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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
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Sooner or later, really good ARM chips for PC market will come.
But I highly doubt MS will be ready for it. Windows 10X will be ready, but will users accept OS that can't do basic apps + steam? Maybe developers will support it, but it will take way too long imho.

MS will be in trouble, that's obvious. Linux is ARM ready, Mac OS is already on ARM. MS needs to step up their game, and they need to do it fast. I like the design of Windows 10X. I like ditching old, legacy and bloated code. MS should have done that years ago, and they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

Even though I don't use Windows, I really hope MS will pull it off. Otherwise we will have 1000 distros of Ubuntu + MacOS. We as consumers need competition, so I hope that MS manage to make great OS that works on ARM.
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,341
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Over here
Could be a barrier of entry for corporate customers. I personally won't upgrade unless win32 is supported. And I suspect it will take more than several years (10+ imo) and some mis-steps before Microsoft realizes it needs to support legacy applications.

It will absolutely be a barrier for corporate customers but that does not appear to be the day 1 target customer for 10X based on what I am reading.

Day 1 it really appears to be for the average consumer or education who has basic needs, office, browsing and the like, not power users. Pretty much the average macOS user.

They have said Win32 support will come, later. It's not going to take 10 years, it can be done now, it will be run in a container of some sort. But given the $$$'s Corporates provide to Microsoft I would expect they will force a different view on MS.

I can see W10 in its current form being maintained for Corporates whilst W10X becomes the consumer version without Win32 or at least to support it for a time with the ultimate goal to move away from it.

I don't know, again, no expert just what I am picking up as I read.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
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Gotta be in it to win it
Sooner or later, really good ARM chips for PC market will come.
But I highly doubt MS will be ready for it. Windows 10X will be ready, but will users accept OS that can't do basic apps + steam? Maybe developers will support it, but it will take way too long imho.

MS will be in trouble, that's obvious. Linux is ARM ready, Mac OS is already on ARM. MS needs to step up their game, and they need to do it fast. I like the design of Windows 10X. I like ditching old, legacy and bloated code. MS should have done that years ago, and they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

Even though I don't use Windows, I really hope MS will pull it off. Otherwise we will have 1000 distros of Ubuntu + MacOS. We as consumers need competition, so I hope that MS manage to make great OS that works on ARM.
Why will MS be in trouble? Linux is tiny percentage of the overall market, so whether it is arm ready is not relevant to the PC market.

Mac OS has no bearing on the Windows market. It's unlikely I (and maybe many others) will ever be able to do the work/games I/they want on MAC OS. Because you like ditching legacy code, doesn't mean I want to as the bloated, legacy code has useful functionality. MS couldn't force any hand due to the huge customer installation base in the corporate sector.

For MS to make a dent on arm, imo, people (at least me) won't buy an arm computer unless I can install any windows software in my library on said arm computer and it runs at least as well as on my intel desktop.
 

IowaLynn

macrumors 68020
Feb 22, 2015
2,145
589
Look at how slow deliberate and measured Apple was in moving to a 64-bit system and dropped 32-bit apps and libraries. Google is doing somewhat the same only slower, with a billion it so more users.

I was intrigued with Windows 8.1 RT and voted with my wallet.

Changes in leadership are often needed and both Microsoft and Intel have recently seen the need and done so. The partnership if MS with Samsung has grown in recent years. And if it wasn't for lucrative deal from Intel it looked like the first Surface Go was in serious talks with Qualcomm, and future chips designed for laptops - which easily need two years plus lead time.

Apple started "iOS -ification" of even Mac OS X even bringing teams from iOS to take on OS X at times. All spread out over ten year span. And building on iPhone and iPad work. Small changes, baby steps, often seeming too slow.

I know Apple had a parallel x86 code base for Mac OS for probably years before we saw an Intel based Mac and OS X come in two flavors - PPC and Intel x86 DVDs one year.

Microsoft Store pretty much needs to include Android apps in today's world.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,212
Gotta be in it to win it
Look at how slow deliberate and measured Apple was in moving to a 64-bit system and dropped 32-bit apps and libraries. Google is doing somewhat the same only slower, with a billion it so more users.
[...]
Can't compare Apple and MS, at least where ios is concerned. Due to the closed nature of ios, Apple was able to notify the devs about the impending change. A dev either updated their code or not.

