I have been using it since the beginning. The secret is not to only focus on the apps that are profiled or show up in the top categories. Sometimes the best apps are the ones you look for yourself.
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Why the iPad Pro over the Surface Pro?
- Thread starter wba1990
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I have been using it since the beginning. The secret is not to only focus on the apps that are profiled or show up in the top categories. Sometimes the best apps are the ones you look for yourself.
Personal experience - mileage may vary but reading common issues with the surface I'm certainly not alone - I tried a surface for a year of grad school and my intention was to use it to annotate the hundreds of pdfs I read and use it for note taking. When it worked, it was great but there were countless times the pen randomly disconnected or the keyboard disconnected or the power management screwed up and I was left with no battery life out of the bag....
My second year of grad school the iPad Pro came out and I bought it and though it doesn't replace my Mac, for what it does, it works 99% of the time with no quirks or reliability issues.
Windows machines are simply just not reliable enough compared to macs or especially iOS devices. I gave it a legit shot for a year and it wasn't worth it, even if on paper it does more. If I can't count on the device, all the feature and spec lists in the world don't matter.
My second year of grad school the iPad Pro came out and I bought it and though it doesn't replace my Mac, for what it does, it works 99% of the time with no quirks or reliability issues.
Windows machines are simply just not reliable enough compared to macs or especially iOS devices. I gave it a legit shot for a year and it wasn't worth it, even if on paper it does more. If I can't count on the device, all the feature and spec lists in the world don't matter.
To be honest we are a bit biased here, so you will have to take our comments with a grain of salt.
Here's my experience:
We handed out several maxed out Surface Tablets about 2 years ago and several iPads. Within a couple of days all but one of the Surface tablets were exchanged for iPads. The die hard kept their surface tablet for 6 months before returning it. It should be noted, that they did not opt for an iPad, just stayed with a laptop. That was two years ago. The Surface Tablet has overgone some serious improvements in that time.
I currently use an iPad Pro 10.5.
And for the kicker:
https://www.consumerreports.org/lap...-tablets-not-recommended-by-consumer-reports/
Big Apple Guy here but I respect Microsoft for their innovation and success.
Really it comes down to three things:
Really it comes down to three things:
- Do you need PC functionality? If you are a person who works in Windows environments, maybe the Surface is a better suit for you. Also, you get the full Desktop UI experience for the most part. If not, you can always turn it on and off. Plus, with USB ports, you can still hot swap in devices and accessories.
- Do you just need a simple experience where you focus on what you're doing? Maybe do not feel you need a full Desktop? Some people like the iPad because it shuts the noise out. You're doing one thing at a time unless you need to do two things at once. But that's it. With iOS 11, this argument becomes a bit more moot, but a screen focused on one app at a time is the norm. Multitasking and split screen are advanced features, not default.
- Do you really want a laptop with a touch screen? A few weeks back, someone asked for a mouse on the iPad. It was a big discussion I was a big voice on. Some people just want an ultraportable touch screen. But they have the desktop schema stuck in their head and can't deal with iPad because the screen is too small. These people want a device that the Surface attempts to be.
12.9 iPad Pro - because I've had the Surface Pro (3) and a Surface Book.
I experienced issues with quality control (going through 3 surface books just last year, over major issues ranging from not being able to boot, rings on screen, and IR camera being defective). All the devices also had various levels of light bleed.
It's really more - do you want a tablet/laptop that does both jobs with tons of compromises, or what amounts to one of the best tablets available?
In the end I left the Surface devices and went with a MacBook pro/ipad pro.
I experienced issues with quality control (going through 3 surface books just last year, over major issues ranging from not being able to boot, rings on screen, and IR camera being defective). All the devices also had various levels of light bleed.
It's really more - do you want a tablet/laptop that does both jobs with tons of compromises, or what amounts to one of the best tablets available?
In the end I left the Surface devices and went with a MacBook pro/ipad pro.
If I were going the Windows route, the Surface Pro whould be my top choice.
I'm trying to break away from that platform - or any traditional desktop system like OS X for that matter.
