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That is just whacky. I put the large keyboard on and it is just fine with the mouse where it is.
 
Sorry but that sounds whacky, do you have any write ups on how the lack of the numpad increases the ergonomics?
All I have is in Dutch. There is some documentation from school (yes, school taught us about RSI) but also from a lot of patient interest groups (Reuma fonds, RSI-patiëntenvereniging), RSI specialists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, "bedrijfsarts" (company doctor in English?) and so on. It is quite normal that people who have issues with their shoulder are issued these small keyboards. Usually they are from a Dutch company called Bakker Elkhuizen (probably better known here for their tablet riser they wanted to crowd fund). They have some more info about this matter (it's in Dutch so use Google Translate; they do refer to other peoples research). Another more in-depth and medical look at it is from the Dutch RSI-patiëntenvereniging: Keyboards (Dutch) and mice (that first point looks very familiar doesn't it? ;)).

Another thing is that there is EU regulation about this matter. The exact details vary from EU member to EU member. In case of .nl there is a requirement concerning the keyboard where keys and layout should make operating the device easier/more comfortable. If you want to read more about it: devices & furniture (Dutch only)

I mean if it really was an improvement on ergonomics, don't you think everyone else will be copying apple?
For the same reason why they are still selling keyboards with the same layout we had on typewriters (those layouts were about not having hammers get stuck due to quick typing, not about comfort), mechanical keyboards are a niche product and so on. Ergonomics isn't on top of the list when it comes to computers, every product that does have ergonomics in mind is a niche product. Just take a look at the price (rubber dome keyboard: 10 euro, mechanical version: 100 euro). Differently put: if I were going to spend that much money on something like an Apple keyboard it better be ergonomic! If not then it is no better then every other "cheap" product (Apple is actually on the higher end of the rubber dome spectrum) and those come at the fraction of the price you have to pay for the Apple keyboard.

Back in the 70s and 80s you didn't have keyboards with arrow keys or a numpad. They all were of the small type (not having arrow keys is the reason why vi/vim uses hjkl for moving around). IBM also had a small keyboard called the SpaceSaver keyboard which also came without a numpad. There have been others throughout the years and among the keyboard aficionados the small keyboards are very popular (the most known one is the Happy Hacking Keyboard both the first and second version). Those are even smaller. There's a special name for the keyboards that are only lacking the numpad: tenkeyless (TKL). The reason we've gotten keyboards with numpads has to do with the increasing use of keyboards for accountants and the like, people who work a lot with digits. And what would be the most logical place for something like that? On the right because most people are right handed. At that time nobody knew anything about RSI. Luckily we also have separate numpads either wired or wireless (via BT).

We used to type on mechanical keyboards only until they came up with rubber dome. This was a welcome change in the very competitive PC market. The rubber dome switch allowed for much cheaper keyboards, you could buy 10 of those for just 1 mechanical one. That's why we have so many rubber dome ones and so little mechanical ones. It's not because they are better, they are far worse because the actuation point is at the very bottom. That means hitting the bottom of the keyboards continuously which is basically the same thing as driving your car into a wall. A lot of people have aching fingers due to this and couple with artritis this is even worse. Mechanical keyboards have the actuation point somewhere near the middle or the top which leaves space for you to stop the pressing down motion. That way you don't hit the bottom (aka you stop well before the wall).

TL;DR: quantity != quality and quantity != good ergonomics and quantity != comfort.
The fact that some of you are marking this as "whacky" is taletelling: most people have no idea about things like ergonomics, carpal tunnel syndrome, RSI and so on. They've simply never heard about it. In a computer driven society that is quite alarming.
 
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Thank you, that is one fantastic post! As you seem to know a whole lot about this (no sarcasm!) how would you judge the rMB keyboard? Personally I found it terrible, but many others say they got used to it and love it, and I wondered how ergonomic it is, say, compared to Air's keyboard.
 
I haven't got that much experience with it, just a bit of typing in the store. I'm used to clicky keyboards (using a mechanical one with Cherry MX Blue switches) and this keyboard is the first rubber dome one that comes really really close to it. No idea if I will feel the same after doing some extensive typing on it though. The short key travel is not something that bothered me due to it being clicky and probably also because I'm used to mechanical keyboards (the actuation point is quite shallow on those too, I think it was about 3mm). As for ergonomics I don't think there is much difference between the MBA and MB keyboards, the biggest difference is comfort or how typing feels for you. In the end it is still personal preference.
 
