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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
- Thread starter krazzix
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I would love it, man. However, we all know that Apple is soon to migrate to their own chips. It would be weird to reshuffle the supply chain for just a couple of years or three, tops. Intel delivers custom chips to Apple, not a usual practice. It shows they have a very strong bond.
They might make the new iMac look like the Apple XDR display, I like the design of that monitor
Though I hope they don't sell the stand seperately
Though I hope they don't sell the stand seperately
I am starting to think they might adopt a backplate similar to the XDR Display, to cool the internals and perhaps support up to the rumored i9 12c TDP 125W.
I think we have to throw out the theory the XDR display will spawn a new iMac. It might encourage an iMac redesign but think about the display is $5000. Maybe if they dumb it way down but the 5K Retina iMac screen is already pretty good here. I would like to see a bigger display than 27" in a future iMac though. Just throwing my thoughts out there. Maybe it will be an iMac Pro XDR.
Update:
iMP The Cascade Lake X (for the iMP) are expected in October (November, tops) and will be using the same socket. I still hope that the new WiFi6 antennas and BT 5.0 would drive a redesign even if the chipset stays the same, though. Who knows. PCI-e 3.0, of course. 2933 MHz RAM might be supported, it is still not clear.
Besides, there isn't yet any GPU that could fit the model. AMD should come out in October/November with more (and less) powerful RDNA cards. Nevertheless, Apple has lately shown more than once that they can implement AMD GPUs well in advance with respect of the market, sometimes announcing a card even before AMD did (Vega 56).
iMac The Comet Lake S prototypes are already going around. They will bring a new socket (LGA1200) for better power management and motherboards are very close to being introduced to the market by the main vendors, with Intel 400 series chipset. Therefore, it would be sensible to believe that Apple has all the tools now to bring a 2020 iMac model to completion.
GPU-wise, I would expect for sure the 5700 and 5700XT be in the BTO version (over PCI-e 3.0 since Comet Lake, as well, doesn't support 4.0 speeds), but the base one is still missing a 5600 (I'd say), that should arrive soon. It's actually more likely than the 5800/5900 to appear in the next 30/60 days.
Let's hope for SMALLER BEZELS, TrueTone, a better HDR, higher nits, better internal CPU/GPU cooling (without sacrificing RAM access!), and perhaps even a T3 chip for FaceID. C'mon, Apple. We all log in our computer sitting or standing in front of it!
Wifi6 and BT5 of course, are a given. RAM speed may not increase (2666 MHz), given all the fake and true rumours going around Comet Lake S chips, even if it makes no much sense. 6-8-10 core configurations. (i5, i7, i9) Faster SSDs (or it wouldn't be Apple). Same I/O, I wouldn't expect to sport more than 2 TB3 ports.
Does anyone know whether USB4 needs updated hardware or if it would just require a driver update?
iMP The Cascade Lake X (for the iMP) are expected in October (November, tops) and will be using the same socket. I still hope that the new WiFi6 antennas and BT 5.0 would drive a redesign even if the chipset stays the same, though. Who knows. PCI-e 3.0, of course. 2933 MHz RAM might be supported, it is still not clear.
Besides, there isn't yet any GPU that could fit the model. AMD should come out in October/November with more (and less) powerful RDNA cards. Nevertheless, Apple has lately shown more than once that they can implement AMD GPUs well in advance with respect of the market, sometimes announcing a card even before AMD did (Vega 56).
iMac The Comet Lake S prototypes are already going around. They will bring a new socket (LGA1200) for better power management and motherboards are very close to being introduced to the market by the main vendors, with Intel 400 series chipset. Therefore, it would be sensible to believe that Apple has all the tools now to bring a 2020 iMac model to completion.
GPU-wise, I would expect for sure the 5700 and 5700XT be in the BTO version (over PCI-e 3.0 since Comet Lake, as well, doesn't support 4.0 speeds), but the base one is still missing a 5600 (I'd say), that should arrive soon. It's actually more likely than the 5800/5900 to appear in the next 30/60 days.
