iMac Pro Will there ever be a 27 inch iMac with the Apple silicon chip and more?

[Yebubbleman]

I'd add to this to say that the only reason the 24" iMac even still fits in the lineup is because Apple doesn't sell a standalone 24" display.

Not sure that I agree. Apple insists that the iMac is in their DNA. It's also the case that if you're recommending a low-end Mac desktop, it's often easier for a consumer that doesn't want to then go shopping for a display, keyboard, speakers, mouse, and webcam to just buy an iMac that comes with all of those things. The 24-inch iMac is a return to the 1998-2001 basic model of "hey, here's a complete computer for the every person; just plug it into power and turn it on and away you go!". This was something that customers of the lower-end iMacs needed and higher-end-use-case customers of the 27-inch iMac never did.

as a fellow 2017 5k iMac owner, so when is it the time to make the transition? My system works well enough, but wish I didn't hear those fans when pushed and not excited that Sonoma is not supported (even though there's not much new to it). I have been eyeing a Studio Display and Mac mini, but it feels disappointing to essentially end up with an identical screen. How much is it really a performance boost for non-content creators?

The computing prowess has nothing to do with the size or specs of the display. I'm not too sure where the disappointment factor comes from.

The fact of the matter is that the 5K display in your iMac is trapped in that iMac and can never be used with any other machine without a serious hack job taking place.

A Studio Display will work with any compatible Mac until Apple either stops supporting it or until it dies. You will likely replace whatever Mac mini/Studio/Pro that you buy AT LEAST once over in the time that you own that display.

As for the speed difference between a 2017 27-inch iMac and even a standard M1 Mac mini is night and day. And that's especially true if you have either a hard drive or a Fusion Drive in said iMac.

 

[whatevs]

As for the speed difference between a 2017 27-inch iMac and even a standard M1 Mac mini is night and day. And that's especially true if you have either a hard drive or a Fusion Drive in said iMac.

I fortunately upgraded to the 512 GB SSD when purchasing and added my own RAM to reach 24 GB. I have to stop by an Apple Store and try an Apple Silicon for myself. A bit scared I’ll walk out an entire new system. 😃

 

[AL2TEACH]

all those laptops have to be going somewhere…

Maybe to individuals for their use home/work?

 

[Fishrrman]

MacPro wrote:
"Now, Apple releases a MacPro that does precisely what the pro market didn’t ask for. They released a machine, nearly twice the cost of a Studio that still lacks what pros want: control over the hardware. That’s it."

I doubt that Apple is ever going to surrender "control over the hardware" to pros (or anyone else) again. That's it.

 

[Longplays]

as a fellow 2017 5k iMac owner, so when is it the time to make the transition? My system works well enough, but wish I didn't hear those fans when pushed and not excited that Sonoma is not supported (even though there's not much new to it). I have been eyeing a Studio Display and Mac mini, but it feels disappointing to essentially end up with an identical screen. How much is it really a performance boost for non-content creators?

At 6yo your iMac's fan must be pushing against accumulated dust.

If you are so inclined I'd take the effort to tear down your iMac for a good clean of the fan and other components.

While you are in there I'd also take the opportunity to replace the Fusion Drive's HDD with a 2TB SATA SSD.

You can also increase RAM to 4x16GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SODIMM for as much as 64GB

But be aware that the final macOS Security Update for your iMac may be received as early as 2025. This is 2 years away.

I would have done the cleaning and upgrade 4 years into the 8 year support time to make it worthwhile.

 

[theluggage]

We do a lot of graphic design as artists and spent nearly $4000 on our intel iMac.

...$4000 today will get you a M2 Max Studio with 12 core CPU, 38 core GPU and 1TB SSD and a Studio Display, which should be considerably more powerful than the old top-end iMac. Personally, I'd get a different display and save money - 5k is best but comes at a huge premium - a 27-30" 4k should be perfectly good for most tasks.

Its only the old low-end 5k iMacs - which were always something of a bargain - that have left a bit of a hole.

It's more inexplicable to me that anyone needing the power of a middle to high end spec 27-inch iMac would need an all-in-one form factor than it is to me that Apple finally realized that there were people craving that kind of flexibility with their computers and their displays.

Yup. I've only got a 2017 iMac because, at the time, Apple weren't offering a credible headless alternative. Now switched to a Studio and a dual, matching 4k display setup which suits my needs better than a singe 5k at twice the price. Some people getting M2 Max and Ultra chips are going to be in the market for a Pro XDR - or other specific displays - and really won't want a 27" 5k display - however nice it is - welded onto their new Mac.