Compared to the wintel world. I myself have loads of programs/utilities that I use, some of which probably will never work on arm.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
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Why will MS be in trouble? Linux is tiny percentage of the overall market, so whether it is arm ready is not relevant to the PC market.

I'm not saying that Win10 will magically disappear and be crushed by various linux distros and Mac OS. Not at all.
But over time it will be. Imagine some kid nowdays, if MS doesn't respond fast to Apple, kid is gonna be using MacOS more and more. More power and way more battery life.

As time progresses, more kids will use Mac OS. Sooner or later more games will also come to Mac OS. Gamedevs will see that, and they will focus on Mac OS more and more.

One thing leads to another.

This is the way MS made Windows so famous in the first place. Now if MS doesn't respond, it's gonna happen to them as well. Only Linux and Mac OS will take over. If MS doesn't respond, Linux will become more popular. There will always be need for a cheap PC. Apple won't provide that.

Other OEMs need an OS. If MS can't deliver, well, someone else can.
 
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The_Interloper

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2016
686
1,413
Imagine some kid nowdays, if MS doesn't respond fast to Apple, kid is gonna be using MacOS more and more. More power and way more battery life.
Macs are never going to capture the mass market, no matter how good they are, due to their price point. The price of admission starts at £1k (MBAir) - that's simply too much for the majority of people and a significant barrier to entry.

A decent Windows ultrabook can easily be had on sale around the £500-600 mark; £700-800 gets you into the realm of beefier specs and gaming laptops with discrete Nvidia graphics, usually with the ability to upgrade both RAM and SSDs.

This is where Apple's market weakness lies; they offer nothing in the midrange. It's where most savvy sales occur. Nobody wants a £300 piece of junk but £1k+ for 8Gb RAM and a 256Gb SSD is too much for many (with the £1300 MBPro completely out of the question).

Apple will continue to own the premium sector and make tons of money for investors. But they will always struggle to move the needle on Mac market share both to corporates and consumers at prices that are simply financially inaccessible to most.
 

The_Interloper

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2016
686
1,413
Only Linux and Mac OS will take over. If MS doesn't respond, Linux will become more popular.
Linux will NEVER become popular with the general public. It's hell to use as an everyday OS; the average person would be baffled even trying to set up a printer and it has near-zero support for mainstream programs (MS Office, Adobe suite etc).
 

c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
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Macs are never going to capture the mass market, no matter how good they are, due to their price point. The price of admission starts at £1k (MBAir) - that's simply too much for the majority of people and a significant barrier to entry.

I agree completely. That's why I wrote Apple won't do budget devices, other OEMs will, but they need an OS.

A decent Windows ultrabook can easily be had on sale around the £500-600 mark; £700-800 gets you into the realm of beefier specs and gaming laptops with discrete Nvidia graphics, usually with the ability to upgrade both RAM and SSDs.

Yes. But ARM is taking over. Apple is already beating x86 with their 1st gen product. That shocked me. You can look at my old posts. I've expected that Apple will have a good CPU for start, but nothing to compete with x86, and that it will take them a lot of time to switch to completely new architecture. I was completely wrong.

With those 500-600 devices, besides noise and battery life, you're ok today. But what happens when other OEMs get a great ARM CPU that can compete with AS, but Windows isn't ready for it?

This is where Apple's market weakness lies; they offer nothing in the midrange. It's where most savvy sales occur. Nobody wants a £300 piece of junk but £1k+ for 8Gb RAM and a 256Gb SSD is too much for many (with the £1300 MBPro completely out of the question).

I won't argue with that, because we are on the same page completely.
Only one problem atm. Apple never was affordable, and they never will be. But in the high range, if one doesn't really need Windows and x86 now, why would anyone purchase Dell XPS 13 over MBA for example?

MBA crushes it in every possible way.
Now imagine a 500$ laptop with some Qualcomm chip that does the same. Would you purchase something like Dell XPS or X1 carbon with x86?

Apple will continue to own the premium sector and make tons of money for investors. But they will always struggle to move the needle on Mac market share both to corporates and consumers at prices that are simply financially inaccessible to most.

Once again, I agree. But I would like to add that Apple doesn't care about marketshare. At all. They care about profits, and they probably make more profits on macs than Dell does with their XPS lineup.

