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Will the new MBA make MBP 13s obsolete?
- Thread starter randymarsh123
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the optibay option is big, i think, for video or intense audio work:
drive 1: SSD for OS, Applications, (samples), ...
drive 2: SSD/HDD for big video/audio files, (movie, music library), ...
e.g., for musicians, you can run your programs off one drive and record to the other; all in one small package!
if the 2011 13" simply had better resolution, i'd have been sold day one. i know others are happy with it, and i don't mean to rain on their parade, in fact, i envy them, but i just couldn't be satisfied with that screen.
anyways, optibay makes for a serious and very portable little workstation.
i've been waiting for the MBA update, otherwise i might have already settled for a 13 MBP. depending on what kind of CPU that MBA gets, i may or may not decide to go MBP after all.
drive 1: SSD for OS, Applications, (samples), ...
drive 2: SSD/HDD for big video/audio files, (movie, music library), ...
e.g., for musicians, you can run your programs off one drive and record to the other; all in one small package!
if the 2011 13" simply had better resolution, i'd have been sold day one. i know others are happy with it, and i don't mean to rain on their parade, in fact, i envy them, but i just couldn't be satisfied with that screen.
anyways, optibay makes for a serious and very portable little workstation.
i've been waiting for the MBA update, otherwise i might have already settled for a 13 MBP. depending on what kind of CPU that MBA gets, i may or may not decide to go MBP after all.
It's not ULV, it's LV. When the architecture and clock speed is the same, then the performance is as well. There is absolutely no difference between LV and SV chips, they come from the same production line.
Then you didn't buy it from Apple. $1199 gets you the stock 13" MBP with 4GB of RAM and 320GB HD, nothing else. It's useless to start arguing what you got from 3rd party because the MBA isn't the same price from 3rd party either.
I never said it does. If you read my first reply, I listed several things that make 13" MBP worthwhile. While 13" MBA will definitely take sales away from it, it's still a great machine and the best choice for many people.
Yea but as far as I know, the turbo boost only works when the temperatures aren't high, something like overclocking when it's safe. And I suppose the air will generate a lot more heat because of the cramped internals, which means it won't turbo boost that easily...
The new MBA's will make EVERYTHING obsolete. Even actual air that you breath, ironically.
Hide your kids and wife. MBA is upon us, mother****ers!
Hide your kids and wife. MBA is upon us, mother****ers!
Let's remember, the current MBP is almost 6 months old, and the MBA under discussion isn't out yet. In addition, the MBP has been spec-bumped for the past few years, while the MBA is all-new as of the latest refresh. The early 2012 MBP should widen the gap and help the "Pro" line catch up in terms of screen res, (relative) portability, etc.
Hackintosh built out of a hyperthreading P4
It works pretty well for the mac's it's serving. Just procured a Mini to replace it though. All my other network duties are handled by a linux server.This is what I was doing when I had the dual drives. This is also why I game up on the Pro. Having a firewire interface plugged into it jumped my idle temperature up to 70 degrees Celsius. At load it was just too hot. Sometimes as high as 95. This makes the fan spin on full constantly which is a problem in recording. For the record, this is with Arctic Silver MX-4.
My C2D 15" did this as well but not to the same degree.
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Hackintosh built out of a hyperthreading P4
What do you use your mini for? I know you have it as a server, but what is it doing for you? Been thinking of getting one, but the only use I have for it right now is a file server. It would be a pretty expensive one if it's just a file server.
I just procured the mini. It won't be here for about another week. On the P4 the mini is replacing, I leave iTunes running with sharing on. I never use my computer for music when I'm out so why keep music on it? I have an iPhone for that. It syncs my calendar and my wife's as well as our shared contacts. As far as fileshring, I wrote an applescript to auto mount certain shares.
There's also the obligatory time machine backups. When it's not doing anything, it's on BOINC.
