Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?

[polyphenol]

In the UK, some idiot who performs as if a part of the government but who should actually be sent for re-education, has managed to push forward the idea of the UK allowing wine (including champagne) to be sold in pint bottles.

But not quite a pint. 568 millilitres - which is a tiny bit less than a UK Imperial pint.

Few can see the slightest sense in this. To the extent that the majority of those in the industry, let alone outsiders, think it will never actually happen.

And we will still not be able to buy wine by the glass in pints or any fraction thereof.

It also reminded me that the USA changed to measuring liquor in metric back in 1979.

The UK pint is different to the US pint (in total volume, in number of fluid ounces and even the size of the fluid ounce is different). Even if the USA still used pints for liquor, these UK pints would not be acceptable in the USA! Nor would US pint bottles be able to be sold in the UK.

Upsetting what is a very stable apple-cart for no good reason.

 

[timber]

Is that an option or mandatory?

Either way visually a pint bottle will probably look quite similar to a standard 75 cl wine bottle. So they will probably manage to make the same price (or relatively higher) stick.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Is that an option or mandatory?

Either way visually a pint bottle will probably look quite similar to a standard 75 cl wine bottle. So they will probably manage to make the same price (or relatively higher) stick.

Maybe someday men and women beer drinkers will become as large as walking refrigerators, and then switch from the "pint"size bottles to the US "gallon." 🤣

~Just kidding. I am already too old to see that day!

 

[cyb3rdud3]

In the UK, some idiot who performs as if a part of the government but who should actually be sent for re-education, has managed to push forward the idea of the UK allowing wine (including champagne) to be sold in pint bottles.

But not quite a pint. 568 millilitres - which is a tiny bit less than a UK Imperial pint.

Few can see the slightest sense in this. To the extent that the majority of those in the industry, let alone outsiders, think it will never actually happen.

And we will still not be able to buy wine by the glass in pints or any fraction thereof.

It also reminded me that the USA changed to measuring liquor in metric back in 1979.

The UK pint is different to the US pint (in total volume, in number of fluid ounces and even the size of the fluid ounce is different). Even if the USA still used pints for liquor, these UK pints would not be acceptable in the USA! Nor would US pint bottles be able to be sold in the UK.

Upsetting what is a very stable apple-cart for no good reason.

That part has become the news, and for Brexit lovers and haters that divisive silly part is the news. And it is true that the change in legislation allows this, and if you like you can bring back Churchill's favourite size for two at lunch, and one at dinner.

But what the legislation was really about is simplifying the law, removing limitations on types of wines vs sizes, such as sparkling wine wasn't allowed to be sold in .5l bottles whilst still wine was. And make it easier for all to do what they want.

So yes, that size is allowed and unwisely the civil service put out a press release citing that actually, but the legislation is about much more and introduces some sensible efficiency measures.

 

[polyphenol]

Is that an option or mandatory?

Either way visually a pint bottle will probably look quite similar to a standard 75 cl wine bottle. So they will probably manage to make the same price (or relatively higher) stick.

Optional.

We already allow 500 ml. Which is even closer.

The government has announced it as if there is a pent up demand across the country, that the next election will be decided on pint wine bottles. I literally cannot remember it ever being mentioned.

But it could be that not one single product will be available before the election, possibly not ever. Industry people suggest the price would, as you suggest, end up close to, the same as, or even higher than, a 750 ml bottle of the same wine.

 

[polyphenol]

That part has become the news, and for Brexit lovers and haters that divisive silly part is the news. And it is true that the change in legislation allows this, and if you like you can bring back Churchill's favourite size for two at lunch, and one at dinner.

But what the legislation was really about is simplifying the law, removing limitations on types of wines vs sizes, such as sparkling wine wasn't allowed to be sold in .5l bottles whilst still wine was. And make it easier for all to do what they want.

So yes, that size is allowed and unwisely the civil service put out a press release citing that actually, but the legislation is about much more and introduces some sensible efficiency measures.

The minor changes for 500 ml, etc., are fine.

I cannot see any simplification in allowing a new measure that would be unique to the UK. Still less justification when it appears quite likely none will ever be produced. Or just a proof of concept batch.

Any such press release would surely have at least been agreed by relevant politicians.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The minor changes for 500 ml, etc., are fine.

I cannot see any simplification in allowing a new measure that would be unique to the UK. Still less justification when it appears quite likely none will ever be produced. Or just a proof of concept batch.

Any such press release would surely have at least been agreed by relevant politicians.

I think you miss the point. The legislation didn’t introduce new sizes, it removed the limitation on having different sizes. The news articles is what is turning it into a brexit pro/against decisive silly story by focussing on this pint size. The facts are that size wasn’t introduced; it’s just that the restrictions that prevented that being introduced have been removed.