One point people seem to be missing about the mid/high-range iMacs is that - back in the Intel days - they offered desktop-class CPUs and higher-end discrete GPUs that meant they significantly out-performed the top end MacBook Pro & offered larger RAM options. With Apple Silicon, until you get up to the M2 Ultra, the desktops and laptops are all offering the same CPU, GPU and RAM configurations - so there's no performance incentive over a laptop, and one reason to buy an iMac over a MBP has disappeared. The ASi Mini/Mini Pro is also far more powerful than the 2014 "MBA without a screen" or the 2018 "great processor, feeble GPU" Minis. Yes, there's the M2 Ultra - but that was never going to turn up in anything short of an "iMac Pro" costing $7000+ (and that's firmly in the "who is going to want a one-size-fits-all display at that level" category).

In a perfect world Apple would give us the choice between a Mac Studio/Mini and an iMac - but they're going to be competing for sales in a market niche which has already being eaten away by more powerful laptops and greatly improved "small" 24" iMacs and Minis. Sure, Apple still gets the sale - but the more different models they have to build, the worse the economies of scale. With the Studio Display (which I don't like much. but I'm sure it provides an excellent quality display) Apple have a single product that they can sell to Mac Mini, Mac Studio, Mac Pro and MacBook Pro owners.

 

[0339327]

The FCP transition was interesting. My interpretation (in hindsight) was that Apple made a conscious choice to support the YouTube creator industry over Hollywood Steven Spielberg wannabes, and it showed in how many tech YouTubers proselytised about how they loved the Mac and using FCP over Premiere for their workflows, which I saw as a form of free marketing to their user base.

So I saw this as a classic example of Apple skating to where the puck was going to be, at the expense of its current users.

I think the reason is, as someone has pointed out, that Apple simply has no interest in serving those markets you mentioned. Apple likely knows how well they will do, and even at their best, it will still be too small a market to be worth their while.

What they seem to be trying to do is migrate these users to other hardware, but it won't be a clean 1:1 transition.

For example, a 27" iMac user may either be served by the M1 iMac, or a M2 Pro Mac Mini or Mac Studio paired with a Studio Display. As a current 2017 5k iMac owner, this is my present dilemma, but maybe it's also the push I need finally be free of being stuck with a gorgeous 5k display that I have no idea what to do with when the desktop portion of the iMac is no longer supported.

Likewise, it's clear Apple is never going to release an affordable modular Mac for the exact reasons that people want 1 - they would lose out on hardware sales because people can just keep upgrading the internals with third party hardware.

So to answer your question, I don't think Apple is blind to the needs of their user base, but their business model means that they won't always be able (or willing) to give users exactly what they say they want. Apple will try, but it will always be on their terms.

Or, in other words: Apple isn’t interested in making great products for all users and is selling out for profits sake.

This is exactly opposite what Steve implemented to bring the company out of irrelevance.

 

[Abazigal]

Or, in other words: Apple isn’t interested in making great products for all users and is selling out for profits sake.

This is exactly opposite what Steve implemented to bring the company out of irrelevance.

My observation is that Steve Jobs was never about making great products "for all users" either, because the simple truth is that you can't hope to meet everyone's needs evenly. What they did was identify a target market whom they could charge a premium to. At the time, it happened to be creative professionals who were underserved by the PC market. This in turn allowed them to get away with not needing to cater to gamers, which is a notoriously low-profit segment of the market.

It was the case then, and it's the case now. Whether Apple has changed or not is a matter of perspective, hinging on whether your computing needs are still being met by Apple or not. My personal take is that Apple hasn't changed. They still want to make the best products possible, just that what the "best product" entails ultimately depends on their interpretation, not yours. This interpretation will evolve in keeping with the times, and if your own computing needs have not changed in lockstep with Apple's, then that's where the conflict and tension arises.

That is what makes Apple so polarizing. They aim for product experience often times at the sacrifice of user choice. And if their idea of what you want in a product matches yours, then it is full of secret magic and delight. And if not, it can be frustration, like jogging through quicksand.

But Apple will always be Apple, and what's what makes them (as a company) so amazing in my book (and so very frustrating to so many other people).

 

[Longplays]

It may come to a shock to many but shipments of desktop dGPU have been at a downward slope since 2005. This to me indicates that "perfect" 4090-like performance is not selling as well as GPU cores in SoC.

Use case of decades past are not approaching niche.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low

 

[throAU]

I doubt the 27" iMac is coming back.

a quality 27" monitor is a significant thing to throw away when the internals age out.

 

[pshufd]

It may come to a shock to many but shipments of desktop dGPU have been at a downward slope since 2005. This to me indicates that "perfect" 4090-like performance is not selling as well as GPU cores in SoC.

