Will Microsoft cancel the Surface?

[Yebubbleman]

The Surface product line is not like other consumer or even business class computer product lines. It's akin to the Google Nexus phones of old. It's the "Here is a cool first party Windows computer that comes with no bloatware and whose drivers are baked in and managed exclusively via Windows Update". The closest thing Microsoft has to a Mac in the "the OS manufacturer is also the hardware vendor" sense. They don't need to release them often. The people they cater to largely don't care. Sales being down is likely not something that would matter to them as much as literally any other computer manufacturer.

It’s not a good look from a company that looks already desperate when it comes to the PC market. It really comes across in their ads.

They look desperate, how? It's a crap economy and they still vastly dominate the personal computer market even with Apple Silicon being as Gee-whiz as it is. They do not live and die by how well Surface is adopted.

Surface is landfill. We're seeing 2 in 5 failure rate in 18 months. About 2% don't even work when we get them. Also impossible to repair so after 12 months we have to send them to the recycler. Service is garbage as well in the UK.

Surface Laptop 3 and 4 made great strides in this regard. People should not be buying the Surface Pros and expecting that they'll replace a Dell Latitude, HP EliteBook, or Lenovo ThinkPad. Similarly, anything with the word "Go" on it is a toy, not a computer meant for prime time.

Back to Dell and Lenovo it is.

Everyone likes to pick on Apple but Microsoft churn out garbage hardware and garbage software constantly. Ire needs directing more towards them.

Considering that Apple wholesale revamps macOS every year, breaks things in the process and doesn't devote enough time and energy to fixing them, I'd say the ire is well warranted. Microsoft's feature updates in Windows 10 and Windows 11 don't break things that bad or even that often.

As for Surface hardware, yeah, a lot of it is not worth getting. Doesn't mean that the ones worth getting are crap. Just that you have cheap options that should be avoided. Mac users should already be familiar with this concept.

My biggest complaint is that Microsoft doesn't use current gen components, they're always one or two generations behind. I still remember the Surface Studio being unveiled for the first time, and it actually was using a 5400 rpm spinning drive.

This is 10000% a problem that they have. The infrequent release cycles don't help with that either.

 

[russell_314]

They look desperate, how?

Just watch their ads. If you don’t see it, then you don’t see it but it’s quite obvious.

It's a crap economy and they still vastly dominate the personal computer market even with Apple Silicon being as Gee-whiz as it is. They do not live and die by how well Surface is adopted.

Yes and everyone else is in this crap economy and they don’t look so desperate. Microsoft has the home computing industry locked down with Windows, so overall I think they’re fine but that’s not the image they’re projecting.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Just watch their ads. If you don’t see it, then you don’t see it but it’s quite obvious.


Yes and everyone else is in this crap economy and they don’t look so desperate. Microsoft has the home computing industry locked down with Windows, so overall I think they’re fine but that’s not the image they’re projecting.

I haven't seen these ads. But it sounds like the worst that can be said here is that their choice of ad agency sucks. Microsoft is far from desperate. And Surface is far from the only thing generating them money. They make so much money on Azure alone that everything else is utterly trivial.

 

[groove-agent]

Apple has a history of bailing on projects. While I appreciate knowing when to cut your losses, it doesn't give you confidence investing in a gadget of theirs.

I was hoping they would have continued with the Windows phone as it offered a choice other than Android OS and iOS.

 

[maflynn]

Apple has a history of bailing on projects.

You think? I mean they stuck with the touchbar and butterfly keyboard way too long. I can only think of the G4 Cube being abandoned prematurely.

 

[The_Interloper]

You think? I mean they stuck with the touchbar and butterfly keyboard way too long. I can only think of the G4 Cube being abandoned prematurely.

I think @groove-agent meant Microsoft, not Apple.

 

[LeeW]

I was hoping they would have continued with the Windows phone as it offered a choice other than Android OS and iOS.

Which one are you referring to? The Surface Duo came with Android. Or are you referring to the old Nokia ones with Windows installed?

I owned a Lumia 640. Loved that phone due to the days and days of battery life. Wasn't so keen on the Windows OS but then at that point it had already gotten to the point developers knew it was on its way out.

 

[groove-agent]

Which one are you referring to? The Surface Duo came with Android. Or are you referring to the old Nokia ones with Windows installed?

I owned a Lumia 640. Loved that phone due to the days and days of battery life. Wasn't so keen on the Windows OS but then at that point it had already gotten to the point developers knew it was on its way out.

I'm referring to the pre-Android ones. I thought they were neat as they had a Windows 8 tile thing going on which was consistent with Windows at the time.

 

[LeeW]

I thought they were neat as they had a consistent Windows 8 tile thing going on which was consistent with Windows at the time.

True, Windows mobile was far from the worst.

 

[groove-agent]

You think? I mean they stuck with the touchbar and butterfly keyboard way too long. I can only think of the G4 Cube being abandoned prematurely.

Sorry, I meant to say Windows not Apple.

 

[groove-agent]

True, Windows mobile was far from the worst.

Agreed. I think they should have just done some more polishing there. They have a good marketshare on desktops so if Microsoft created a similar and familiar interface as Windows, plus a synergetic ecosystem with Windows, I think they could have been more successful.

 

[PhoenixDown]

I think @groove-agent meant Microsoft, not Apple.

:: Google enters the conversation ::

Google: "Hold my beer and watch this!"

:: Google cancels a dozen other widely used programs because <reasons> ::

 

[burgman]

I'm referring to the pre-Android ones. I thought they were neat as they had a consistent Windows 8 tile thing going on which was consistent with Windows at the time.

Not to mention the great Nokia cameras, for the time.

 

[burgman]

If the narrative sales are tanking too cancellation might follow. Will Apple and other manufacturers do the same?