I don't like it either. I ordered the usual big wired keyboard with my new Retina iMac.

When it turned up I found out Apple had altered it though. The plastic on the keys is textured and a lot thinner and lighter, which just meant the keys rattled.

I kept my 2011 Apple keyboard and bundled the new one in with my old iMac on eBay
 
If you are ordering the iMac from Apple you can elect to get the wired keyboard instead. It would be nice if they sold the iMac in places like Best Buy without the mouse and keyboard since they are not package deals where they are cheaper. Then these customers could pick out which one they want at the time of purchase separately.
 
I just bought a 27" iMac and the one thing that bothers me is the tiny keyboard. Why does a monster computer have a compact kb? What space are they trying to save? The monitor already dominates the space.

I have a full size KB from my prior iMac that will work much better, except it is wired. It'll do for now.

This is Apple. Small, minimalist, cutting edge. Remove all the things that aren't needed and some of the things that are, then put it into the smallest housing possible.
[doublepost=1452268443][/doublepost]The biggest issue I find with Apple keyboards is the aluminum is freezing cold to the touch to use in winter time. That's why I generally use plastic keyboards in winter and avoid aluminum laptops. Is this just me or does anybody else notice this?
 
This is Apple. Small, minimalist, cutting edge. Remove all the things that aren't needed and some of the things that are, then put it into the smallest housing possible.
[doublepost=1452268443][/doublepost]The biggest issue I find with Apple keyboards is the aluminum is freezing cold to the touch to use in winter time. That's why I generally use plastic keyboards in winter and avoid aluminum laptops. Is this just me or does anybody else notice this?
The laptops heat up fast.
 
The keycaps are plastic and most of the bottom of the keyboard is too. Only the edges are exposed aluminium and can feel cold in winter (that's metal for ya!). It's only a real issue when moving the keyboard.

In case of notebooks it's different because the area you are resting your wrists on is also aluminium. As Daisy81 already said, it's only a problem when the notebook hasn't been running for a while and it goes away rather quickly.
 
As an acountant, I really hate the fact that Apple does not produce their own numeric wireless keyboard. I really like to have everything designed the same, so a non-Apple wirelles numeric keyboard is a no go for me. I bet there would be tons of people that would buy a wireless numeric Apple keyboard.
I have no idea why they still haven't produced one yet...
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/KPA28BTW/
[doublepost=1452387132][/doublepost]
I wish Jony wanted full-size arrow keys. Gaming on this thing sucks.
You use the arrow keys for gaming? Generally it's WASD.
 
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/KPA28BTW/
[doublepost=1452387132][/doublepost]
You use the arrow keys for gaming? Generally it's WASD.
I have always used the arrow keys. WASD is fine, but they are just an arrangement of keys in the middle of the keyboard, while the arrow keys were usually at the edge of many keyboards, making it easier for me to find my place if I had to take my fingers off the directional keys temporarily.
 
I have always used the arrow keys. WASD is fine, but they are just an arrangement of keys in the middle of the keyboard, while the arrow keys were usually at the edge of many keyboards, making it easier for me to find my place if I had to take my fingers off the directional keys temporarily.

Just wondering :). Back in the Marathon days, the default keys for movement were the arrow keys, even then I didn't like it.
 
When I first got my iMac I was all thumbs with this small keyboard, I was always pressing the wrong keys. However, over time I have gotten used to it and now I don't even notice the smallness of the keyboard. My problem now is when I go to a normal size keyboard the problem of hitting the wrong keys once again makes its appearance. o_O:)
 
You use the arrow keys for gaming? Generally it's WASD.
I can imagine lefties using the arrow keys: left hand = mouse, right = keyboard, arrows are near right hand, wasd is near left hand and makes for a very cramped position. Besides that, a lot of people don't use wasd for the same reason why a lot of people don't use hjkl (what you'd use in vi/vim): arrow keys are used everywhere, it's basically muscle memory.

The older iMac did as well, but I guess the keyboard isn't connected to the computer on the iMacs ;)
Except that Apple keyboards never had aluminium keys and people hardly move their keyboard around ;) The problem is with the notebooks, not with the external keyboard.

@Strider64: try keyboards with different layouts, a horizontal enter-key vs a vertical one :mad:
 
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