Will Apps replace the Internet as we know it?

[KnightWRX]

However, I noted that I was not wrong, just that there are two schools of thought

2 schools of thought... Let's see...

Since the widespread deployment of the Internet Protocol Suite in the early 1980s, the Internet standards-setting bodies and technical infrastructure organizations, such as the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), the Internet Society, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), the World Wide Web Consortium, and others, have consistently spelled the name of the world-wide network, the Internet, with an initial capital letter and treated it as a proper noun in the English language.

So, on the one hand, we have the people who manage and regulate Internet standards. They are pro-Capitalization. Little known guys (*thick sarcasm*) like the IETF, W3C, ICANN... heck even IBM.

Then we have :

Many publications today disregard the historical development and use the term in its common noun spelling, arguing that it has become a generic medium of communication.

Magazines and other "journalists" with no regards to history...

So, if you think "your school of thought" has any validity here, that says a lot about your credibility on the matter. Sorry, but permitting the co-opting of our jargon by the layman and mass media is not something I tolerate. They have destroyed enough of it in the past (see hacker vs cracker as a prime example). This goes for this whole thread really. What a nightmare of misused jargon this has been.

In my mind, you're wrong. You adhere to the wrong school of thought, one that is based in pure idiocy. "A generic medium of communication" still has a proper noun for a name that requires capitalization.

 

[snberk103]

2 schools of thought... Let's see...

So, on the one hand, we have the people who manage and regulate Internet standards. They are pro-Capitalization. Little known guys (*thick sarcasm*) like the IETF, W3C, ICANN... heck even IBM.

Then we have :

Magazines and other "journalists" with no regards to history...

I'm sorry, but can be as sarcastic as you like.... it still doesn't make me wrong. From the article you linked...

More recently, a significant number of publications have switched to not capitalizing the noun internet. Among them are The Economist, the Financial Times, The Times, the Guardian, the Observer and the Sydney Morning Herald. As of 2011, most publications using "internet" appear to be located outside of North America, but the gap is closing. Wired News, an American news source, adopted the lower-case spelling in 2004. Around April 2010, CNN shifted its house style to adopt the lowercase spelling.

As we know, it is the media that drives what is accepted as 'common' usage - and then accepted by people as the correct usage. From the same article....

As Internet connectivity has expanded, it has started to be seen as a service similar to television, radio, and telephone, and the word has come to be used in this way (e.g. "I have the internet at home" and "I saw it on (the) internet"). For this type of use, English spelling and grammar do not prescribe whether the article or capitalization are to be used, which explains the inconsistency that exists in practice.

So, it seems - with apologies - that in fact there are two schools of thought. This doesn't make you wrong when you use it as a proper noun, nor does it make me wrong when I choose to use it as a common noun.

So, if you think "your school of thought" has any validity here, that says a lot about your credibility on the matter.

Also the validity of CNN, FT, Sidney Morning Herald, The Economist, etc etc... I'd say I'm in a well regarded school of thought, actually.

Sorry, but permitting the co-opting of our jargon by the layman and mass media is not something I tolerate.

Sorry, but that is not up to you...

They have destroyed enough of it in the past (see hacker vs cracker as a prime example). This goes for this whole thread really. What a nightmare of misused jargon this has been.

Jargon is so often used by the elite to keep the un-initiated in their place. It's when the jargon is co-opted into common usage that we know that the (in this case) technology is being broadly accepted. Sorry, but that is the history of the way our language evolves.

In my mind, you're wrong. You adhere to the wrong school of thought, one that is based in pure idiocy.

You are allowed to think that, and I'm sorry that you do. It doesn't make you right (about me being wrong) but it is a free country. The difference is... I don't believe your capitalization is wrong... I just think that your effort to 'correct' my spelling is wrong. Especially when it is clear that there isn't a consensus on which usage is now 'correct'. And, sorry, but I also think your attitude is less than polite. But like I said, it's a free country and you are free to be rude if you want. But I don't think it helps you make your points.

