will you be able to add 3G data when off wifi?

[nj-mac-user]

You're confused about APNs. An APN is basically just a web address that the device resolves to connect to the packet data network. It's the access point to a data network, the rest of which exists.

Have you seen these screenshots before?

That shows you the interface of how you set up the data plans. The iPad will have all the network details, and the payment will be enabled over 3G.

No way Apple would launch without allowing you to do this.

I'm definitely not confused about APN's. If what you're saying is correct then why couldn't just anyone with a sim card connect to at&t's network for free without ever creating an account?

I believe you're confused over APN's with a cellular network. With at&t laptopconnect cards and the ipad most likely will be using the isp.cingular apn. The device needs to have the apn settings (ie. apn/username/password) to connect via that APN provisioned for that account on the network.

This is how a lot of people here tether their iphones... using the wap.cingular APN that's already provisioned with their account because of their iphone plan. No iphone plan? Guess what... no data connectivity because that wap.cingular apn is removed when the plan is removed (when that was still possible that is).

With that said... I do believe at&t will provision two apn's once the account is initially created. One for regular internet connectivity and the other remaining on the account regardless if 3G is active or not, just for activation purposes. But regardless, an account would first need to be created in at&t's system for this to happen.

 

[Pring]

I'm definitely not confused about APN's. If what you're saying is correct then why couldn't just anyone with a sim card connect to at&t's network for free without ever creating an account?

I believe you're confused over APN's with a cellular network. With at&t laptopconnect cards and the ipad most likely will be using the isp.cingular apn. The device needs to have the apn settings (ie. apn/username/password) to connect via that APN provisioned for that account on the network.

This is how a lot of people here tether their iphones... using the wap.cingular APN that's already provisioned with their account because of their iphone plan. No iphone plan? Guess what... no data connectivity because that wap.cingular apn is removed when the plan is removed (when that was still possible that is).

No, that's not true. Most users use the same APN and same username and password.

The APN just lets you connect to the network. The decision on whether you're allowed to DO anything when on the network is made by a AAA (Authentication, Authorisation and Accounting) server. This is keyed off the IMSI (International Mobile Subscriber Identity) which is tied to the SIM card.

In order to actually gain access you need your IMSI to be listed as authorised in the system. If you swap SIM cards between unlocked devices then this is why you can use the service on all of them, it's tied to the IMSI, not the device or even the APN.

So the reason that not anyone with a SIM card can connect to AT&Ts service for free without creating an account is that they have to have their IMSI authorised with AT&T otherwise it just rejects the connection. In order to have your IMSI marked as authorised then yes, you have to have an account with them and you get a username and password from that. That's not the same as the username/password for an APN though.

I've worked in Telecoms on mobile networks for 5 years. I know this stuff

 

[msavwah]

You sign up on the iPad itself.
Same idea as getting a day pass for wifi. The connection is there but limited to the sign up page. Once you sign up it's unlocked.

No need for calling or wifi, you are already able to access the signup page via 3G connection. This was announced at the iPad keynote and it's on the iPad webpage.

 

[emaja]

You sign up on the iPad itself.
Same idea as getting a day pass for wifi. The connection is there but limited to the sign up page. Once you sign up it's unlocked.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't like this. Without this, it might be impossible for some people to connect to 3G. I am sure AT&T wants everyone to have the opportunity to connect without having a hotspot nearby. They want to make it as easy as possible for people to give them money. Any other way would be artificially restricting this.

 

[leesweet]

FWIW, the question is a good one, but the device is quite capable of communicating and deciding that you are authorized to do anything useful or not. I'll take some of that betting if there's any left...

 

[nj-mac-user]

No, that's not true. Most users use the same APN and same username and password.

The APN just lets you connect to the network. The decision on whether you're allowed to DO anything when on the network is made by a AAA (Authentication, Authorisation and Accounting) server. This is keyed off the IMSI (International Mobile Subscriber Identity) which is tied to the SIM card.

In order to actually gain access you need your IMSI to be listed as authorised in the system. If you swap SIM cards between unlocked devices then this is why you can use the service on all of them, it's tied to the IMSI, not the device or even the APN.

So the reason that not anyone with a SIM card can connect to AT&Ts service for free without creating an account is that they have to have their IMSI authorised with AT&T otherwise it just rejects the connection. In order to have your IMSI marked as authorised then yes, you have to have an account with them and you get a username and password from that. That's not the same as the username/password for an APN though.

I've worked in Telecoms on mobile networks for 5 years. I know this stuff

The APN settings will be specific to what APN you are trying to go through. Currently there is no username/password required for wap and isp like there used to be. By default, no APN is assigned to an account unless you add some sort of data feature or a visual voicemail feature for instance which requires data. An APN is not required for anything other than accessing data through the cellular network.