Let's hope for SMALLER BEZELS, TrueTone, a better HDR, higher nits, better internal CPU/GPU cooling (without sacrificing RAM access!), and perhaps even a T3 chip for FaceID. C'mon, Apple. We all log in our computer sitting or standing in front of it!
Wifi6 and BT5 of course, are a given. RAM speed may not increase (2666 MHz), given all the fake and true rumours going around Comet Lake S chips, even if it makes no much sense. 6-8-10 core configurations. (i5, i7, i9) Faster SSDs (or it wouldn't be Apple). Same I/O, I wouldn't expect to sport more than 2 TB3 ports.
Does anyone know whether USB4 needs updated hardware or if it would just require a driver update?
The real question is: When will be the next iMac Pro release? Maybe there will be no new iMac Pro at all? For me, the iMac Pro was a quick solution because of the lack of the Mac Pro upgrades.
Comet Lake S is the successor of the i9 9900KF iMac and is expected for early 2020.
The current iMac i9 outperforms the iMP in many CPU tasks, especially in single core performance and is equal in multi core. The only bonus is the better graphics.
Apple cant launch a new iMP this year, because it would kill their nMP release. Maybe there is no need for a second Pro device anymore.
Apple cant launch a new iMac before a new iMac Pro is released
Can you imagine a new iMac with a 10 core Comet Lake & Radeon 5700 XT? It would be a blast!!!
Comet Lake S is the successor of the i9 9900KF iMac and is expected for early 2020.
The current iMac i9 outperforms the iMP in many CPU tasks, especially in single core performance and is equal in multi core. The only bonus is the better graphics.
Apple cant launch a new iMP this year, because it would kill their nMP release. Maybe there is no need for a second Pro device anymore.
Apple cant launch a new iMac before a new iMac Pro is released
Can you imagine a new iMac with a 10 core Comet Lake & Radeon 5700 XT? It would be a blast!!!
The hold-up is Intel has not released a new version of the W2000-Series Xeons that the iMac Pro uses. As askunk noted, the "Enthusiast" version of Cascade Lake-X is coming soon and those will become the basis for the W-2000 refresh (the current iMP Xeons are based on the "Enthusiast" version of Skylake-X). So probably 1H 2020 for the CPUs so perhaps a WWDC 2020 refresh announcement (assuming Intel his their dates).
It has happened before that a "low specs" model was faster than a "high-end" one. (remember the tMP and the iMP?) The bonuses are: stronger CPU, EEC RAM, faster GPUs, T2 chip, better cooling.
Apple can't launch an iMP so far because it is lacking GPUs (unless they have new secret custom chips from AMD).
The iMP closes the gap between the new MP and the iMac. Otherwise, the MP wouldn't be 6000$ worth, it would be the MP like the old cheesegrater: accessible to single Pros.
Apple can't launch a new iMac because it is lacking the CPUs. Did you read my previous post?
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Comet Lake S is going to replace the current range, not only the 9900 KF.
The current iMac has a ~300 W thermal envelope (the iMac Pro has ~500 W, IIRC). There's a question of what Apple is going to do with a redesign, improve cooling to increase the thermal envelope, improve cooling to allow for quieter operation, or just make the iMac thinner.
Since Apple designed the current enclosure/cooling solution Intel chips has only gotten hotter and taken up more of the allotted power. Comet Lake S looks to be continuing this course.
With the exception of the 2014 original Retina iMac, it seems like the GPU has been allowed a TDP of around ~150 W.
I think it's unlikely that Apple will offer the $400 225 W TDP Radeon 5700XT in the consumer iMac, even as a BTO. This card occupies the Vega 56 slot.
I think we might see the normal ($350) Radeon 5700 offered as a BTO option or perhaps as a standard option in a slightly more expensive high end model. Usually we see a ~$200 GPU offered as standard in the highest-end SKU.
I saw some rumours of Navi 12 and 14 launching October 15. Apple's Back to School ends October 17. Something could happen but we've heard very little lately.