 

[KnightWRX]

Also the validity of CNN, FT, Sidney Morning Herald, The Economist, etc etc... I'd say I'm in a well regarded school of thought, actually.

Yes, because journalist know better than the people who invented and manage the network itself.

Keep living in your world defined by the ignorant mass media.

 

[snberk103]

Yes, because journalist know better than the people who invented and manage the network itself.

Keep living in your world defined by the ignorant mass media.

I apologize that I am not making myself clear. What is considered correct English usage is in fact determined by the media, as a reflection of what people are actually using in their everyday language use. That is why you don't hear "doth" and "thou" much anymore. It's not because some experts decreed it...it's because people stopped using those words. Against the advice of the experts. So hang onto your "doths" and "thous" for as long as you want. But that doesn't change the fact that the English language, as reflected in the media, seems to have other ideas. I'm not saying you are wrong to capitalize The Internet .... just that this is not the only accepted usage. Note that I am not even claiming it is the "correct" usage... because that implies you would be wrong. I am saying that there are more than one accepted usages... and since English does not have a central governing body.... "accepted" is about as "correct" as the language gets. Unlike the French, who like to have a government body tell them how to speak.

 

[mscriv]

This goes for this whole thread really. What a nightmare of misused jargon this has been.

Knight, seriously, calm down my good friend. I'm not sure if you intend to, but you really are coming across quite pompous. The whole point of a forum is to discuss interesting topics and learn things from each other. I admitted right up front that I'm not a techie and thus I don't use the proper "jargon" or vocabulary. However, I think I expressed myself quite clearly in regards to what my intent was. I even apologized and restated things to make it more clear and posted links for additional information.

I get into discussions with people all the time regarding mental health and counseling (my field of education and profession) where terms are butchered, confused, and misused. If I understand the person's point then there's no need to correct their error in an arrogant way. Those people haven't studied the field like I have and thus are limited to "layman" understanding and terminology. If there is something they do need to be educated about then I try to do that in a humble and encouraging way.

There is no doubt that you know more about computers, networks, and protocols than I do. Instead of proving your superiority and getting upset by unintended misuse of "jargon" or misunderstanding regarding a few things, how about you break things down for the uneducated masses like me and stay on topic as opposed to bashing what you perceive to be wrong with the discussion.

In all honesty I think you have good intentions, but you are being way too literal/concrete in your thinking and a little arrogant in believing you should go around correcting everyone. Snberk103 picked up on it right away and has been mercilessly "playing you like a drum" in picking on the capitalization thing. You've got to realize that he/she doesn't care, but is just carrying on because it bothers you. (Post #22 made me chuckle)

Last, in response to:

I alone and the forum rules decide what comments are or are not necessary. Correcting people on the misuse of terminology is important to keep discussion from getting confused and going into incorrect assumptions like "I've replaced the Internet on my computer with AT&T using these apps instead". Which is completely confused.

Same as your thread title really. It is confusing to the layman. Applications cannot replace the Internet. You need another network to do that. Going back to segregated content providers like the various BBS systems, AOL, Compuserv or MSN, things we had in the 90s, is not the topic you want to discuss I believe.

I'll refer you to the actual rules.

8. Corrections. There is no need to point out another poster's spelling or grammatical errors unless you think it is causing confusion. Remember that not all members are native English speakers. Communication, not correctness, is our goal. Examples: Don't correct members who spell Mac in all caps or who call the iPod touch an iTouch. When other people (especially new members) fail to search and start new threads on old topics, don't scold them or make them feel unwelcome. The best way to be helpful is by posting a link to a relevant thread or specific instructions for problem solving. Set a good example yourself by searching first before starting a thread if you have a question that may already have been answered in the forums or you want to discuss a topic that may already have been discussed. The exception is articles appearing on our Front Page, Mac Blog, and iOS Blog. These entries are created by our professional staff. If you notice a spelling or grammar error in these articles, please send an e-mail to tips@macrumors.com.

10. Common sense. In the end, use common sense. When you are about to post messages just to increase your post count, or post something you think is funny at someone else's expense, think to yourself "Is this annoying?" If the answer is yes, don't do it.