Use case of decades past are not approaching niche.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low

Part of the problem is pricing. There are a couple of PC YouTube channels that regularly mock AMD and nVidia over pricing and product launches.

 

[pshufd]

My solution was just to buy a 2015 iMac 27 for $200 and it's a great system. It runs cool and quiet and is great for office stuff. I love the screen and speakers. It sits next to my M1 Studio with 3 27 inch 4k monitors which runs my production stuff. I will likely upgrade to a 2019 or 2020 i7 in the future as the prices of Intel models continues to drop quickly.

 

[Longplays]

Part of the problem is pricing. There are a couple of PC YouTube channels that regularly mock AMD and nVidia over pricing and product launches.

Or people are happy with "good enough" resulting in lower economies of scale thus increase in pricing.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey: May 2023

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Another thing many here are unaware of is that the big 3 are focusing on A.I. chips as the next growing market for decades to come

- https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/25/ai-pushing-nvidia-toward-1-trillion-wont-help-intel-and-amd.html
- https://www.reuters.com/technology/...uture-ai-chips-it-shifts-strategy-2023-05-22/

All 3 video consoles uses a APU or SoC. Anyone using a dGPU?

Desktop dGPUs are for the crypto & desktop use. Desktops have declined to 20% of the PC market and I see it declining further with more and more users preferring APUs & SoC in a more compact form factor like laptops.

There is demand for desktops & dGPUs but they are approaching a niche.

 

[0339327]

So I saw this as a classic example of Apple skating to where the puck was going to be, at the expense of its current users.

1. Apple was a dominant player in a competitive market and just gave it up. They threw a large wrench into a spinning fly wheel. It wasn’t just studios using FCP, lots and lots of small guys, like me, we’re using it for years.

2. Because of this, they lost the battle in the YouTube space as well, where Premier rules.

3. Due to Apple’s neglect of the pro world, when people are frustrated with Premier, they are moving to Davinci Resolve and not even considering FCP.

 

[0339327]

My observation is that Steve Jobs was never about making great products "for all users" either, because the simple truth is that you can't hope to meet everyone's needs evenly. What they did was identify a target market whom they could charge a premium to. At the time, it happened to be creative professionals who were underserved by the PC market. This in turn allowed them to get away with not needing to cater to gamers, which is a notoriously low-profit segment of the market.

It was the case then, and it's the case now. Whether Apple has changed or not is a matter of perspective, hinging on whether your computing needs are still being met by Apple or not. My personal take is that Apple hasn't changed. They still want to make the best products possible, just that what the "best product" entails ultimately depends on their interpretation, not yours. This interpretation will evolve in keeping with the times, and if your own computing needs have not changed in lockstep with Apple's, then that's where the conflict and tension arises.

That is what makes Apple so polarizing. They aim for product experience often times at the sacrifice of user choice. And if their idea of what you want in a product matches yours, then it is full of secret magic and delight. And if not, it can be frustration, like jogging through quicksand.

But Apple will always be Apple, and what's what makes them (as a company) so amazing in my book (and so very frustrating to so many other people).

There is a difference in Steve’s Apple v. Tim’s Apple.

Tim has positioned Apple to follow the quick profits, while Steve positioned Apple to make great products.

I’m not saying that Apple doesn’t make great products now, or that they don’t invest the future.However, Steve constantly spoke about changing the world with great products. He made Apple think different and created a slew of products that did change the world.

I can’t think of a single Tim product that did anything remarkable. What has Apple developed (not upgraded) that has changed how we do things? The last product was the iPad. The Vision Pro may do this, but it’s years from being ready for a typical consumer.

Tim sold out Apple and the stock price screamed. Good for you! But he has also made Apple forget what made it great in the first place: building products around a core that serve all there customer needs.

 

[AL2TEACH]

If your iMac is due to be changed for another device like an upgrade and you can't sell it, Apple will and this is from the website.

Recycling​

• Does Apple offer recycling?​

  Yes. Apple Trade In lets you recycle any Apple device (including devices from Apple-owned brands) at an Apple Store location and on apple.com for free. That includes your batteries and electronic products as well as packaging recycling for our commercial, education, and institutional customers. When we receive your device, it will be thoroughly inspected and assessed for reuse or recycling. Whether your device is recycled or reused, all activities related to the processing of your device will be managed in an environmentally responsible way.

 

[pshufd]

If your iMac is due to be changed for another device like an upgrade and you can't sell it, Apple will and this is from the website.

Recycling​

• Does Apple offer recycling?​

  Yes. Apple Trade In lets you recycle any Apple device (including devices from Apple-owned brands) at an Apple Store location and on apple.com for free. That includes your batteries and electronic products as well as packaging recycling for our commercial, education, and institutional customers. When we receive your device, it will be thoroughly inspected and assessed for reuse or recycling. Whether your device is recycled or reused, all activities related to the processing of your device will be managed in an environmentally responsible way.