 

[polyphenol]

I think you miss the point. The legislation didn’t introduce new sizes, it removed the limitation on having different sizes. The news articles is what is turning it into a brexit pro/against decisive silly story by focussing on this pint size. The facts are that size wasn’t introduced; it’s just that the restrictions that prevented that being introduced have been removed.

And the point of that specific change?

The sole justification is a political statement. The press release says:

‘Pint’ size wine stocked on Britain’s shelves for the first time ever thanks to new freedoms from leaving the European Union

Which is a lie. The quantity is not an Imperial pint (albeit by a small amount). There is no stock on any shelves.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Who cares what measures they sell wine in? When I used to buy beer in cans or bottles I would make my purchase based on the best value for money.
It would make no difference if they were pint sized, 500 ml or 750 ml. I just buy whichever was the cheapest by volume.

 

[polyphenol]

Who cares what measures they sell wine in? When I used to buy beer in cans or bottles I would make my purchase based on the best value for money.
It would make no difference if they were pint sized, 500 ml or 750 ml. I just buy whichever was the cheapest by volume.

Because the more sizes are allowed, the more difficult it is to work out value.

A quick eyeball will almost always identify 500 ml vs 750 ml.

But 500 ml vs 568 ml will likely need to be checked on the label. And cunning packaging might make 568 ml look bigger than 500 ml, and even get mistaken for 750 ml by the unwary.

Across groceries, they is supposed to be shelf-edge pricing by volume. With more volumes allowed, that becomes more desirable for wine. I'm sure the retailers are looking forward to that.

And the range of small bottle volumes is already a right pain. I occasionally buy one for cooking. But it is all too easy to get one that is smaller than I need - have to check each and every bottle.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

And the point of that specific change?

Efficiency, sustainability in production setup. Combined with being able to sell wine in same size bottles; i.e. sparkling vs still wines.

The sole justification is a political statement. The press release says:

Yup, as I said, the civil service was very silly to lend themselves in doing that particular press statement. But it is down to us as the people to work with to not propagate that nonsense and look beyond it as to what is actually happening.

‘Pint’ size wine stocked on Britain’s shelves for the first time ever thanks to new freedoms from leaving the European Union

Which is a lie. The quantity is not an Imperial pint (albeit by a small amount). There is no stock on any shelves.

Yes, the stock for sparkling wines takes a while to change. And changing the size might not even happen, as the idea is to reduce the amount of glass and not have more variants. Hence, my comments that it is just a silly story, missing the point and benefits of this all together. Just created for headlines and divisiveness.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Because the more sizes are allowed, the more difficult it is to work out value.

A quick eyeball will almost always identify 500 ml vs 750 ml.

But 500 ml vs 568 ml will likely need to be checked on the label. And cunning packaging might make 568 ml look bigger than 500 ml, and even get mistaken for 750 ml by the unwary.

Across groceries, they is supposed to be shelf-edge pricing by volume. With more volumes allowed, that becomes more desirable for wine. I'm sure the retailers are looking forward to that.

And the range of small bottle volumes is already a right pain. I occasionally buy one for cooking. But it is all too easy to get one that is smaller than I need - have to check each and every bottle.

It always says what the price per millilitre is on the shelf label as far as I remember.
I’ve not bought any beer for years though. I think I’ve bought about 2-3 bottles of wine in my life. I’m not much of a drinker!

 

[eyoungren]

The UK pint is different to the US pint (in total volume, in number of fluid ounces and even the size of the fluid ounce is different). Even if the USA still used pints for liquor, these UK pints would not be acceptable in the USA! Nor would US pint bottles be able to be sold in the UK.

It is possible that as a kid I might have seen a pint-bottle (US), but I do not recall. For as long as I can recall, milk has been sold in plastic containers for the half-gallon and the gallon. There are some manufacturers that sell creamers and half & half in quart sized bottles, but for the most part milk, half & half and cream(ers) sold at the quart and pint size come in cartons.

The one glass container of roughly a pint-size that I can think of is that of Martinelli's Apple Juice. But that's a 10oz glass container and is six ounces short of being a pint.

 

[timber]

Who cares what measures they sell wine in? When I used to buy beer in cans or bottles I would make my purchase based on the best value for money.
It would make no difference if they were pint sized, 500 ml or 750 ml. I just buy whichever was the cheapest by volume.

Around here as a teenager we used to buy "litrosas" which is a nickname for a liter bottle.
The nickname became so popular that even got official use (near the top).

Still buy those today in some occasions.

Because the more sizes are allowed, the more difficult it is to work out value.

A quick eyeball will almost always identify 500 ml vs 750 ml.

But 500 ml vs 568 ml will likely need to be checked on the label. And cunning packaging might make 568 ml look bigger than 500 ml, and even get mistaken for 750 ml by the unwary.

Across groceries, they is supposed to be shelf-edge pricing by volume. With more volumes allowed, that becomes more desirable for wine. I'm sure the retailers are looking forward to that.