I use the linux machine for boinc, firewall and as a battle.net server.
i've never tried this setup myself. i picked up the idea online and it sounded pretty interesting. personally, i don't think i need two drives, but i would be interested to know precisely what the failure was in your case:
what exactly caused the heat problem?
not sure, but i thought SSDs and HDDs caused very little heat. you had no heat problems with: firewire interface + no second drive in optibay? ... was the problem due to the optibay setup itself, the firewire interface itself, the combination somehow?
(was the fan noise a problem because it bled to a room mic, or did it cause noise problems some other way (too)?)
speaking of minis, i actually thought the mini server could be a slick recording computer for a similar reason: the two (7200) drives. do you think that would work better for some reason? (i dont plan on buying a desktop anytime soon, im just curious.)
(just noticed: i've gone 6502!)
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I had the 13" i5 MBP and ended up returning it and getting my hands on an 11" Ultimate MBA for a really good deal ($700 out of pocket). For my needs, there was little to no difference between the two machines. The most 'intense' thing I do is the occasional CS:S. Most of my usage is internet, youtube, Office, iTunes, etc.
At retail value, the 13" MBP with SSD and the 13" MBA with 4GB RAM are almost the same price. The 11" MBA Ultimate is around the same price.
Why did I choose the 11" MBA? I needed 4GB and at least 128GB of storage. I, like some others here, absolutely hate that the 13" MBP has 1280x800 resolution. The MBA is LIGHT!!!, and it makes a big difference carrying it around the house and taking it on trips and what not.
It simply annoyed me carrying my 13" MBP around the house/my room. It would get hot on the lap and was much heavier (in real-world use) than the MBA.
All in all, I ended up keeping the MBA Ultimate and have NOT looked back. The machine does everything I want it to do and it is difficult to quantify the effect that the portability and form factor on making the MBA the best laptop on the market, IMO.
If I need power in a computer, I would be building a desktop anyways. Though I understand that some people need desktop power in a laptop (which is why they make the 15" and 17" MBP, right?).
At retail value, the 13" MBP with SSD and the 13" MBA with 4GB RAM are almost the same price. The 11" MBA Ultimate is around the same price.
Why did I choose the 11" MBA? I needed 4GB and at least 128GB of storage. I, like some others here, absolutely hate that the 13" MBP has 1280x800 resolution. The MBA is LIGHT!!!, and it makes a big difference carrying it around the house and taking it on trips and what not.
It simply annoyed me carrying my 13" MBP around the house/my room. It would get hot on the lap and was much heavier (in real-world use) than the MBA.
All in all, I ended up keeping the MBA Ultimate and have NOT looked back. The machine does everything I want it to do and it is difficult to quantify the effect that the portability and form factor on making the MBA the best laptop on the market, IMO.
If I need power in a computer, I would be building a desktop anyways. Though I understand that some people need desktop power in a laptop (which is why they make the 15" and 17" MBP, right?).
The issue was the MacBook pro's FireWire chip. It gets bloody hot and drives the entire systems temp up. The CPU usage doesn't really change.
When the current MBP 13" becomes obsolete (which in my opinion it already is because of the display), it won't be because of the Air. It will be because technology evolves and because it sucks to have only 1280x800 pixels on a 13" display.
I'll take a look and see if the MBA is up to demanding applications like FCP X.
Particularly, if an SSD weighs in heavily on still and photo editing (fast boot times and a just general "snappy" behavior wouldn't really cut it).
If the processing power isn't there, the weight savings aren't of any importance (and the 13" MBP isn't exactly heavy).
Also: only 128 Gb of storage space means that you need to lug an external hard drive around. I wouldn't be able to put my iTunes library on that drive and still have space left for serious work. And a 256 Gb drive is out of the question. For that price I'd buy a 15" MBP which will beat the MBA hands down (and you can install an SSD and put a second hard drive in the optibay).