Global PC shipments slide in first quarter, Apple takes biggest hit, IDC says

Global shipments of personal computers slumped by nearly a third in the first quarter of 2023, with Apple Inc dropping the most among the market heavyweights as the industry struggles with a post-pandemic slowdown in consumer spending.

www.reuters.com

 

[maflynn]

If the narrative sales are tanking too cancellation might follow. Will Apple and other manufacturers do the same?

The question is, what is MS' goal for the Surface. Unlike other companies, Microsoft is a software company with some hardware sprinkled about. Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo. They're hardware companies with services/software sprinkled about.

The PC downturn is hitting all companies hard, but lack of sales for Surface has always been an issue, but it could be a loss leader for MS, so they're not fully expecting huge sales anyways. I'm not defending the surface but rather putting out a rhetorical question (since none of us know the answer) what is Microsoft's goal with the surface line?

 

[ericwn]

Windows is a complete operating system; iPadOS is not. That’s why everybody who wants an iPad to act like a Surface is disappointed.

Not that it would have any relevance to the topic of course.

 

[burgman]

The question is, what is MS' goal for the Surface. Unlike other companies, Microsoft is a software company with some hardware sprinkled about. Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo. They're hardware companies with services/software sprinkled about.

The PC downturn is hitting all companies hard, but lack of sales for Surface has always been an issue, but it could be a loss leader for MS, so they're not fully expecting huge sales anyways. I'm not defending the surface but rather putting out a rhetorical question (since none of us know the answer) what is Microsoft's goal with the surface line?

I thought that Microsoft wouldn't build Surface devices that would directly compete with their top end PC manufacturer customers. They talked Surface as a tech and software showcase then consistently released not that. The no bloat was tossed with all the Windows add ons that reappeared every update. The earlier releases, compared to others available, were good devices. Then they threw in the towel on the tablet experience, then closed the retail stores. Astounding that it's a 7 billion dollar business with never reaching 3% of PC shipments.
Microsoft Surface is nearly a $7 billion business after a decade (cnbc.com)

 

[Falhófnir]

Not to mention the great Nokia cameras, for the time.

It's amazing the pixel binning concept Apple has just introduced as a flagship feature for the 14 Pro was pioneered by Nokia a full decade earlier!

Nokia 808 PureView review: Photo Finnish

The camera is the main reason everyone is interested in the Nokia 808 PureView. It was off to a flying start after emerging victorious from our blind...

www.gsmarena.com

 

[PhoenixDown]

The question is, what is MS' goal for the Surface.

My thoughts:

• MS was late to the party with MP3 players (e.g. iPod)
• MS was late to party again in the smart phone era.
• Surface is meant to be a token resistance to the iPad but more imporantly its to keep sales away from Google which is more of a direct competitor to MS in the mobile space.
• MS can drop a ton of money to further ramp up the Surface and what they are doing in the mobile space. It will be almost impossible for them to pull out and jump back in again at a later date.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I read it.

You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the larger picture.

Sales are down in a broad and deep market downturn.

Nevertheless, the division remains profitable and you fail to grasp that the division is of key strategic importance.

Exactly. No articles etc here about how Macbook are down 40% this past quarter. More than ANY other brand including MS. The entire industry is down at this point.

 

[maflynn]

Microsoft's Surface revenue plummets by 30%: Market overcrowded, buyers elusive, and PC sales in crisis

Turning to Microsoft Surface, which the company calls “devices,” revenue is down 30%, again related to “elevated channel inventory levels” and a weak PC market.


Last quarter was worse for Microsoft as Surface saw a steeper 39% drop in revenue, but compounded with today's 30% report, and Microsoft is losing quite a bit compared to previous quarters with no end in sight.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Microsoft's Surface revenue plummets by 30%: Market overcrowded, buyers elusive, and PC sales in crisis

They need a smaller surface and a larger surface "pro". A laptop go and a laptop "pro". They also need to treat the studio seriously. Right now that device is treated like an afterthought. Those 5 devices with some options will streamline the lineup.

 

[maflynn]

They need ...

I think more and more their hardware division is in abit of turmoil. I read a report that they're killing off their MS mouse and keyboards. There still will be a Surface branded mouse, but they had solid mice and keyboards, so I'm a bit sad to see those go the way of the dodo

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I think more and more their hardware division is in abit of turmoil. I read a report that they're killing off their MS mouse and keyboards. There still will be a Surface branded mouse, but they had solid mice and keyboards, so I'm a bit sad to see those go the way of the dodo

I expect nothing more from cloud man. Nadella if you were wondering. Ms has been a rudder less ship since he took the reigns. They have introduced all sorts of awesome stuff only to cancel due to lack of any type of backbone to anything other than cloud and business Facebook.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think more and more their hardware division is in abit of turmoil. I read a report that they're killing off their MS mouse and keyboards. There still will be a Surface branded mouse, but they had solid mice and keyboards, so I'm a bit sad to see those go the way of the dodo

Which ultimately seems to be of their own making... they have made some very questionable decisions for what is meant to be a premium 'halo product' line, and which is priced to match. Ergo extending down into entry level devices with the Go products is bizarre, and they're just bad computers as a result (pentium processors, eMMC storage, low pixel density displays, cheap plastic body parts). Replacing the unique Surface book with the banal Surface studio laptop was also a bizarre decision, and put it more directly in competition with 360 convertibles which other companies are already doing better. Leaving premium devices languishing with years-old chips and low storage and memory options is also unlikely to ingratiate Surface to customers, I just don't know exactly what they're thinking behind the scenes. As with Windows Phone, rather than putting the sustained effort in to make something a success, Microsoft seem to throw a massive tantrum and cut funding/resources off if it's not an automatic massive hit with minimal effort.