I like the direction that the iPad and iOS is going. Yes, some trade-offs but I think the iPad is the future for mobile computing. Perhaps I'm a little early at the game, but so far enjoying it.
I'm trying to break away from that platform - or any traditional desktop system like OS X for that matter.
I like the direction that the iPad and iOS is going. Yes, some trade-offs but I think the iPad is the future for mobile computing. Perhaps I'm a little early at the game, but so far enjoying it.
That was me 2015 through 2017 for the most part. Partly because of the cost of Macs and much of what I do works better in Windows.
I really like a lot of things about the Surface Pro. Kickstand is great, connectivity is a no-brainer and it is easy to setup as a laptop replacement due to trackpad and mouse support. The main problem is the software. A coworker uses it for work and often seems to run into issues with connecting to external displays or UI issues. I use Windows 10 on my desktop PC and it's fine for the most part but as an operating system it has tons of legacy UI baggage and is an inconsistent user experience overall. It does allow more tailoring for window size etc. when multitasking though and isn't limited to just a few apps.
The iPad Pro on the other hand is a tablet device first so everything is made to work with touch. Tons of good apps available and with iOS 11 it's becoming better than ever to use. At the same time connecting anything to it puts you firmly into dongle hell with varying support for devices and working with external screens is not going to work well.
For drawing use I feel the Apple Pencil is a lot better. Though on paper both the Surface Pro pen and the Pencil perform the same, I felt drawing on the Surface Pro just didn't work anywhere near as nicely in practice. Maybe it can be configured to be better, I don't know but it felt you needed to push harder to get lines and felt more difficult to control. I have a lot of experience with Wacom tablets and the pen did not feel as nice as those to me.
Both MS and Apple have a lot of work still - MS needs to make their OS more touch-friendly and consistent, Apple needs to make it possible to run things like development software and support more external input and output devices to make it more "pro".
The iPad Pro on the other hand is a tablet device first so everything is made to work with touch. Tons of good apps available and with iOS 11 it's becoming better than ever to use. At the same time connecting anything to it puts you firmly into dongle hell with varying support for devices and working with external screens is not going to work well.
For drawing use I feel the Apple Pencil is a lot better. Though on paper both the Surface Pro pen and the Pencil perform the same, I felt drawing on the Surface Pro just didn't work anywhere near as nicely in practice. Maybe it can be configured to be better, I don't know but it felt you needed to push harder to get lines and felt more difficult to control. I have a lot of experience with Wacom tablets and the pen did not feel as nice as those to me.
Both MS and Apple have a lot of work still - MS needs to make their OS more touch-friendly and consistent, Apple needs to make it possible to run things like development software and support more external input and output devices to make it more "pro".
Most people I've met have the same cycle of thoughts on this subject. 'Oh cool! The surface is like an iPad but it can do more stuff! Buy buy buyyyy' then they get it and find that for tablet related stuff, it's really just...not a tablet. Ask the people who have gotten warm fingers as the fans turn on while watching a YouTube video. Or the people disappointed by the lack of touch friendly apps. And when it comes to other things like the real laptop computer stuff, it's under powered, has a small display and damn man. Why didn't you just buy a laptop for laptop stuff?
My iPad Pro 12.9 has replaced my laptop and I use it more than even my iPhone 7 plus.
My iPad Pro 12.9 has replaced my laptop and I use it more than even my iPhone 7 plus.
I was between the same two products, mainly the new surface pro 8/256 and either version of the new iPad Pro. Ended up with the 10.5 IPp.
The surface pro has the better keyboard, especially with the trackpad and I think i prefer the overall design a bit better, with the kickstand and angled keyboard. However, the problem with it running full windows is that it has to compete with much cheaper ultra books with the same hardware.
Although the battery life is supposedly much better on the new one (a big factor in choosing the iPad for me), there are still problems with the sleep/wake function in windows with the Smart Cover and freezing. That, combined with the consumer report just give off the whiff of unreliability even if overblown.