Particularly, if an SSD weighs in heavily on still and photo editing (fast boot times and a just general "snappy" behavior wouldn't really cut it).
If the processing power isn't there, the weight savings aren't of any importance (and the 13" MBP isn't exactly heavy).
Also: only 128 Gb of storage space means that you need to lug an external hard drive around. I wouldn't be able to put my iTunes library on that drive and still have space left for serious work. And a 256 Gb drive is out of the question. For that price I'd buy a 15" MBP which will beat the MBA hands down (and you can install an SSD and put a second hard drive in the optibay).
*sigh*
so much seems to hinge on the resolution for some people. you'd think apple had slapped an old-fashioned crt display onto it or something. in my opinion, it is gorgeous, and after much staring at both the mbp 15 and mba 13 screens, i came to the conclusion that any difference was negligible at best for my needs. perhaps i just lack discriminating taste.
sure. it ought to have a better resolution, just because everyone else in the market does. i agree. bad on apple. but, the resolution hardly makes the entire computer obsolete.
CRT display into the laptop - must remember that one. Didn't mean to sound like that. The laptop I had before my first MacBook was 1280x800 on 15", so the transition from Asus to Apple was a major improvement display-wise. Very sharp, nice colours and higher pixel density (same resolution, but within smaller physical constraints). However, since the Air has 1440x900 pixels on the 13", this should at least be provided as a BTO option on the MBP 13". By the way, the glass plate is also very annoying.
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perhaps i used a bit too much hyperbole
i agree that the mbp ought to at least have the option. it seems like a poorly planned feature set to me (given the mba and mbp 15 resolution) and i don't know what the strategy there is. what's up apple? fortunately for me (and i imagine many others), it is a non-issue. the 13" is the mac i see quite often in the wild after all.
as for the glass plate, this is one reason i chose the mbp over the mba. i hate the mba's bezel, and i cannot say enough about how great i think it is to have the single, smooth plate of glass as a screen. for ocd people like myself, cleaning is a true pleasure.
if future mbas have a better looking display (speaking here about getting rid of the bezel and not the resolution) then i would definitely be more interested in it. i doubt it will happen, at least because of weight issues, but i would like it
hmm, okay. i have to imagine that people have been using firewire to record to mac laptops for years. a quick google search did bring up one guy who had similar problems, except his problem was that the CPU was periodically spiking with a firewire Duet plugged in (some kind of software problem).
anyways, thanks for the info
They have been. You're right... but the fan's being spun up as a result on a 2011 results in about a 10 db increase in noise and that is huge in terms of recording. Like I said, my 15" did the same thing... but with 2 fans that spun up far less and were WAY quieter, it was a non issue.
i see. i think they changed the fan settings on the 2011; people seem to say they kick in quicker (at lower temps) and faster (hence louder).
i had heard of the fan/noise/heat issues, but this is a discouraging reminder. as i mentioned, i've been considering a 2011 13 MBP as one backup plan for a recording comp (which i would probably use mostly in clamshell).
hate to belabor this, and continue off topic, but just to clarify, you were getting similar temps on your 15? it was just the difference in fan noise that killed it? since you mentioned the thermal paste, i'm assuming you tried adjusting the fan settings. but i guess that didn't do the trick?
suck city.
i've really been trying to avoid buying a pricey and heavy 15".
No, because the MBP (even the 13" model) and the MBA target different types of users.
Another relevant point: with the move to SB processors, it's virtually guaranteed that we'd see the MBA adapt the same HD3000 GPU that the 13" MBP uses. The HD3000 is integrated onto the processor die and performance scales with processor clock speed. This means in turn that the MBA will probably have slower graphics performance than the 13" MBP, a characteristic which will be further exaggerated by the fact that the MBA has a higher screen resolution (more taxing on the GPU).