And the range of small bottle volumes is already a right pain. I occasionally buy one for cooking. But it is all too easy to get one that is smaller than I need - have to check each and every bottle.

I usually check the price tag for the euro/liter or euro/kg small print which is mandatory.
Don't know if it's an EU thing or just my country.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It is possible that as a kid I might have seen a pint-bottle (US), but I do not recall. For as long as I can recall, milk has been sold in plastic containers for the half-gallon and the gallon. There are some manufacturers that sell creamers and half & half in quart sized bottles, but for the most part milk, half & half and cream(ers) sold at the quart and pint size come in cartons.

The one glass container of roughly a pint-size that I can think of is that of Martinelli's Apple Juice. But that's a 10oz glass container and is six ounces short of being a pint.

Decimalisation is so much easier than these pints, quartz, gallons, oz etc. Totally alien to me. Especially when not even the UK and US use the same measurements for the same names. Absolutely barmy.

Gets even more illogical when using decimal for such measures. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

[timber]

Decimalisation is so much easier than these pints, quartz, gallons, oz etc. Totally alien to me. Especially when not even the UK and US use the same measurements for the same names. Absolutely barmy.

Gets even more illogical when using decimal for such measures. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I wonder what is used for medication.
For kids I used to administer paracetamol, ibuprofen and antibiotics (as prescribed) using a syringe (without needle, just for measuring).
The bottle has a notch to insert and you turn it upside down and get a quick ml measurement fit exactly for the kid weight.

 

[eyoungren]

Decimalisation is so much easier than these pints, quartz, gallons, oz etc. Totally alien to me. Especially when not even the UK and US use the same measurements for the same names. Absolutely barmy.

Gets even more illogical when using decimal for such measures. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Learned all that (not decimalisation) in grade school. School supplies often had the values printed on them as well.

16oz to the pint, 2 pints to the quart, 4 quarts to the gallon.

 

[eyoungren]

I wonder what is used for medication.
For kids I used to administer paracetamol, ibuprofen and antibiotics (as prescribed) using a syringe (without needle, just for measuring).
The bottle has a notch to insert and you turn it upside down and get a quick ml measurement fit exactly for the kid weight.

Mg and ml.

The US drug industry went metric a long, long time ago. I can remember when OTC drugs had both imperial and metric measurements but once manufacturers started packaging dosing cups with the drug it became easier just to memorize that.

 

[polyphenol]

Learned all that (not decimalisation) in grade school. School supplies often had the values printed on them as well.

16oz to the pint, 2 pints to the quart, 4 quarts to the gallon.

20 fluid ounces to the pint in Imperial. Hence corresponding differences in quarts and gallons.

(And UK fluid ounce not identical to US fluid ounce.)

 

[eyoungren]

20 fluid ounces to the pint in Imperial. Hence corresponding differences in quarts and gallons.

(And UK fluid ounce not identical to US fluid ounce.)

At this moment I am putting coffee in a 20oz mug. I'll raise a UK pint to your post.

 

[timber]

Learned all that (not decimalisation) in grade school. School supplies often had the values printed on them as well.

16oz to the pint, 2 pints to the quart, 4 quarts to the gallon.

Here you just learn the main unit and the scale sequence (which is more or less always the same) as dividing by ten is kind of self explanatory.
Latter you understand some shortcuts like why 1 liter of water weights 1 kg and so on.

 

[polyphenol]

Mg and ml.

The US drug industry went metric a long, long time ago. I can remember when OTC drugs had both imperial and metric measurements but once manufacturers started packaging dosing cups with the drug it became easier just to memorize that.

And micrograms!

Despite the changes, you can see the remnants of older measurements in some doses even now. For example, aspirin is often in 325 milligram tablets. Not because that extra 25 milligrams is critical for dosing, but because it is a metric version of a five grain dose.

The old Grain measures have sometimes been converted as 60 milligrams, sometimes as 65 milligrams.

And a few medicines, such as some desiccated thyroid products, are listed in grains.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Because the more sizes are allowed, the more difficult it is to work out value.

The pricing label typically will have a price per unit (what ever unit is relevant for the comparison), or the official term unit pricing. So pretty easy to work out value.

But granted there are some issues with the price marking order regulation that allows some retails some freedom to make it obtuse. Generally not a big problem with major retailers, and I'd advise to just avoid those who are non-compliant in the first place.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

US Dates are bad for your health (at least for mine...)

I got an email last night from Microsoft saying that a OneDrive account would expire on 2/1/2024 as it hadn't been used for two years. It was 1/1/2024. That meant tomorrow, to me. Panic, panic, panic.

After some faffing around with new passwords and the like, I was able to log on and press the Reactivate button.

It was only then that I realised that MS was talking to me in 'murrican dates, i.e. it would expire on Feb 1 2024, not 2 Jan 2024.

 

[timber]

Don't know the History behind it but that dating system seems like a relic from a time when civilization moved at a pace that months were more relevant than exact days.