I really wanted to like the surface, it has the perfect screen size for a tablet hybrid, windows 10 is much improved, but I think it's a bit expensive and ends up being a decent computer but a mediocre tablet. While the iPad is a great tablet and mediocre computer,
The surface pro has the better keyboard, especially with the trackpad and I think i prefer the overall design a bit better, with the kickstand and angled keyboard. However, the problem with it running full windows is that it has to compete with much cheaper ultra books with the same hardware.
Although the battery life is supposedly much better on the new one (a big factor in choosing the iPad for me), there are still problems with the sleep/wake function in windows with the Smart Cover and freezing. That, combined with the consumer report just give off the whiff of unreliability even if overblown.
I really wanted to like the surface, it has the perfect screen size for a tablet hybrid, windows 10 is much improved, but I think it's a bit expensive and ends up being a decent computer but a mediocre tablet. While the iPad is a great tablet and mediocre computer,
Yeah I didn't realize the SP5 came out.. I read/watched a number of reviews just now. I had forgotten about the fanless m3, and just learned about the i5. That's really baffling and impressive that they were able to make it fanless without serious throttling. Kudos to MS. The battery improvement is somewhat impressive. The reviews are all over the place as far as actual numbers but all seem to agree the 13.5 hour claim is way off. Mobile tech review said it was around 8 hours with normal use (with 12.9 iPP at the claimed 10 hours). But it was hard to find a really clear battery life comparison, especially taking into account all the different configurations. In any case it's clear the improvement over the previous model's poor battery life as well as the fanless chip options are noteworthy.
I currently have a Macbook Pro, iPad Pro 12.9" (2017 model), and a Surface Book (performance base). I've also previously owned the Surface Pro (4 and 3).
I really couldn't JUST own the iPad Pro. I have too many needs for desktop software that iOS just cannot run. But, that doesn't mean I don't use the iPad Pro. I use it every day, and it's probably my favorite computing device.
Some criticize that it runs a "mobile OS", but the iPad is a mobile device! Battery life is great (and very consistent) on the iPad, and instant on/sleep is something not to overlook - it always works on the iPad. Integration with other Apple products is also great.
When I had the Surface Pro's (3, then the 4), I liked them. Windows 10 just doesn't have the range of "touch apps" like the iPad does to make using it solely as a tablet as good an experience as the iPad. But if you are just watching movies, browsing the web, reading, as a tablet it's fine.
Things I did NOT like about the Surface Pro which led me to the Surface Book... the kickstand, while cool, SUCKS on your lap. You get the Surface Pro so that you can run all those great desktop apps like you can on a laptop, but you can't really comfortably use the Surface Pro on your lap. Of course people will tell you you can, but trust me, it's nothing like using a real laptop on your lap. It falls over, it's cramped, etc. Also, although the type covers have vastly improved, the touchpad and keyboard still aren't as good as what you see on a good laptop.
I ended up selling the Surface Pro and got the Surface Book. I like it, it has a real keyboard and trackpad (though the trackpad is still not as good as a Macbook, it's good for a PC), bigger screen, and best of all I can use it as a laptop. With the removable screen, I get a tablet as well (albeit one with a 2 hour battery life in real usage). I do like the "flip the screen around" feature, it's nice for using the tablet in bed and using the base as the stand.
On all of the Surface devices I've had, Windows 10 power management is still not great. And sleep. Forget about it. All of the Surface devices I've had "turn themselves on" when closed and in a bag. I wind up with a smoking hot device and a dead battery. I don't understand why this is STILL an issue in 2017. I just shut the machine down when not in use.
So in my opinion, evaluate the use cases. If you really want tablet features, the iPad is the best you can get - but you'll probably also need another machine unless your needs are basic. Surface devices are nice too, if you can live with the kickstand and it's limitations, consider the Surface Pro. If you really want a laptop with occasional tablet use, then the Surface Book is a nice option.
I really couldn't JUST own the iPad Pro. I have too many needs for desktop software that iOS just cannot run. But, that doesn't mean I don't use the iPad Pro. I use it every day, and it's probably my favorite computing device.
Some criticize that it runs a "mobile OS", but the iPad is a mobile device! Battery life is great (and very consistent) on the iPad, and instant on/sleep is something not to overlook - it always works on the iPad. Integration with other Apple products is also great.