To keep it apples-to-apples (bad pun intended), let's assume that we equip a base 13" MBP with a 128 GB SSD and pit it against a 4 GB equipped 13" MBA. Same price (~$1400), but the MBP has a much faster processor, more ports, marginally better graphics performance, and more upgrade potential (RAM/HDD). So again, you're looking at a compromise between power and portability.
As for the 15" MBP? Again--power and portability. And also price. If my notebook were only my machine, I'd absolutely spring for the high end 15" model. But I like the power of a desktop, and so my notebook is a secondary device--it's my road warrior. It sees enough important use that I'm not willing to take the performance hit that comes with the MBA, but I'm also not going to spend several hundred dollars more on a 15" MBP that's going to sit in the closet whenever I'm at home. The 13" model is a perfect compromise for my needs and wants.
The MBA will almost certainly use ULV (ultra low voltage) Sandy Bridge processors, because the MBA has a smaller battery and is less able to evacuate hot air efficiently. In other words, it'll be using the same basic architecture as the processor in the 13" MBP, but it'll be clocked much lower. Ergo, significantly less raw performance. Probably not noticeable to most end users (particularly in light of the default flash storage), but very much an issue for developers like me. Running compiles on a ULV mobile processor would cost me a lot of time. As is, I try to use my desktop for the heavy lifting, but I often have to rely upon my secondary computer (13" MBP) to do it--and having the full power processor is well worth it.
Better in what way? The "integrated flash memory" in the MBA provides no performance advantage over the sort of "external" SSD you'd install in a MBP, because they both use the same system bus. Planting the chips directly on the logic board is just a physical change made to facilitate the narrow form factor (and, if you're a bit of a conspiracist, to increase the end user's dependence upon Apple for service/repairs).
Likely, but not confirmed. Even so, this technology should be considered a sort of vaporware until reasonably priced consumer-grade devices hit the market. Until then, the idea that you can supplement the MBA's limited internal storage with a Thunderbolt-equipped external drive is meaningless. Besides, external hard drives are heavy and bulky--it's actually more ponderous than having a drive inside the machine itself. If you end up carrying it with you anyhow, doesn't that defeat the purpose?
There's always a compromise between portability and power--simple physics.
Several others have already covered this and I support their points.
Another relevant point: with the move to SB processors, it's virtually guaranteed that we'd see the MBA adapt the same HD3000 GPU that the 13" MBP uses. The HD3000 is integrated onto the processor die and performance scales with processor clock speed. This means in turn that the MBA will probably have slower graphics performance than the 13" MBP, a characteristic which will be further exaggerated by the fact that the MBA has a higher screen resolution (more taxing on the GPU).
To keep it apples-to-apples (bad pun intended
), let's assume that we equip a base 13" MBP with a 128 GB SSD and pit it against a 4 GB equipped 13" MBA. Same price (~$1400), but the MBP has a much faster processor, more ports, marginally better graphics performance, and more upgrade potential (RAM/HDD). So again, you're looking at a compromise between power and portability.As for the 15" MBP? Again--power and portability. And also price.
If my notebook were only my machine, I'd absolutely spring for the high end 15" model. But I like the power of a desktop, and so my notebook is a secondary device--it's my road warrior. It sees enough important use that I'm not willing to take the performance hit that comes with the MBA, but I'm also not going to spend several hundred dollars more on a 15" MBP that's going to sit in the closet whenever I'm at home. The 13" model is a perfect compromise for my needs and wants.
Put it this way. It rendered my condenser mics useless... the MacBook Pro firewire chips are kinda crappy in terms of audio. Any firewire interface I have tried has caused kernel panics on ALL of the MacBook Pro's I've owned (I've owned 6) in relation to whether the machine was booted in clamshell or not. The MacBook Pro's firewire chipsets WORK for audio interfaces but it is far from what I would call ideal. Hey, I've still used them despite this as it doesn't seem to interfere with Logic running.
What I'm saying is not all firewire chipsets are created equal and Apple does not go with the best. Not the worst either though.