If Apple was willing to launch the Early 2019 iMacs with GPUs that were next to no improvement over the 2017 iMacs, I think they might not necessarily wait for the marginal improvements of Comet Lake S.
iMac 2020 wishlist:
- 32 inch screen
- 6k resolution
- FaceID unlock/authentication
- Space gray option
As much as I understand the case of the TDP, it would be quite strange to market a computer that has the same GPU performance as the previous generation. I would expect the Vega 48 to be replaced by the XT, which is - I agree - comparable to a Vega 56, but cheaper (I guess?).
I am pretty sure the next iMac will not be a simple CPU bump. Therefore, higher TDP may be achieved if they implement some iMP and XDR display know-how. But again, it's just hope of a future customer.
As much as I understand the case of the TDP, it would be quite strange to market a computer that has the same GPU performance as the previous generation. I would expect the Vega 48 to be replaced by the XT, which is - I agree - comparable to a Vega 56, but cheaper (I guess?).
I am pretty sure the next iMac will not be a simple CPU bump. Therefore, higher TDP may be achieved if they implement some iMP and XDR display know-how. But again, it's just hope of a future customer.
I think you might have misunderstood me somewhat. The 5700XT occupies a slot similar to the Vega 56 marketing-wise.
Performance-wise even the normal 5700 outperforms the Vega 56 by a bit (about 15-20 % I'd say), and it is certainly significantly faster than the Vega 48.
That is, for normal add-in cards. Apple seem to usually tweak them a bit for better thermals so a bit of salt is needed for comparisons between PC GPUs
But with a new design anything could happen. I expect a larger/better display, FaceID, increased cooling, and other nice things we'd like to see to make the machines a bit more expensive already so we'll have to see if they want to spend more money on the GPUs than they usually do in addition and raise the price even more.
Yes a new design that addresses the cooling system is the main factor here since the redesign should last for the next 4-5-6 generations of imacs,i hope since they shown they’ve learn from the 2013 mac pro fiasco
Thank you for your data. I didn't know the 5700 was a good hit already. You may be right.
The point you make on the cost it's been the only doubt I have towards most of these changes.
Apple has been progressively increasing the base price of Macs. (the mini, the Pro, MBPs...) Apart from better screens, I take one of the most impactful has been the passage to pure SSD macs.
The iMac *HAS* to leave the HDD, which will of course increase the price for the drive itself, but also for the addition of a Tx chip. I guess they will go for a T2, unless they introduce FaceID, which may require a new chip. The T2 chip is driving some people mad with kernel crashes, therefore I am starting to think that Apple won't jump so fast into a new one.
Once you go for the T2 (or T3), you need to implement some biometrics, otherwise what's the point of using it just for the SSD and the webcam. The main point of the T2 has been security, through FileVault and TouchID. The iMac could be the best candidate to introduce FaceID. Easier than touchID which requires a new wireless keyboard, and less impactful on retail price, given the higher cost of notebooks.
Alas, the iMac will cost a bit more than now...
At least, without an HDD there will be less heat to manage on the drive side. I just really hope they won't move the RAM and still let us upgrade it.
I knew my 2013 iMac didn't have Thunderbolt 3 ports, but there are also other differences. It won't run Sidecar in Catalina, for instance. I'd like to delay my purchase of a Christmas replacement for 6 months if it means I can avoid obsolescence for a year or more on the other end. Delayed gratification may pay off if there are significant differences between this year's model and next year's model.
“Delayed gratification” is just that: delayed gratification. Only you can decide how well today’s offerings meet your needs and wants against what might come at some unknown point in the future. At least with technology this is an ongoing dilemma. At some point you get on the train, or you don’t.