When I had the Surface Pro's (3, then the 4), I liked them. Windows 10 just doesn't have the range of "touch apps" like the iPad does to make using it solely as a tablet as good an experience as the iPad. But if you are just watching movies, browsing the web, reading, as a tablet it's fine.
Things I did NOT like about the Surface Pro which led me to the Surface Book... the kickstand, while cool, SUCKS on your lap. You get the Surface Pro so that you can run all those great desktop apps like you can on a laptop, but you can't really comfortably use the Surface Pro on your lap. Of course people will tell you you can, but trust me, it's nothing like using a real laptop on your lap. It falls over, it's cramped, etc. Also, although the type covers have vastly improved, the touchpad and keyboard still aren't as good as what you see on a good laptop.
I ended up selling the Surface Pro and got the Surface Book. I like it, it has a real keyboard and trackpad (though the trackpad is still not as good as a Macbook, it's good for a PC), bigger screen, and best of all I can use it as a laptop. With the removable screen, I get a tablet as well (albeit one with a 2 hour battery life in real usage). I do like the "flip the screen around" feature, it's nice for using the tablet in bed and using the base as the stand.
On all of the Surface devices I've had, Windows 10 power management is still not great. And sleep. Forget about it. All of the Surface devices I've had "turn themselves on" when closed and in a bag. I wind up with a smoking hot device and a dead battery. I don't understand why this is STILL an issue in 2017. I just shut the machine down when not in use.
So in my opinion, evaluate the use cases. If you really want tablet features, the iPad is the best you can get - but you'll probably also need another machine unless your needs are basic. Surface devices are nice too, if you can live with the kickstand and it's limitations, consider the Surface Pro. If you really want a laptop with occasional tablet use, then the Surface Book is a nice option.
I wanted a tablet for my only computer and not another laptop. Windows/macOS is very stale to me.
I’ve used a Surface Pro 4, well, I still use it sometimes, but it’s not specifically mine, and it’s pretty awesome device. 2 main reasons I went with the iPad again and not the Surface is because I’m pretty invested in iOS with its apps (been here since the AppStore released with the iPod Touch), and the Surface is way to heavy for how I use the iPad. I also already have a desktop with windows for stuff that isn’t on the iPad as well.
I don't have a Surface Pro, but I've had one of the HP copycats for a year and I've got an iPad Pro:
Surface Pro is kind of a laptop first, tablet second. I know a lot of people don't agree with me, but I don't think Windows 10 is very good for touchscreens. Even Edge is harder to use than with a mouse, and apps are very much lacking in the Windows Store so you have to use the designed for a mouse programs instead.
An iPad Pro is a tablet with some laptop features. It's great for media consumption, drawing, and simple writing. It becomes a pain when you need the precision of a mouse and most games/software that's on OS X/PC aren't available despite the very powerful hardware.
Really since you already have a laptop I'd just get an iPad. We're still not at the point where one can replace the other perfectly without some handicap
Surface Pro is kind of a laptop first, tablet second. I know a lot of people don't agree with me, but I don't think Windows 10 is very good for touchscreens. Even Edge is harder to use than with a mouse, and apps are very much lacking in the Windows Store so you have to use the designed for a mouse programs instead.
An iPad Pro is a tablet with some laptop features. It's great for media consumption, drawing, and simple writing. It becomes a pain when you need the precision of a mouse and most games/software that's on OS X/PC aren't available despite the very powerful hardware.
Really since you already have a laptop I'd just get an iPad. We're still not at the point where one can replace the other perfectly without some handicap
My wife has a Surface Pro 4, and had endless problems with it, both hardware and software. She declared that next time she will buy a Mac. But she likes the dual use. It has completely replaced her use of her iPad.
To me the idea of having one device that does double duty is very attractive in principle. Now I always have to lug around two devices, a MacBook and an iPad pro. I wish that at least when I travel I could just bring the iPad pro, but it's not there yet. Yet, the MS idea seems better as an ideal than in practice. The combination of MacBook+iPad pro is much stronger than the single surface Pro (but of course also a lot pricier).