Linux will NEVER become popular with the general public. It's hell to use as an everyday OS; the average person would be baffled even trying to set up a printer and it has near-zero support for mainstream programs (MS Office, Adobe suite etc).

That's funny. I've removed my moms Windows install since it always had some issues. I've installed Ubuntu, and shes using it like a champ. No issues, nothing to complain about. And believe me, she's not a tech person at all. So explain it to me why Linux is so frightening for average person?

As far as printers go, indeed, Linux has issues there.
But if MS fails with Windows on ARM, OEMs won't have a choice besides Linux. Drivers for printers will be there in a instant. And I do agree on apps part as well. But then again, if OEMs don't have a choice and are forced to use linux, there won't be a choice for Adobe and similar companies as well.

I feel like we are not on the same page (I don't mean just you, but most people here).
I'm not saying windows is doomed, linux is taking over.

I'm just saying there is a great chance of that happening if MS doesn't move fast. If you asked me about this a few months ago, I would say Linux is great, but it will never gain desktop marketshare. Well, funny enough, I've changed my mind thanks to AS.

Now consider this. If Dell/Lenovo/HP have a great ARM CPU on their hands, and they want it in their devices to compete with Apple, but they can't because they don't have an OS... What will they do? Wait a few more years for MS to finally finish some product and hope that it doesn't fail like others?

Or they will just choose random linux distro and try to do something themselves?

If I was a CEO of any OEM today, I would be very worried and feeling helpless.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
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Gotta be in it to win it
I'm not saying that Win10 will magically disappear and be crushed by various linux distros and Mac OS. Not at all.
But over time it will be. Imagine some kid nowdays, if MS doesn't respond fast to Apple, kid is gonna be using MacOS more and more. More power and way more battery life.

As time progresses, more kids will use Mac OS. Sooner or later more games will also come to Mac OS. Gamedevs will see that, and they will focus on Mac OS more and more.

One thing leads to another.

This is the way MS made Windows so famous in the first place. Now if MS doesn't respond, it's gonna happen to them as well. Only Linux and Mac OS will take over. If MS doesn't respond, Linux will become more popular. There will always be need for a cheap PC. Apple won't provide that.

Other OEMs need an OS. If MS can't deliver, well, someone else can.
I think Microsoft is trying to make windows lighter. They still need to support their cash cow, which is the corporate world. Additionally if other vendors have their own version of arm and their own o/s there will be a very fractured market which isn't good for anybody and MS will just win by default.

As far as Mac OS, I don't know where that will go in terms or market penetration. Not sure anybody really knows at this point.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
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Gotta be in it to win it
Yes. But ARM is taking over. Apple is already beating x86 with their 1st gen product.
Arm is not taking over. Wintel is still a huge juggernaut. Maybe emulation products will let some Windows x86 binaries be run on M1, but it's not the same until it runs identically or better than on an intel chip. Running, for example, AAA game titles at 100+fps is still a pipe dream.
 
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AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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Could be a barrier of entry for corporate customers. I personally won't upgrade unless win32 is supported. And I suspect it will take more than several years (10+ imo) and some mis-steps before Microsoft realizes it needs to support legacy applications.

That Apple did it is one thing, that Microsoft will try to do it for core infrastructure applications is another. Gotta do what your customers want.
Regular Windows 10 will exist alongside Windows 10X. Windows 10X is targeted towards average people who like the simplicity of Chrome OS.
Because Windows 10X is a new operating system, it will not be released as an update for existing Windows 10 PCs. Users won't be able to install Windows 10X on a device that didn't come with Windows 10X to begin with. There won't be any official ISO media and you won't be able to buy Windows 10X on its own to install on your existing device. It's for new PCs only.
As for when win32 support will arrive, I don't think it'll take ten years. Chrome OS doesnt even support traditional applications, yet it excels in the education market. Microsoft should've called Windows 10X "Edge OS" or something like that. We need Edgebooks, Edgeboxes, Edgebases, Edgebits! ;)
Windows 10X is a new version of Windows that has been built from the ground up for new PCs, and will begin shipping on hardware in 2021. It's built on top of a new modern version of Windows called 'Windows Core OS' that guts legacy components and features in favor of contemporary user experiences and enhanced security.


This means everything from the Windows Shell to the underlying OS has been rebuilt with modern technologies. As a result, Windows 10X does not support legacy Win32 applications at launch. Windows 10X PCs in 2021 will be able to run Microsoft Edge, UWP, and web apps.