Every user or device is not automatically provisioned with an APN. The ipad for instance will have the APN settings preconfigured in the device, but still needs that APN to be provisioned on an account, which I imagine will be created (an account) the very first time you sign up for the month to month service.

I believe you are misunderstanding the importance of the actual provisioning of the APN with the account to be able to even access data through the cellular network.

 

[nj-mac-user]

You sign up on the iPad itself.
Same idea as getting a day pass for wifi. The connection is there but limited to the sign up page. Once you sign up it's unlocked.

No need for calling or wifi, you are already able to access the signup page via 3G connection. This was announced at the iPad keynote and it's on the iPad webpage.

It's not exactly the same, as the problem is actually having access to the data connection without having an account (with at&t). Every mobile device doesn't automatically have access to data via the network just in case you want to sign up for it in the future. You'd have to call in to first get provisioned properly.

They never mentioned any ability to sign up for 3G for the first time using 3G in the keynote. They should've made this whole process more clear, but would've probably lost a lot of potential buyers if they had I'd imagine.

 

[CarboysDesire]

I am with the crowd that believe a wifi connection is not necessary.

It's the same as being at the airport where the wifi isn't free. You have to connect to be able to pay. Same idea.

 

[Beau10]

It's not exactly the same, as the problem is actually having access to the data connection without having an account (with at&t). Every mobile device doesn't automatically have access to data via the network just in case you want to sign up for it in the future. You'd have to call in to first get provisioned properly.

They never mentioned any ability to sign up for 3G for the first time using 3G in the keynote. They should've made this whole process more clear, but would've probably lost a lot of potential buyers if they had I'd imagine.

The language used on Apple's page strongly implies this is how it will work though - "any time... no need to call customer service". No asterisks.

In the past, there were likely legacy enterprise issues AT&T had to overcome that no longer exist.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/

"Sign up on your iPad.
You can sign up for 3G data service with AT&T at any time — right on your iPad. There’s no need to visit a store or call customer service. Just tap Settings and choose Cellular Data. Then type in your user information, select a plan, and enter your credit card information."

 

[mcdj]

FWIW, the question is a good one

Agree 100%, and I wish this forum had more unusual and unique questions like this one and the ensuing discussions, and far less Twitter type posts like "I just got an iPad!", or flimsy questions from indecisive souls who want us to do their shopping for them...eg "is 16gb enough for me?"

 

[melman101]

The language used on Apple's page strongly implies this is how it will work though - "any time... no need to call customer service". No asterisks.

In the past, there were likely legacy enterprise issues AT&T had to overcome that no longer exist.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/

"Sign up on your iPad.
You can sign up for 3G data service with AT&T at any time — right on your iPad. There’s no need to visit a store or call customer service. Just tap Settings and choose Cellular Data. Then type in your user information, select a plan, and enter your credit card information."

I am not getting a 3G, but I'll play the devil's advocate.

Why does it say this then:
"So if you have a business trip or vacation approaching, just sign up for the month you’ll be traveling and cancel when you get back. "

Why couldn't you just sign up wherever you were? Why wouldn't they say
"Sign up anywhere, anytime ever without a WiFi connection".

But I've been wrong before.

 

[nj-mac-user]

The language used on Apple's page strongly implies this is how it will work though - "any time... no need to call customer service". No asterisks.

In the past, there were likely legacy enterprise issues AT&T had to overcome that no longer exist.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/

"Sign up on your iPad.
You can sign up for 3G data service with AT&T at any time — right on your iPad. There’s no need to visit a store or call customer service. Just tap Settings and choose Cellular Data. Then type in your user information, select a plan, and enter your credit card information."

...Connected to wifi.

I'm just on the side that its not possible (at least for initial sign up) and stating the reasons. Most are probably not aware, but in order to have an account of any type with at&t you will be assigned a mobile number (even with data only devices). I don't think at&t will have millions of mobile numbers already assigned to "pre-accounts" just in case users ever decide to eventually sign up.

If you're familiar with at&t's new Dataconnect Pass (a pre-paid data service), I believe the ipad will work the same way. But even with that, an account needs to first be created online... on a computer that already has an internet connection.

Sure, it sounds like a no-brainer that it'd be just like wifi, but unless you have an understanding of the mobile network and how it works you may just not get it.

 

[leesweet]

Okay, when I get mine Friday, I'll turn off WiFi, and sign up for a month of $15 3G. I want to, anyway, to see how the bandwidth is. I rarely use 3G on my iPhone, but with a small screen, you don't have the opportunities you (will) have with the iPad.