Have a 15 MBP, 12.9 iPad, 10.5 iPad and a Surface Pro 4 for work (I work at a software company). Love my iPads for consumption and LIGHT work, but for my uses, unless they ever give mouse and real access to the file system, it will be a secondary device as it's just too limiting. I envy the people whose workflow doesn't need those as they can get by with a single device. As for the Windows stability issue, my Surface Pro has been more far more stable than my MBP has been. In my experience, each release of Windows gets more stable and each release of OS X is less stable.
MS basically approaches it from the wrong direction. It's easier to make a tablet interface work with a mouse and keyboard than try to make a desktop inteface work with a pointer much larger than the mouse cursor. While MS's solution allows you to run any Windows software you want, it hampers usability as a tablet device quite a bit. It's a difficult issue because on the iPad you run into the problem where you can't connect the devices you need or can't run some very specific software because either Apple doesn't allow it (for example development software that needs NodeJS and a terminal to build) or there is no equivalent tablet version available.
Microsoft has a bigger hill to climb because getting Windows developers to even update their software to match Windows 10 visual guides and usability seems to be impossible whereas Apple has developers willing to do that as witnessed by OSX and iOS visual changes.
Surface Pro if you want a real laptop replacement. If you want a better tablet - iPad is a better experience.
For me, the deciding factor, though, is the Apple Pencil. As an illustrator, the quality of the pen is the most important aspect (especially now that there is really good illustration software on the iPad) and Apple Pencil is still a lot better for drawing than the Surface pen (though if you want just to scribble notes, both are fine).
Also, for me, iPad is a companion device. I carry my MBP and iPad Pro with me and it's the best combination for me. Surface is, in a way, both of these devices in just one device (which is certainly a plus) - but the quality of both "parts" is, in my opinion, lower. iPad is a better tablet and offers better drawing experience while MBP is a better computer (15" is quad core and, of course, macOS).
However, this obviously doesn't apply to everyone. Surface seems like a good computer. If you like Windows, that is.
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Exactly. Currently, a lot of my workflow requires a mouse, also, standard computers are still more flexible when it comes to certain things (window management, file management, etc.) But, mostly, it comes down to the mouse and keyboard - and I wonder if this is just me set in my old ways and if I will be able to all these precise UI things on a tablet one day.
However - when it just comes to illustration, iPad Pro blows everything else - from Wacoms to Surfaces - out of the water. Also, it is best for tablet stuff, like reading comics or surfing websites from the couch.
For me, the current solution is a MBP 15" and the iPad Pro. I love this combination, I prefer it to the Surface in many ways, though I hope one day I will be able to have all that in one device.
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I agree 100%
The iPad Pro is not better or worse than the Surface Pro. The iPad is a tablet running iOS, Surface Pro is a Windows laptop. Different tools.
For me:
If you want an Apple tablet, get the iPad.
If you want a light portable laptop, get the retina Macbook.
If you want a Windows laptop, get a Windows laptop from Lenovo/Dell/etc.
The Surface Pro is actually not very desirable at this point. It doesn't really have good value unless you will use the pen.
1. You have to buy the keyboard, and also the pen, each separately. Might as well buy an actual laptop.
2. It only has one single USB-A port. This is ridiculous for a "pro" laptop, and for the price MS is charging. And people are complaining about Apple going USB-C.
3. Older Surface Pros are still suffering bugs and glitches that MS doesn't/cannot fix. I have a Surface Pro 4, and it has screen flickering issues even after numerous updates.
4. The only redeeming factor is that the Surface Pro runs a clean Windows OS, so no OEM junk.
For me:
If you want an Apple tablet, get the iPad.
If you want a light portable laptop, get the retina Macbook.
If you want a Windows laptop, get a Windows laptop from Lenovo/Dell/etc.
The Surface Pro is actually not very desirable at this point. It doesn't really have good value unless you will use the pen.
1. You have to buy the keyboard, and also the pen, each separately. Might as well buy an actual laptop.
2. It only has one single USB-A port. This is ridiculous for a "pro" laptop, and for the price MS is charging. And people are complaining about Apple going USB-C.