Legacy Win32 application support will arrive at a later date, however. When it does, Win32 applications will run in a secure container by default, meaning those legacy applications cannot affect system performance and battery life when closed. Windows 10X is a much more secure and stable OS as a result of this, as there's no opportunity for legacy apps to cause bitrot.
Apple should come out with their own Chrome OS/Windows 10X competitor.
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
I'm not saying that Win10 will magically disappear and be crushed by various linux distros and Mac OS. Not at all.
But over time it will be. Imagine some kid nowdays, if MS doesn't respond fast to Apple, kid is gonna be using MacOS more and more. More power and way more battery life.

As time progresses, more kids will use Mac OS. Sooner or later more games will also come to Mac OS. Gamedevs will see that, and they will focus on Mac OS more and more.

One thing leads to another.

This is the way MS made Windows so famous in the first place. Now if MS doesn't respond, it's gonna happen to them as well. Only Linux and Mac OS will take over. If MS doesn't respond, Linux will become more popular. There will always be need for a cheap PC. Apple won't provide that.

Other OEMs need an OS. If MS can't deliver, well, someone else can.
Rather than Macs and Linux, the real threat to Windows I can see is from chrome books and iPads, most don’t need a ‘full’ computer any more and an iPad or chrome book can easily compete in the price of a cheap or middle of the road Windows computer. A lot of those ‘next billion’ in developing countries even get on with just a basic smartphone. So are lost to Microsoft who were very complacent with that market so have lost out there.

where the Mac does come in is taking the cream off what’s left of the PC market, leaving Windows OEMs increasingly struggling to stay profitable from shrinking volume sales and intense competition from Apple on premium computers. If Windows gets whittled down to just gamers and work computers Microsoft are left with a rapidly dwindling mind share and reliant on the whims of others allowing their services to piggyback on their platforms.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
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As far as Mac OS, I don't know where that will go in terms or market penetration. Not sure anybody really knows at this point.

No one knows where Mac OS will end up. But I highly doubt Apple can gain a lot of marketshare, because Apple isn't about marketshare.

Arm is not taking over. Wintel is still a huge juggernaut.

Indeed, Intel is a juggernaut. And those move slowly and clunky.
But ARM is taking over. People buy more laptops than they do desktops. And even first gen AS is better than anything Intel or AMD can offer. And it's gonna get way worse for x86.

Running, for example, AAA game titles at 100+fps is still a pipe dream.

Indeed. But isn't it the same on Intel macs anyway?
 

LeeW

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Feb 5, 2017
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because Apple isn't about marketshare.

Apple certainly is about market share and always have been, just another myth. They are just not about market share at any cost which caps what they can achieve. But that is changing more in the iPhone and iPad area with cheaper than usual options to increase market share given the shift in focus to services.

Indeed. But isn't it the same on Intel macs anyway?

Nobody (diehard Apple excepted) that is a gamer would buy a Mac for the purpose of gaming, that is not going to change. Cost to spec ratio is ridiculous for that purpose. Those that game on a Mac are doing it as their only option and make do with what they can get out of it, or they have a PC for that purpose.

That's funny. I've removed my moms Windows install since it always had some issues. I've installed Ubuntu, and shes using it like a champ. No issues, nothing to complain about. And believe me, she's not a tech person at all. So explain it to me why Linux is so frightening for average person?

Not so frightening when it's your son taking responsibility for it and if anything goes wrong he will deal with it, all you do is use it, not manage it. The average user will not cope with Linux for many reasons.

I use Linux daily in a server environment for 20 years, wouldn't install as a desktop OS. It remains an enthusiast's OS. Some have tried to bring it to laptops, Dell, for example, didn't catch on, even they admitted returns were high on the devices as people couldn't deal with Linux.

ARM is not taking over, it's another option that is certainly a good one, but, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Wintel segment, things can be improved as with anything. If Intel can do something now they have been given a reality check by Apple and their M series chips that would be great.

Intel could bring out something (Amber Lake) for laptops that delivers performance and battery life for example, that would be great. That aside, ARM for Apple is understandable and progressive for them. For everyone else, not so much.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
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ARM is not taking over, it's another option that is certainly a good one, but, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Wintel segment, things can be improved as with anything. If Intel can do something now they have been given a reality check by Apple and their M series chips that would be great.