There is still demand for even 2009 iMacs in my area on Craigslist. They may go for $25 but they can still go to a good home. I would probably prefer to just give one away rather than sell it as they are still usable. One other thing is that it saves a trip to the Apple Store carrying a rather large and heavy device.

 

[Longplays]

There is still demand for even 2009 iMacs in my area on Craigslist. They may go for $25 but they can still go to a good home. I would probably prefer to just give one away rather than sell it as they are still usable. One other thing is that it saves a trip to the Apple Store carrying a rather large and heavy device.

Imagine if selling to a "home" results in them selling it to recycler for >$25.

The metals in any electronics has more value than the electronics itself.

 

[AL2TEACH]

I would probably prefer to just give one away rather than sell it as they are still usable.

Likewise but some posters seem to think you might as well chuck it.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I can’t think of a single Tim product that did anything remarkable.

Apple Watch has completely changed the smartwatch industry, much in the same way AirPods has changed the way we listen to audio.

Vision Pro doesn't look too shabby, either.

 

[pshufd]

Imagine if selling to a "home" results in them selling it to recycler for >$25.

The metals in any electronics has more value than the electronics itself.

I depend on that on the buy side.

 

[pshufd]

Likewise but some posters seem to think you might as well chuck it.

It's less work to have someone come to your house to pick it up than it is to bring it to the dump.

 

[Abazigal]

I can’t think of a single Tim product that did anything remarkable. What has Apple developed (not upgraded) that has changed how we do things? The last product was the iPad. The Vision Pro may do this, but it’s years from being ready for a typical consumer.

Why does Tim Cook need to have created a revolutionary new product category, when he inherited quite a number of platforms from Steve Jobs (iOS, iPadOS, macOS, tvOS) and would already have his hands full simply building on all of them?

I feel Tim Cook's legacy is in establishing a formidable ecosystem around the iPhone, which in turn helped cement its dominance in the face of numerous android smartphone competitors. Notice how it is no longer enough to come up with a smartphone that beats the iPhone in one area or another; you have to match the entire ecosystem, which is all but impossible for any new entrant.

And it is this platform that is setting the foundation for the Vision Pro.

Plus, if you are asking about what Apple has done which has changed the way we do things, this is just how I have benefited from their products.

iPad - started teaching with the iPad 3 in 2012. Apple TV added peer-to-peer airplay in 2015. iPad Pro would add Apple Pencil, Smart Keyboard, PIP, split-screen, usb-c support, and I am still happily using the iPad in the classroom still.

Also purchased the apple watch and AirPods, and are using them happily today still.

Apple Silicon - quite satisfied with my M1 MBA. We used to have to choose between battery life and performance in a laptop, not anymore.

So if you ask me, it's really how these things all come together to make Apple products work great together.

 

[Longplays]

I can’t think of a single Tim product that did anything remarkable. What has Apple developed (not upgraded) that has changed how we do things? The last product was the iPad. The Vision Pro may do this, but it’s years from being ready for a typical consumer.

Tim sold out Apple and the stock price screamed. Good for you! But he has also made Apple forget what made it great in the first place: building products around a core that serve all there customer needs.

90% of Apple's value was created under Tim Cook.

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666515283467444231

For the users who are disappearing... what's the point of serving the dwindling few thousand users left?

They're catering to new users in a growing market with drastically different use case.

These are the Apple products released after Steve died in 2011.

 

[0339327]

90% of Apple's value was created under Tim Cook.

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666515283467444231

View attachment 2219792

For the users who are disappearing... what's the point of serving the dwindling few thousand users left?

They're catering to new users in a growing market with drastically different use case.

These are the Apple products released after Steve died in 2011.

Um

That’s exactly what I said. I’m not anti Tim per se. Rather, Tim, being an operations genius and money manager focused Apple for profits first and products secondary.

Steve was the other way. First, build products that can change the world and then, second, the profits will come.

You have to be able to do both well. There is no reason why Apple can’t have a serious pro line AND great consumer products. Steve did just that to bring the company back. Focus on both. Then, when your college kid becomes an executive, he can use Apple products in the company AND at home.

Works the other way too. If you relegate the pro products into irrelevance, all those businesses will move away from Apple for everything, not just the few pro machines.

As I’ve said numerous times here, I manage over 15 machines. Loose the editing machine to a PC with Resolve, loose the other MBA, iMacs and MacMinis to Windows too.

An ecosystem centered around the iPhone sells wearables and services. An ecosystem centered around the Mac sells EVERYTHING.