 

[KnightWRX]

Knight, seriously, calm down my good friend.

I have no emotion towards forum conversations.

Last, in response to:

I'll refer you to the actual rules.

No where have I corrected grammatical or spelling errors nor have I posted to increase my post count or ridicule people. I have again posted to prevent further confusion in an already confused thread due to blatant misuse of technological terminology pertaining to networks and the Internet in general.

Contrary to what our friend snberk believes, jargon is not used to keep the laymen in ignorance, it is used to properly discuss topics of such complexity. There is nothing that prevents learning said jargon, there is no elite. That's something people that are actually too lazy to learn the proper terminology think. I wasn't born knowing this stuff, I learned it.

 

[mscriv]

I have no emotion towards forum conversations.

Well Mr. Spock, let me suggest a few you might want to try on for size: kindness, humility, compassion, generosity, benevolence, courtesy, hospitality, grace, patience, thoughtfulness, tolerance, etc, etc..

No where have I corrected grammatical or spelling errors nor have I posted to increase my post count or ridicule people. I have again posted to prevent further confusion in an already confused thread due to blatant misuse of technological terminology pertaining to networks and the Internet in general.

It's just my opinion, but you are certainly correcting grammar when you tell someone to capitalize something. Additionally, you are right on the edge of the "common sense" rule in being "annoying" with how you are criticizing people for how they are communicating. Seriously, you can't expect a "layman" to correctly use terms they haven't been taught or to understand concepts with which they aren't familiar. Instead of correcting and being condescending, be helpful and understanding.

 

[snberk103]

.... Snberk103 picked up on it right away and has been mercilessly "playing you like a drum" in picking on the capitalization thing. You've got to realize that he/she doesn't care, but is just carrying on because it bothers you. ...

Guilty has charged -

Knight - I was having some fun at your expense. I apologize, for real, for pushing your buttons. I don't agree with you about the Internet... but I do respect your right for standing up for what you believe.

....
Contrary to what our friend snberk believes, jargon is not used to keep the laymen in ignorance, it is used to properly discuss topics of such complexity. There is nothing that prevents learning said jargon, there is no elite. That's something people that are actually too lazy to learn the proper terminology think. I wasn't born knowing this stuff, I learned it.

Jargon itself is not the problem, it's the people who use it. I am not in any way pointing the finger at you in this case, but it is very common for people in some professions to use jargon to exclude non-members. This is a reflection on those people in particular and not jargon in general. Absolutely I agree that specialists can/should use jargon among themselves in order to communicate more clearly.

I am a photographer, and among photographers I use photographic jargon naturally. Among non-photographers I am more flexible in the language I use, and the language I understand. Where we are different is that I wouldn't correct a non-photographer in the use of the jargon unless it was actually getting in the way of communicating, or unless they were studying photography.

The flexibility of the English language is both its weakness and its strength.

-------------

Getting back on topic. Yes. I think Apps are going to change the InterWebz (couldn't resist ) as we know it. Apps will find, tabulate data from the reams of raw information out there - and present that data to users in a simple and understandable way. While a browser can do the same thing, it often brings more overhead and complexity than required. An app can be small and fast. And the way that the data is presented can be customized easier within an app.

 

[smoledman]

No, the web will be a 50/50 split between rich-client apps and HTML5 sites within 4-5 years.

 

[KnightWRX]

Well Mr. Spock, let me suggest a few you might want to try on for size: kindness, humility, compassion, generosity, benevolence, courtesy, hospitality, grace, patience, thoughtfulness, tolerance, etc, etc...

Let me reply to you (and this is my last reply in this train wreck) using your own words :

Additionally, you are right on the edge of the "common sense" rule in being "annoying" ...

Btw, "Mr. Spock" = insult, banned by the forum rules. Thanks for the lecture, might want to follow your own advice there. I'm not some lost lamb you need to preach to. Keep it to yourself. If you don't like what I have to say and don't want to learn the proper terminology, there is such a thing as an ignore list on Macrumors. Use it.