I can't prove to you that ARM is taking over. All I'm doing here is expressing my own opinion. I could be wrong of course. But x86 simply can't compete with ARM on power per watt. They are miles apart. Intel atm can't even compete with AMD on x86 front.

Intel could bring out something (Amber Lake) for laptops that delivers performance and battery life for example, that would be great. That aside, ARM for Apple is understandable and progressive for them. For everyone else, not so much.

I agree. Intel can really improve their CPU, but only because they have been asleep for 10 years or so. They are really behind AMD and Apple atm. But even if they improve it drastically, do you really believe they can produce a chip that will be powerful, but energy efficient? I wouldn't put a single dollar on that bet personally :)

P.S.
On Linux part, I disagree completely with your statement.
For instance, who do you think maintained my mothers PC while it was on Windows? She certainly didn't. And it did need a lot of maintenance. More than the current linux distro. Actually, only thing I did with current distro is make it look almost completely like Windows. After that, I haven't touched it in months. But we can agree to disagree in this matter :)
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Isn't the advantage of ARM and Apple Silicon mainly based on the manufacturing process (5nm)? AMDs Ryzen CPUs do much better than Intel's offering, too.

Pretty impressive that the chip giant Intel couldn't keep up.


BTW: I think a nicely set up Linux is a much better experience than Windows 10. BUT, it also leaves a lot to be desired when you try to use more than the included software. MacOS is still king imo.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,212
Gotta be in it to win it
I can't prove to you that ARM is taking over. All I'm doing here is expressing my own opinion. I could be wrong of course. But x86 simply can't compete with ARM on power per watt. They are miles apart. Intel atm can't even compete with AMD on x86 front.



I agree. Intel can really improve their CPU, but only because they have been asleep for 10 years or so. They are really behind AMD and Apple atm. But even if they improve it drastically, do you really believe they can produce a chip that will be powerful, but energy efficient? I wouldn't put a single dollar on that bet personally :)

P.S.
On Linux part, I disagree completely with your statement.
For instance, who do you think maintained my mothers PC while it was on Windows? She certainly didn't. And it did need a lot of maintenance. More than the current linux distro. Actually, only thing I did with current distro is make it look almost completely like Windows. After that, I haven't touched it in months. But we can agree to disagree in this matter :)
What I am trying to convey, is when I buy a computer, that computer has to do what I want. I don't care about the chip inside, but if the computer can't meet my requirements I won't buy it. People should be savvy enough in 2021 to know there are different types of computers. (see ipad: what's a computer)

If I am replacing my computer (x86) with another and I have to buy $5,000 worth of new software (arm), I may think twice about it. If I am replacing my computer (x86) and every software title I own runs seamlessly on the new computer (arm) that's a completely different story.

Power per watt is irrelevant to me, if the computer can't run my software that way I need it to be run.

(And Linux is a great option with a tech support person nearby. Don't get me wrong I run ubuntu, and I'm grateful for open source, but as a daily driver there are two many compromises for my professional life)
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
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Pretty impressive that the chip giant Intel couldn't keep up.
From what I've stumbled upon from my travels, it appears one factor for Intel's failure is the actual PC business itself and how its setup. That is the typical Pc maker, like dell, or HP operate on razer thin margins. They don't want Intel spending a lot of R&D to create a super fast (but expensive) CPU. Apple upset the apple cart so to speak because they wanted performance and they had the money and means to develop something themselves. Even MS with their ARM based system relied on a company that was more interested in how their CPUs operated in a phone, so there was little actual improvements that would aid an ARM based PC.
 

LeeW

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Feb 5, 2017
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I can't prove to you that ARM is taking over. All I'm doing here is expressing my own opinion. I could be wrong of course. But x86 simply can't compete with ARM on power per watt. They are miles apart. Intel atm can't even compete with AMD on x86 front.

Agreed on PPW, but then we use 'who is best' as an increasingly more important driver.

For me personally, intel can be miles apart from AMD on that front but does intel deliver what I need and more? The answer to that would be yes despite their issues. I don't need the fastest, best available, neither do most in reality.