Some of you guys are getting a little wild with the 5700 and 5700 XT predictions. I don't think we'll see either of those in either of the iMacs. They are gaming focused consumer cards and aren't as well suited to compute / workstation tasks as Vega, so I don't think Apple will put them in the iMac Pro. And the 5700 XT is too power hungry and hot to run in the standard iMac 5K. Apple could maybe make the regular 5700 work, but Apple never puts highish end GPUs in their consumer level products, so the 5500 is more likely in my opinion. The 5500 should be very close to the performance of the Vega 48, but at a much lower price. So Apple might just replace the Vega 48 option in the iMac 5K with the 5500 and cut the upgrade cost from $450 down to $200 or so. And depending on AMD's launch schedule, I could also see Apple replacing the 580X with something like a 5300 or whatever the low end budget Navi GPU will be called.
edit: Originally, this post said the 5500 would be faster than the Vega 48. This was a mistake. AMD said the 5500 would outperform the GTX 1650, and I was thinking the Vega 48 was similar in performance to the GTX 1650, but when I reread my post, I remembered that the Vega 48 is in fact comparable to the GTX 1660, not the 1650. But, according to AMD's benchmarks, the 5500 is about 44% faster than the GTX 1650 on average, which puts it only about 5% slower than the GTX 1660 and Vega 48. I updated the post to reflect this.
edit: Originally, this post said the 5500 would be faster than the Vega 48. This was a mistake. AMD said the 5500 would outperform the GTX 1650, and I was thinking the Vega 48 was similar in performance to the GTX 1650, but when I reread my post, I remembered that the Vega 48 is in fact comparable to the GTX 1660, not the 1650. But, according to AMD's benchmarks, the 5500 is about 44% faster than the GTX 1650 on average, which puts it only about 5% slower than the GTX 1660 and Vega 48. I updated the post to reflect this.
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As much as I understand the case of the TDP, it would be quite strange to market a computer that has the same GPU performance as the previous generation. I would expect the Vega 48 to be replaced by the XT, which is - I agree - comparable to a Vega 56, but cheaper (I guess?).
I am pretty sure the next iMac will not be a simple CPU bump. Therefore, higher TDP may be achieved if they implement some iMP and XDR display know-how. But again, it's just hope of a future customer.
The 5700 is much faster than the Vega 48. Heck, it's faster than the Vega 64. Based on AMD's numbers, even the 5500 should only be about 5% slower than the Vega 48. Check out this GPU chart to see the relative performance of various GPUs. The Vega 48 is missing from that chart since it's a custom chip for the iMac, but based on my benchmarks, it falls right around or slightly above the standard GTX 1660 (not the 1660 Ti).
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The problem with your thinking is, your mindset is still in 2017. Originally AMD considered naming the 5700 & 5700 XT; Radeon Pro 680/690. That is because they have the same number of cores as RP580/590. The huge performance increase comes from the switch to a 7nm process. It doesn't matter that they are faster than the old Vega-cards. AMD's Navi lineup will be overall significantly faster. The Navi GPUs that will replace Vega in their offering will feature much higher core counts. Those will be arriving next year.
Sounds like you agree with me that Apple isn’t going to put the 5700 or 5700 XT in the iMac Pro then.
But I guess you think the 5700 will go in the iMac 5K? That would be nice, but I have my doubts.
edit: On second inspection of the numbers, maybe you’re right. Apple could definitely downclock the RX 5700 like they did with the RX 580 and put it in the iMac, and TDP and core wise, the RX 5700 does seem like a replacement for the RX 580, even though it’s a much more expensive card than the RX 580 was when it launched. But when will the Vega replacements be available, because it would be pretty awkward for Apple to put a 5700 in the iMac 5K and have it outperform every variant of the iMac Pro.
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Mac Mini, Mac Pro and iMac on schedule to have consecutive year redesigns. 2018, 2019 and 2020.
So far it has all happened.
My iMac is from Mid-2010, but I just couldn’t wait and ordered a 2019 27” iMac to hold me over until the redesign comes. Which would likely be WWDC 2020. (IMO)
The design of the current iMac is nice, but it’s deff time for a remodel as many of you have said. Cooling, bezels, biometrics, Magic accessories, display etc.
It would make sense to update the iMac Pro next year too.
So far it has all happened.
My iMac is from Mid-2010, but I just couldn’t wait and ordered a 2019 27” iMac to hold me over until the redesign comes. Which would likely be WWDC 2020. (IMO)
The design of the current iMac is nice, but it’s deff time for a remodel as many of you have said. Cooling, bezels, biometrics, Magic accessories, display etc.
It would make sense to update the iMac Pro next year too.