3. Older Surface Pros are still suffering bugs and glitches that MS doesn't/cannot fix. I have a Surface Pro 4, and it has screen flickering issues even after numerous updates.
4. The only redeeming factor is that the Surface Pro runs a clean Windows OS, so no OEM junk.
When going for a macbook+iPad combo as a mobile solution, I don't think it is necessary to go for an iPad Pro. I am currently engaged in an internal struggle between using my 12.9 Pro or my 11"MBA+iPad Mini 4 for mobile. I switch between those 2 options every couple of days... the MBA+Mini is starting to win out.
By carefully seeking for bargains, my 11" MBA and iPad Mini 4 combined cost less than a comparable Surface Pro+TypeCover.
I got a Surface 3 loaded w/ docking station & pen. 4GB/128GBSSD. My co-worker (biggest PC fanboy/mac-hater) got the Surface 3 Pro version 8GB/256GB.
We got them for a client project. I was eagerly excited to get it. Free is free. Now, both sit on our desks doing nothing. I was surprise he didn't pick it up and use it over his MB Air 2013 i5.
I tried to make it work for me. I do software dev and dabble in Lightroom. I installed Cygwin so I can get a semi UNIX/NIX environment.
I put Adobe CC on it so I could use Lightroom in the field. In the end, it was just plain cumbersome.
I already have a loaded Macbook Pro 15" Retina to do serious work. So the idea of running Lightroom/Photoshop anywhere was enticing. On paper, really great idea. Day to day, not so great.
I even loaded it up w/ 256GB microSD for extra storage. But it was very slow. I have the pen and it just wasn't working. The icons are too small. Start-up time took the fun out of it.
If it was my only computer, I could probably make it work. But the on-screen keyboard of Windows is a joke. Apps take a time to load up and the UI is too small even at 200% DPI.
I ended up getting the iPad 10.5 (with my own money) and even though I don't have Photoshop or Lightroom on it, I get more mileage with it using Affinity Photo, Luma Fusion with the Pen. I love picking it up to do retouching on the go. It is a different workflow but it is really immersive. I can still do all the little things I need like SSH into a Linux server and write notes/articles w/ Office/Page. It is a very practical device for my use case.
They're different machines. If the Surface 3/4 was the only device, I guess it could work but having a fast Macbook Pro, it didn't make any sense.
The iPad Pro is a good complimentary device.
We got them for a client project. I was eagerly excited to get it. Free is free. Now, both sit on our desks doing nothing. I was surprise he didn't pick it up and use it over his MB Air 2013 i5.
I tried to make it work for me. I do software dev and dabble in Lightroom. I installed Cygwin so I can get a semi UNIX/NIX environment.
I put Adobe CC on it so I could use Lightroom in the field. In the end, it was just plain cumbersome.
I already have a loaded Macbook Pro 15" Retina to do serious work. So the idea of running Lightroom/Photoshop anywhere was enticing. On paper, really great idea. Day to day, not so great.
I even loaded it up w/ 256GB microSD for extra storage. But it was very slow. I have the pen and it just wasn't working. The icons are too small. Start-up time took the fun out of it.
If it was my only computer, I could probably make it work. But the on-screen keyboard of Windows is a joke. Apps take a time to load up and the UI is too small even at 200% DPI.
I ended up getting the iPad 10.5 (with my own money) and even though I don't have Photoshop or Lightroom on it, I get more mileage with it using Affinity Photo, Luma Fusion with the Pen. I love picking it up to do retouching on the go. It is a different workflow but it is really immersive. I can still do all the little things I need like SSH into a Linux server and write notes/articles w/ Office/Page. It is a very practical device for my use case.
They're different machines. If the Surface 3/4 was the only device, I guess it could work but having a fast Macbook Pro, it didn't make any sense.
The iPad Pro is a good complimentary device.
Ah, was just going to say it came with the pen, but not anymore with the new Surface.
One is a windows laptop which can do some tablet stuff, the other is an iPad. Really depends what you are in the market for. I don't consider either to be in the same market segment.