For instance, who do you think maintained my mothers PC while it was on Windows? She certainly didn't. And it did need a lot of maintenance. More than the current linux distro. Actually, only thing I did with current distro is make it look almost completely like Windows. After that, I haven't touched it in months. But we can agree to disagree in this matter

Totally get it, when it works, it works and mileage varies. For example, a friend uses Linux, pretty much smooth sailing. At Christmas, he bought a new keyboard with a backlight as his sight is not the best. When he pressed the space bar it turned the backlight off, press it again, turned the backlight on.

The trouble even I had trying to change the configuration to make it work correctly with Ubuntu was a real nightmare. One example of truthfully hundreds I could tell you from years gone by. Might be okay for some, probably better for most when used on a laptop than a desktop.

But ultimately working in an industry where everyone uses Linux for server tasks and has been their job for many years/decades, all but a few would laugh at Linux as a desktop OS. Most use macOS as it's pretty much identical to Linux for server people like us but without all the hassles of Linux.
 

c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
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What I am trying to convey, is when I buy a computer, that computer has to do what I want. I don't care about the chip inside, but if the computer can't meet my requirements I won't buy it. People should be savvy enough in 2021 to know there are different types of computers. (see ipad: what's a computer)

If I am replacing my computer (x86) with another and I have to buy $5,000 worth of new software (arm), I may think twice about it. If I am replacing my computer (x86) and every software title I own runs seamlessly on the new computer (arm) that's a completely different story.

Power per watt is irrelevant to me, if the computer can't run my software that way I need it to be run.

(And Linux is a great option with a tech support person nearby. Don't get me wrong I run ubuntu, and I'm grateful for open source, but as a daily driver there are two many compromises for my professional life)

We agree. Completely. I won't abandon my current PC for AS, even though I could. Everything I need already works on M1.

Maybe I'm bad at explaining myself, since english isn't my native language?
I'm not predicting that x86 and/or windows will die in a year or two. What I'm predicting is that without adequate response from MS, Windows will die eventually. How long will it take? I have no idea.

And Linux isn't for everyone. Many apps aren't there. Yet.
But if MS doesn't produce in a few years, I can easily see OEMs switching to Linux just because they won't have any other choice. And when OEMs switch, so will Adobe and other software makers as well.

Isn't the advantage of ARM and Apple Silicon mainly based on the manufacturing process (5nm)? AMDs Ryzen CPUs do much better than Intel's offering, too.

Yes. And no.
It's CISC vs RISC mostly. And it seems that ARMs way of doing things is drastically better for the future. Even now.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
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Seems to me Intel is fine because there are many windows users or just people who need a computer that wont switch to apple.
these people dont care or even know what processor is running their computer.
or even what a processor does.
we had to go to a staples store and these people purchased a new HP laptop, the bloatware 2000
and the extra service and extended warrantee.
such a shame people get suckered into this trap.
 

LeeW

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Feb 5, 2017
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these people dont care or even know what processor is running their computer.
or even what a processor does.

Indeed, but the same applies to Apple. The M1 even. Very few I know outside of developer circles even knew what the M1 was, most thought it was another new phone.

So many on this forum certainly seem to think because you use Apple you know what Apple is doing, users don't, just like most PC/Windows users. Simply as they don't care, it's a device they use that suits them, nothing more.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
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Indeed, but the same applies to Apple. The M1 even. Very few I know outside of developer circles even knew what the M1 was, most thought it was another new phone.

So many on this forum certainly seem to think because you use Apple you know what Apple is doing, users don't, just like most PC/Windows users. Simply as they don't care, it's a device they use that suits them, nothing more.

Most people don't know what CPU & GPU their device uses. I agree.
But what people do know is battery life, and how fast their device 'feels'.

Now we have AS macs. Imagine other devices with powerful ARM CPUs that aren't macs.
A student that uses google office won't care what CPU he or she has. But they will care about battery life. And that student will one day be in workforce, he will want to use a device that hes familiar with.

Windows didn't become popular over night. In my country at least 98% of people use windows. But most of us used pirated versions of windows, photoshop, cracked games, etc., in our youth. MS never really tried to stop piracy. Neither did Adobe. And there is a reason for that. Most of people stayed on Windows. And Photoshop.

Same route can be taken to bring something else to popularity.
Now, many of us won't change our device because Apple has some great chip. I for one won't. But younger generation will. They will get unmatched battery life with a device that syncs with their phone 'magically'.

Others will want the same thing, but not at apple prices. Now, will MS offer them what they want?
 
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