus: less volume, less trips to bathroom

I recently got into espresso with my first Nespresso machine, as discussed in the espresso enthusiast thread.

I’m starting out novice… a fully automated Nespresso machine. But it’s my evolution from years of Starbucks and drip coffee.

I see you have a Breville. My Nespresso machine is manufactured by De’Longhi…. tho I almost went with a Breville-made Nespresso machine.

My favorite variation is a double espresso pod (capsule). Tho my Nespresso model can brew singles, doubles, gran lungo (very close to the Americano), etc.

A double-double?? Does that equate to 4 single shots?

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

Primary reason because converting an entire country would be costly. Education system, businesses, signage across the entire country. And because it's been this way for 200 some years it's been ingrained into the psyche. Also we use both. Mostly in science and engineering.

 

[mtbdudex]

I recently got into espresso with my first Nespresso machine, as discussed is the espresso enthusiast thread.

I’m starting out novice… a fully automated Nespresso machine. But it’s my evolution from years of Starbucks and drip coffee.

I see you have a Breville. My Nespresso machine is manufactured by De’Longhi…. tho I almost went with a Breville-made Nespresso machine.

My favorite variation is a double espresso pod (capsule). Tho my Nespresso model can brew singles, doubles, gran lungo (very close to the Americano), etc.

A double-double?? Does that equate to 4 single shots?

Yep, 4x the caffeine!!!!
I honestly love the strength taste, no sugar no milk.
That’s at 6am, Lasts me all morning, I’ll do 1 cup of tea at 9:30 or 10 sometimes.
Weekends I’ll froth up 4-5oz milk .

It’s a tactile thing, grinding whole beans, tamper them, then press the 2x button twice. Gets this 60 yr brain firing all cylinders.

 

[Herdfan]

😀 Correct. I am certain that most automobile owners in the US and Canada have both metric and US customary sockets, and wrenches.

Yes. So that is hundred of dollars that no one needs to spend.

And I think I have posted this before, but my SXS is made in MN by Polaris. It is all metric. Fine.

But some of the aftermarket accessory manufactures use SAE. So to put it on, you most likely have to remove some factory bolt, so a metric tool. Then use an SAE tool to attach the accessory, then metric to put the factory bolt back. Maddening.

 

[eyoungren]

Also, it is one of those things that differs America from other countries.

I'm an American, but when I buy a gallon of milk I am certainly not thinking that this differentiates my country from others. Especially when I then go over and grab a 2-liter bottle of soda.

 

[eyoungren]

Primary reason because converting an entire country would be costly. Education system, businesses, signage across the entire country. And because it's been this way for 200 some years it's been ingrained into the psyche. Also we use both. Mostly in science and engineering.

We already got started on that in the 1970s, which is why we have medication dosages in milligrams and milliliters. It's why Americans are familiar with metric when it comes to machines. It's why you can buy a 1 or 2 liter bottle of soda.

I doubt it's as expensive as you seem to make it out to be as there's been change already.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Yes. So that is hundred of dollars that no one needs to spend.

And I think I have posted this before, but my SXS is made in MN by Polaris. It is all metric. Fine.

But some of the aftermarket accessory manufactures use SAE. So to put it on, you most likely have to remove some factory bolt, so a metric tool. Then use an SAE tool to attach the accessory, then metric to put the factory bolt back. Maddening.

You can interchange tools if you like, but it's much simpler to buy a package that has both. Mechanics have both, and so most Americans who perform vehicle maintenance.

4mm, use a 3/16"
5mm, use a 1/4"
6mm, you can use a 1/4" (just a little tighter)
12mm, is quite common = 1/2" socket or wrench
13mm, 14mm, use a 9/16"
15mm, use 5/8"
50mm, use a 2" wrench

Most or the automobile parts, bolts, nuts, etc., are metric sizes, but I would not get rid of the SAE tools I have since these tools can be used with metric bolts and nuts.

 

[Solomani]

I'm an American, but when I buy a gallon of milk I am certainly not thinking that this differentiates my country from others. Especially when I then go over and grab a 2-liter bottle of soda.

I've worked in acute hospitals, in health care. So we Americans that work in the sciences (STEM) are familiar with the metric system. We measure medication and drugs in terms of MLs (milliliters). And some doses are in micrograms, mcg, especially the potent opioids and narcotics.

Altho for shorthand speak.... we say things like "Yeah can you hand me that 10cc (ten cee-cee) syringe, please!"

Do European health care workers use that term? 1cc = 1 cubic centimeter = 1ml

 

[eyoungren]

I've worked in acute hospitals, in health care. So we Americans that work in the sciences (STEM) are familiar with the metric system. We measure medication and drugs in terms of MLs (milliliters). And some doses are in micrograms, mcg, especially the potent opioids and narcotics.

Altho for shorthand speak.... we say things like "Yeah can you hand me that 10cc (ten cee-cee) syringe, please!"

Do European health care workers use that term? 1cc = 1 cubic centimeter = 1ml

My son attended a STEAM school from sixth to eight grade and a science/technology high school after that. Sidebar, I would have killed to attend a high school like my son did - technology and particularly computers are a huge part of that school.

In any case, I mention it because my son is much more comfortable speaking in metric terms. He gets inches, miles, MPH, and all that, but because of the schooling his brain is wired for metric.