On a side note, the old PowerBook doesn't have this problem
No, because the MBP (even the 13" model) and the MBA target different types of users.
The MBA will almost certainly use ULV (ultra low voltage) Sandy Bridge processors, because the MBA has a smaller battery and is less able to evacuate hot air efficiently. In other words, it'll be using the same basic architecture as the processor in the 13" MBP, but it'll be clocked much lower. Ergo, significantly less raw performance. Probably not noticeable to most end users (particularly in light of the default flash storage), but very much an issue for developers like me. Running compiles on a ULV mobile processor would cost me a lot of time. As is, I try to use my desktop for the heavy lifting, but I often have to rely upon my secondary computer (13" MBP) to do it--and having the full power processor is well worth it.
Better in what way? The "integrated flash memory" in the MBA provides no performance advantage over the sort of "external" SSD you'd install in a MBP, because they both use the same system bus. Planting the chips directly on the logic board is just a physical change made to facilitate the narrow form factor (and, if you're a bit of a conspiracist, to increase the end user's dependence upon Apple for service/repairs).
Likely, but not confirmed. Even so, this technology should be considered a sort of vaporware until reasonably priced consumer-grade devices hit the market. Until then, the idea that you can supplement the MBA's limited internal storage with a Thunderbolt-equipped external drive is meaningless. Besides, external hard drives are heavy and bulky--it's actually more ponderous than having a drive inside the machine itself. If you end up carrying it with you anyhow, doesn't that defeat the purpose?
There's always a compromise between portability and power--simple physics.
Several others have already covered this and I support their points.
Another relevant point: with the move to SB processors, it's virtually guaranteed that we'd see the MBA adapt the same HD3000 GPU that the 13" MBP uses. The HD3000 is integrated onto the processor die and performance scales with processor clock speed. This means in turn that the MBA will probably have slower graphics performance than the 13" MBP, a characteristic which will be further exaggerated by the fact that the MBA has a higher screen resolution (more taxing on the GPU).
To keep it apples-to-apples (bad pun intended
As for the 15" MBP? Again--power and portability. And also price.
I'm in the market for a laptop that will serve as my main computer until I get a Mac Pro next year.
I have been advised to wait for the new MBA before I buy, but I have the same reservations to getting an MBA over an MBP: raw processing power, maximum RAM, ports, storage space.
I find the weight of the 13" MBP negligible, but maybe I'm just that strong
Also, after a side by side comparison at the Apple store displaying the same images, I found the MBP screen better than the MBA screen. Image quality isn't all about resolution, and I heard the new MBA will again NOT have an ips panel.
So, while I'm waiting for the actual MBA to come out to have the facts, I don't think it will be up to running FCP X as well as the 13" MBP.
PS: I'll be using the MBP with an external 24" NEC display, so the actual display of the laptop is less of a concern to me anyway.
I'm in the market for a laptop that will serve as my main computer until I get a Mac Pro next year.
I have been advised to wait for the new MBA before I buy, but I have the same reservations to getting an MBA over an MBP: raw processing power, maximum RAM, ports, storage space.
I find the weight of the 13" MBP negligible, but maybe I'm just that strong
Also, after a side by side comparison at the Apple store displaying the same images, I found the MBP screen better than the MBA screen. Image quality isn't all about resolution, and I heard the new MBA will again NOT have an ips panel.
So, while I'm waiting for the actual MBA to come out to have the facts, I don't think it will be up to running FCP X as well as the 13" MBP.
PS: I'll be using the MBP with an external 24" NEC display, so the actual display of the laptop is less of a concern to me anyway.
i agree. the mbp screen definitely appealed to me more than the mba's. and, i find the weight difference negligible as well, especially considering all of the upgrades available for the mbp.
but, in your case i'd recommend the mba. if you send something out to a larger monitor, you'll probably want the better resolution. it looks fine on a 13" screen, but may not do so well on a 24".