I know 'data' devices (PC Cards, etc.) have 'fake' phone numbers assigned to them, and I see the point about every 3G iPad having a 'phone number' pre-assigned on the chance the owner will want to use 3G. I know a bit about telecom, and it's unlikely they preassigned numbers. There aren't a lot of spare area codes left in the US (to start there) to assign every iPad a number. (Max for one Area code, without counting special cases, is (almost) 10,000,000 numbers.) It *could* be that it assigns you one the first time you ever use 3G.

But we're really speculating out of nothing here. This is the first device that I've ever seen where it has a dedicated data radio that doesn't ever have to be used, and can be used at any time at the owner's discretion. It has to be self-provisioning and self-enabling with only entry of payment information. I want to see how this works (system-wise)!

 

[AcesOverKings]

They want to make it as easy as possible for people to give them money.

Emaja wins.

The statement above is all you need to think about regarding whether this will be possible or not. We all know it's technologically feasible. Do we think Apple and AT&T would intentionally keep our credit card numbers from their billing servers?

Not likely.

 

[Imsuperjp]

from this link, it sounds like you will not need wifi to activate the data plan.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/

Sign up on your iPad.

You can sign up for 3G data service with AT&T at any time — right on your iPad. There’s no need to visit a store or call customer service. Just tap Settings and choose Cellular Data. Then type in your user information, select a plan, and enter your credit card information.

 

[Tom G.]

I checked with AT&T last week about this topic. I was told that you actually have access to 3G all the time, whether or not your on a data plan. However, if you are not on a plan then the only thing you can do is sign up for a plan. Then you can carry on as you please.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[The Gary]

no wifi signup

Not so sure. Yes the APN "settings" are stored on the device, but not the actual APN that would need to be provisioned on the network. Like I said, I can maybe see this being possible if at&t created a new way where once you've already created an account and just want to re-activate later on, but what about first time users who don't even have an account established in at&t's system?

You can make a phone call to 911 without a sim card or service you can sign up for 3g without wifi. come on guys it's been that way for 10 years or more.

 

[tripjammer]

I am with the crowd that believe a wifi connection is not necessary.

It's the same as being at the airport where the wifi isn't free. You have to connect to be able to pay. Same idea.

A wifi connection is not necessary. I will test this out friday...

 

[Beau10]

...Connected to wifi.

I'm just on the side that its not possible (at least for initial sign up) and stating the reasons.
.

One more time "In the past, there were likely legacy enterprise issues AT&T had to overcome that no longer exist."

There are no technical limitations to doing this other than policy and for AT&T to upgrade their infrastructure to support that policy. This is an enterprise issue that with enough financial incentive they can overcome. If it costs them $xxM to upgrade their system to support this change, selling aircards may not pencil out. But iPads surely will.

 

[nj-mac-user]

One more time "In the past, there were likely legacy enterprise issues AT&T had to overcome that no longer exist."

There are no technical limitations to doing this other than policy and for AT&T to upgrade their infrastructure to support that policy. This is an enterprise issue that with enough financial incentive they can overcome. If it costs them $xxM to upgrade their system to support this change, selling aircards may not pencil out. But iPads surely will.

And one more time, "unless you have an understanding of the mobile network and how it works you may just not get it."

We shall see on Friday

 

[me2000]

Of course you'll be able to sign up for 3G without WiFi. That's the whole point!

 

[nj-mac-user]

Of course you'll be able to sign up for 3G without WiFi. That's the whole point!

Lol!! Like "Of course the browser will support flash, that's the whole point!" or "Of course you'll be able to multitask, that's the whole point!"... It sounds good and so "simple", but this thread brings up a good point that nobody really thought about.

 

[patp]

Has anyone confirmed this with Apple?

I thought I read somewhere that you would to be connected to the Internet to turn the account on. Then once the 3G connection is established your good to go.

Again I could be wrong and so could everyone else on this thread. Let's confirm first with Apple before we litter Google with a bunch of wrong answers.

 

[mokeiko]

When I purchased my Sony PRS-900 Daily Edition reader, it came with a AT&T sim card installed. This makes it possible to browse the Sony Ebook Library store to purchase and download books. If you subscribed to any periodicals, they will download automatically every day, Sort of how the Kindle and Amazon. There are no fees or monthly costs to use this service and 3G is either active or standby mode (for better battery life) ready when you need it.

The iPad may have something similar and only allow connections to pay for data connection. Once you pay, AT&T servers will allow full access to the internet depending on what service you paid for. So weather or not you pay for access, the iPad sim will always be active as long as you have 3G service.

This is just my guess so take it with a grain of salt. We'll know for sure by Friday.

mokeiko

 

[patp]

Please i mean no offense to anyone here, but can we stop the speculation and wait until someone actually confirms with some solid info?

Again we're doing nobody any good if we're all wrong.

Not trying to stir up trouble just want to keep the info factual and not speculative.