 

[eyoungren]

You can interchange tools if you like, but it's much simpler to buy a package that has both. Mechanics have both, and so most Americans who perform vehicle maintenance.

4mm, use a 3/16"
5mm, use a 1/4"
6mm, you can use a 1/4" (just a little tighter)
12mm, is quite common = 1/2" socket or wrench
13mm, 14mm, use a 9/16"
15mm, use 5/8"
50mm, use a 2" wrench

Most or the automobile parts, bolts, nuts, etc., are metric sizes, but I would not get rid of the SAE tools I have since these tools can be used with metric bolts and nuts.

I can tell you that it's been my experience that the most common wrench for battery terminals on Japanese cars (Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc) is a 10mm.

I just automatically grab that wrench now when I have to disconnect a battery.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

We already got started on that in the 1970s, which is why we have medication dosages in milligrams and milliliters. It's why Americans are familiar with metric when it comes to machines. It's why you can buy a 1 or 2 liter bottle of soda.

I doubt it's as expensive as you seem to make it out to be as there's been change already.

It is extremely expensive to switch from what we have now, which is both the US Customary and metrics, to metrics alone. The most economical way for the US is to not fix something that is not broken just to please other nations around the world. Right now we use metrics where it is needed the most: medicine, engineering and other sciences, space, aviation, and so on. We are using metrics even in bottled water. For example, as I look at a bottle of Kirkland purified water, the label is marked, "16.9 FL OZ (500mL) 1.05 PT." So if Costco has a few foreign and domestic shoppers buying bottle water, all are pleased If they decide to drive around town and want to observe the road speed limits, the speedometer shows MPH and KPH. The same when an American drives through Canada where the road signs are marked with KPH.

Why fixing something that isn't broken?

eyoungren said:​

I can tell you that it's been my experience that the most common wrench for battery terminals on Japanese cars (Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc) is a 10mm.

I just automatically grab that wrench now when I have to disconnect a battery.

That is true for US and other vehicles too. There are a few Japanese and some US trucks in my household. While there may be a few SAE nuts and bolts in the US trucks, most are metric sizes. But what I like about Toyota automobiles such as the RAV4 and Corolla is that the battery terminals, and battery support bracket have 10mm fasteners. That said, I can also grab a SAE wrench that is equal in size as the 10mm wrench, just after looking at the fastener (I used both the SAE and metric tools I have). If I break one, I can grab another of equal size.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

We already got started on that in the 1970s, which is why we have medication dosages in milligrams and milliliters. It's why Americans are familiar with metric when it comes to machines. It's why you can buy a 1 or 2 liter bottle of soda.

I doubt it's as expensive as you seem to make it out to be as there's been change already.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably more it's not broke no need to fix it. There's no real incentive to convert completely to one system. We're doing fine with the hybrid of using both.

 

[eyoungren]

Why fixing something that isn't broken?

Do you know why speedometers say MPH and KPH here? Do you know why groceries and goods on shelves at the supermarket have both standard and metric?

Because in the 1970s various industries prepared for the full conversion of the US to the metric system. The idea was to convert Americans slowly by getting them used to seeing the equivalent measurements in metric on the stuff they bought and used every day.

There was supposed to be a followup.

That followup would have been full metric conversion. That didn't happen. Why? Congress.

American business spent a LOT of money to get metric on to wrappers and labels and soda cans and everything else. They were expecting to go completely metric and when that didn't happen they became stuck printing this stuff in a halfway state.

Your labels and soda cans don't have imperial and metric measurements out of the goodness of the hearts of American business. Business is stuck spending that money because being at this halfway point they cannot go forward and they can't go back.

I was in kindergarten through third grade during the late 1970s and my teachers were doing their best to prepare everyone in their classes for conversion to the metric system. Because that was supposed to happen.

And it didn't, not all the way. So, no one can tell me that it's really expensive. Yes, I don't deny that there is an expense, but we've already paid half of it. We are not at ground zero here building up.

 

[eyoungren]

Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably more it's not broke no need to fix it. There's no real incentive to convert completely to one system. We're doing fine with the hybrid of using both.

That's because we stopped at the midway point. Congress did not mandate finishing. If it had, this entire thread would never have been posted.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Do you know why speedometers say MPH and KPH here? Do you know why groceries and goods on shelves at the supermarket have both standard and metric?

Because in the 1970s various industries prepared for the full conversion of the US to the metric system. The idea was to convert Americans slowly by getting them used to seeing the equivalent measurements in metric on the stuff they bought and used every day.

There was supposed to be a followup.

That followup would have been full metric conversion. That didn't happen. Why? Congress.

American business spent a LOT of money to get metric on to wrappers and labels and soda cans and everything else. They were expecting to go completely metric and when that didn't happen they became stuck printing this stuff in a halfway state.

Your labels and soda cans don't have imperial and metric measurements out of the goodness of the hearts of American business. Business is stuck spending that money because being at this halfway point they cannot go forward and they can't go back.

I was in kindergarten through third grade during the late 1970s and my teachers were doing their best to prepare everyone in their classes for conversion to the metric system. Because that was supposed to happen.

And it didn't, not all the way. So, no one can tell me that it's really expensive. Yes, I don't deny that there is an expense, but we've already paid half of it. We are not at ground zero here building up.

And your currency - from the outset - was metric.